How do you set your electrical fees??
Been wanting to post this for a while and couldn’t get around to it at the time (one of those round wooden things).
What method do you all (electricians) use to determine a good fee to charge on small electric jobs such as a call to replace a switch, or a single outlet? I know this sounds rudimentary but I’m not so sure it is as rudimentary as one thinks.
Typically I call competitors to ask how much they charge for such and such and formulate my own competive price. For big jobs it’s easy to me. But sometimes I get some calls for some small stuff like today. I was asked today to replace an old range outlet to one of the newer 4 pronged ones for a new oven the owner purchased. Ok, no prob….new cable, new breaker (likely), new receptacle, little elbow grease…totally easy no brainer job and maybe 2hrs labor at most. So….what to charge?? Materials is easy enough, but labor?
What I’m getting at is I don’t want to be one who says, “that’ll be $150 labor (I’m exagerrating ok)” and then have the customer reel from sticker shock and say, “for an outlet and 20 feet of wire you want how much” because the customer also sees that it’s a pitifully small job as well.
Small jobs you can loose money because you could be off catching larger fish. But yet small jobs can be profitable also, I just haven’t figured out how to compute a reasonable fee without it looking like I want to rob the customer. If I go by some rule of like $50 for me to show up at the door and $30/hr (I’m pullling this out of the air ok) then does that actually make sense for small jobs? Think of the poor homeowner who has a switch short out on them. For $2 they can replace it themselves. But if they’re afraid of electricity and need a pro, we shouldn’t rob them for something so ridiculously simple, yet still get a fair price.
Replies
Why would $150(labor) be out of the question?
That's about the lowest I'd walk out the door for.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
That's a very good question. Sure it comes up in all the trades. What about the old lady who wants a piece of roof trim that's come loose reattatched. Or who needs a lightbulb changed. Or a door adjusted. I understand not wanting to waste lots of time on little bitty jobs, and wanting to get to better paying jobs. Gotta be a real balance to figure out how to do these without losing money, or being astronomically high. Maybe I'll ask some friends when I see them what they charge for small jobs (electrician and plumber).
Why not charge a fixed amount plus an hourly rate for labor and travel time? Say $20/outlet plus $30/hr. 1 hr. minimum. For me that'd mean I'd pay $50 for a switch changed ($20 fee, 10-15 min work, 10-15 min drive time).
I don't understand the $150 thing. I have a lot of specialized expertise also, and it takes me quite a bit of time to earn $150. I understand it's an inconvienence to come to my house to ply their trade, but $150? If you don't want the small jobs just tell people when they call you you're sorry but you're too busy to come over for that right now, please call someone else.
Frankly, most HO's don't have many dealings with tradespeople. If I had someone come out and replace an outlet or switch for me who was reasonable and did a good job, they'd be who I called when I put on an addition or needed something else done as well.
If I called ANYONE and they told me there's a $150 fee just to walk through your door I'd immediately say thank you, hang up and put a big X through their add in the phonebook. I would never ever call that company again for anything, nor would I be likely to walk through their door if there were ANY other choices to get something I needed.
Just my opinion, but I'd assume they were horrendously expensive for everything and weed them out of the mix for ANY work I ever needed done.
On a similar note, there was a discussion recently about how much to charge to change a lightbulb. Forget the title. $50 seemed to be a common #.
Edited 9/17/2003 7:20:19 PM ET by BILLYG83440
So sorry but we regret to inform you your reality check bounced.
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Why not charge a fixed amount plus an hourly rate for labor and travel time? Say $20/outlet plus $30/hr. 1 hr. minimum. For me that'd mean I'd pay $50 for a switch changed ($20 fee, 10-15 min work, 10-15 min drive time).
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So what would you charge a customer that rolled over the switch 5 times with paint because they where too lazy to remove it? Have an unmarked breaker box and screamed bloody murder cause you shut down the computer while trying to find the right circuit? A basement so full of trash you have to wade through it to get to the box? The call back tomorrow cause the 1 year old bulb happened to blow and they know you did something wrong? They have aluminum wire?
