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Discussion Forum

How do you improve your business?

silver | Posted in Business on November 27, 2007 07:07am

Greetings,

I’ve been around way before 2004 but only have 122 posts.

Fact is: I have learned more in the last 2 years about “running my business” than I have learned in my entire career(I’m 55 and have been self employed since 1989)

Fact is: I learned it right here on Break Time or was referred to JLC
or various books.

I learned a lot in the ongoing “how do you speed up your estimating” thread and I’m hoping this thread might be as interesting and thought provoking…

Right now, I really need a good project management contract so if any
one has one to share, I would appreciate it…

I improve my business by:
reading Break Time, JLC,
Michael Stone’s newsletters: www.markupandprofit.com

Also I’m working my way through the attached booklist that I found at JLC.

Sorry for the mess-I’m a cut and paste junkie but there are many gems
in that list…

I would appreciate hearing how you improve your business…how you turned things around, especially how you made your business more profitable!

cheers,
silver

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Replies

  1. silver | Nov 27, 2007 07:05pm | #1

    I posted this late last night so I'll try bumping it myself.

    cheers,

    silver

    1. User avater
      bambam | Nov 27, 2007 09:12pm | #2

      I use the same thing as you do with a few extra mags (free too).Proffesional Remodeler:
      https://cygweb4.cygnuspub.com/Secure/Subscriptions/Sub_form.cfm?iPub_Code=253Remodeling:
      http://www.omeda.com/RM/Qualified Remodeler:
      https://cygweb4.cygnuspub.com/Secure/Subscriptions/Sub_form.cfm?iPub_Code=253These books are all about day to day business. You wont find anything on how to do the work, just the business end. There are also free mags for home builders too if you go to HousingZone.comAs far as Markup and profit goes I really liked that last set of emails about getting the phone to ring. Residential Design Build:
      https://cygweb4.cygnuspub.com/Secure/Subscriptions/Sub_form.cfm?iPub_Code=293Where there's a will, there are 500 relatives

      1. silver | Nov 28, 2007 05:31am | #4

        Thanks for the info bambam"These books are all about day to day business. You wont find anything on how to do the work, just the business end."The trade is the easy part...it's the business end that has been the most challenging...and taken me longest to learn...still a work in progress but improving...Cheers,
        silver

        1. User avater
          bambam | Nov 28, 2007 06:05am | #6

          Those are all good mags but if I had to choose between one it would be Remodeling.
          Business is my weak point too. I am always trying to get new info from anywhere I can. Picked up a lot here in BT.Where there's a will, there are 500 relatives

          1. silver | Nov 28, 2007 07:58am | #10

            You're referring to this one?Remodeling:
            http://www.omeda.com/RM/
            thanks,
            silver

          2. User avater
            bambam | Nov 28, 2007 09:26am | #12

            Yes, that one. They are all good though.Where there's a will, there are 500 relatives

  2. User avater
    Huck | Nov 27, 2007 11:27pm | #3

    Hello.  Sounds like you and I have similar backgrounds - I got my contracting lic. in 1989 also, and have learned boatloads from the good folks here at BT.   Wish you the best with your business!  - Huck

    View Image â€œGood work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles Greene
    CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
    1. silver | Nov 28, 2007 05:36am | #5

      Hi Huck,
      Boatloads would be putting it mildly...I'm light years ahead of where I was a few years back... I see we're roughly the same age too. Nice to finally run into you...silver

  3. Bowz | Nov 28, 2007 07:18am | #7

    What to do to improve business is a pretty broad question.

    basically I read, read, read, attended some classes and seminars, and talked with other contractors. (Not the chest thumping, BSing jackazzes in a greasy baseball cap and a 5 day beard, that hang out at the local lumberyard, but the ones who seemed to be where I wanted to get to) (still ain't there yet, but am closer!)

    A couple of big improvements have been getting a little backbone and saying "no" to some projects and customers.  And for those projects that go through, I am learning to look for the value from a customer's point of view rather than my own point of view.

    A customer is going to define value based on two things. Fear/pain avoidance, and desire/pleasure. Find those leverage points and use them to your advantage. You are not going to find them by shooting off your mouth how great you are, and how you have a truck load of tools, and the best insurance, etc, etc.  You will find them by asking questions and listening to the answers.

