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I find triming the shims used during door hanging to be a frustrating and slow job. How do you do it?
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I score them with a sharp utility knife and snap them off. No sweat. I've heard of guys maiking their own shims from endgrain material, that will snap off clean without scoring, makes sense, but I've never tried it.
*I use on of those Vaughn pull saws(ala Japanese thingamabobs) I figured I'm the only one to do it this way. It's real fast I use one of those Vaughn pull saws(ala Japanese thingamabobs) It is fast, really clean, and doesn't leave any tips to push the casing out when I forget them. Crew call it the SHOGUN saw. I figure I'm the only one who DOESN"T use a stanley knife .
*Sawzall with a short fine tooth blade. Cut slow. Bend the blade into the wall so as not to scar the 1/4" revel area. I use a short blade to hide the scar in the rock behind the casing. You'll need more than one nail in the shims to keep it from see-sawing on you.That's one way.Believe it or not, for a 1 3/8" x 6'8" hollow core pre hung, we used to hang them by the casing with no shims at all. Not even behind the strike plate. No one ever called back and said they fell down or anything. But that was almost 30 years ago in the apartment complex game. As far as I know, they are still renting all those apartments. Sound kinda slipshot, but what do you expect for 18 cents a foot?Ed.
*For prehung split jambs a sharp razor knife. Takes about 30 seconds for an average 20 doors, 10 minutes is less time then it take to break the doors down. And whats up with the strip on the bottom of double doors? Suppliers in this area use cement coated staples to hold it. It takes longer to get that piece off then hang the door.
*I try to avoid nailing through shims. Then I can fine tune the reveals by ajusting the shims and don't have to fight the nails. I nail JUST below the shims so they won't fall down as I hang the door.I guess a lot of guys hang doors without shims. I was really surprised last time this came up.
*Tex,You don't nail at the shim?Wow....first time I heard that one.This site is a river of ideas.Ed.
*we use shingles for our shims.. and make sure the butts are behind the jambs.. so only the tips are sticking out into "trim territory"then two swipes with a utility knife....if a newbie leaves a butt out.. he gets to trim it...still doesn't take much time though...
*I use a hand-saw-sized drywall saw with the blade reversed. They come with a wood or plastic handle with three screws holding the blade to the handle. It takes a little grinding on the blade to get it to fit the handle but the hole pattern does line up. Reversing the handle allows me to get in close, sort of like reversing the blade on a Sawsall. The teeth are very coarse and with some care and practice it can cut very fast. I find that I get good control using a second hand on the back of the blade. That also gets the other hand out of harms way. A sharp blade and a light touch does the trick, you know...let the saw do the work.I use the same saw to cut back the drywall that typically hangs into the opening so the reverse handle allows me to get right down to the floor. This saw takes quite a beating especially when cleaning up openings but a tune-up sharpening by eye with a triangular file helps a lot.
*Yeah, well, I'm not sure how smart it is Ed., but you know how when you're done and you close the door and check your reveals that last time before cutting your shims and moving on to the next door? Well, seems like as often as not, I want to make just a little ajustment. It's no problem if you want to close the gap, just tap the thick end of one of the shims in, right? But when you want to open the reveal just a touch wider, and try to tap the thin end of the shim back out, and there's nails through 'em, well they always want to break off because the nails are fighting me. So one day I says to myself - "hey, dumb-ass, why do you nail through those shims, anyway?" (you know, kind of like when you realized the plumber has to put his valve right in the middle of the tub, but you could start your layout so your studs (and joists) avoided the center, and you could stop mumbling to yourself about that frikkin' plumber after all these years of wondering why they hack the crap out of your framing)So anyways, I decided to TRY to remember to nail just below all shims, allowing for later ajustment. Seems to work out pretty well. Although, I've got to say, more often than not I still grab the gun and put it right up there to nail through 'em. Old habits die hard.
*Same here, Jim. Now I don't hang nearly as many doors as you guys do but I nail below them too-especially when hand nailing or when the studs may be a little twisted. It seems I always have to make an adjustment so it's easier for me this way.
*Tex,That makes sence. But I'd like to see a nail in the shims before the casing goes on so they don't move after the fact.But I'm not sure what difference that would make.Ed.
*yep Jim that is one ofthe tricks that my uncle told me about .Haven'[t tried the end grain shims yet.
*To the main question: Score and snap with a utility knife.I think end-grain would work if you were using a nail gun, but I figure they'd break apart if you were hand nailing.Still, scoring and snapping is pretty fast, so I've never bothered to investigate the end grain shims.
*Here's what I do.I like the little bundles of shims that are maybe 1-1/2 inch wide. I cut the entire bundle at the chop saw into four equal parts, just under 4 inche increments. Put them in a box on end, and with a little practice you can pick the shims that will give you the proper combination efficiently, with no trimming. Using this method I routinely hang 5 or 6 doors per hour.I nail through the shim, and shame on the no shimmers.