At $150.00 you smile and say no problem, at $50.00 you say I don't need this crap.
____________________________________________________________
If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
You may have noticed I set a small basic fee $20 to change a switch or outlet. Then added an hourly rate $30 (set by the initial poster) with a 1 hour minimum.
I also charged that rate for travel time.
So, if there are unforseen problems, it takes longer then you expected for any reason you'd be making $30, $40, or $50 depending on what hourly rate you charged. If it took you 2 hours it'd cost $80 not $50. Or if you charged $50/hr. It'd cost $120.
I'd make sure I told people up front that it often took up to 3 hours to do a little job like this, if there are any unforseen problems, so if it did cost $150 or $180 they wouldn't be too surprised.
Oh, I used to trouble shoot wiring in 80 year old national gaurd buildings, so I have a good feel for just how long a 'simple job' can take. Don't object to paying it if it isn't such a simple job (had an electrician help me track down a wiring problem with the hall light in my last house after I'd spent most of Saturday trying to figure it out). I just thought I was stupid. He'd show up, know imeadiately what was wrong, and fix it. It took me and him 5 hours to figure out what was wrong, and another hour to fix it. Decided the guy who wired it was the stupid one.<G>0
I'd still say anyone who wanted $150 upfront for what I know to be a simple job that's likely to take 20 minutes or less thanks but no thanks and hang up. Just me personally.
Billy-
"I don't understand the $150 thing. I have a lot of specialized expertise also, and it takes me quite a bit of time to earn $150."
I'm assuming your "specialized expertise" is done working for someone else? If so, you're failing to realize something, which I'll shed some light on. By "quite a bit of time", let's assume you mean 5 hours, which translates to a salary of $30/hr (just my guess here). If your company is like most, the burden of insurance, employer's contributions to taxes, sick time, vacation pay, etc., adds up to at least 50% of your salary cost, which means it costs the company $45/hr to employ you. Now, if your time is billable to clients, I'm sure the company is billing you out at an even higher rate- say $70/hr. If you aren't billable, they surely account for your $45/hr cost to them, at a minimum, whenever they need to utilize your cost in any budgeting.
Now, you call the electrician, and you tell him you have a "bad switch", which means you flip the switch on, and the light doesn't turn on. It could definitely be the switch, or it could be a bad fixture, a dropped neutral, a broken wire, or any of a host of other things. So, you expect Mr. Electrician to hop in his service van (which costs money to own and operate), drive across town "10-15 minutes" (don't know where you live, but 10-15 minutes doesn't cover a whole lotta ground here in central NJ), unpack his tools (which he paid for) warmly greet you, chat a few minutes, and wave his magic electrician's wand to change your switch in "10-15 minutes". Like Geo said, he could spend 10-15 minutes just safing off the circuit to allow him to work on it!.
In reality, the from the moment the electrician picks up the phone, figures out when he can get there, rounds up a switch if he happens to be out of them, drives to your place, diagnoses the problem, fixes the problem, waits while you complain about his charge, waits while you find the checkbook and begrudgingly write him a check for the "highway robbery" he just performed, posts the check to his accounting software, and goes to the bank, he's spent at least 2 hours on your "10-15 minute" job- and I'm being conservative.
Now, I haven't even considered (or you haven't considered) the cost of his liability insurance, workers comp, advertising, legal fees, accounting fees, and the host of other things Mr. Electrician pays for to stay in business. Knock all those items out, and he's lucky if he made $30/hr (which he still needs to pay taxes on). Oh, and God forbid he makes a PROFIT above and beyond a "fair wage"- BTW- profit is essential to staying in business, ya know...
So, if $150 seems high, pick up the local paper, call the guy who advertises in the $15/week ad section and does electrical work at night after his job at the meatpacking plant, and give him a whirl- I'm sure he's fix ya up for 20 bucks or so. And then sit and wonder if your house is going to burn down next time you flip that switch.
