We have a customer who wants to convert a chicken coop into living quarters. The building has been used for storage for many years but is near the pool which has inspired the owner to imagine the building as a cabana/guest quarters. The foundation is stone is slight disrepair but holding the building fairly true. The inside is filled with junk, has a floor that is very flexible, minimal 6-7′ headroom, and very low windows on one side. There is no power, water or septic hook up, though these could be run from the main house. After looking at the building we suggested that we tear down the existing building and rebuild on a new foundation, remedying the shortcomings but preserving the look of the building, all for $90k+. This would have been fairly comparable to saving the existing structure while correcting the problems. The owner gagged at the price. He now wants us to make the absolute minimum changes necessary to make the building habitable. We are not interested in this scaled back project mainly because we think that it is just a bad idea.
Unfortunately this customer has given us at least $100k work in the past on his house and is also instrumental in work for another customer worth ten times this amount. How do we tell him no? Or do we just hold our noses and do the best that we can?
Replies
how about...
I'm sorry Jeff, but you've been too good a customer to us. I can't be responsible for throwing your hard earned money away.
This job is gonna be one headache after the next and you're gonna absolutely hate any contractor that agrees to try and do the impossible. And I just don't want to be the guy you're mad at when it all fails miserably.
I value your good impression of my company too much to risk damaging our good relationship on an ill advised project.
Or words to that effect....
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Maybe ask the owner to have an archy draw a set of plans, and let them debate what is and isn't necessary. Once the plans are complete and approved, you can givce a pretty firm bid.
Do it right, or do it twice.
I like both Jeff's and ELK's advice. Use Jeff's angle first......doesn't cost ya nothing but time.
Next, eat a little time writing up a comp of the two approaches, rehab and tear down - built new. Like you said, he's worth it. Either way, it's gonna cost him serious bread. Let the numbers convince him.
And then consider figuring out a third approach / concept. Like a very rough finish. Rustic...kinda chicken coop post modern. .....Could be, well, an adventure. Hope it pays for you.
where are you located? is it possible to do it in phases over time or is it a tight schedule? are there apprentice's in your employ that ever do side jobs? is there a way to perhaps oversee some less critical parts of the job and sub it out? is there any material that would be valueable if resawn? when life gives you lemons, make lemonade! my family's farm has several chicken coops from the 20's or early 30's that are used for various purposes. beautiful redwood and some nice fir too. can't buy wood like that anymore.
Thanks to all for your input. Fortunately my brother is the one to have to work this one out. If we do it, I am sure we will go with the third concept, the rustic finish. The really frustrating part of this is that there is an old barn 150 ft away that has a new foundation, good roof and structure and plenty of room for expansion. We won't do anything that we can't stand behind, but we will listen to this guy and do what he wants. Unless we can persuade his wife to listen to us. Thanks again.
Agree to do it his way.
then do it your way
forge his and his wifes name on some change-orders.
spend a pile of his money and sue him for whatever he doesn't pay.
get a good scumbag lawyer and you can end up owning his house and having him work for you for the next ten years.
while your there, steal his car too!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Having a bad morning are we?View Image
My informative to wiseass post ratio was getting to high.Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
U have informative posts?
Ahhh ha ha!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Touche' mon ami!!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
I will not touch yer "ami"......no matter how fancy ya ask!
wait.....unless "Ami" is yer french girlfriend....
then....yeah......probably.
Thanks.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Could you even get a permit for this work? Sounds like headroom and floor joists (at least) are not up to code. Maybe that would help him reconsider.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I would go with Al's advise, pick apart the code issues. Maybe tell the homeowner the foundation needs to be verified. There is a good chance the foundation is inadequet and if the joists are sagging, they need to be replaced too. Now its cheaper to start all over.
WAHD
definately cheaper to start over, in my area of northern california it is illegal to tear down old out buildings. you can neglect them till they fall down and then clean up and some people "help" this by by removing shingles so structure deteriorates faster. i understand this is to preserve the agricultural feel of the area, and all the old chicken barns do look pretty cool. you can almost always build something new faster than a retrofit, less time=less labor=less money, but if you can't tear it down and its appearance is offensive.........
"We are not interested in this scaled back project mainly because we think that it is just a bad idea."
If you don't want to do the work, and this is really the reason, level with the guy. Tell him straight out.
Of course, if you'd rather be doing another job instead, and this just seems like more trouble than it's worth right now because you're busy, then maybe you should level with yourself first about why you don't want to do the job the way he wants it done, THEN level with him.
Either way, honesty is the best policy. I've refused to use certain products, or do things that lowered my professional standards, a few times over the years, and I'm always glad later. In fact, I can't remember it ever causing problems. There are so many people out there making half assed excuses for this and that, that most people appreciate the truth when they hear it - if they don't, I don't want to work with them anyway. Life's too short.
Level with the guy.