Hi everyone,
Just curious, how do you guys screen prospective clients/customers?
Are there any red flags you look for?
Thanks!
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Pure intuition.
I will also add that if your competition refers you to them, that there is a red flag!
It's a gut thing, developed through the school of hard knocks. Crazy? Cheapskate? Jerk? Life's too short to give these people any time whatsoever. Unfortunately, sometimes they don't "out" themselves until business has already commenced. The short form of my approach: I won't work with people I don't like. Sounds simplistic, but why not?
Good people who need your help are what makes life worthwhile for me. And there are lots of them out there. A skilled, caring, and trusted contractor is as valuable as a good doctor to the people who understand. And the best contractor in the world will never be appreciated or valued by people who just don't get it.
There's a lot of good material around about what questions to ask prospective clients, and that approach can save a lot of time by weeding out the unacceptables. But I go with my gut.
Go with you gut, if it feels off or funny, something probably is. Or build in the 'aggravation' factor and be prepared.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Another vote for go with your gut. The one time I went against my gut cost me.
Sell them a SCA.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
No particular procedure but I have found if they ask me to do it cheaper to walk away. Every single price shopper has been more interested in what they pay than the quality of work. I market myself on quality not price so it is a bad match to work with anyone who puts cost first.
I hate to say it but I have much smoother transactions when working with clients who share my cultural background. Trying to understand expectations of someone brought up in a different culture can be challenging.
I don't like to drive more than 35 miles one way to a job so that is another criteria for screening.
BTW I am a granite fabricator
Karl
It would be really nice if there was a service, similar to a credit bureau, for construction customers. I threatened to start one after getting burned by one yayhoo... but my attorney seemed to think I would have to follow the same rules as a credit bureau (fair credit act and all related stuff).
As it stands, you can get all the info you can and still find out after the fact that several contractors prior to you have been burnt.
Gut feeling is never to be ignored... especially if it says "no".
Check with your recorder's office to assure there are no other mechanic's liens on the property (or any have been filed in the past). many recorder's have this information available on the web. BTW... be sure to check ALL properties owned by the individual. Had one guy that stiffed a contractor on one property... and was getting work done on a different one.
Also check public documents on lawsuits filed against the prospective customer.... OR lawsuits that they have filed. Clerk of the common pleas court or municipal court clerks have this information available. Gives SOME insight... but be sure to check out further any detrimental information... things are not always as bad as they seem on the surface. Just because a lawsuit was filed... doesn't mean that the customer was in the wrong. In a lot of circumstances, this information is online... however the dispositions may require a trip to the courthouse.
If you have a REALLY big job... you can check credit with appropriate releases.
People ask for my references... why can't I ask for theirs? I haven't asked for this from anyone... but I don't think I would have any qualms if the situation called for it.
Simply run the person's name on a google search. You'd be surprised what you find sometimes. Same with a phone number.
Information is power. The more information you can garner (legally) the better.
Just an FYI... with simply a name... it is downright scary what you can find out about a person from public records. Add to it a birth date... it's REALLY scary. A SSN... well, I swear it is possible to get the color of someone's undies with a SSN.
Edited 3/14/2005 6:29 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Another plug for your gut. In the jobs I've done, my gut has been O so right. Too bad I didn't listen when I knew I should have. I know this all sounds generic, but the others have great answers. I feel it's very important to learn about intuition and what to do about it. This may take a few jobs. One thing that I learned to "hate" is indecisiveness. If I need to re-do the proposal too many times, I should walk away. I don't mind giving people what they exactly want, but they need to know these things before I start wasting my time.
Another flag may be the amount of knowledge the HO has about the project. You know some people have it already built before you even get a call. This would flag me because of the expectations they would have.
Maybe this helps a little.