Sorry if I'm a bit blunt tonight- I've just been seeing too much of this lately. And if I'm wrong about you working for someone else, then I'm amazed you even made the post in the first place.
Bob
You assume too much here. I understand the costs of running a small buisiness. Including the hidden costs (insurance, taxes, SS, ect.). Managed a shift for a candy company once. It is amazing how those things add up. I do work for salary. Used to think I wanted to own my own buisiness, but after working near the top in one decided I'd rather have a life and a job, then a buisiness and no life.<G>
As I stated above. I charged for both the specific stated task, and an hourly fee which included travel time. If you drive an hour each way, you're paid for it.
In fact, a simple pricing schedule you can hand the customer would impress me.
Switch replacement $20 + $X/hr travel time is billed (1 hr. min.)
Lightbulb replacement
Outlet replacement
Light fixture replacement
Ceiling fan installation $X w/ existing fan rated box.
Ceiling fan installation $XX if installing fan rated box
Ceiling fan installation $XXX if no access to area where box is to be installed.
Tracing out circuits and labeling breaker box $X/hr.
Just an example, add in whatever hourly rate you feel is appropriate.
So if you get there and find the circuits need traced or some other problem, sell the customer that service as well. "You know it just took me 20 minutes to figure out what breaker turned off this switch." "I'd really recommend you spend the extra money to have me trace out all the circuits and label your box correctly." I understand some electricians don't like to do this as they may miss something that's wired goofy, so have them sign a paper which explains that you can't gaurantee it absolutely because the wiring is hidden in the walls.
I think I understand your points much better then you understand mine. I'd have zero problems paying someone for 3 hours work, plus an hour travel time, if that's what it takes. If you can keep busy insisting you won't walk out the door for less then $150 fine. I won't hire you (the guy wanted opinions, just thought I'd interject a non-contractor one). If you're busy this won't bother you.
I also hope it doesn't bother you when I or a friend decides to build a nice house, or finally wire the detatched garage as a workshop, and I see the big X through your ad and call your competition. Or just call the nice guy who came in, spent 20 minutes putting a new switch in and charged me $50-75 for it. Like most homeowners I rarely need this type of work done, so if I find someone I like I'm liable to use them everytime for everything. Seems to me this is an opportunity to meet people and sell your buisiness.
Still don't see how you'd lose money being paid for the task/s + an hourly rate for everything including travel time. Well, unless you set the hourly rate too low, that's another discussion entirely though.
I agree that the $30/hr charge was thrown out by the original poster- it actually scares me, since I think it's virtually impossible to bill ANYTHING at $30/hr when you own a legitimate, professional company.
That aside, think about this. You say you know that the costs of being in business are high. You also say you'd be willing to pay by the hour for the work to be done, and have no problem paying for travel time, etc. I assume you also realize that nothing gets done in 10-15 minutes at a customer's house (unless of course you ring the bell, blow straight past the homeowner, make a beeline for the panel as if you know where it is, make the repair, and grab a check as you come down the ladder).
Given all this information, why does is seem like such a shock to pay $150 for a switch replacement? I can see if you had 20 switches to replace, you wouldn't expect to pay $150 each for them (neither would I, BTW), but for one little repair?? Pay any less than that, and you'll get a guy who's making less than he would working at Home Depot- it that really the guy you want working on your electrical system?
Heck, I paid a guy $115 a few months back to snake the sewer line at my house. Now, this is definitely not rocket science, and the guy who came looked like he couldn't pass the interview to work at McDonalds. But, I realized the other option- I could go to Home Depot, spend $45 to rent a power snake, and waste 2 hours between travel back and forth, and actually snaking the drain. The guy was in and out of the house in about 25 minutes, and I was happy to pay him to avoid getting sh** on my hands. So, would I pay $150 for a switch to be changed if I wasn't capable or willing to do it? In a heartbeat- and I'd sleep better at night knowing it was done right. And, I'd call the guy back for any big jobs, knowing full well that the cost would be lower as the amount of work increased.
