Replies

1. 
   bobl | Sep 04, 2003 05:37pm | #1

   while I can't answer your question I do know you don't have enough information in your post for anyone to provide advice.

   like.

   level ground, slope, side of hill, sand, loom, forest, bog, etc, snow, rain fall, freezing conditions

   bobl          Volo Non Voleo

2. 
   SamT | Sep 04, 2003 07:17pm | #2

   Need . . . . . more . . . . . info . . . .!

   SamT

   I now believe all inspiration comes from God, it is meant to be shared, and it demands total commitment to succeed. When that happens, Providence acts too.
   John Hatch

1. 
   Tag | Sep 04, 2003 08:27pm | #3

   Okay, here's more info:

   The ground is relatively level.  It's going in on existing grass lawn - good clean topsoil.  I know it's not over the septic, but it is over electric and phone.  I'm in Indiana and our frost line where I am is 30". 

   Roughly how deep should I excavate and what should I fill with?

   Any help is appreciated

   Brian

3. 
   dIrishInMe | Sep 05, 2003 12:18am | #4

   Tell us what soil type is in the area where the driveway is to go.  What's the grade - steep flat, etc.  BTW - I think FHB had an article on this a few years ago.  Also depends what type of gravel is commonly available in your area, or even just what they call it - different localities have different names for similar products.

   Matt
4. 
   ANDYSZ2 | Sep 05, 2003 05:03am | #5

   I recommend you use a crushed limestone mix, this will set like concrete over a couple years and not turn into a muddy mess. I would go at least 4" thick and plan on adding a second layer in a couple of years.Make sure that there is no drainage going thru the driveway if there is you will need to add a culvert to keep from washing the d.w. out during hard rains.

       ANDYSZ2

   I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.

1. 
   Tag | Sep 05, 2003 06:05am | #6

   Thanks for the input.  I tried to give some info earlier, but I must have posted incorrectly. 

   The soil is existing yard - clean topsoil, as far as I can tell.   It's relatively level most of the way, on high ground next to the house.  I live near Indianapolis, where the frost line is 30".   Is this enough info?

   Do I need pea gravel or sand under the crushed stone?

   Thanks.

   BT

1. 
   Catskinner | Sep 05, 2003 03:54pm | #12

   Hmm, your responses showed up after I posted mine.

   Anyway, thanks, that's enough info.

   If you scrape off the organics, compact the native soil thoroughly, lay your geotextile, put down a lift or two of compacted base course, and top it with 1" of crushed, you should be fine if you pay attention to drainage.

   I would rent a vibratory roller for this, something in the 15,000 pound static weight range.

   The base course and gravel can all be dump spread by a competent driver.

   DRC

2. 
   WayneL5 | Sep 05, 2003 05:34pm | #13

   Definitely not pea gravel.  Any type of rounded stone will not compact into a solid, immovable mass, and asphalt applied on top of it will crack.  It's like making peanut brittle on a water bed.  Smooth and hard until you put weight on it.

   You don't want gravel for the same reason.  By gravel, I mean a mixture of rounded stones and sand.

   The best material for a base is crushed stone.  It's called "crusher run" in my area.  It's material with a jagged shape and range of sizes, from roughly 1/8" or so up to whatever is specified.  All the odd, sharp pieces lock together well, and form a mass that feels as hard as cement when you walk on it.  You can let it settle over a few years, or have a paving contractor spread it and roll it with a vibratory roller.  I would recommend getting "1 inch and smaller" or "1½ inch and smaller" material, which would be crushed stone of mixed size up to about 1 or 1½ inches.  It should be spread about a foot wider on each side than you'll want the finished paved surface to be.

   The thickness depends on the type of soil below and the drainage.  I can't give good advice on that.

   Carefully plan the slopes and elevations of the work, so that when you have the asphalt applied water runs where you want it.  Always measure elevations and slopes, never trust your eye.

5. 
   junkhound | Sep 05, 2003 07:04am | #7

   Here, western WA sate , we call it "5/8 and under".  Crushed rock and pieces that compact under tire pressure to a decent roadway. 

    Like others have said,  info needed otherwise, from just dumping on top existing soil (eg western Montana) to excavating/fill 3 ft deep (Louisiana bayou areas)

1. 
   MisterT | Sep 05, 2003 01:07pm | #8

   One cheapskates trick you can use is, after you put down a good solid drainable base, putdown a top layer of crusher run (smaller stuff).

