to install a soild core door?
I own a Maid Cleaning business. The homeowner has those dohickies that stop the door handle from striking the wall. The door is hollow core and my employees pushed the door (actually 2 doors) and the dohickie has pierced the door’s skin. The homeowner scheduled replacement by the HD and they want $400 to install 2 solid core doors.
I am a fairly accomplished woodworker (see Hal Taylor Rocker thread over on Knots Galleries)
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
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Replies
Womble,
not so difficult...as a diy'er I just hung a solid core french door in an existing door frame/jamb.
Lowes and HD both sell inexpnsive kits for mortising the hinges and cutting out the handle, etc...yo just have to take your time, and make sure the jamb is reasonably square.
or, maybe I just got lucky as there were few issues.
Does teh homeowner want you to pay for it? Curious.
Also curious as to what the HECK your help was doing in their. Playing a bit rough? If you know what I'm say'n?
Whoah... hang on a second... if your employee damaged the property then you're on the hook for repairs, but shouldn't that be for the same as the damaged item? How much does HD want to hang a hollow core door?
The type of dohickie that prevents the door handle hitting the wall is not suitable for hollowcore doors coz it punctures the skin! The homeowner says my employees did it but other doors in the house are also punctured. They have 3 kids.
The deal was I would pay half coz the dohickie is not suitable. I was expecting a $50 expense for a door and assumed (know what that does) that the HO would install it.
HD want $368 to install 2 doors.
I think ZooGuy was asking why you're "on the hook" for replacing the hollow-core doors with solid-core doors? I can understand the HO wanting to upgrade to a better quality door, but your liability for the damage your employees allegedly caused should be only for replacement of the existing door(s) with a like product (i.e. a hollow-core door).If the HO wants to upgrade the doors, then you should only be responsible for paying for the cost of the hollow-core doors and hollow-core door installation, not solid-core and solid-core installation.You need to find out how much HD charges for 2 HC doors, installed. That's your liability. Everything else is up to the HO.
The HO is going to pay for the solid core doors and I am (based on the results of this fantastic forum) going to do the install myself!
Wrong answer. If the other doors in the house have the same damage, sounds like they are asking you to pay for somehting their kids may have done. And if the door stop had been installed properly, the doors would not be damaged. Even though the skin is thin and vunerable, there's an internal frame around the perimeter of the door that is solid wood (or solid mdf, but still not easily punctured).
"IF" you get caught on this one, insist that the HO get a price from HD to install identical doors to match existing, then agree to pay half of that. The cost of the solid doors should not even be part of the discussion.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Did you workers actually cause the the damage. This sounds a bit hinkey to me. Other doors with similar damage? I would tell em to take a hike. If you havent hung doors before the results are probably going to be less than perfect and they seem to want improvements on your dime. Dont do it.
ACtually the whole deal is weird. Those dohickies are ususally screwed to teh baseboard and the door hits them very low at a point where there is solid material inside the door.
But whatever.
There's a half dozen different kinds of doorstops. you are thinking of a different kind of duekicky
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Piffin, even those stops which are place on teh door hinge won't push against eh door veneer at a point not backed up by teh solid frame.
Then there are teh door knob stops. NO problem there either.
What other stop if properly installed could cause a problem? You seem to imply I missed a stop.
Those dohickies are ususally screwed to teh baseboard and the door hits them
I've always gotten a lot more positive customer feedback by installing a spring stop on the door, rather than on the base. (Which means the stop is in the solid part of the door no matter what.) Customers all seem to like not whacking into the stop while vacuuming/sweeping the floors.
Now, the hook-over-the-hinge pin stops can be problematic, as they can mash the casing in places where there's jsut no good support (that's assuming that you don't get stuck with the potmetal ones that bend like putty). Alas, there are times when that's the only kind of stop that's practical--that's life.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The hinge deallies are not a good idea with people wiht no common sense either. You need to be aware that they are there!! You need to know that the leverage on that puppy is HUGE! You have 3 foot lever arm pushing on a 1 1/2 inche stop. They work fine if you occassional push door a bit, a bit! over zelously.
Teh spring stop of which you speak? Is that a spring on the door? I think I would like that less than one on the door. I agree, I don't like the vacumming problme with the baseboard stop, but the ones on the door would be more likely to be consently in the way. Just my way of thinking.
Is that a spring on the door? I think I would like that less than one on the door.
Can be. I, personally, think the non-spring stops are more elegant. They can be less forgiving in any sort of contact (vacuum, toes, kid's toys, etc.), but they (seem) to be less prone to being bent into uselessness.
Now, sometimes, the trick of putting the stop on the door instead of the wall, is not to always put the stop all the way out on the strike side of the door.