Hook
Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
sometimes it depends on how hungry your kid are.
usually it is a gut feeling, something they say that sounds like they have screwed people before, any negative talk about others)
talking bad about people, even if they deserve it
but if times are tough and bills are due, and kids bellies are growling
get all the ducks in a row, have a good solid contract ,a lawyer produced contract
cross your fingers, pray to your God and your ancestors and go for it
because you cant squeze blood from a turnip, no matter how good your contract
lately, knock on wood, I have been lucky
but the memories of lean times and the rip off artists are burned deep
unfortuantley I look at every client real hard
yet
I treat them with the upmost respect as they may be my next boss
its a balancing act, big time
good luck
Ideally, you will develop the feness to screen potential clients over the phone. Less time wasted. I was working up to that, but then bailed on working for the general public... Truth be told, I never was any good at it. (the qualifying) Develop a list of questions/criteria, not only to help you quickly define the job, but to qualify the client. And when the red flag does go up, just make a polite excuse, rather than leavaing them hanging....
Listen to what Mike, Piffin, and Sunny offer. They are the "pros".
It might make me an horse's azz, but what they do is part of the equation. I stay away from lawyers. Love working with web designers, folks that work at high-end clothes stores, and others that have an eye for different and quality.
But your gut is your best bet.
How they treat you.
Do they have quality craftmanship in their house already?
Are they excited- or do they act like they are buying a used car?
Did three lawyers
Burned by two
<raising hand>
Burnt by a lawyer here. Still in litigation.
Had one client that I built 4 houses for. Always had to dun him for the last draw. When I got to where I didn't need his hassle anymore I quit working for him. A year later this guy calls me and starts asking me questions about building some houses for him--- said he was refered by the former deadbeat. I told him I didn't have the time (which was the truth ). This client has built 3 restaurants, 1 apartment, and 2 subdivisions---- in the last three years. My share ----$0.00.
Don't make the same mistake, let every client qualify themselves. Not their referrels
Geez I would of thought this would be a really great topic. I actually sort of surprised that everyone (at least those that have replied so far) seem to leave it all up to intuition and a gut feeling.
I've got a little what I call a "triage meter" in my estimating program that is sort of tool that can be used for client screening. The program asks you to assign a numeric value to rate the following conditions of the job lead on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being the worst or lowest rating and 5 being the highest or best.
I call it a triage meter in that we use to evaluate and then sort projects we have in our estimating queue based on which ones are the best bets and best fits for our operation. We then approach the estimates based on the order of the rankings. To a degree that is. Any lead that generates an average rating of 1 or 2 we call and let know were not really a fit for their project. That is if we weren't able to determine that during the initial phone contact.
I'm not sure where or how I came up with that criteria since I've been using it since at least as far back as '97. Probably out of some book I read but I really just can't recall what one. However there is a much more extensive checklist of client qualification and project criteria for making BId or No Bid decisions beginning on page 76 in Thomas Frisby's book How To Survive and Prosper in Construction; Checklists for Success
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I'm now working on integrating some better more thorough client and qualification criteria into my software based on what I've read in his book and just created on my own over the years.
As for a big huge flaming red flag. I think I have one. If a potential client balks when you hand them a written contract run away. It one thing to work on a handshake with someone you've known for years but if a potential client balks at your prepared contract it's going to be trouble. The three out the three times that happened to me in 14 years it turned out to be trouble.
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On the contrary, I thought that my post was warning against just using gut reaction.
Sorry about that bambam. I probably should have been more careful and not just lumped everyone together in the category of just offering gut and intuition as advice category. Maybe "most" or "so many" would have been a better choice of words on my part. Long day,... and it's only Monday, geesh.I hate the idea of leaving so much of what should be a pragmatic rational decision to gut and intuition. I probably have an equal amount of people I trusted based on my gut that burned me and people who I didn't trust on first glance who surprised me.One other red flag comes to mind. The people who flamboyantly talk about their ethics and honesty in a noble self-aggrandizing manner.... don't trust them.
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Thats ok. Iv'e been burned by gut reaction a little but its also helped some too. I like your approach though, gonna look into that, thanks.
I think I offered more than just "gut feeling"... but I do rely on that gut a lot... and it very rarely is wrong.
>> ... and it very rarely is wrong.How can you know? You know how many of the jobs you took went bad, but you have no way of knowing how many of the jobs you turned down would have worked out just fine.
Good point. But why tempt fate if there is plenty of work?
And yes... I do believe in fate. Everything (even the bad stuff) has a purpose. The trick is finding out what that purpose is.
