Replies

1. 
   moltenmetal | Jun 30, 2004 09:32pm | #1

   What about a "French cleat"?  Pretty simple, totally hidden, and very sturdy- but presumes you've got a recessed back in your cabinets (or no back) and at least an inch of clearance between the ceiling and the top of your cabinets (to be filled in with trim later, or not).  If you're not familiar with what I'm talking about, you may find a reference to "french cleats" over at Knots- I learned about them in Fine Woodworking.  Basically, take a piece of appropriate stock as long as your cabinet assembly is wide, tilt your tablesaw arbour to 45 degrees, rip the stock into two more or less equal pieces.  Attach one to your cabinet back (pointy end down and away from the cabinet back), and the other to the wall (pointy end up and away from the wall).  Set the cabinet in place and let gravity do the rest.  I'd sketch it for you but it seems that it's quicker for me to type a thousand words than to prepare an electronic sketch and post it on this forum!  (sorry!)

1. 
   Sancho | Jun 30, 2004 10:16pm | #2

   I use cab hanging screws by Mc Feeleys. DONT USE PIFFIN SCREWS..:>) 

   Darkworksite4:

   El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera

2. 
   Luka | Jun 30, 2004 11:07pm | #3

   Three drywall screws in each will do just fine.

   One each in the top corners, and one centered on the bottom.

   ; )

   Who cares, wins.

1. 
   Frankie | Jun 30, 2004 11:20pm | #4

   I prefer a nice pattern of brads along the top rear edge of the cabinet interior! The drywall screws are so unsightly - unless you put that pretty finish washer around them. Har! Har! Har! Har! Har! Har! Har! Har! Har! Har!

   F.

3. 
   Frankie | Jun 30, 2004 11:27pm | #5

   Are you refering to method of installation or materials used?

   As for method: Install a cleat on the wall , perfectly level. Use enough screws into the studs so it doesn't move AT ALL. Set each cab on the cleat, shim to plumb, and screw it. Remove cleat

   As for materials: you can use specialty hangers. I think Ooutwater has them, maybe Haffele (sp?) does too. If you use the hangers be sure to order the bottom adjustible shims to plumb the cabinet. I prefer the method above and use 3" wood screws, screwed into the studs or the blocking buried in the wall. If the stud schedule doen't serve your needs, cut a strip of the GWB out and screw in the same size 3/4" cdx plywood as blocking.

   F.

4. 
   EricPaulson | Jun 30, 2004 11:39pm | #6

   Piffin screws and Tyvek.........works every time!

   Eric

   Every once in a while, something goes right!
5. 
   JeffBuck | Jun 30, 2004 11:57pm | #7

   is there going to be any crown and under cab moulding with a skinned bottom?

   That the best route to a highend no fasteners look ...

   use a crown big enough that lets ya squeeze your arm with the drill to screw thru the top mounting rail ...

   and screw thru the bottom rail ... underneath.

   When I first started working for a designer that always used those details .. I hated him for all the extra work ....

   Now a kitchen looks naked to me without a light rail and the whole underside skinned .... all the extra trim dresses them up ... and .. hides all the fasteners and wiring for all the above and under cab lighting.

   if there's no room for tall crown ... as long as I can get solid blocking back there ...

   2 screws ... on tucked up tight into each upper corner ... doesn't bother me too much.

   either Rocklers or McFeeleys has that metal hanging rail  ...

   just checked ... Rockler ... Summer Cat page 107 ... under fastners ...

   "steel cleats" ... 18" long ... $4.99/pair

   they also have something interresting looking on the same page ... "Z-Clips" ...

   only 3/16 protrusion from the wall ...20 clips ... equal 10 sets ... $12.99

   looks to need a 5/8th lift off room ... hmmm....

   may have to do some experimantal buying here ...

   Jeff

   Buck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   caseyr | Jul 01, 2004 07:12am | #11

   Just looked up the Rockler steel cleats on-line:

   http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=347

6. 
   mike4244 | Jul 01, 2004 12:10am | #8

   I'm assuming the cabinet back is flush with the sides. Use cadium plated flathead screws with finish washers into studs or backing if you have backing. Any hardware store carries them. If the back is recessed you can use hanging strips ( french cleat). There are metal ones that you can buy or make your own out of 1/2"or 3/4" plywood.

   mike

7. 
   geob21 | Jul 01, 2004 02:23am | #9

   Steve-

   Tell us all, these wonderful cabinets either have a very substantial back or a hanging strip top and bottom.

1. 
   skasower | Jul 01, 2004 05:54am | #10

   Thanks to everyone who responded so far.  There are really some good suggestions.  GEOB21, I have a 1/4 inch hardwood ply back.  I was planning to mount 3/4 inch nailing strips across the backs (outside) but decided to ask the crew for advice.

8. 
   tyke | Jul 04, 2004 05:40am | #12

   I use washerhead screws from McFeeleys.I just built a set of cabs . Didn't think twice,once their filled, and they will be, you will never see them.

   tyke

   just another day in paradise

9. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 04, 2004 07:34am | #13

   For a flush-back cabinet, use 3" #10 or #12 FH wood screws with cup-style trim washers. Pre-drill full clearance holes right through the cab back and screw into solid blocking or studs. You need 4 in each cab, and your backs had better be well attached to the carcass. Multiple stacks of plates or bowls are not light. If you suspect a really heavy load in a big cabinet, use 5/16 lag screws with flatwashers instead of the #12 screws.

   If your cabinet back has a recess deep enough to accomodate it, a French cleat is the way to go--both halves should be attached as solidly as indicated above. The cleat half attached to the cabinet back can be through-bolted with the nut end recessed--or use T-nuts in the cleat.

   Don't try to set a cab directly into a corner. Most framing/gyprock work isn't square enough to permit you to get away with this. The cab should have a provision for inserting a cheater flange between the face frame and the sidewall so you can set the cabinet as far off the sidewall as necessary. The flange is scribed and trimmed to fit once the unit is installed and can be blind toe-nailed in place from the inside of the cab with 16-18ga airnails. It's not attached to the wall to allow for seasonal movement.

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

1. 
   Geoffrey | Jul 12, 2004 06:13pm | #14

   Dino, best advice so far, to the person suggesting drywall screws DON"T, they are insufficient to hold up a cab full of dishes!! One thing no one has mentioned is that you should be fastening the cabs to each other through the stiles.

   Follow the suggestion above about using a cleat on the wall to set your first cab. on, but don't tighten it down to the wall, just get it plumbed, then set your next cab. on the cleat and clamp it to the previous cab with a c-clamp, making sure to protect the cab stiles from damage during the clamping. Then use #6 or #8 wood screws counter -sunk into the stile to fasten the two units together(I use 3 screws,1 top , 1 bottom , and 1 in the middle) Complete the run in this manner then go back and final fasten to the wall shimming and plumbing as needed.

                                                                                        Geoff

                                                                                    

1. 
   Sphere | Jul 12, 2004 06:28pm | #15

   If the hinges are the type that wrap on the stile, I take the hinge off there and screw behind the hinge..never see it that way. And unless the FF's are not lining up well, those 2 screws are plenty IMO

    

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   Dinosaur | Jul 13, 2004 05:41am | #16

   Unless the upper unit is more than 8 feet long, I usually fabricate it in one piece and then hang it as a single unit. To keep the weight down while I'm hanging a big one, I leave the doors off until it's firmly in place.Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

10. 
    dbanes | Jul 13, 2004 06:48am | #17

    Hey,Listen to the guy about the french cleats, but you can find a very sturdy shelf item at IKEA if you have one around,.It's a pair of metal tracks that interlock the same way,and look at Sphere's note about tying the stiles together. Orrrr,,, trench out your sheet rock and bury those cleats so you don't need any tell-tale trim around the perimeter of the cabinets, and you dont also need a "balancing fir" on the bottom either...

11. 
    Luka | Jul 13, 2004 10:03am | #18

    You know that orange twine you get at the lumberyard, to tie your load down with ?

    Think about it. That stuff holds a lot of stressed lumber weight.

    Get yer helper to hold the cabinet up against the wall.

    Screw a couple of those cupholder hooks in at the upper sides of the cabinet.

    Drill holes through the sides of the cabinet right where the hooks are on the outside.

    Tie some of that swell twine onto one hook, string it through the holes in the cabinet, and tie it to the other hook.

    That stuff will hold all kinds of weight. And if you ever need to tie a load down on your truck, all you have to do is lower the cabinet and borrow the twine.

    As for connecting the cabinets to each other... Drive a sinker into the front of each cabinet, and tie some of the twine between the two.

    If any of them start to sag, simply stick a pencil through the twine, and start twisting. It will tighten right up.

    Hey wait a minnit. Forget I said any of this. This is such a great idea, I am going to patent it. What do you think of the name, "accu-hanger" ?

    "Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet

12. 
    maverick | Jul 14, 2004 04:42pm | #19

    Anyone who hangs cabinets on a regular basis should have one of these. Its called a GilLift.(1-800-448-0822)or google GilLift.

    I call it Pedro.

    Pedro does all the work of a helper except he's never late, never leaves early and never takes a day off. He does'nt complain and never asks for a raise. Me and pedro been workin' together for a couple of years now.

    As you can see the dolly comes off so you can put a flat base on so you could set it on a countertop and install the uppers last if you want to.

    personally I like to install the uppers first.

    I bought mine second hand for $300. But I think they go for about $550

1. 
   IMERC | Jul 14, 2004 05:18pm | #20

   Ah... Could you edit the pictures to something managable.. 2MB is a bit much...

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....                                                                   WOW!!!   What a Ride!

1. 
   IMERC | Oct 04, 2004 08:37am | #41

   getting rid of unread messages...

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

   WOW!!!   What a Ride!

13. 
    maverick | Jul 14, 2004 09:10pm | #21

    Try these pics

1. 
   gdavis62 | Jul 14, 2004 11:01pm | #22

   My, my!  Who made those cabs with the tiger stripe grain in the door stiles?  What am I looking at?  And the inlay beltlines around the cab bases.  Describe all that, please!

2. 
   DougU | Jul 15, 2004 01:51am | #23

   Yea Mav, screw the lift, I want to see pics of those cabinets, love the tiger maple wood!

1. 
   wrudiger | Jul 15, 2004 08:34am | #24

   And those handles!  Not only very cool looking, but asymetric mounting as well. Very nice - more pic's please!

2. 
   maverick | Jul 16, 2004 03:49pm | #25

   We call it maple-walnut. Its tiger maple with black walnut inlays and trim shot with clear laquer. Its actually a product of the scrap pile. I did'nt have enough of either to do the job. The inlays were thrown in to balance proportions.

   and yeah, the fridge is in the corner. not a space saver but it works well in this kitchen.

   Total cost (to me)for cabinets and counters under $2,000.

1. 
   mdresimprov | Jul 16, 2004 10:54pm | #26

   The cabinets look great. Is the maple with walnut inner layers available in 1/2 and 3/4 sheets? Are the rails and stiles maple? Is this stuff special order or available at the yard. I'm in VT.  Is your vendor close by?

   Thanks.......sometimes its questions than answers!

   MES

1. 
   maverick | Jul 17, 2004 04:07pm | #29

   >>Is the maple with walnut inner layers available in 1/2 and 3/4 sheets?

   I never saw anything like that. I cut for inlays with a router. Cut the walnut to fit. sand flush.

2. 
   mdresimprov | Jul 17, 2004 05:09pm | #30

   Thanks. I read your post incorrectly at first. Got it now! Tiger maple rails and stiles.

2. 
   DougU | Jul 17, 2004 12:27am | #27

   Maverick

   Thanks for posting the pictures!

   The kitchen looks great. I have a weekness for tiger maple, cant get enough of it.

   Doug

3. 
   dbanes | Jul 19, 2004 04:37am | #31

   Yea, who cares about the lift,like those cab's -N - my helper probably handles as well as that lift,with the right size of elbowing

3. 
   JeffBuck | Jul 17, 2004 08:01am | #28

   nice cab's and lift ...

   gil-lift?

   been thinking about one of those ...

   BUT ...

   I'm on to you buddy!

   those install pics are faked ... I'm gonna snopes this one I tell ya ...

   no one installs cab's .. life 'er no life ...

   with the doors on ...

   and the handles installed!

   JeffBuck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

4. 
   Gunner | Jul 19, 2004 04:53am | #32

   In case I missed it somewhere, what kind of price is on that lift? And where did you find it?Who Dares Wins.

1. 
   Luka | Jul 19, 2004 05:32am | #33

   12 dollars and seventy five cents.

   It fell off a truck.

   "Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet

1. 
   Gunner | Jul 19, 2004 05:40am | #34

   I'll take two.Who Dares Wins.

1. 
   Luka | Jul 19, 2004 06:09am | #35

   You gotta find the guy that picked them up, after they fell offa the truck. I think his name was Vinny or something like that.

   Or, you could find a truck full of them and make sure some fall of of it...

   "Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet

2. 
   Gunner | Jul 19, 2004 06:24am | #36

   Ohh, now I got to work for em? They don't look so good now.Who Dares Wins.

2. 
   mdresimprov | Jul 19, 2004 01:43pm | #37

   I believe it was quoted earlier as $550 new.

   MES

3. 
   maverick | Jul 20, 2004 04:27pm | #38

   $ 550 new

   http://www.gil-lift.com

1. 
   Gunner | Jul 23, 2004 03:57am | #39

   I like the price Luka quoted better.Who Dares Wins.

1. 
   maverick | Jul 23, 2004 02:10pm | #40

   Then buy it from Luka....