And, of course, a bunch of this all revolves on whether or not the door is normally closed versus normally open, too. If it's normally closed, that stop kind of just sticks out of the baseboard all by its lonesome.
Given that dinky 1/2-5/8" worth of thread on the stop, putting it all in a door frame just seems more secure than only the baseboard thickness. But, that's me--others differ.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"Those dohickies are ususally screwed to teh baseboard and the door hits them very low at a point where there is solid material inside the door."
I think they're most often installed wherever it is convenient to put them by whoever happens to be installing them.
It's not difficult at all. Certainly not for an accomplished woodworker. I think the hardest part is locating the old hinge leaves on the new door in exactly the same places as they were on the old door. I do this by lining up the the doors along the hinge side and using a square to transfer marks from the old the the new. I also mark the knob location at the same time.
It may be necessary to trim the door width and/or height, but the old door serves as a good template for this also.
You might be able to find a carpenter willing to do it for less, especially if the job is to install without finishing, but I don't think it will be easy.
-Don
Ah ha.
My plan WAS to use the old door as a template and rout the new to size/shape with a template bit and a router. Line up the doors sa you suggest and rout out the mortise. I am on the right track.
Will I need a hole saw for the handle, or will the door be pre-drilled, or does it depend?
Will I need a hole saw for the handle, or will the door be pre-drilled, or does it depend?
Plan on drilling for the lockset yourself. The chances of the pre-bored holes being where you want them is pretty slim. Remember, you don't need to move the strike plate.
Get yourself one of these kits. It's not absolutely necessary, but it makes life easier and it's cheap at about $30.00
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I read what Piffin had to say (http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=74198.12) and it's a good point. A few long screws though the hinge plate and into to stud would be good insurance. something else to consider is that hollow core doors usually have 2 hinges while solid doors have 3. I've hung solid doors on 2 hinges and it worked just fine, but maybe I got lucky.
-Don
Edited 5/25/2006 5:32 pm ET by DonCanDo
I won't get into the thinfg about how much of thiws is your liability - personally I don't think anything, but bravo for being a stand up person and taking good care of your customers - abusive or not.
I'm here to chase a different rabbit.
a lot of ionterior hollow doors are installed to very cheap jambs, sometimes accordians, sometimes finger jointed. And the carpenters who install them new are often paid by the door so they take little time tryiong to be sure everything is tight and right. Some of them don't even use shims and rely 100% on the little 15 gauge nails in the edge of the casing to hold the jamb in place. Additionally, the hinges are generally the three dollar variety.
So when you go to install a door that weighs about 4 or 5 times as much, you have very good odds that in a weeek or so, they wil have deformed the jamb, torn nails loose, and be sagging on the hinges and have possibly bent the hinges.
if you are the one who did the installation, now you have real liability. Myself, the only way ( unless I studied the existing personally and was certain that the existing jambs were quality material and installation) I would hang solid core doors is with new jambs
So now you are getting into staining or paining too.
how many days ddo you want to spend in this house full of ill-behaved kids and parents who might be cheats? it won't be fun.
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Are the existing HC doors painted?
If so:
bondo, sand, prime & paint one side.
Your liability is then DONE.
Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
hell ... how hard can it be?
Let us know ...
it's easy for me ... but I've hung more than one door in my life.
hanging doors to near perfection is one of the most underated/underappreciated skills that ain't so easy to learn.
Not that it's that difficult ... just that I've seen more than one helper and more than one home owner struggle for days before giving up.
and like Pif said ... solid core ... slab ... into existing opening ...
doesn't make the task any easier.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I will report back on the results. I am doing the install on Tuesday.
The HO are actually very pleasant.
I am concerned about solid core in hollow core jamb. I will take big screws!
have some shims handy and don't be shy about popping the existing casing (for reuse) to add some shimmage if the original install skipped this step.
some hollow core's are installed just by nailing thru the casing of a prehung unit.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
What Piffin said here 74198.12 , and what Jeff Buck said right before me, No use me retyping it!
I've seen your work over at knots, your not going to have any problem with the doors.
Do what Pif and Buck advised and you'll be fine.
Doug
Unless you're trying to build customer goodwill, tell them that you'll cover replacement of hollow core doors only.
Around here, HD sells prehung hollow core doors for around $50 and installation (including new casing and painting) would probably run $150 - $200 more. If they want to upgrade the doors, anything over that should be on them.
did we get this door hung yet?
so how hard was it ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I dunno, but I remember a lot of time spent as a very young child, playing with those springy thingies, they make lovely music, I mean noise....who would want to take that away from a child?