One last point- if you called the first electrician, and he quoted you $150 and you hung up on him, how much time would you be willing to waste calling more electricians, leaving messages, waiting for callbacks, and waiting for missed appointments, before you realized that the $150 wasn't so bad after all. My thought would be not too long, assuming you value your own time at all.
Bob
Well, honestly, the $30/hr seemed low for an electrician. That's why I tossed in $20 for the $.39 switch, and set a 1 hour minimum charge.
You're right that most of the time it's likely to take 15minutes or more just to get in, talk to them about what the problem is, and find the panel. I'd be billing time from when I got in my truck till I got done, so no problem. As long as the customer understands that's how I bill. I'd be surprised if it took over an hour total, but I live about 5 minutes from both an electrical supply, and plumbing supply store. 2 hours tops w/ travel time.
Not sure your power snake example fits too well. Replacing a switch shouldn't require anything anyone would need to rent. Likely you'll have the parts in your truck or you can pick them off the shelf on your way out the door. Ect.. I expect to pay more for jobs that require special parts or equipment to do. We're talking putting in a lightbulb or a switch or outlet, not complex jobs.
Actually the first poster had an example of a fairly complex job (replacing wire, putting in a new 4 wire 220 outlet). Not what most people would consider a 'simple' job. Fairly simple in unfinished walls. Not simple if the walls are finished.
As far as how much time I'd be willing to 'waste' calling electricians. I don't see it as wasting time. I'm looking for a pro I can work with, one I may work with many times over many years, if I have to spend a couple hours looking it's time well spent. Someone who gives me a pricing schedule and explains they charge $X/hour which includes travel time, and says these jobs usually cost about $X, comes off as a pro. Someone who just says that'll be $150 doesn't seem like he wants to be bothered unless he's gauranteed to make lots of money. Could be wrong, but that'd turn me off. I'd assume he's too busy to want to bother with little jobs, which is what the person in this example is most likely to need done in the future, so why bother with them.
It's easy to find someone willing to wire an entire house. It's hard to find someone who'll come out and fix a minor problem, move a switch, ect.. Even if you do find such a person, if they're gonna gig you for $150 each time they walk through the door, you're not gonna be able to afford to do much of this type of stuff.
Again, next time I see my electrician friend I'll ask him what they charge for little jobs. You'll have got me curious.
The rental for the snake was for me to rent it- the same amount of time I'd spend going to get a switch if I was going to replace it myself (though the return trip wouldn't be required).
If I'm reading you correctly, it's a matter of how the electrician presented himself on the phone then, not the cost. If he explained "well, for me to come over and evaluate the problem, and make the corrections necessary, assuming it is just a switch, our charge would be the company minimum of $150, which includes travel time and the first hour of work", would the $150 charge then have been acceptable? If so, you didn't convey that at the beginning.
I could fully understand you being upset if the guy picked up the phone, groaned when you told him how small the job was, and replied with "aaahhhh....I get I could make it out there- but it's gonna cost ya a buck-fifty minimum". Then it's an attitude problem, not a monetary problem.
Bob
I guess I need to take a communications class.<G>
I think some of the confusion is in the set-price vs. a variable price.
I'm more comfortable paying by the hour. Someone mentioned it'd suck if they ran into unforseen problems on a $50 job, no big deal if it's a $150 job. Well, if I'm just the guy who's light quits working, you come out, find the wire is loose at the switch and are in and out in 20 minutes, I don't wish to pay for the job that has lots of unforseen problems if it's not in my house. If there are major unknown problems I want to know about them and would expect to pay to have them fixed.
But, isn't a set-price job a minimum? It's gonna cost you $150, but if you come out and find 5 hours worth of problems then what's it gonna cost?? You're certainly not gonna spend 5hrs plus a trip to the store to fix it and still charge me $150 are you? I have no idea, no way to budget that. If I know it's $50/hour and you get into it a little bit and then say, "whoa there's some problems here it's gonna take about 5 hours to fix this." I can just say go ahead if you've got time now, or let's reschedule, because I know what it's gonna cost me. Nothing scares me more then getting work done w/o an estimate. Got charged about $150-$200 labor once to put in a starter because I forgot to ask. About double to triple the normal rate around here.