*Folks:Trimming with razorknife usually works, but can be a pain if using more than 1/4" of shims. Thats when I use one of those fancy-ass saws they sell at Lee Valley to all the "gentleman carpenters". Did try making my own end-grain shims (after thinking about it for years) and they actually work! Don't split, slide together nicely, and real easy to break off after the fact. Been nailing under the shims for along time (when I remember to) and always do the final tweaking as the casing is being nailed on (first nail to the jamb, then push/pull as you're nailing to the wall. One question though- how come everyone on this site cares so much about their craft, but most of the guys I run into on the job don't seem to give a **** about their work?Just wonderin'Andy
*Andy, It is like that most places you work . Here you have maybe less than 1% of the carps. sparkies, plumbers, masons ,etc ,and they want to do fine homebuilding . I think the people here think of it as a kraft and not just a job .
*Andy, it's what seperates us. I have a few guys working for me that never think about what they do except when they are with me doing it. No real interest except making me happy and getting a check on Friday. When I tell them the fun I have in here hacking on someone for this or that, they look at me like I'm from Mars. The guys in here, do what we do cause we love it. We read the mags, attend the shows, hunt for the obscure tip or technique because we love what we do. If you love what you do then making real good money at it is easy.(if you don't make enough money then you probably have an addiction to something, I've got a tool problem and I'm currently in a 12 step program for it) Then there are the times we go nuts and flame each other to death....ahh the good times.
*O.K., so you are all telling me we (in here on these forums) are in the minority, and most trades don't care about their work as much as we do. Fair enough. What do you do then to motivate an employee, or more importantly, a sub-contractor to raise the level of his/her work? I usually try to point it out once or twice, but then end up fixing it up myself after they are done. Not necessarily the best way to deal with it, I'm sure, but it keeps the overall quality of a project up.Trying to keep the bar raised...Andy
*Andy, part of getting your subs to raise their standards is to let them know exactly what you expect from them. If they can't deliver the quality that you demand, ask them why. If they are not charging enough to take the extra time needed to meet your standards, raise their prices for them. Make it attractive to your employees and subs to do the best job they can day in and day out. If you continue to have problems with them, send them down the road and hire others that are willing to do higher quality work.FWIW, I use a utility knife to score shims , then snap them off.
*I nail below the shims also, but I put the nails in first, close the door and pry the jamb into position with a flat bar (the nails hold it there).....then set the shims.....cut em with a knife and put on the casing.
*I use a utility knife, score and snap. When I remember I nail below the shim. Use a Japanese saw for butts sticking out, but only if the shim is nailed.
*I save pieces of clapboards from siding jobs,cut them 3 inches wide and place two of them opposed behind the jambs in six places.There is nothing to cut off.
*Dont think I've ever used a nail in a door jamb. I've always used finish screws under the shim "shingles" then score em' with my knife and snap the buggers. I also save the snapped ends for the bigger spaces. Screws allow you to be more exact pulling the jamb in and out a bit. And the nails or screws go under the shims so you can re-adjust if necessary by pulling the shims in or out. I saw these new screws advertised in FH that look interesting. MAde just for doors...allows you to do fine adjustments. I think theyre more for very heavy doors but I'd like to try em in spite of the cost.
*I use cut shingles scraps and cedar shims. I only have one shim to trim this way with a knife.Trim screws under shims.But I have never hung 6 doors an hour. Guess Im leaving money on the table satisfying myself.
*Andy,How do you deal withall those screw heads? You're the first guy I've ever heard of who screws door jambs. I could see it on a heavy paint-grade door, but with stain grade (most of mine) I don't get it at all.??MD
*MD,I'm with Andy on the screws. I use a countersink bit beforehand. Score and snap the shims hard, the screws don't budge.
*No shims.I remove the stops, screw through the jambs to set the reveal, then foam between r.o. and jamb. Any excess foam can be sliced off a couple hours later. Then i remove the screws and renail the stops. I use extra long screws through the hinges and even that doesn't depress the foam. I try to set three doors at a time, about right for a can of foam, and i can use what's left, if any, for the headers. It's not production, but it sure is fine. Try it and see if you don't like how solid it feels when you close the door. It also depresses sound transmission between rooms.Sometimes the wheel needs re-inventing.
*whatever's closest... utility knife, skilsaw, chisel, teeth, sawzall - whoo-hoo!
*I manage to cut myself when using a knife in one hand and the other hand to snap off the ends of the shims. Dozuki Razor Saw works really well for this, and is handy for trimming jambs if needed.JAM
*s.g:I was waiting for someone to suggest the "foam method". A friend of mine out in B.C. told me about it. I've never tried it, I can't seem to even look at can of that foam without getting it in my hair, on the new hardwood,on the carpet...CheersAndy
*Foam method works great. I like the Hilti stuff. Doesn't press hard. Use it around window jamb extensions and every little or big hole.
*I like to gnaw them off!!
*Stihl 024 Wood Boss with fresh chain......utility knives and dozukis, sheeshsissies