I was supposed to hang them yesterday. Borrowed my wife's truck, loaded up sawhorses, tools and set off to my office. About 3/4 of the way to my office I had a funny feeling that I had forgotten the collet wrench for the router.
Guess what - I had.
I have them now and will hang them in about 2 hours time.
In the long run......you'd be better off to pay and walk away.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
You may be right. But, I am actually looking forward to the challenge. I will inform the homeowners that hanging solid core in place of hollow core is at their risk.
Good luck on whatever course you choose.
Let us know how it comes out though.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
Solid vs hollow at their own risk? That does not make any sense.
You hang one you can hang the other.
Did we ever established whether any of this was your fault?
Who is going to finish the doors? Stain, top coat, sanding . . .
Ok. So here is the latest.
BTW, DoRight, apparently there can be a difference between hollow and solid door hanging. Please see earlier comments in this thread.
HD came out and measured for the doors in March. I picked up the doors from the HD this morning and drove to the customer's home. I went in to check the doors were correct ad can you guess what.......
The doors were the wrong size! HD measured 26 x 78 - actually needed 27.75 x 80
HD measured 28 x 78 - actually needed 29.75 x 80. Since these were custom doors we have ordered the exact width.
Me and the homeowner (who is beautiful, charming and funny) took the doors back to the HD and ordered new ones.
To those who said cough up the dollars......perhaps. But I spent a pleasant morning with a wonderful customer and strengthened our relationship.
Who knows if it was our fault. Customer says so and I really don't think she would lie.
Deal is HO buys the doors, I install them and she paints them.
Edited 5/31/2006 12:35 pm ET by Womble
"Deal is HO buys the doors, I install them and she paints them"
Well, that is simple enough.
Wow, man, if those doors were painted, why not just go the Bondo route? You'd have been done a week ago, and the doors would fit just as good as the old ones because they are the old ones.That said, I do understand the intangibles of customer relations. Be careful when you drive the long hinge screws home. As Jeff Buck said, those HC doors are often hung without proper shimming, so don't screw the hinges too tight, or the jamb may distort towards the framing. Just go snug enough to balance the greater mass of the SC doors.Bill
"Me and the homeowner (who is beautiful, charming and funny) took the doors back to the HD and ordered new ones."
spend the day with a hot chick ...
Nice scam!
good work if ya can get it.
I've had worse days ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I just have to ask...
>>>>I own a Maid Cleaning business.<<<<
What is the pay rate for cleaning maids ?
Do you have to clean a certain number of maids an hour ?
Is there hazard pay if the maid doesn't want to be cleaned ?
Aw heck, forget all that... Can I come to work for you ???!?
The destination is not the point. The completion is not the point. Enjoy today. If you can't enjoy today, then what is the point ?
Yeah, I pictured dirty maids too.
You and I? We are sick I tell ya.
I just reserved a room in FLA for a wedding in July, lady says it comes with a coffee maker..like an azz I asked what she wears when she makes the coffee...LOL. Good Thing I prepaid.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
Yeah, I pictured dirty maids too.
Hey, wait, that's yet another dimension! No fair adding in variables!
Bad enough contemplating maids messy enough to need professional cleansing, you have to offer us naught maids in need of cleansing contractors (a lot less likely to make Mike Rowe's TV series . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
On top[ oops ] of all that, the OP says "My WIFES TRUCK" and follows with " Beaautiful HomeOwner ( or close to that)"..
So the OP...Leaves his wife truckless, ferrying around a voluptuous HO, who was wronged by Dirty Maids.. I see a movie deal , IF, he lives to write it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
ferrying around a voluptuous HO, who was wronged by Dirty Maids
Which all occurs in Castle Anthrax, which has six score and ten young girls betwee nthe gaes of 19 and 25, and bad, wicked, evil, naughty Zoot keeps lightingthe Grail-shaped beacon . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"
ferrying around a voluptuous HO, who was wronged by Dirty Maids
Which all occurs in Castle Anthrax, which has six score and ten young girls betwee nthe gaes of 19 and 25, and bad, wicked, evil, naughty Zoot keeps lightingthe Grail-shaped beacon . . . "
When mistaken as a bat by the now out of the closet Catwoman ( tis TRUE, she will now be Lesbian in the comics) and the castle is assunder in pussiferious shenanagins, Zoot returns to Homer Depot to find new, improved sound proof doors and stops at the wash and wax to have his wifes truck detailed, removing any DNA evidence of Tom Foolery.
Zoots wife is not fooled, she know the scents of all the dirty maids, a cross between Simple Green and Windex but this new perfume has her fuming, Zoot does not even buy HER Pachuli..
Zoot is amuck, cast out doors with his hinges untended, and but a handful of longscrews, and shimless.....
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.