    When I started looking for the value from a customer's perspective, it helped to change my mindset that even though I may charge more than someone else, I am not sticking a gun to the customer's ribs and demanding their wallet. (previous mindset was a bit different!)

    I saw the book list over at JLC, and have some of those books. But my question would be how much information do you need? You could have a thousand ideas but if you don't act on any of them what good are they? How about just a few ideas that get put to use, and go from there.

    couple other websites that I have read some articles from are:

    http://www.contractorofchoice.com  and http://www.smalltownmarketing.com

    Bowz

    1. Jim_Allen | Nov 28, 2007 07:49am | #8

      Excellent point Bowz. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

    2. silver | Nov 28, 2007 07:56am | #9

      Thanks for the reply Bowz.You did a great job at answering my question...I know it's broad..."But my question would be how much information do you need? You could have a thousand ideas but if you don't act on any of them what good are they? How about just a few ideas that get put to use, and go from there." I was hoping to amp my learning curve if you know what I mean...In a way,it's like when I was learning the trade....I just couldn't get
      enough info on the subjects I was interested in. And now business fascinates me and I enjoy learning how others have
      solved problems and improved their business...especially if there was
      an aha moment...or this is when things really turned around for me...
      and our mindsets are such a huge part of the puzzle...and like you said,when I changed my mindset... I didn't reveal much about my business.I started in 1970 as a carpenter's helper. Eventually became a journeyman carpenter and a cabinet maker. Paid my dues working for lots of guys and making money for them...And in 1989, decided to take the plunge and become self employed...most of my problems have been because I lacked a business background and several years went into the business apprenticeship. I've come a long ways as a businessman...I'm much more confident with the business end but now I want to make more money...Anyway that's where I'm coming from...from working my bag off in the field to realizing that the money is made in the office...selling the job at a profit!I still work mainly by myself;hire subs when I need them;DW does the bookwork,design work and finishing.

      Our specialties include renovations, kitchens, bathrooms, handrails and custom cabinetry.We are quite a fine tuned team but it's lots of work-enjoy it most of the time. I'm trying to implement what I learn as fast as I can but I also want to learn faster...hope this makes sense,silver

      1. Jim_Allen | Nov 28, 2007 08:44am | #11

        I'd suggest hiring a commission sales person. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

        1. silver | Nov 28, 2007 05:42pm | #13

          Morning Jim,I could easily sell lots more...My Dad was a very successful salesman and some has finally rubbed off...it almost feels natural to me...it helps if you believe in the product and service you're selling.Keeping up to present sales and "business" is my challenge...and I seem to do projects that require extreme finess.I have my eye on a self employed carpenter who I've worked with in the past.When work warrants I hire him as contract labour and we lock right on
          and become a team... At 28./hr. he is a bargain. All I have to add to his wage is my overhead/profit margin.I feel a responsibility to pass on what I've picked up here at Break Time to him because his mindset is close to where my was a few years back.Last year he was 24./hr.Supposed to be doing a bid-it's true that BT is addicting...<grin>
          snowing like crazy-don't want to drive for a while anyway so the boss says its oksilver

          1. Jim_Allen | Nov 28, 2007 08:11pm | #16

            I didn't suggest that you hire a salesagent because I didn't think you are capable. I suggested it because it sounds like you are doing two full time jobs, and probably handling the administration side too. No one is efficient enough to do that as well as three equally competent and separate people. Most tradespeople can't afford to replace themselves in the field, full time even if they could find someone capable. The easiest solution then is to use a salesperson becuase their salarty is based on commission. Sales are the engine of your business. While you are out in the field executing the "finesse" needed to finish a job, your engine is parked in the garage. It probably should be revved up and out on the road.Could you imagine what Microsoft, Walmart, or GM would be today if they never hired any sales reps? FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          2. silver | Nov 28, 2007 08:46pm | #17

            Blue,I never put it together in my mind like that and I sure appreciate
            that new take on things...it really has me thinking! You're bang on-I
            am trying to handle it all myself...and can't afford to replace myself in the field.What's the definition of insanity...doing and thinking the same and expecting different results...Thanks,silver

          3. redeyedfly | Nov 28, 2007 08:47pm | #18

            As far as hiring a sale person. I think it all depends on your strengths and what type of projects you are selling.
            I don't know that I would suggest a one man operation to hire a salesperson as their first hire.