A $150 minimum for the first hour seems high, but I'd assume the hour is once you arrive. Now, if you're in a city where it's likely you'll spend an hour or more on travel time that's probably reasonable. Seems like a location thing. Anyone paying to operate in LA probably couldn't afford to walk out the door for $150. So as a minimum, it's locational in Idaho I'd say no, in LA I might think WOW, that's cheap.
For whoever said they tell people they charge $45/hr. 3 hour minimum fine. I may not wish to pay that just to change out a switch, but I may then say, well let's schedule for next week, and you can install a ceiling fan or some light fixtures I've been meaning to buy while you're here. And, there's a switch I was thinking of having moved. Maybe you can look at that if you have time. By now you're probably going Oh Crap! But, hey I'm a cheapskate, if I'm paying you for 3 hours time I might as well use it.<G>
I think the line that you wrote about rather having a job and a life than a business and no life sums it all up. You cant have a business and a life unless you charge enough. Took me years to figure that one out.
OK ..I'll level with ya ....I have left the house for less than $150 .....
$135 to be exact.....but I picked $150 because it was mentioned already ....
When I have time to do small repairs ...... I state from the get go that I charge $45/hr ...with a 3 hour minimum. That's $135. That's the absolutely lowest I'll wake up early for and skip spending the day with my kid.
I also have a minimum "fee" of $45 for a materials run. That's added on top of the $135.
So the "typical" handyman job for me starts at $180 .....plus the cost of materials.
I "usually" don't charge a mark up the handyman/repair job materials .... as the mark up would just add up to a coupla bucks.
I have customers than know these rates and happily pay to have a professional do the work in their homes...
And I have non-customers that say that's way too much....
Which is just the way I like it!
But to the contrary of your line of thinking ...I don't hate handyman jobs ...I don't like them, but I don't avoid them ...as I've found that realistic customers that realize a good/honest/reputable carpenter costs right around $45/hr ....also tend to be better leads when they are looking to do a larger project ....and they seem to understand if I'll build their entire addition at .......$45/hr .......per man .......I'm worth $45/hr for hanging towel bars in the guest bath.
Does my 3 hrs min ...stated as such ......still offend ya?
If so ....good. I'm in business...not nonprofit service. A realistic customer wants their contractor to still be in biz the next time they need them.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
If I may interject.....
You used the word "fair" when describing how to determine what you should charge for your services. "Fair" has no bearing on pricing, as everyone's definition of it is different. Using your $150 example, if you had two customers call for the same repair, and you quoted them both the same $150, one may find it completely "fair" and tell you to come right over, while the other may think your price was outrageous, and hang up the phone (as someone already mentioned). The reason for this is that the second customer doesn't value your time as highly as you do.
Don't base your pricing on how much your competitiors charge, what customers think is "fair", or anything else except your costs of doing business. Figure out how much you'd like to make during the course of a year, add your insurance, truck costs, tools, licenses, etc., and divide that by the number of billable hours you want to work during the year. THAT is your hourly rate.
Now, figure out the amount of time required to handle the phone call, schedule the job, pick up materials, do the work, and invoice the customer, and that's your price. The customer may think it's "fair" or not- that's not your problem. There's always someone willing to work cheaper than you are- if a customer's willing to risk having their house burnt down by an electrician working for McDonalds wages, that's their problem- not yours. And trust me- I run across contractors all the time who would make better wages working at Home Depot- that's not my problem either.
Like Jeff, I don't step out of the house for less than $150, and usually shoot for much more than that. But that doesn't mean you have to- you may be happy making (and able to pay your bills making) $25k/year, $40k/year or whatever. Figure out what you need to make and charge accordingly. Of course, if you need to make $250k/year, and you expect to make that working 15 hours a week in rural Alabama, you've got a problem.....lol.
My two cent rant,
Bob
That's a pretty good rant. I liked that.
