A little over a year ago we did a bathroom remodel. New vinyl floor, tub, surround, re-use newer tub doors, tub faucet, install a modified drain system so they could move the washer dryer upstairs, rebuild the floor under the existing toilet and a new lav faucet.
House was filthy in capital letters but we agreed so we got it done. One issue that was brought to our attention was the fact the bathroom leaked to the living room downstairs where there is a dropped hung ceiling.
We made a point of laying the floor first so the tub went on the vinyl to act as a leak barrier of sorts since we could find no leaks in the plumbing we assumed they were allowing water to build up outside of the tub. We also warned them of this fact that if water is allowed to build up outside of the tub it will find a way downstairs.
In the process of the remodel we made a mistake of shooting staples used during the subfloor install into the water line. We repaired the leak and went on but on two other occasions when the staples rusted through we had drip leaks so after the second call I told my guy to remove the entire water line and replace it. I then sent the owner a gift certificate for a restraunt and an apology letter. A couple of months later they had the drain cleaned in this room and the drain cleaner broke the drain which we fixed no charge as a courtesy. Not a big deal but we did it anyway.
Since then they have called almost monthly saying they still have a leak. We go there and spray, look, cut out and recaulk but can’t get it to leak. Not once. Each time neither home owner is available just the mother in law. After the sixth call I told them that we have never been able to find a leak and I would only come out one more time so they needed to be sure that they had an idea of where the leak was.
This time the mother in law said they thought it was coming from around the tub spout. We didn’t thinks so but caulked it as they requested. We then capped the shower head and pressurized the shower, no leak. Sprayed down the whole tub area. No leak. Sprayed the shower doors. No leak. Sprayed the entire area in an upward motion. No leak. Checked the drain system. No leak. The mother in law says this only occures when the daughter in law showers.
They just called again. I am thinking that I will send them a letter saying we have honored our commitment of a 1 year warranty and unless they can show us a leak that we simply can not afford to come back. We really believe that this woman is somehow allowing water on the floor and it is leaching down under the tub. I think we have done our do dilegence and need to write it off. I always warranty stuff longer than a year if it comes up but when you can’t find the leak how far do you go? What do you guys think? DanT
Replies
Refer back to , "Do we all make the same ?"
Tim
Edited 5/19/2005 4:32 pm ET by TIMMOONEY52
You built it, so you probably need to do whatever it takes to get it to stop leaking. Particularly since you have already demonstrated to the homeowner that you can create leaks.
Find a time -- insist if needed -- when you can be in the house while the daughter-in-law uses the shower. Agree to go there at 5 in the morning if that's what it takes.
Before the shower begins, be certain that you have visual access to the underside of the tub at the wet end. If needed, pull out some drywall ceiling and/or a small section of the wall behind the valve assembly. Tell the homeowner that you will fox the drywall for free IF the problem is something that you did.
Then find that leak.
I know that what I am telling you is a huge pain in the neck. But your reputation as a builder/craftsman is on the line, and you need to correct whatever is wrong.
I did all of these things about three years ago. The most frustrating part of my situation is that I had only made $75 on the original job -- re-caulking around the tub and surround.
But here's the good news on mine: We found that the teenage son was showering with the sliding glass doors not quite closed all the way -- he had a habit of putting a shampoo bottle there. And when the homeowners realized it was their problem, they had me fix all of the drywall, without asking what my price would be.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Are they sliding shower doors? maybe she closes them backwards so the water has an easy way out.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Dan ...
I know U said "shower door" ... but this one brought back memories.
BAck when we were doing rental rehabs ... did a full bath remodel.
Same deal as yours.
Got a call back ... leaking into the kitchen ceiling.
Check ... everything looks fine. Fill ... squirt ... spray. Even took my boots off and filled the tub to see if there was any flex in the new tub/plumbing. No leaks.
One week later ... same deal. No leaks.
Following week ... another call.
I can't make that one ... my Dad goes himself. First thing in the morning.
See's their shower curtain on the outside of the tub.
Then .. for the first time ... see's their daughter ... all 300 lbs of her.
Says ... leaver yer clothes on ... but show me how U shower each morning ...
she steps in ... pulls curtain ... leaves it on the outside of the tub.
Calls the ladt back up stairs ...
"I figured out why it's leaking ... Yer #$%^&* daughter doesn't know how to work a #$%^&* shower curtain and all the #$%^&* water is running off her #$%^&*a$$ and down onto the #$%^&* floor!"
It wasn't leaking at the tub ... it was leaking at the walls! She flooded the floor each morning ... no one ever thot that may be the source of the water problem.
He told the apt owner until he rented to smarter people we weren't going back into that apartment.
Jeff
Hadn't thought of offering to go during shower time. But that is what we will do. We want to fix it. I don't want a job left undone but am tired of spending time and money on a seemingly non existant problem. Thanks for the advice all. DanT
What's she look like?
Maybe you could offer to shower with her to help diagnose the problem?
Joe H
Ummm........cattle drive comes to mind. With horse teeth. DanT
I'm in agreement with you Dan.
You have gone above and beyond.
One more shot while the leaker is in the shower and then move on.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
If it only leaks for one person, it is in how that person uses the equipment, not in how the equipment is installed.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That is my thinking. I called Friday and said I would be happy to meet with them this Friday A.M. and watch the ceiling/bottomof the tub as she took a shower to try and find the issue. Whatever time she normally does this I will be there. The mother in law said it made sense to her and she would call back with a time as soon as she talked with them. No call so far. We will see.
I explained that this is the only solution I know to do as she had seen numerous times we couldn't get it to leak. She agreed. DanT
be aware of the quantum physics effect.With some tests, the act of testing changes the outcome of the test results. You think that horses pituttie will do it all the same way, knowing that you are watching?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought of that. And I told them if it didn't leak during this test they were on there own. I still haven't heard back from them and frankly wonder if it will happen but I want to fix it if we can. Frankly the life style in that house would make you wonder how anything would work or last but thats another story. DanT
I do alot of service work for my landlord, and you wouldn't believe how many people don't know how to work a shower curtain. It's seems like everytime I get the "there's a leak upstairs" call, the person upstairs is a new tenant not licensed to operate a shower curtain.
Edited 5/19/2005 8:55 pm ET by dustinf
.>>>>>>>>>>>>is a new tenant not licensed to operate a shower curtain.<<<<<<<
They should be required to show four forms of ID to get one of those.
<G>
"Tell me again, Mr. Ledbetter. What's a Mississippi Flush and how's it beat this hand?It's a small revolver and any five cards."
Man I was about to post a darn near identical story before I read yours. Exactly! These people didn't know the curtain goes inside? I couldn't believe it. They thought their builder should fix everything in their basement that got wet. A few months later they thought he should fix windows that got wet from "leaking" - when they left town for 3 days, left them open, and it rained."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Yep, I built a garage for a guy, with upstairs storage for his "antiques" next year he calls me to say there is something wrong with the way I had done the venting and insulation, because there was mold growing all over everything. I gave due diligence by telling him I would go look at things to see what needed to be done.I already knew what the problem was. I drive past the place every three or four weeks at least. His "caretaker" had left the windows open all winter long. Too much trouble to go up and slide a double hung down, I guess.So this call comes in August and the dang windows are still open, the fog is rolling right through, and there is minimal mildew beginning to grow dark speckles here and there. I take pictures for documentation, and write him a report, saying in tactful language to tell his lazy f***ing help to take care of thing properly, that the wall and cialing mildew could be cured with a 10% chlorine wash but that he should consult an expert to deal with the "antiques"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Jeff, can I get your dad to come and do call-backs for me?
Sometimes I wish I had the nerve to treat idiots like the idiots that they are.
I always tell him growing older than dirt has it's benefits ...
walk around all day being old and grumpy ... and people just seem to leave ya alone!
Jeff
This whole story reminds me of one that was in back of FHB about the reappearing leak; the old lady and "THE DOG"!
Here is the latest update. I took the advice given here and called last Friday. I said I would like to give the leak find one more shot. The mother of the guy (who is my contact as they aren't home much) is who I was speaking too.
I said that since this only happens when the Mrs. showers I would like to come over this Friday at whatever time she showers and stand in the living room with the and watch the bottom of the drain system and watch for the leak. Then when she is done I would look at the bath tub and shower area themselves to see what I can find.
The mother says that she leaves early and I said no problem I will be there I don't care if it is 3 AM. She says ok she will get me a time because they are stumped too and she knows they want to find it too.
Didn't hear another word until this morning. She said the daughter in law is working "early" tommorow and thinks maybe another day would be better. I called and left the message that I am totally booked till August but have time tommorow morning and want badly to fix the issue. Please call me back with a time, whatever time it is, so I can be there and witness the leak. No call so far. Think I am done. What do you think? DanT
I agree with you. But then again, you might just get a call at 3:00 A.M. saying "ok, come over right now."
You must know these people. She called at 8 tonight and said 6:30 AM would be ok. She asked if I thought weight had anything to do with it because it doesn't leak when her son is showering. I said "well ummm, could I suppose". Should be interesting. DanT
I'm sitting in front of my conputer anxiously waiting for "the rest of the story".
But I think we all suspect that the leak is going to wind up being due to "pilot error"
The rest of the story......
Went over this morning and stood looking at the drain area while the said shower commenced. Waited, waited, and waited.
Suddenly at the end of the shower a small stream of water came running down from the ceiling from the outside corner of the tub.
When she was done I went up and found a puddle on the floor outside the shower. Showed it to her. She said the doors don't seal well. I said no they don't and I mentioned that when you asked me to re use them. She said she remembered that. So we reviewed the door closing scheme and tried to duplicate the leak. Didn't happen. I asked it she was sure she had the door closed? She said she was sure, but of course maybe bumped it open?! I said, well maybe.
We agreed that it must be operator error as no water came from the plumbing or the door area when we tried to duplicate it. It is now my guess that as she turns around in the shower (large woman here) she bumps the door and it opens. The inside of the tub area looked like a car wash. I have honestly never seen that much water sprayed around a tub after a shower before. I frankly didn't really know how to ask someone how they shower or what method they used. But I am telling you every square inch of the inside of that shower was drenched in water from the top of the doors down. Still kind of a mystery to me but she seems satisfied that it isn't our issue now. And she asked for a quote on some more work. Think I will pass on that one though. DanT
The things we self employed tradesman do for our customers...
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com
ahh ... wait'll I tell Dad!
U want him to call over and yell at the nice lady for ya?
He's old enough to get away with it ...
plus ... cranky old guys got the best swear words!
Jeff
edit to say ... I also got huge compliments from the lady after wards ... and she called for about 2 years with a series of small projects that I kept turning down ... was as though ... as she knew I usually worked in another part of town ... and was just in on that one to help Dad out. His excuse was ... "can't w/o Jeff" ... so it was a win/win!
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Edited 5/30/2005 12:36 am ET by JEFF J. BUCK