          4. Jim_Allen | Nov 28, 2007 09:13pm | #19

            "I don't know that I would suggest a one man operation to hire a salesperson as their first hire. "Why not? Lets say a newbie, who is a competent contractor, miraculously hires the world's greatest salesperson on a commission sale basis. The guy goes out and sells everything he pitches. What's the problem? Too many sales? I want that problem. I'll find the solution. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          5. redeyedfly | Nov 28, 2007 09:17pm | #20

            Too many sales can be an even bigger problem than not enough.You should have planned controlled growth.

          6. Jim_Allen | Nov 29, 2007 07:09am | #21

            It would be very easy to control the sales, especially if you are a one man band.The guys sells an addition that will take one month. The salesperson now tells the next client "we are one month out". He sells that job. He gets to go in to the next sale and say " we are two months out". At some point, if you are 6 months out, the buyers quit buying. Problem solved. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          7. redeyedfly | Nov 29, 2007 04:28pm | #23

            So what does the salesman do for the next month while the one laborer does the addition?
            I'm not saying hiring a salesman is a bad idea. Just probably not a first hire for a one man remodeler.
            Also, trying to limit the sales of a salesman is like asking him not to breathe. A good salesman anyway.

          8. Jim_Allen | Nov 29, 2007 07:21pm | #24

            That's an excellent question.You posed the problem that the salesperson would create too many sales. I flippantly explained that you'd just delay new sales by stringing out the lead time, which really is the reality.Another reality is that most competent GCs would find a way to deal with a normal amount of growth and there would a balance struck between production and extended lead times. Realistically, the sales person is not going to be the worlds greatest salesperson and they will have to work hard to oversell the ability to overproduce. If I had to solve the problem of too few sales or too many sales, I'll gladly take a shot at solving the too many sales issues LOL! That is a problem that very few contractors ever experience in any significant way. One way to deal with the sales guy that overproduces is to allow them to work your business part time. That way, if you are paying 10% sales commission and he sells a million dollars worth of goods in his first three months, he can work his other job while he's waiting for the 100k to get produced and pay him. Basically, it's much easier to hire a part time commission sales person that is worth their salt that to hire a part time grizzled old pro carpenter that knows what they are doing and will do it for you. In fact, it's probably impossible to find that part time carpenter in the capacity described. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          9. silver | Nov 29, 2007 07:33pm | #25

            "it sounds like you are doing two full time jobs, and probably handling the administration side too."blueI'm busy today putting together a revised contract and showing up to resell it with a sawzall under my arm to take care of a few changes...just had time to skim the posts-thanks blue,red and Bowz for the thoughts...I'll be back late tonight with my take on things.I read lots...but when someone puts it like blue did above, it opens your eyes and mind.appreciate your help,silver

          10. redeyedfly | Nov 29, 2007 07:43pm | #26

            I don't think the reality is stringing out the lead time. Once you get too far out your lead times become rough guesses and you lose sales. The real reality is that you need to have an operation that can handle the volume a full time salesman can deliver. There is much more to growth than counting the work orders. With every step of growth comes new challenges that you need to solve and adapt to.
            I don't think it is good advice to tell a one man operation (for the last 18 years) that he hire a salesman. He needs to figure out production first. You're going to have a lot of angry customers when you hire five guys to complete the work and none of them are competent to do it. It's a tough balancing act at that stage unless you have deep enough pockets. Getting your production streamlined enough to justify even a part time sales position (good luck finding someone competent to take that position) is the first step. I would rather go through 5 bad carpenters than one bad salesman. A bad carpenter can cost you a couple days, a bad salesman can land you in court or in bankruptcy.
            No offense to all the carpenters out there, but a good construction salesman is much, much more difficult to find than a talented carpenter. Of course it depends what you are selling as I wrote earlier. Roofing, siding, replacement windows are easy to train a salesman for. Custom renovations are a different story entirely. In ANY case if you are a one man labor force your FIRST step towards a bigger operation should not be to hire a salesman IMO. Your production capabilities don't justify it.

