I had a call the other day from a referal who is a partner in a small building firm who had his finnish carpenter quit (stop showing up) in the middle of a job. Some of the work had been completed, I don’t know how much and he could not tell me. So he want’s me to give him a per square foot bid over the phone with out seeing it or telling me the trim style. His partner then calls and is able to tell me the style and that stairs are involved, but not the amount of work to be completed, and he wants a per square foot bid.
I don’t know what to make of these guys. I told them the only way I could give a bid like that over the phone is per opening.
How do you bid your jobs and how much do you charge? I have been counting the openings(windows, doors, rooms of base) and charging 25 each. If it’s more complicated I double it. I then charge 50 per for crown, single layer, and have a few other one off charges for stairs, built-in’s and the like.
Replies
Do one of two things.
Either tell them that is not how you do business or aim high.
Personally this seems fraught with problems. Why did the previous Finnish carpenter leave? Can you find out (thru sources other than the building firm) who he is.
Them asking you for a sq ft price without seeing it is like asking a mechanic to give you a price to fix your car without seeing it. BAD idea.
If you really want this job write up a detailed bid stating what you will and will not include.
I would run the other way.
I never bid a job without looking at it. Even if it's an hour's ride or more, it's worth seeing the job first hand.
You don't know what the conditions will be, where you'll have to cut, how many corners there are ( that'll eat up time quick).
Even per opening can be dangerous, depending on what type of trim it is.
I don't know where you're located,but FWIW, I start my per opening prices at $45/ opening.
It might be the sheetrock is in terible shape, flooring is uneven, the stairs are screwed up, other poor quality work has been done that needs massaging, and basically they are looking for someone to pin down and take it in the shorts.
For jobs like these the winning bid is often the guy who misbid.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I won't bid something without looking at it (plans or actual space).
I would not want to do business with these folks. They won't give you specifics of what or how much work needs to be done and want you to bid it. NO THANKS! Run.
If they won't let you look at the job or want you to "bid" it per square foot I'd tell them I'm not interested in working for them.
Per sqft prices for trim work is about as dumb an idea I've seen
there's a reason the first guy quit and I'm sure he left without his due compensation. next time someone leaves that job it'll be for the same reason.
I'd have to be flat out of work to even consider it and even then it would be a bad idea. it does'nt hurt as much to get screwed when the checks are rolling in.
DO NOT!!!
$200/sq.ft. ; )
I'll do it for $199.00 per square foot!
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Man, I knew someone would lowball it!
I'll sub it back to you if I get it.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
I'll do it for $220 sq. ft., not get the job, and make out better.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Book of Merlin
You Gringos bid funny.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Gringo my butt! I'm a Swamp Yankee, thank you very much.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Book of Merlin
Well you bid like a Gringo. LOL
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Does that include the nails and glue?
I like your thinking though. NO way would I even consider giving this guy a price over the phone, I was young once and might have done it but no more.
Doug
take 175$ a foot and sub it to the illegals..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ya gotta watch those carpenters from Finland!
I bet the Finnish carp was being Russiad to much and that is why he quit!
Listen and I will teach young Grasshopper.
First stick with your guns. If you don't go by sq. ft. then don't! You go by time and material. The guy's obviously in a bind with the other guy quitting which makes your services a premium service. At the same time the project is a win fall for you. So you say to him, "I'd like to help you but, I don't price my skill and time by the square foot. The project I do are at XXX $$ per hour. I'll tell you what, I'll do it if you supply the materials. And if you cut me a check for my time at the end of each day I put into the project. I'll even throwing the nails. Howsthatsound?" ("Hows that sound" is said as one word.)
You see, you can't get burned on materials, you cash flow daily just in case this guy is a bad egg , and avoid issues of why the other guy quit. The only issue to to negotiate is the XX$$/hour if YOU really need the work. Otherwise tell him you could take it or leave it. Saying NO is the hardest lesson we construction pro's have to learn. Good luck.
Chris
I don't see any profile as to where you are located. Here in eastern Washington there is a lot not all but a lot of GCs that like a square foot price. So you can add up the parts anyway you like. Say for example you go through count openings at $50/opening add the stair package for $2500, crown in the living room with 14' ceilings is going to cost you $500 ( this is all hypothetical). So once you have a number in mind say $5100 for your labor and costs you divide by the square footage say 3200sqft and come up with about $1.60/sqft. Some GCs use that to compare bids, Joe will do it for $1.60/ and Smitty will do it for $1.30/ no different than one guys bid is $5100 the other bid is $4160.
I usually give a square foot bid but I go through and add up all the work to be done like I outlined above. I think since many builders and realtors list homes as $180/ sqft and the like this makes it easier for them.
In your case it is very difficult to give a number over the phone without seeing the job. One guys simple "hang some doors" could mean hang 3 solid cherry doors on the third floor oh the doors are located in the garage and need to have the hinges mortised in and locksets drilled out. In my case all jobs are a bit different but I can go through and get an average for square footage and have an average price. I'm sure you could do the same on some of your projects. To do it on a project where one finish carpenter has walked and you have little info on the scope of work is at best iffy. If your interested look at the job find your number and say " for $2500 I will finish the job". How are you going to break down the amount of work the other guy has done " well Joe did 1257 square feet so that leaves 1943sqft for me at $1.65/...."
Good luck Jeff