Edited 3/14/2005 11:55 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
Hey I already apologized for that accusation on my part! Mea culpa. I wasn't careful enough in my writing.Your gut is rarely wrong? Your a better man than I am then. My gut feelings only hit .500. They are wrong as often as they are right.One of our very best GC clients I had a real bad feeling about when I first ran across him and his company. I couldn't have been more wrong. There is a fellow who frequents these forums here who I once trusted and now recognize for the back stabbing manipulaing jerk he is. He made the mistake of sending a private e-mail condemning bad mouthing me for what I was writing on a topic publicly in a JLC forum to a friend of my brother who had asked a question. I then met that guy at a super-bowl party and he told what (name withheld to protect the jerk) wrote about me and then later forwarded me that e-mail so i could read it myself. I thought it was pretty funny but at the same time sad and pathetic but the point is I had a lot of respect that I gave that fellow up until then. My initial gut feeling had him all wrong.
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I hit about 80% on good feelings. I hit almost 100% (99.4) on bad ones. Every single time I have ignored my gut on a bad feeling... or talked myself out of my gut feeling... I have been miserably wrong.
In a prior life, I was over HR for some rather large organizations. I always seemed to have a sixth sense when something "just wasn't right". If I got that feeling.. I would investigate the heck out of the situation.. even if it appeared to an open and shut circumstance. In every situation like this... the facts ended up bearing out something different than what appeared on the surface.
As far as jumpin you about the post... I posted prior to reading all of the subsequent ones, despite my gut feeling that I should! Sorry.
Good topic. Thankfully, Jerrald will have more. Always a good source.
Gut feeling are fine, but as in other things, feelings are over-rated.
first....how does the lead come to you......or .....did you go to them. Is a referral or a solicitation. If it's the latter, I can't comment. Whole different animal.
I only get work though referral. Big plus.
I only work for nice people. So rule #1, never accept work from mean poeple or their friends. Mean folk tend to hang out with mean folks and nice folks tend to hang out with nice folks. Sounds simplistic? Sure, but your the one who's gonna live with these folks for a while. Might as well enjoy the ride.
I "qualify" clients in stages. First stage is on the phone. Who/ What /How much?
That's about it. If they can't get past a willingness to discuss a proposed budget, I simply explain that I don't give bids.
70% gone bye bye........usually takes me all of 5 min. in the comfort of my office.
2nd stage....after the lead tells me what they want to do (the program)..................... and a willingness to express a budget (budget) and what they expect (quality, service) I set up a meeting
I call this the interview. It's not a meeting to sell the job, rather it's an opportunity to observe the lead (s) in person. Do I want to work for this person?
Do they seem nice? Do they communicate with each other and with me in a sane, rational way? Is their place clean or filthy? Do they know what they want? Are they more interested in price rather than service? Do they have money? What's the budget?
What's the budget?
There's reams of ideas here of how to help your lead express a budget, and what works for me is after the lead tells me what they want to do, I usually responds with a statement like..."we recently did a project like that and it ran around $55k........or the national average for a kitchen remodel is .......
No budget, no more work from me....... bye.........
After all this, this is where I'm usually relying on that "pucker" factor. That gut is helpful.
It also helps if the "client" pays a retainage on the spot. You'd be surprised how many people will plop down $5,000.00 to secure your services........if you ask.
Mcdonnell, you are right, Jerrald does indeed offer a wonderful array of relevant useful advice!
And...more power to you, for giving us your system. It's one that I will embrace. I've got a fair amount of leads to followup on from the show, some have already given me their budget numbers, but I'm going to re-interview, re-affirm our conversations, as well as budget numbers and then set an appointment (if they pass this audition). I'll be using your exact process...it seems like a logical starting point for me.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
WOW!!!
Thanks for all the replies everyone! I am impressed with the response I have gotten.
I am not in business for myself, at least not yet. So all of your responses will be added to my mental rolodex for when that time does come, if ever.
Thanks Jerald. I do like numbers and stats, so your method appeals more to the objective/scientist/analytical side of me.
If I had a client that met your criteria, but gut feeling still said no, I would have to go with my gut.
There have been other times when my gut was telling me one thing and my head tried to talk me into something else. Well, I've learned the hard way to always go with my gut.
Thanks again!