          11. redeyedfly | Nov 29, 2007 07:46pm | #27

            One more thought. If you can't replace yourself in the field, you should probably work for someone else.

          12. Jim_Allen | Nov 29, 2007 08:12pm | #29

            "ut that takes the leap of assumption that the thieves approached and he felt threatened."I don't necessarily agree with that but I'll reserve my opinion once I understand what/why you are saying that. What do you mean by that? FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          13. Jim_Allen | Nov 29, 2007 08:10pm | #28

            Its probably a lot easier to find part timers. I recently ran an ad on craigslist to judge the type of sales people that I might find. I was flabbergasted. One guy has been running gc business for decades and liked the idea of retiring from the field and turning all the sales over to our company and just skimming the 10% in the form of a sales commission. Another sold kithen cabinets and quite often turned down other types of installations including additions, roofs, sidings, window replacements etc. He offered to sell those types of products part time while focusing on his core business of cabinets.I had a construction equipment sales lady offer to do it partime because the idea of remodeling was something that she dreamed of doing. She made enough money selling and renting forklifts and cranes but still had time and energy to chase down remodeling leads if we scheduled them in the evenings and weekends. There were retired people that sold things for all their lives that wanted to stay somewhat busy but didn't want the rigors of a full time job. Those are just a sampling of one ad that I ran in Craigslist. I wasn't quite ready for production, so we haven't hired anyone yet. That is on our agenda.Notice how I just managed the potential for growing too fast: I slowed the process down myself. You can't forget that a single tradesperson has the ability to not only produce, but to also set all the parameters when he hires someone, even a sales person. He could limit the amount of sales just like any sales manager in any business. He could slow sales by increasing profit margins or taking only the choicest jobs. There are a wide variety of strategies to deal with too many sales. Someday, I'll tell you a little story about a guy that rapidly grew a roof business with commission sales people. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          14. redeyedfly | Nov 29, 2007 08:19pm | #30

            I also noticed how you said you weren't quite ready for production.As far as your roofing friend. I made an explicit exemption for the "roofing, siding, and replacement window" businesses. I understand how those companies operate. One man can situate himself as the GM between many production crews and a sales staff.
            I don't get the feeling that is what sliver is trying to do. In that case I would also have my production crews lined up and screened before I ever hired a salesman.

          15. Hazlett | Nov 30, 2007 12:07am | #31

             blue--- i am currently dealing with the "too many sales" situation-------and you can take it from me--it ain't as  pleasant a situation as you might think

            ( BTW-- this too many sales situation--is the result of blind,dumb luck--being in the right place at the right time---roofing contractor whose personal home sits smack dab on ground zero for a hail storm last july 8th-phone is STILL ringing from that one--in fact even as I typed this I answered a call from someone needing a  hail damage inspection)

             at any rate-------a one man band hiring a salesperson as the first hire is  NOT the way to go in my opinion. A semi competent salesman-could easily sell that one man band right into bankruptcy-----too big,too fast, too bad.

            just my opinion,

            Stephen

          16. MikeSmith | Nov 30, 2007 02:28am | #32

            i am in the process of trying to slowly groom my successor....

            started in '75 with one guy... by the  early  '80's i had three trucks and 6 guys  and  one part time office person

            that was not a good business plan for me

            right now i'm hunkering down.... the recession that i've been thru every decade of our existence got postponed by a bunch of years

            anyways.... i'm purposely running a lean organization.. me and two guys... they take care of nothing but  production... i help out on production

            i do all the rest except the bookeeping & payroll ( payroll  service..... gotta be one of the best things you can ever do )

            bookeeping is one guy  about two hours in the office... and another 6 or so off-site

            i do design, estimating , management, supervision, sales

            but.... i'm 63 and i still love what we do..

             if my health holds up .. i think i can do this until i'm 70..

             between now and then.. i'll bring one of my guys along to the point where we're all working for him..