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ParadigmProjects.com | Paradigm-360.com | Mac4Construction.com
Some things just get me going, ya know? lol
Edited 9/17/2003 8:38:05 PM ET by BobKovacs
Pyroman,
There was a similar post not too long ago and I'll reply to you the same way: You need to charge what the "going rate" for the particular job. I know the small ones are hard to get a going rate on, but you've done enough other electrical jobs (I assume) that you can take a pretty good stab at it.
Forget the fact that materials are proportionaly low. When I do commercial cabinet jobs like doctors offices the margin is way high, but I'm not going to sell myself short just because I can. I know for fact that if I don't do the job someone else will come up right behind me and do it for the "going rate"
Hey, if you're still confused, tell the HO that you'll work T&M. Be sure to add at least 15-20% to the actual material costs and charge somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-$65 per hour labor (California). Do a good honest job and both you and the HO will feel good about it in the end.
Jim-
Careful talking about "going rates". I know in your case you weer talking about charging "more than you have to, because you can", but that can work the opposite if it's read wrong. Don't let your "competition" set your pricing- just because you call another electrician, and he's willing to do a job for "X", you don't want to do it for "X" if "X" doesn't cover your costs of doing the job. Many contractors are afraid to ask for what they really need to run their businesses profitably- they feel they can't raise their rates to the proper level and be "competitive". Well, if you try and try, and it truly is the case (which it probably won't be unless your business model is way out of whack), theyn you've got to re-evaluate your business model. Other than that, charge what YOU need to charge- not what someone else sets as "the going rate".
Bob
just finished reading david gerstel's book "running a successful construction company", so now i'm an expert. what david says in his book, and he has run the numbers, is that small jobs are less profitable than medium to big jobs.
to be fair to yourself as a businessman you have to go through the steps as outlined in the book, or a similar system, and run the numbers to arrive at a fair price. all that going through the steps and running the numbers is also a chargeable service that contractors and sub-contractors need to figure in the cost of doing business. that cost remains the same despite size of job, as well as many other overhead costs if you are a responsible contractor.
as outlined in davids book i would have no problem printing out a copy of factored in costs of doing business overhead for a small job to present to a homeowner (in effect opening the books) to let them know that ya, it is a shock to see a bill that high, but that is what it costs me to be out here and take your call and come to your house and fix your outlet, i am not getting rich here, just making a good living for an honest days work.
i have over 1000 hours of training, upgrading, studying, and taking classes specifically to improve my skills at my profession, within the last 10 years. thats over 100 hours a year so that when you call me you get the best service i can provide, and this too needs to be charged for. now if i can just get paid to post here,lol.
This is a good question. I see at least two sides to it, maybe more, but I'm only gonna stick my neck out twice.
1) Bob--don't take this personally, it's not meant that way at all. But I maintain about some (notice the emphasis) electrical jobs that, as you stated about the plumber who snaked out your drain, 'it's not rocket science.' And there is certainly a market for a competent handyman type who can change out a switch or a faucet--or snake out your drain. A guy like this has an illegetimate professional business, illegitimate to most because he doesn't have any licenses, but professional just the same if he delivers a quality job on time and for a reasonable price. The nice little old lady that doesn't know why her washing machine won't work has a few choices to her--all of them limited by her income. If she has to call the manufacturer's authorized repairman, he's going to charge damn near your hourly rate and a service call fee just to show up. But if she can call Joe Fix It and he arrives and finds out the drive belt is loose, and owns the correct socket wrenches and an 18-inch pry bar, she can be back in business for $25 or $50, and Joe is happy as a clam BECAUSE HE DOES EIGHT OR TEN OF THESE CALLS A DAY, and that's how he makes his living. Wheras the official appliance guy really wants to bring the machine back into his shop for a $2-300 overhaul and get paid by Sears or whoever under the guarantee....
2. I used to make a fairly large portion of my annual doing small repair jobs. I was fixing a stove that wouldn't light up when the planes hit the world trade center a couple of years back. (It wasn't the stove: the electrician who wired the breaker box--and I know who it was and he has a license but he's a disgrace to it--didn't leave enough slack in one of the hot leads and it popped out of the breaker.)