   Then take a fertilizer spreader and put a good coat of partland cement on top and rake it in.

   Sprinkle lightly and VIOLA !!

   Poor mans concrete!Mr T

   Do not try this at home!

   I am an Experienced Professional!

6. 
   BossHog | Sep 05, 2003 01:54pm | #9

   The 3 most important things in building ANY type of road are:

   1. Drainage

   2. Drainage

   3. Drainage

   Ya gotta keep water off the road. Look at a road anywhere there are potholes or deteriorating sections and you'll see that the water isn't getting drained off properly. Almost without exception.

   My only other suggestion is to use the mat stuff underneath it. (Can't recall the name of the stuff) It keeps the gravel from sinking out of sight, so you don't have to add more gravel every year.

   Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

7. 
   Tag | Sep 05, 2003 03:20pm | #10

   3rd try at answering ....I don't know where the other posts have ended up!!

   Ground is relatively flat & level.  I'll need a culvert at a low spot where yard water runs off.  Existing soil is topsoil(dirt), it's been normal yard w/ grass since '75 probably.  I've dug down about 24" in another spot, and the soil gets orange, but it's still dirt.  Is this iron rust in the soil?  No signs of clay, or sand. 

   It's Indiana, and the frost line is 30".  Hope this helps.  Thanks for the advice so far.

   Brian

1. 
   WayneL5 | Sep 05, 2003 05:42pm | #14

   One more thing.  Twelve feet is a good width for a paved residential driveway, with a flare at the road.  This means your stone base should be about 14 feet wide.

1. 
   Tag | Sep 05, 2003 06:20pm | #15

   I don't plan on paving this second driveway anytime soon - it's just going to stay stone.  There is a possibility that it could be paved someday, but I plan on using it as a "gravel" driveway for as long as I can.  Thanks for the advice.  I'll stay away from pea gravel on this project!

   Brian

2. 
   Remodeler | Sep 05, 2003 08:13pm | #16

   Brian,

   I am a sitework contractor in Indianapolis (Lebanon area).  We do roads for residential subdivisions all day.  Good advise on he type of aggregate to use, my suggestions:  (1) strip the topsoil off.  You want good, hard clay as a base - compacted even better.  Dig to see how deep your topsoil is, probably 4" or so unless it's going through a woods and then maybe up to 12".  Topsoil is not a compactable fill, i.e. it will settle always as it decomposes.  Depending on how long your driveway is, you can dig it out by hand (not as bad as it sounds), or hire someone with a small dozer to knock it out.  e-mail me I can give you local references.

   If you have the budget you can have hydrated lime disced into the top 12" of clay.  We do this to eliminate ruts, etc.  You could do it with a disc harrow (nationsrent rents them for PTO tractors) and portland cement, and then rolling the clay to a flat surface.  Natural ground around indy will compress about 5% which would be expensive for you so the liming might mitigate for you.

   Pay BIG attention to the drainage.  That's what'll hurt you.  Last Sunday's rain should have helped you identify any low spots or sheet drainage over your proposed driveway.

   remodeler

8. 
   Catskinner | Sep 05, 2003 03:48pm | #11

   So what part of the world are you located, Brian?

   Boss is right. Moisture is the common factor to most problems.

   You need three things for a frost heave -- moisture, the right type of soil, and freezing temperatures. Drainage is usually the least expensive factor to control.

   Get the water away from the road at a positive slope, but not so steep as to cause erosion.

   Next is the type of material you import. Well-graded base course (a manufactured material with variety of sizes from 7/8" down to fines), properly compacted gets you headed the right direction.

   Properly compacted means 95% or more at optimal moisture.

   The quality of material varies widely, even in a given region. A hadr, fractured product is usually best.

   Don't put round gravel on top of the base, you'll hate it.

   The material Boss was referring to is called geo-textile. If you live in an area where fill tend to disappear down into native soil, it's the best money you can spend. There are more permeable and less permeable geotextiles avaialable, check out Maccaferri at http://www.maccaferri-usa.com

   OK, now give us more info.

   DRC

9. 
   Luka | Sep 05, 2003 08:27pm | #17

   what matl do I use, etc? 

   If I were you, I'd use gravel.

   ; )

   A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.

   Quittin' Time

1. 
   MisterT | Sep 05, 2003 08:36pm | #18

   Jeff,

   I think he should use Grovel.

   It's hard on the self esteem but saves money!Mr T

   Do not try this at home!

   I am an Experienced Professional!