             

            so.... based on 32 years in business..

            couple things:

             get a payroll service

            incorporate

            get a bookeeper

            hire emplyees and treat them the way you'd want to be treated.. it's a two -way street..

             you watch their back and they watch yours..... say with them thru thick & thin.... when you find a good one , figure out what will keep them around for the long haul

            figure out what your business plan is  and work on it....

             my impression is  exactly what older guys told me along the way...

             you work on your business until it gets to the point where it works for you.... this means you have to invest time, money & people in it

            if you limit yourself to a one-man band....everything stops when you do

            if you have a  business , and employees ( or one employee )... the business keeps chugging even when you're not there.....

            you can go to seminars... you can go to Fests, you can take vacations, and the business keeps going

            and after awhile , you recognize the cycles.. and you get to where you can read the signs, and understand your sustomers and what makes them tick...

            the internet has accelerated this learning process..

             i can learn things here in a week that used to take me a year of going to meetings and schmoozing with other builders

            but you should still get involved with other builders  in an organized manner... like NAHB... or NARI... the dynamics of groups are always informativeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          17. redeyedfly | Nov 30, 2007 02:33am | #33

            That's some good advice Mike.

          18. silver | Dec 11, 2007 03:15am | #40

            That's some damn good advice Mike"if you limit yourself to a one-man band....everything stops when you doif you have a business , and employees ( or one employee )... the business keeps chugging even when you're not there..... Largely as a result of the advice in this thread,I am seriously thinking of hiring a carpenter to help me with production...I've read your post a few times...Thanks,silver

          19. Jim_Allen | Nov 30, 2007 04:12am | #34

            I never suggested that anyone should hire a full time salesperson with the intent to stay a one man band as you have dedicated yourself to be, so your situation would be entirely different and I'd agree....you don't need any sales staff.The op mentioned that he was spending too much time doing both jobs and I was merely pointing out that he would be better off hiring a salesperson rather than trying to replace himself. Redeye sounded the alarm claiming that too many sales would ruin him and I just tried to offer ten different ways to slow it down to manageable levels. The idea of having someone sell for a tradesmen is something akin to treading on haunted forbidden land. I don't know any tradesman that has ever hired someone to do their sales. I also don't know many tradesmen that have thriving, sustainable businesses. Do you think there might be a correlation? I will amend my suggestions to:If you want to escape the chains of wearing all the hats, and grow your business to something more than a one man band burning themselves out, think about hiring a competent sales person, either full time or part time. Notice I said: think about it. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

          20. Hazlett | Nov 30, 2007 02:30pm | #36

             blue,

             I think " breaktime" has an unusually high ratio of tradesmen with "thriving, sustainable businesses"----

             but  across the entire industry????------ you are probably correct.

             stephen

          21. silver | Dec 11, 2007 02:34am | #37

            Hey,I just reread this thread and I agree with Mike-I can learn something in a week on Breaktime what used to take a year...some great advice-THANKS!!I've been buried with production-Christmas rush. Today is a day off/office day and I hope to go back and reply to several enlightening posts...silver

          22. silver | Dec 11, 2007 03:07am | #39

            Hi Blue," will amend my suggestions to:
            If you want to escape the chains of wearing all the hats, and grow your business to something more than a one man band burning themselves out, think about hiring a competent sales person, either full time or part time.
            Notice I said: think about it."Thanks for that and I am thinking about it...this thread had provided lots of food for thought, especially when I was recently buried in production.I seem to be a "dyed in the wool" craftsman...not that I can't change
            but it runs deep...part of who I am...to become a craftsman who could build anything was one of my goals when I was eighteen and I think I have accomplished that goal. I have folks who "sell" for me...a shop that specializes in rails and floors hands out my cards and says-this is one of the best guys in town...and my subs presell for me as well...so when I'm ready for my next job, it's an easy sell for me...and it helps...I could easily sell more...it's keeping up that's my problem so I'm considering hiring a carpenter who can work without supervision who works mainly on his own but has some time for me.Thanks,
            silver

      2. redeyedfly | Nov 28, 2007 05:55pm | #14

        The biggest leap I ever made was hiring a full time carpenter and getting used to it. It's a leap of faith for sure. But the difference in productivity is enormous. Probably the second biggest was hiring a second carpenter so I could take care of the all the details that aren't on site. I think I'm a very good carpenter, but my place isn't swinging a hammer 8 hours a day. I really, really like to swing a hammer, but I should be making sure my machine is kept in tune and supplied with everything it needs.Figure out what you're good at and hire people that fill in the blanks. It's really hard letting go of responsibility and you'll get burned a few times. But if you find the right people and train them the rest of the way you'll be able to take that next step. Of course, only if you want to. A lot of guys really just want to be a one man show. Some want to be 40. I want to be about six.

        1. silver | Nov 28, 2007 06:15pm | #15

          The biggest leap I ever made was hiring a full time carpenter and getting used to it. It's a leap of faith for sure. But the difference in productivity is enormous. Probably the second biggest was hiring a second carpenter so I could take care of the all the details that aren't on site.Thanks for that! It's what I was fishing for when I started the thread... I want to make more money and not be so swamped with work and details...
          It's good to know it worked for you...I'm thinking myself, a lead carpenter and/or a good helper might be my next step...trying to work it out now in my head...change my mindset...figure out how to pull it off financially...appreciate the feedbacksilver

      3. Bowz | Nov 29, 2007 07:26am | #22

        And now business fascinates me and I enjoy learning how others havesolved problems and improved their business...especially if there wasan aha moment...or this is when things really turned around for me...and our mindsets are such a huge part of the puzzle...and like you said,when I changed my mindset

        I don't recall a big   "ahah!"  moment, but a series of smaller ones. I started on my own in '91, and did a lot of cabinet installs for a 30 person shop, and a lot of reference work from a mom and pop lumberyard here. Around 2001 the lumberyard folded, and the cabinet shop was sold. So work as I knew it dried up. In 2003 I considered getting out, and DW and I looked into a totally different business. That didn't work out so I went back at it but decided to learn more about the business end.

        late in 2003 I figured if I am going to learn I need to figure out this internet thingy. So I borrowed a friends old laptop, and password and signed on. I had wanted to get to the NAHB website, but picked up my FHB magazine and tried the Taunton site and clicked on Breaktime. Couldn't believe the kind of info that was available here and at JLC. If I was going to stay in this business, these were the types of rescources I would need.

        Anyway, one of my "ahah!" moments was in January 2004. Sonny Lykos and DanT had an exchange on JLC where DanT was trying to defend his $27/hr price. Sonny basically ripped him a new azzhole and told him to raise his expectations and his self-respect. Damn! That post could have been written directly to me! I read it the morning I was scheduled to do a cabinet install for the cabinet shop. (They had sent me a few of their difficult installs)

        When I got to the site, there were a number of things screwed up. Like having to park my truck a half a block away, it was a domestic abuse shelter so i had to get buzzed in every time I left the building, there were kids running all over, etc.  Stuff that the salesman neglected to include. In the past I would have worked the job and hoped for the best, but I had been thinking about the Sonny/DanT exchange on the drive to the site. So I picked up the phone and called the shop and told them all that was wrong and that my bid was out the window, did they want me to stay and work at T&M or should I pack up and go home?

        They said stay and work. After I hung up the phone I sat in the truck and realized that this was the begining of the final end of working for them. I did a few more jobs spread out over the next year or so but not much. However, that phone call also netted me an additional $380 I normally would have swallowed.

        It was also the begining of a change in mindset to take care of "me" first.

        A couple weeks later I signed up for a state conference called "Better Buildings; Better Business." I took a bunch of the business classes, and then signed up for the NAHB Introduction to Business Management class that was also offered during the conference, along with signing up for the rest of the NAHB Certified Aging In Place classes 2 weeks after that.

        At the CAP classes I ended up sitting next to a very successful remodeler (I later learned his company had been a Big 50 in the 90's) He invited the class to his office and showroom after class and a bunch of us went. it was inspiring to be in an arena of complete professionalism. Can't really explain the feeling.

        Later that year one of the other class members threw out an E-mail looking for someone to go to the Remodelers Show in Chicago. So I went with him. I took as many seminars as I could squeeze in, and met and talked to a lot of people. Some very successful, but many were also struggling. I am still in the process of improving and have a ways to go, but that Show was a turning point for me.