But each year, I have less and less time for those jobs; my reputation is growing and so are my skills and tool-load. So now I only do that sort of work for regular customers that I know are going to call with a roof or an addition or a bath or a basement or whatever. But if I do go out, I charge a minimum 3 hours, plus materials, plus markup on the materials, even though, as someone pointed out (Jeff, I think), that markup only comes to a buck or three. My regulars know this. They also know that if they call me at 2am to say a tree just came through their window or a pipe just busted, I'll jump into my jeans and my truck and shag it over their pad to do what I can--and it's $200 bucks just for me to get out of bed, whether I can solve or only partially alleviate the problem.
There's no point, I think, in getting bent about people that handle the lower end of all of our expertises for lower rates. If I need to jack up the corner of a deck to change out a rotted post, I don't need to haul out my 20-ton house jack. My 2¼-ton will do it just fine. If Old Mrs. Jones needs a plug replaced because the builder or some DIY former HO put in .39 Eagles instead of spec quality Hubbels, she doesn't need you at whatever it is you need to keep your operation running--she needs a competent handyman who'll charge her $25 or $50 and be happy to get it. If you got a call for every job like that because there were no handymen and no competent DIYers, it'd drive you crazy. You'd never have time to do anything else. Be glad they're there. Just like you were glad drain-snake guy was there.
So--to answer the question posed by the original poster: if you're operating as a handyman, you need to have a rate scale that reflects that. If you're operating as an electrician, you need to decide how much you need to break even (for the good will) or make a profit, if you've got the time to do the job, and charge a flat minimum, plus as necessary. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the name of a good handyman you can recommend in good conscience for those times you can't or don't want to take those little jobs yourself. If you give somebody a reference like that, they'll remember you when it's time to haul out the 20-ton jack....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
This entire thread should be required reading for any contractor wanting to know the benifits of qualifying a customer. $150 will shake out those who aren't going to pay if that real simple job that is only going to take a few minutes is nothing like they imagine. These are also typically the same customers that keep track of how many times you go back and forth to the truck to get tools and supplies.Or wonder how much that steaming cup of coffee cost them while you where at the supply house. Sorry but I for one don't need them.
I charge a $90.00 minimum just to show up. For that I'll fix the problem ( if small) or give you an estimate, the $90.00 comes off the price if they go for the job. But either way I'm leaving with cash or a check for $90.00.
____________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
Dino-
Not the least bit of offense taken. I agree wholeheartedly that there's a market for the handyman- a big one at that- and that there will always be folks willing to work at far lower rates than I will.
I think the main thrust of my posts is that if you call a licensed electrician, who you found from an ad in the phone book (which costs $$ to place, as you know), how can you really be shocked that he's going to charge $150 for a service call? Like you said- the appliance repair man gets $75-100 just to knock on the door, and the clock then starts ticking.
There's definitely a large group of people of limited means, and for many of them, the unlicensed handyman is all they can afford. Now, if I called said unlicensed handyman from a $15 ad in the paper, I'd be a bit taken aback if he was going to charge me $150 for electrical work that he's "legally" not supposed to even be doing.
I have the utmost appreciation for all the grief you all go through on a daily basis- been there, done that- every once in a while, I even get a twisted notion that I might go back into the field....lol. I just hate to see some of the guys here get mis-guided into pricing their work incorrectly, for any of a number of reasons (ignorance, bad guidance, following the "going rate", etc.).
Bob
One other comment. I don't think it's so much a matter of the handyman being 'willing' to work for less than you; I think it's probably more that he's able to work for less than you, because he doesn't have your kind of overhead to deal with.
It's not impossible that a good professional handyman could net the same as you at the end of the day. He doesn't need a $1500 Greenlee box full of Klein tools and chassis punches and conduit benders and 100' snakes, and he doesn't need to keep a few thousand meters each of 7 different gauges of NMD, NMWD, and so forth, nor 16 different types of breakers to fit every box he might run into. He doesn't need a $35,000 van with two or three $500 ladders on the roof, and he doesn't need a cherry-picker basket on his other truck, either.