Gerald's list is remarkable, all those formulate the "gut" feeling I use when interviewing unknown clients. Luckily I get the vast majority of leads from previous customers who do a very good job of prequalifying for me. I've been lucky. What I emphasize no matter who refers or how good the intuition says they'll be, is the business relationship we develop. Never let them alter your draw or deposit schedule. And structure that so you're never out more than a small amount. One bad debt can wipe out a small time business.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin - "Gerald's list is remarkable, all those formulate the "gut" feeling I use when interviewing unknown clients."
Remarkable? Well I do think the list is a real good one and it works. And that's why I've used it all these years but don't give me any credit for thinking it up. I got it from some book, magazine article, or something somewhere along the line. I just can't recall who what when or where. I just wish I could give credit where the credit is due on that one.
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I was thinking the remarkable part was that you put down the things that do make a diff in my own qualifying. Never would have surmised the two great minds in the ditch thing, but hey.
3 wks till opening day.
5 months till the fest here in Ohio. You game?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I think you of all people here should know that there is no such thing as opening day in my mind's eye. I think baseball 365.25 days a year. My brother likes to say I think baseball when I'm skiing. Yeah I sure am goin to try and make the fest. I managed to miss the fest this past summer at the last minute and I'm still bummed about that.
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alright man. Then email me your address so's we can keep you abreast. And by the way, hotel bookings are getting slim what with the soccer tourney's , car races and some religious shindig. We go to a ballgame thursday nite. AAA, come see the rising stars. I should check, could be the Clippers......right up your alley. Check in the fest folder.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Talk to both the husband and the wife. I had one "Client from hell" where the Husband was fine, the "quiet wife", turned out to be the one pulling the strings and firing the arrows. And good old "gut feelings" also helps.
Renaissance Restorations
Antique & Victorian Home Restoration Services
http://www.renaissancerestorations.com
Try the furniture test...
Young couple calls us up to come out and take a look to generate a quote for a new deck. House is in a subdivision in a very pricey area.
Two six year old econo-boxes are parked in the driveway, both could use new tires. We get inside and start talking to the owners, pleasant young folks in their late 20's. They proudly give us a tour of their "new" house, they moved in six months prior to our visit. They have no furniture to speak of, with exception of a master bedroom suite (guessing it was a wedding present). 4?-year old daughter is sleeping on a mattress on the floor. Living room furniture is actually lawn furniture. House seems very empty. Six months is plenty of time to get furniture shipped or out of storage if they've got it. I never asked, just kept smiling and my gut sez they are just barely making the mortgage payments and living a razor's edge away from bankruptcy.
Daughter's sleeping on a mattress on the floor like a hippy but they're considering putting a deck onto the house? My suspicions of a small building budget aside, I didn't think it was ethical to even get involved with these two even if they came up with the scratch.
We left after making noises about putting together a real rough estimate, but never followed through and they never pursued it.
Good theories All,
My qualification process starts with the marketing. There is a way of shooing away people with a tight budget with what you say, how you say it and showing only your best work. "To arrange a Consultation-pls call".
When they call I will ask where they heard of us... normally on line. If I get that gut feeling I will ask point blank "Is budget your prime concern?" at which point I have 3 phone number of really fly by night contractors advertising less than cost of materials pricing. They deserve each other. Here's the funny part, 80% of these people who intimate that budget is a concern end up paying for a consultation with one of the contractors, and often it is over $100/hour to meet with me.
Which leads to qualification method #3, charging for consultations. If someone is a hard core shopper, they often will have me in as well-just to see the difference.
Of all the people who pay for a consultation, 70-80% end up buying if I am selling the job. The rate is usually between 50-70% for our contractors. With experience they get better.
If a client is negotiating as soon as you quote a price... pack your bag and walk away. If they are negotiating before they give you a dime, they will negotiate during and after the job. You will have no profit, so save your time and walk.
Here's a shocker. Done 5 jobs for landscape contractors, burned by 4.
Done 5 jobs for lawyers, paid in full by 5. (secret-my contract was written by the lawyers-after I did a good job and they were pleased, I asked in lieu of a tip, give me a term). Used the contract to get paid by Lawyer #5.
Lawyers are pussycats!
L
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