        Oh, one humorous point about the bill for the cabinet shop. Right before I left my office to drop it off, and explain the extra charges, the song, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Alice Cooper came on the radio. It made me laugh.

        Bowz

        1. silver | Dec 11, 2007 02:50am | #38

          Hi Bowz,
          Late in replying but I found your post very interesting...I had a similar experience-I was charging 35./hr when I first starting reading
          Jerrald's discussions on overhead and profit and once the light when on,I searched the archives and read and reread many of the business threads in BT and JLC, read Stone's book, raised my rate to 50./hr and starting adding 35% to each contract. Still learning and now changing mindset-now I want to charge 50.+/hr plus 40-50% markup...working on that but I have sold a few jobs at that newer pricing.NAHB-new to me...going to try to follow up...been trying to get to a JLC show and the next time it's in Minneopolis, I'm going.Thanks,silver

          1. Bowz | Dec 11, 2007 07:25am | #41

            Couple of other points to babble about:

            When I mentioned getting P.O.ed at the cabinet shop, and that being the begining of taking care of myself, there is a little more to the story. I did a few more jobs for them, but the last 3 I got strung along on payment until I let a mutual client know that I was considering pursuing liens to recover my money. i got paid 3 days later and never did work for them again.

            They subbed to someone else then, but 2 months ago the shop closed it's doors. I found out last week they stiffed the last installer for over 10 Grand!!!!

            Another "Ahah!" moment was in late 2004 doing a rather fancy kitchen. Bunch of details to leave out, but for this job I raised my rates from $42 and $38/hr on installs. to $50/hr.  I had been reading the book, "The Experience Economy" after Sonny recommended it. During this job I concentrated on the client's "experience" as much as I did on the work.  A comment that was passed on to me from a friend of this client was how they were impressed with the work, but I needed to raise my rates because I was "giving myself away". (the clients had actually said that)      

            Hmmmmmmm...................raised my rates and I am "giving myself away"...????

            When I mentioned being in the one remodelers showroom and office I learned a couple of things. The first was a bunch of his client qualifying questions, and the reasons he asks those questions. Another interesting thing was how he had only 6 days of work scheduled, and how unruffled he was about it. i mean I am chewing my nails up to the second knuckle if I am not out at least 6 weeks, and this guy was unphased about only being out 6 days. He had stuff to do around the shop, and he had some stuff in the works, and he had been through this a number of times, and it would work out in the end. Totally different mindset. And obviously dropping his rate to fill up his schedule was not going to be an option.

            I plan to get to JLC sometime too. I went to Remodelers Show on the recommendation of someone who had been to both. 

            Bowz

  4. IdahoDon | Nov 30, 2007 06:08am | #35

    I would appreciate hearing how you improve your business...how you turned things around, especially how you made your business more profitable!

    #1:  Fish the section of stream with the most fish of the type you are after.  If you want a big fish, then don't wade around a river full of stockers.  80% of the fish you want are in 20% of the water.

    #2:  Don't forget the WOW! factor.  Look for solutions that have a little WOW! in them.

    #3:  Find ways to be passionate about what you do.  It's contageous and profitable.

     

    Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

  5. bobbys | Dec 11, 2007 09:33am | #42

    its not one size fits all but this is what i have found, I started by myself then needed help , I hired a halfway carpenter that could follow directions, In the mornings i worked then left him alone to go run bids and other bids, I was not paying full wages so it helped me get through all my screwups, Then i got more into roofing and could not watch over carpentry without a journeyman, Hired a roofer and helpers then i could not pull off the roofs, But as the crew got better i ran a roofing crew and i ran the carpenter crew plus the tree bizness, I finally figured out the roofing was where the money was for me, Some things about hiring though , once you jump on the threadmill you must race faster to keep it going, You dont wanna lose key guys to slow times thus must hustle up more work thus more headaches and weekend bidding, More jobs... more problems, more employees more babysitting , Bigger reward... bigger chance of going under, Stress took a toll on me, plus we never went on vacations i had so many people depending on me

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