What he needs is a decent set of hand tools to take care of light electric, plumbing, and carpentry, and a few odds and ends like 39-cent plugs and switches and 22-cent copper T's and 90s and a washer assortment.
And what he needs above all, is your name and phone number, so he can refer the customer to you when the job goes over his head--just like you need his name when the job comes in under your radar....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Couldn't agree more.
Well now you guys have stumbled into my world, and I am glad for the company. I hope that I can add some insights from another side of the coin. First of all, the customers seem to vary significantly in how they react to prices. Some folk just have a better insight into what it takes to survive in business. Some people don't want to admit that average old me gets to charge two or three times an hour what they make at their jobs. Then I ask what they pay for health insurance, liability, taxes and bookeeping. How many paid holidays, and vacation? Of coarse we get none of these, unless we charge for them.
About tools, what makes you think that my wide variety of equipment cost a lot less than your specialty tools? My truck is a smaller one, but only because I empty it nightly, and reload for the next job in the morning. I have a good start on the tools for most trades, and a few that only a junky like me would have. Insurance still costs a bunch, and the only real savings over a "Legitamate Business" is that I don't have to buy the license. Gas is still 2.03 at the costco store, and my taxes are the same as yours.
The reason that I am willing to work for less, it's all the public is willing to pay for my work so far, but Sonny has been helping me with that, and thing s will get better. Right now it is hourly at 40$, and they pay for the materials. NO it is not cheap to the customers, but as many of you have pointed out, it probably is not enough either.
So my question to the original poster, is that high enough to make you call the "real" tradesman, or do I have a chance for your business? Great discussion from all of you, THANKS
Dan
first ...to Dan,
Is there a "Handyman Connection" in your area? If so ......here's the scoop with them ....they charge $50/hr(think it's the same everywhere) and "bracket" the time frame guesstimates.....so a 2 hr job would be quoted at "anywhere from 1 to 3 hours, so the cost would be from $50 to $150, plus the cost of materials". They don't charge a mark up on materials, just hand back the change and repciept to the customer.
That might help ya justify upping the rates by $10/per .....if they're your biggest competition.
To everyone else....here's a heart warming story a co-worker told my wife.....Sue needed a few more recepticals added at her kitchen counter. So ....she called a handyman add in the Pennysaver ...said licensed and insured ......carp's aren't licensed here...only electricians and plumbers.....
So ..the guy shows up. She tells him what she needs ..points out where she'd like the outlets .....he says "that'll be about $150" ....she's thrilled....she leaves for work.
Comes home that nite to find an invoice for $150 ...and ......a multi-outlet adaptor plugged into one outlet ..and the cord strung across the top of the back splash!
Said he didn't even bother to tack or tape the cod out of the way ...just drapped in loose!
Next day he called to ask if he could pick up his check ....she said to come back and pick up your extension cord!
He did .......then called back a few days later asking where his money was!
I told her to say the electrical inspector is holding it!
Thought I'd add that "wiring tip"!
At least it wasn't a fire hazzard.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
"Comes home that nite to find an invoice for $150 ...and ......a multi-outlet adaptor plugged into one outlet ..and the cord strung across the top of the back splash!"
Amazing. Do you think he's had people pay him that kind of money for that kind of work???
He should count his blessings that he didn't decide to knock on your door when you were home and ask "Where's my money?"
I'd like to see a film of that!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
I know .....can U believe that?
Sounds like it's worked at least once before.....either that ...or the guys way too dumb ...or has really big balls!
It's only funny because they didn't pay, ya know.
But still ...gotta love a good scam!
Their plan was to just ignore his messages ..... not sure if they followed thru with the "Inspector has yer check" bit .....which I thought would be equally funny.
Then again .....he should pass the inspection!
I think the guy came from a referal to boot!
Someone was happy with his work.
Take all kinds.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite