I was at my folks house this weekend helping my dad rewire some stuff in the basement. The house is an ’80’s ranch on the lake with a w/o basement. He had a problem with breakers popping for the basement so I told him I’d check it out. Now, I’m no electrician, but I know what’s right and what’s wrong and this basement blew my mind! For starters, EVERYTHING in the utility room was on (1) circuit…well pump, water heater (gas w/elec. start), furnace and water softener. Now the wiring was 14ga and the breaker was 20A. So we sketched on paper how to fix that with new circuits, no big deal. Then we chose to split the basement lights into separate circuits also since the basement was finished into 5 rooms and all the outlets and lights and master b/r outlets were on another 14ga w/20A breaker circuit.
Next we found a 220v breaker in the panel, that was on, and couldn’t figure out where the wire went to, so we started lifting drop ceiling panels and I sh*t you guys not, this 220 line dead ended right where someone cut it off in the ceiling, still live!! No box, not bent at the end, not even tape to cover the end…just cut! Holy sh*t!
So dig this; my folks bought this place about a year ago and it passed city and private inspection!
What crazy stuff have you pro’s found in your years of experience? I’m dying to know if it gets any worse than what we found this Saturday.
Replies
I'm imagining all the ways the autopsy report could have read for the previous owner...
Excellence is its own reward!
I had a friend buy an old house that had a new 200 Amp service panel. It had also passed inspection. No fault of the inspector.
He had lots of electrical problems. Finally started investigating. Yep, there was a new box. Yep, lots of new wires hooked up to breakers and going into the wall. If you removed a wall panel, all but 2 of these wires were cut off right above the box, all live, some taped some not.
The 2 live wires went into the attic where every 110 circuit in the house tied into one and every 220 circuit tied into another. Each connection was made to the old wiring. Each was wire nutted, taped, and hidden under the insulation. He'd bought it at an estate auction. None of the owners children had any idea who did the work, just that dad had paid someone to upgrade his electrical system a few years ago. Fortunately, that someone didn't kill anyone, through no fault of his own.
Scared the crud out of him and he spent a good bit of time and money fixing the wiring in his house.
My house, the downstairs wiring was all 12 gauge wire, but hooked to 30 and 40 amp 110 breakers, didn't know you could even get those, but I have several. Also a 220 outlet wired to 2 110 breakers on seperate sides of the panel, one at 30 amps, one at 40 amps, also 12 gauge wire.
I'm no pro, but these are the worst I've seen.
Oh, and the dryer outlet in my dad's house. Hole cut in board, outlet screwed to hole, board screwed to floor joists. Screws and wires exposed on the back side of board. Grandchildren playing downstairs, Yikes!
diy remodeler added a master bedroom to the house I currently own. He did a decent job framing, etc. But he used earth to shore up his foundation walls, which causes an uneven edge that traps water. Plus he wasn't a mason and didn't leave weep holes in the brick. So the walls rotted out from the floor up.
Funny how a little ignorance can cause near total devestation. I could tell he hadn't laid brick before because of other mistakes. He left himself a brick ledge on the gable end but not on the soffit ends. So the soffits are only 9" wide compared to 13" on the rest of the house. And because he didn't account for the brick ledge up the gable end, he had to do a really awkward aluminum flashing job where the brick wall meets the aluminum gable. Plus he built the wall and didn't zig his bricks to weave the side walls in, so there's a standing seam of mud all the way up the wall on the ends.
remodeler
California three ways are my favorite!! It's where the yo yo wanna be electrician uses the BARE wire in a 14/2 wire as one of the current carrying conductors. Homeowners can even unnerstand this one!!
Then there is the plumbing vent in the attic that was not extended thru the roof. Makes for nauseous homeowners.
Oh yeah, then there are the single strand wires running thru the attic like a spiderweb. Whatever makes it work, right?
OR the carpenter who hides his junction box in a finished wall only for the electrician to find it 20 years later. Bet his warranty expired.
OK -- how about two bootleg receptacles screwed to the wood lath with drywall screws, and wired with loomed wire stapled to the sides of the joists about 4" apart. There was a junction in the run, twisted and taped. No wire nuts, no solder. And to feed this mess, the loomed wires were stuck into a legit box thru two of the small mounting holes in the back. Pretty bad, but I'm sure there'll be stories to top it.
-- J.S.
I still like the Romex that was held in place by roofing nails through the center of the cable for about 30 ft to hold it in place under the eave where it fed an outdoor light fixture. House was bought by a friend who is a high end commercial-design electrical engineer, and he didn't spot it until some time after they had moved in because the previous owner/whomever, had painted the romex to match the house.
That's a pretty good one. My best electrical sighting was at a family member's cottage on Lake MI. The house is a brick veneer built into the side of a dune during the '30s. As such, there's only basement under about half the house. The whole place needed updating and new wiring, so the electrician that was hired (who was also the plumber, hvac person, tile guy, and finish carp) needed to run a circuit up into the part of the house that didn't have basement underneath it. His solution was to drill a hole through the basement interior wall near the ceiling, feed romex through, and leave it dangling outside with no conduit or anything. Then he let it rest on the ground and ran it about 5' up the dune (the ground is pitched at 45 degrees or so) to the side of the chimney, where he taped it to the brick and ran to the top of the 1st floor so he could run it through the ceiling. I'm no electrician either but I'm pretty darn sure you can't do that. Being in the woods, I sure hope some animal (or child) doesn't get too curious around there...
Speaker wire used for wiring with scotch tape on the splices. I can go on and on.
As contractors we have seen the worst and we realize why homes and loved ones are lost in house fires due to faulty wiring each year. Call an electrician and spend the money. Your life is worth it.
"One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions"
Edited 2/18/2003 10:29:11 PM ET by Woodrow
I worked with a guy years ago whose wife had been pestering him about installing an air-conditioner in their bedroom. They'd bought one of those in-the-wall mounted units and he'd put off installing it through a couple of summer seasons.
She finally got her point across one weekend and roared out of the driveway to go shopping.
Meanwhile, he's home, not really enthused about this particular honeydo, but rounds up his tools, walks behind the house and just GUESSES about where to make his plunge cuts. He marks out the cut (from outside), drills some holes in the corners for his sawzall and starts sawing away through siding, insulation and drywall.
He said he'd never seen insulation like the saw was pulling out of the hole...it was green and had sequins on it and began to bind his saw.
So finally, he went inside to investigate and found he'd sawed into his wife's closet and the saw had grabbed one of her evening gowns.Jules Quaver for President 2004
My best customer's house used to be owned by an electrical engineer. Mounted right next to the box is a GFCI outlet. Plugged into one of the outlets is the wire to the lamp on the pole at the end of the driveway (yes, a plug on the end of the romex).
In the other plug was another run of romex with a plug on the end. This fed the den (TV, VCR, etc., lamps), the outlet in the library the computer plugged into, the backdoor light, two outlets in the living room, the light and an outlet in a bedroom upstairs, the overhead lights and the medicine cabinet lights in the full bath upstairs (but not the outlet above the sink!), and the lights in another bedroom.
They got a lot of nuisance throws out of that GFCI!
I probably posted this a long time ago but...
When I inspected for the local Housing Authority, I had to walk each of the four neighborhoods each week. First time out in one of them I noticed that the meter base on a shed used to store Housing Authority equipment was uncovered. No meter, no cover. I immediately informed the maint. supervisor. He calmly told me that the power was off at the pole. The next day he admitted that curiousity got to him and he checked it. It was live!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Edited 2/18/2003 11:47:44 PM ET by Rich Beckman
MFG_KING, I had a service call in this house where I found a guy had put in a new 100A service, and from that box went straight to the attic with 12-2 where he spliced into the knob and tube wires, which backfed through the old fusebox and fed the whole house. This is true.
I was asked to be present while a "qualified" P.E. engineer inspected a home for one of the docs my wife worked with. I watched as he shined his flashlight up the chimney, flushed the toilets and checked the doors for fit. His assistant (apprentice?) busily scribbled notes onto a legal pad as they checked the house. When they were finished the new homeowner was given a verbal appraisal of the findings.
I casually asked how they liked the wiring the previous owner did in the basement. They had no idea what I was talking about. We went down to the basement and I showed them the extension cord (instead of romex) wiring in the shop area to the rest of the basement. I realize any one can miss things. But I kinda wonder why a highly qualified engineer would miss something draped through the air you have to move to access the rest of the basement. found a few other items missed as well. Chalk one up for a dumb uneducated nail bender.
Gave up on rentals years ago, could not take the stress <G>.
2nd to last rental house sold I'd lived in myself for 7 years, so knew well what was there originally.
Inspection after finally evicting the tennants ( I had not been in the house for 5 years) REVEALED:
a. New very expensive kitchen faucet (shoplifted?) installed by cutting the pipes with who knows what, new 'pipe' was car heater hose with hose clamps!
b. New outlet in the living room wall, no box, outlet simply screwed to the drywall, 2 single strand wires fished to attic and spliced onto split open romex, again, no box.
c. garage door held closed by bungee cord (apparently as the neighbors told it, the DH took an ax to the door lock when DW locked him out when she had boyfriend over)
d. Hole cut into furnace duct into basement, have no idea why.
e. etc....................
BTW, the DH was a drywaller by 'trade', guess what held lots of crap to the walls everywhere?
Some of those stories are truly unbelievable! I guess dad is right when he says, "without stupid people in the world, what would we be?"
I had a good read over coffee at Barnes & Nobles recently. Taunton publishes a book along the lines of how to be a house inspector...
It had lots of info and illustrations on what to look for in each trade. A lot of it emphasized d-i-y mistakes that are common to find in inspections. But a good read along the lines of this thread
remodeler
"without stupid people in the world, what would we be?"
Unemployed.
"It's hard to make things foolproof 'cause fools are so ingenious"
Unemployed?
I casually asked how they liked the wiring the previous owner did in the basement. They had no idea what I was talking about. We went down to the basement and I showed them the extension cord (instead of romex) wiring in the shop area to the rest of the basement. I realize any one can miss things. But I kinda wonder why a highly qualified engineer would miss something draped through the air you have to move to access the rest of the basement. found a few other items missed as well. Chalk one up for a dumb uneducated nail bender.
Sounds like a clear miss. Consider though, that the home inspector is looking, or trying to look, at a huge number of details in a house; sometimes, in looking at the details, you can miss some stuff that is obvious when you see it, but which doesn't break into your conscriousness. We see a lot of wires looping around, and it's usually extension cords used as extension cords. After you see a lot of them, they start edging off to the edges of your consciousness.
Not an excuse, just an explanation of how that can happen.
I missed a really obvious roof leak one time; in fact, I missed the entire da*n powder room. Very large old victorian with a really complex floor plan, a lot of owner possessions, and lot of stuff to comment on. I just never even saw the bathroom, I quess.
Ouch!
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Service call- power out. After getting the key we get in and see a claw hammer on a shelf above the panel and obvious signs, the paint was beat off in spots, of physical abuse. Sure enough the lights don't work.
After pulling the panel screws we gently, always gently, start to remove the cover and after about half an inch the guy I'm working with asks if the main breaker was supposed to come out with the cover. I say no and slowly push the cover back into place. We put two screws back in and pull the meter.
After everything is dead we pull the cover and find that the main is nothing but cinders. Had we removed the cover the lines would have been completely unsupported and shorted out. Being fuse only on the high side of the transformer it would have been loud and could easily burned back all the way to the pole. Could have ruined my whole day.
About this time the resident comes home and is put out that the power is off. Seeing as this is not the sort of damage that happens over night. We ask about how long she had had problems. After thinking for a second, and with a little help from her kid she says that it must be at least two years. Maybe three.
It started with a lights going dim. After a bit someone noticed that if you slammed the door the lights would come back on. After some time this wouldn't get it. So they beat on the wall, it was cracked. After some time even this didn't work so they got a hammer and would smack the panel directly. This had gotten them through another 6 months before the system wouldn't respond. Only when all other techniques had been tried did they think about call in an electrician.
Asked if there were any unusual signs the lady admitted that yes, now that she thought about it, they had smelled smoke a few times, strong enough according to her that they had to open the back door to ventilate, and there was sometimes a sound that sounded a lot like frying bacon. They didn't think much about it except that they noticed that when it made the noise the TV reception got lousy. It interfered sometimes with monday night football.
whoever is in charge of reality must look after fools because the bus bars were still good and there was enough undamaged slack in the conductors to make up a new one without much trouble. A quick visit to a supply house for a new breaker and some time to remove the soot and install it where all it took.
The kicker was that this was a rental house owned by a man who takes care of problems quickly and without hassles. He called us in within a few hours of hearing that the house had a problem and didn't attempt to dicker. He just told us to take care of it.
I bought lunch for my helper in thanks for his sharp eyes. He now tells about it to his helpers as a cautionary tale. Lesson: Stay alert and remove panel covers slowly because you never know what your going to find.
I could go on, every electrician I know has many horror stories, but this was the first one that came to mind.
An industrial electrician on my crew in a mill years ago had once worked for an electrical service company that provided expertise to some of the remote canneries and sawmills in Alaska.
He told of once being flown into a sawmill on a small island that was shut down due to loss of electrical power. It was mid-winter, lots of snow and a miserable place.
Upon his arrival, the mill manager escorted him to a room in the mill basement that contained all the primary elect distribution. One large box, containing several large knife switches and numerous relays, was open, the door hanging askew, with everything all charred and crispy.
Throughout the room, scattered everywhere, was feathers and tufts of goose down.
What had happened was one of the maintenance guys was the designated "electrician" and routinely did troubleshooting with the aid of a light bulb with two wires soldered to it. In an attempt to locate the original problem (bad relay or whatever) he got across a couple hot wires and the panel blew up.
The feathers were from the goose down jacket he was wearing! (And he was never seen again).Jules Quaver for President 2004
That's why certain people will only be able to afford to live in rentals. Were they waiting for the house to burn down so they could collect something on the insurance?
14ga single conductor wire every where in a rat's nest maze form. Need a heavier gauge wire, run 2nd parllel 14 or a 3rd - 4th etc. Stove had about 20 runs of wire. Outlet boxes (110v) 2 runs, no clamps, no insulators. No juntion boxes. Splices twisted and duct taped. No wire nuts. Many polarities reversed. Garden hose for conduit with internal splicing. Only 110v breakers and 8 of them. Old FPE panel. Probably used. No disconnects. No main. No grounds. Bond from panel to gas line. Zip cord to a lot of outlets. Most of the wiring was done similar to knob and tube but without the insulators. 60 amp drop. Electric heat ganged to SE cable upstream from the panel and meter. More miles of duct tape and then it went down hill from there.
Small conch house in Tampa, FL. 56k house for 17k because of the fine HO upgrades. Now there was the plumbing witch was not as well done as the electrical.
MORE TOYS NOW.... WHY WAIT TILL TOMORROW....
IMERC,
That must be made up! How can that much be screwed up and the place didn't burn down?
It's not just amatuers who do this stuff. I worked with an old framer on a large remodel about 20 years ago who had a unique method for dealing with those pesky electrical wires dangling from the ceiling where a wall one stood.
He'd place a block 2x behind the wire, whip out his rigging axe like a snake, and WHACK! he'd cut the wire, stuffing the often times still hot end back up into the ceiling for the electrician to sort out later. That house is still standing, but can you imagine?
No, it's not all on people who don't know any better. Sometimes it's just people in too big a hurry.
No idea but a 100% rework was done after I bought the place and the electric and water were turned on. The place had been vacant for several years. The building itself was sound.
Add outlets mounted in the base board without boxes and switches screwed to to plaster lath.
Basicly paid for the lot and the house was free.
MORE TOYS NOW.... WHY WAIT TILL TOMORROW....
"Garden hose for conduit with internal splicing."
You have to like that. Very creative. Sort of an improvisational approach to electrical work.
Another case:
We go out to a service call. On the phone the man assures us that the house had been recently rewired and so it was sure to be something small. He meet us at the door very proud of the job. He brags that he went the extra mile to do it right by putting everything in pipe.
A quick visit to the attic, after failing to find the problem in the boxes, reveals that he had rewired the entire house in NM pulled in, with considerable force, plumbing fittings. Pulling the cable in through multiple plumbing 90s, prior to gluing the fittings in place, had skinned the insulation and caused multiple faults.
When we told him that the entire house needed rewiring he went ballistic. We beat feet back to the truck. I don't think we ever got paid for our time. A few months later my boss noticed that the house was up for sale.
How do you get 3 #6's and 1 #8 through 1/2" high pressure EL.
MORE TOYS NOW....
Talent, skill, determination and a complete lack of knowledge.
I once saw 2-#2s and a bare #4 pulled 20' through a piece of 1/2" pipe. Amazing.
Those people must have some kind of cable compressor we don't know about. The 40 ton Enterpac helps too.
I just included this story as part of a post in another thread but it's so stupid it bears repeating. A crew here in Abilene, TX recently used a router to rip a channel through the face of several structural insulated panels on a friend's house. They were installing the electrical wires. Never mind that the panels had integrated wiring chases! It was faster, and besides, they had done it on several ICF jobs. One swoop of the router and the high dollar SIP's became nothing but IP's.
Kevin Halliburton
bought a house years ago a late 70's semi detached with a owner done basement/ family room which i ripped apart to redo, thank god!! all basement lights in the suspended ceiling were wired with that old flat antenna wire, like 6 or 8 pot lights right from the switch!!scary huh?
im no pro electrician but have rewired three houses of my own with judicious amounts of advice and an final approval from the inspectors.
one really strange event happened a few years ago, i used to deliver and install appliances for Sears. A customer had gone to the store and bought a new thru wall ac unit to replace an old one. She had a local handyman type install it for her.
They turned it on and poof gone, Sears replaced that ac unit three times and all were ruined on startup, so they sent me over to investigate. Turned out that the old unit was a 240 V unit and the new one a 120 and of course the plug wouldnt fit. So mr brilliance goes to a hardware store, buys a new 120 15 amp plug and wires it in, no problem except those conductors are a little big. oh well. poof goes the first ac and the second and the third. of course what he didnt check was the voltage on the line!!!
i get there with a voltmeter and bingo 240 on a 120v receptacle, lets check the fuse box!!Sure enough black on a fuse and white on a fuse on opposite bus bars equals 240. Simple fix of course, put the white on the neutral bar, replace fuse holder for 15 amp, no more problem.
Should be a licensing system in place to stop unqualified people from purchasing such products
Here in Maine that action is a class E Felony. Seldom happens, but I'm told that it is possible to do time behind another kind of busbar for messing around with wiring like that without a license..
Excellence is its own reward!
sounds great to me here in ontario, no one except a licensed electrician can touch anything except an extesion cord or light bulb
in fact another story come s to mind, i install kitchen cabinets and on a recent job i encountered an aquantance of mine doing other work including some electrical(not qualified)
he was running new 14-3 wire to the over counter receptacles and installing new split breakers and outlets, ok so far, great idea
BUT he was putting the new double breakers in the wrong spots in the panel
i even tried to explain it"thats the way i always do it" he said
so instead of having 240 between the two hot side receptacles he had 0
that means that the neutral wire with two high draw appliances plugged in and running could be carrying up to 30 amps
dont know if the us has this system but in canada we have split receptacles in our kitchens meaning that each half is on a seperate breaker (tied together) and fed by 14-3 wire so if two high draw appliances are used together on the same receptacle the neutral carries little or no current
im no electrician but it makes sense to me
post script, i told the customer, he got an electrician to fix it, and the other contractor wont speak to me, TOUGH LUCK buddy if you dont know how, dont do it
>> ... no one except a licensed electrician can touch anything ...
That's no one including the homeowner?
thats i tough one, here in ontario, a home owner can do his own electrical work with a permit and proper inspection
this should cover the legalities and insurance liabilities
but a small contractor like most us? we shouldnt even touch electrical or gas stuff
I once owned a house that the previous owner had done a room addition to. One day I noticed an extension cord (one of those brown lamp cord ones) plugged into one of those screw-in plug adaptors in one of the basement lights. I follow it across the ceiling, dangling from the occaisional "texas staple" bent-over nail, at the end is another cord plugged into it and disappearing into a hole in the subfloor upstairs. You guessed it ! the entire addition was fed by this !
A friend of mine recently finished his basement. he was proudly showing me how he had done all his own wiring, and explained that he had fed it all by tapping into one of the existing lights. When I asked him why he hadn't done it the "right" way and just added a couple of new circiuts to the breaker box, his response was "Are you kidding? I'm not about to go messing around in there! I'm not stupid you know!"
Wow.
Unfortunately, many of these situations can be at least indirectly attributed to t.v. shows like "hometime" which do a great job of convincing people that any idiot can do this stuff by not showing them even one tenth of what really goes into even the simplest job.
"Unfortunately, many of these situations can be at least indirectly attributed to t.v. shows like "hometime" which do a great job of convincing people that any idiot can do this stuff by not showing them even one tenth of what really goes into even the simplest job."
I don't know if anyone has anyway of proving this one way or another.
But the two examples that I have seen of similar "fine wiring practices" where do back in the 70's or earlier.
Just remembered a story related to me. I spent 3 hours going through an old house with a very good home inspector. We ended up spending about 1/2 hour of that waiting for the realtor to open the house, so I asked him what some of the worst things he'd seen were.
Forget most of them, but one was a partial basement he'd inspected. Said he was leaving when he realized something just ain't right. After a couple minutes looking it dawned on him, some of the light fixtures had 2 electric fence wires connecting them instead of romex. Said he'd walked all around them, but fortunately hadn't touched the wires. Said the realtor got ticked. She lost the sale when he recommended the buyer have a full electrical inspection before purchasing.
He just imagined the trouble he'd have been in if their little kid had gotten killed by those wires, and he'd missed them.
At least I knew it when I bought it:
Bought a house where someone had skinned the insulation off the old "cotton wrap" wire, they'd then twisted on a piece of 18 ga. lamp cord, taped the connections with "friction tape". Where did the lamp card go to? Through a 1/4 in. hole drilled through the floor! The other end was a standard old style extension cord end laying loose on the floor upstairs! That arrangement had obviously been in use for many years. I figured what the heck and replaced it all anyway! ;)
bought a 1970 ranch style home that was forclosed on(drug house busted bt the DEA). Left all my elecrtical tools on a job that I was working on. One night went into my attic because we had lights flickering. Found the box that was causing the problem and shut the breaker off to the box. My son pulled on the romex alittle and we determined which wire/breaker it was and turned of the breaker. Went back into the attic and opened the box, untwisted the wire nuts and...BOOM. Lit up the whole attic and blinded me for along time(it felt like), smacked my head against the roof sheeting. Tore my scalp open on the roofing stables and had blood dripping my forehead. Found out later that the druggie had ran one end of the run into one breaker and somehow ran the other end of therun into another breaker that was luckily on the same power lug. I guess he thought if he tripped one breaker, he would still have power .on the same line by using the other breaker.
I realized that this was the beginning of my worst nightmare...
I found on of those continuous loops once. Needless to say, it's an electrifying experience..
Excellence is its own reward!
Got a call from a HO. He had bought a house as a fixer-upper. He got a good deal on it because the previous HO was busted for growing pot. In starting to work on it he found he couldn't turn off some questionable wiring he wanted to replace.
Sure enough I throw the main and two circuits are still live. After looking for a second meter I realize I can't find the power source but I notice that the house is a bit unusual. The weatherhead is on one side of the house and the meter is on the other. The connecting conduit goes through the attic. This arrangement was never common and is not allowed any time in the last ten years.
I climb into the attic to check it out. I find that someone has hacksawed about 1/3 the way through the conduit, rigid steel, in two spots about 10" apart and has then taken a cold chisel and split the pipe between the cuts. The conductors were then drawn up, stripped and conductors tapped in and each assembly insulated with elecrical tape.
This act of improvisational electrical construction was done live as evidenced by the small arc marks in two spots on the conduit. Even more amazing because the only place to work from is on top of the very well grounded conduit while working your magic. Im not sure I would do the job with a flash suit, half a bottle of tequila and a substantial pay raise.
To disconnect the power we called the power company, the lineman didn't beleive me as to the need and returned from the attic shaking his head, and had them drop the feed from the pole while we refed the meter with a new conduit run wrapped around the house. The inspector came in and took a look and took pictures. Not an inspection he was there because he couldn't beleive what he heard. Quite the novelty.
The motivation for this technique was clear. By tapping the feed before the meter he was not paying for the power used to run his grow room. Scary. I can't imagine someone stooped over and working in an overheated attic by flashlight on an unfused line. Whacking away with a chisel just a fraction of an inch away from electrocuting yourself. Brave? Stupid? Both? Your call.
Are we limiting this to just electrical blunders or can we expand it a little?
How about using casement windows as skylights? It seems the homeowner wanted Andersen Roof Windows installed and the previous....whatever (I hesitate to call him a contractor) not knowing what she meant, installed the casements.
How about the homeowner that wanted to relocate his toilet to the opposite end of the bathroom cutting out all the joists to make room for the waste pipe run? Within a week, I get a call because the bathroom floor seemed a little "bouncy" and they didn't know why.
Then there's the one where a handyman cut out a bearing wall separating an entry hall from the living room. I was told that since the house didn't fall when he took out the wall, it couldn't have been a bearing wall.
My favorite has to be using 12 pieces of drywall (yep, 12) as a way of closing in a too large opening for a skylight. This is with NO plywood covering it either! It seems the homeowner decided to go with a smaller skylight he got on sale and figured the drywall would do the trick. Since it started leaking, he wanted to call a pro to see why. After all, he used "waterproof" sheetrock so it can't be that!
Edited 2/26/2003 2:56:43 AM ET by nino
Yup those are good ones. Sometimes all I can do is shake my head in amazement, walk on and take the rest of the day off at the bar. I don't drink any more but some days it seems a reasonable option. Every time I think I have seen, or heard, the most mindless act someone comes along and raises the bar.
On the military side I remember a report that made the rounds. It was from South Africa in the 70s. A scout unit observed a three insurgents planting an anti-tank mine.
Usual method is to dig a hole and tamp the flat bottom so the mine won't sink in soft ground when run over. Then you place the mine, camouflage and remove the safety.
Problem was these guys dug the hole, placed the mine, had thrown the spoil back in and removed the safety when they remembered that they had not packed the dirt under the mine. Remembering their training they recalled that the mine was no danger to A foot soldier. So to save time all three of these guys joined hands and proceeded to do a grand job of tamping the earth under the mine by jumping up and down on top of it.
After the mine went off all the scout unit could find of the insurgents was a pair of boots. A 40 lb shaped charge can make quite a mess. A Darwinian accident. You! Out of the gene pool.
As I was taught, when learning to emplace anti-tank mines. They take about 500 lbs. of pressure to set off. After telling us that, the instructor asked if we felt safer. Then he asked how much force do you think you put on the ground when you're running with 80-100 lbs. of gear?
A similar instance we were told about was with the M180 Cratering kit. It's a stand you set up that has a 15 lb. shaped charge at the bottom of an angled rail. On top of the rail is a small rocket with at 30 lb. fertilizer bomb in it. When you set off the rocket it depresses a detonator that sets off the shaped charge. This blows about a 6' deep hole in the ground, the rocket flies into the hole and detonates. Blows a crater about 20' in diameter. Pretty impressive.
The detonator the rocket hits has a metal shield over it so you can't push it by hand. Why? Because, we were told in Germany someone had wired one up, then showed some visiting dignataries how it worked. The rocket hits this, he clicks the detonator, shaped charge goes off, 8 people killed. (story as I remember it)
Never get careless when dealing with: explosives, firearms, power tools, heavy equipment, electricity, ect.. People do some scary things. Unfortunately, it's often someone else who gets killed because of it.
Our trainers also showed us pictures of a ammo dump. Some Iraqi soldiers, before surrendering removed then mine field they'd lain. Pretty nice of them really. There were hundreds of anti-tank mines stacked in piles about 6' high inside a small fenced area. Our trainer said he was still amazed it never went off, as many mines seemed to still be armed. He got permission and blew the whole pile in place.
We use the phrase "poof, pink mist" to describe mistakes made with explosives. Reminds me of a story I heard, relayed by one of those guys you regularly see on the History Channel, which involved mistaking one type of RPG for another. They could both fit in the same launcher unit. The mistaken RPG, though, used an explosive charge to launch it a distance before the rocket ignited. It was unfortunately used in an earlier launcher model that wasn't designed to contain the energy from the launch. Poof, pink mist was used to describe the launchee's head about one second after he had pulled the trigger. And for some reason I can never shake that image when I pull the trigger on an AUG.
OK, dumb question. What does AUG stand far? We used to field a 90mm bazoka when I was a combat engineer, though I've forgotten the name. Gave that up when we went to artillery. Just trained with LAW's (Light Anti-tank Weapon) after that. Of course our 155mm main gun would be the preferred weapon against vehicles.
We also no longer needed to mess with landmines, which I was happy about. Very glad I never had to mess with live mines. Those things always made me nervous.
Those images are hard to shake. Remembered the picture of the M113 APC that hit a land mine many times when I climbed into one.
Did you have CEV's with the 165mm Demo gun?
LAWs did a serious number on bunkers but not much else.
When we were combat engineers, battalion maintenace had some CEV's, and another company had bridging equipment, ect.
You're right about the LAW only being good for bunkers. Pretty good for trucks ect. Though the 203 I carried would handle those well. Maybe even an APC. Anti-tank is only in the name. Frankly, we were told that even shooting a tank with our 155mm artillery would probably just piss them off. That's if we ever got the chance, tanks can fire much faster and more acurate in direct fire mode. If we were lucky it'd stop them. If we were real lucky, their gun wouldn't work anymore. We didn't usually carry shaped charge warheads as our job was indirect fire. Though, in war they might issue you a 'goldenrod', which was a laser guided shaped charge. It could be used in direct fire mode.
What did you do in the military? I was just in the Gaurd. Spent 9 years, really hated artillery, so I bailed. Almost went into a local unit of firefighters, but couldn't figure out how to fit 3 months of training into my work schedule, so I just got out. They just got called up for 1 year. Great bunch of guys.
If my friends in artillery got called up, I'd probably have to get back in and go with them. Though everyone agrees their new CO is a complete Azz. Too bad, the 2 before him were great. A FU'd CO can make life in the Army totally miserable.
When I was in basic, toward the end, we had to gather around a swimming pool. In full getup, all winter clothes, helmet, m16, and pack, we had to jump in the pool, and then make our way out of it.
Yes, I said m-16. Next stop was cleaning them. That was the least of it.
There were several people who said they couldn't swim. DS said "anyone who cannot swim, say so now". Several piped up. For some reason, he let all but two of them step aside. Why he made the other two stay, I have no idea. Probably just didn't like them. One of the two continued to complain. Being very insistant that he could not swim. He was ordered silent.
When it came his turn, the DS actualy had to shove him in the water. He wouldn't go, otherwise. He sank like a rock.
And stayed there.
After about 30 or 40 seconds, (seemed like an eternity), I started to take off my pack, because I was going in after him. I was ordered back in line, and to put my pack back on. Another 30 seconds or so, (an even longer eternity), and no more bubbles were coming up.
I stepped out of line, and started franticaly taking my pack off. The DS stormed over to me and was raising cain right in my face, but I continued anyway. Took off the pack, my coat, and helmet, and dove in. By the time I was to my coat, some of the other guys were shedding as well. By the time I got a grip on the guy, there were several others splashing into the pool behind me.
We didn't even bother pulling his pack off, just dragged him straight out of the water.
He was dead.
The DS himself performed CPR, along with a couple of the other guys.
No use.
Ambulance took him away, but he never revived.
What a friggen waste. What ignorance.
...
At permanent station, we would occassionaly do field training.
One such exercise, was the last one that I participated in. There was only one reason for this exercise... Burning off the munitions, gasoline, etc, that the base had, so that we would be able to request even more in the next quarter. This exercise lasted more than twice as long as most, for just this reason.
Toward the end, many of us were totaly wiped out. Very little sleep. One night, a neighboring company commander gave the orders to block a road. Not allow anything past. His words, as passed to the guards... "If you fall asleep, you better be laying on that road."
Well, they did fall asleep.
And they did lay across the road, as ordered.
About 3:30 inna am, here comes a deuce-n-half. The passenger is less asleep than the driver, but they are both pretty much more asleep than not. A miracle they were staying on the road. Especialy with the shielded headlights.
The passenger realizes what those shapes in the road ahead are. Grabs the driver's shoulder and yells at him. The driver reacted a bit too slowly. Major injuries to one of those in the road. The other two killed.
One of the three started to sit up, just as the truck hit them. Something in the undercariage of the truck, stuck through his head, and dragged him about 20 feet.
Again, such a waste. Such ignorance.
The man who got dragged... His wife was in the base hospital, giving birth, at the time that he was killed.
...
Someone asked in another thread, just what is the purpose of the UCMJ. Most answers would be that it is tougher, more strict. Easier to kangaroo someone with.
There is another purpose. The people who were involved in these incidents were tried in military courts. All of them. Even those with the slightest bit of involvement. The reason was because, once tried they could not be tried again, in a civilian court. All were given slaps on the wrist, and admonishments not to do it again.
Quittin' Time
Walked out to a clients shed. He said he would like the Electrician to do a little extra work to upgrade the shed wiring.
He pointed at some lamp wiring etc. I asked him if we ought to replace the sub panel fuse box.
He said, " No, i am not worried about that blowing, its got steel pipe in place of the fuses"
Re:" No, i am not worried about that blowing, its got steel pipe in place of the fuses"
I have seen that many times, the more popular variation is a piece of copper pipe. and it never fails to amaze me. Once saw the results of this sort of thing. The lines overheated until the insulation burned off and then they started arcing until the copper melted. This went up the line from the unfused AC unit, big commercial model, into the panel with more solid copper tubing in place of fuses, through the meter and up the line to the transformer.
It stopped where the conductors parted to make connections at the transformer. When the distance between the three hots and neutral, three phase power, was large enough that the arc couldn't jump the space it stopped arcing and cooled down. I hear it was quite a light show.
On the up side the owner saved having to repair the AC for about six months and about $20 on the cost of six fuses. The repair went into the thousands and cost him the contents of several commercial freezers that were also fed from the same panel. He was lucky the building didn't burn down.
One of my favorite DIY stories is my Dad's neighbor who built his own house. Nicest guy you'd ever meet, but............Let's just say they didn't put the prize in his happy meal.
Before they poured the basement floor, they put in 4" perforated drain tile inside the footings, and ran it to daylight. They also put in 4 floor drains.
No sense buying all the 4" PVC to run the floor drains into, though. Why not save money by running it all into the 4" perf tile?
A few years later, the 4" perf run going to daylight collapsed. Now whenever it rains the perf tile undef the floor fills up, then the water comes up through the floor drains.I disagree with unanimity.
Wow Luka, those are pretty wild stories but since this is my game I'm going to throw in the bullsh*t flag because I don't believe either one of them. Doesn't sound like the US military I was in, and it wasn't too long ago if you drilled with m-16's.
I seem to recall that when we jumped in with full gear for the water survival training, there was 6 or 8 trained survival swimmers in the pool, and if you showed any sign of drowning, they threw you out of the pool faster than you could say "wow".
And the guys laying in the road; why wouldn't they just say "hell no" when told to lay down across the road? Who the hell would just lay there? I'd rather go to court martial than get run over by a truck.
Anyhow, this forum was intended to be about crazy and ignorant household repairs found by the pros.
Edited 2/27/2003 5:30:07 PM ET by MFG_KING
You are calling me a liar.
I was there.
I don't lie.
This is not ####.
Believe it or don't, that is up to you. I am not going to try to convince you.
Plenty of the other stories in this thread are about military experiences. You don't get to throw down some kind of guidelines to the thread. Not even if what someone posts makes your beloved military look not so spit-shined.
I have blown up on this forum a few times. I have made a fool of myself many times. I have wasted a lot of bandwidth.
But I have never lied.
I do not make things up, (or repeat things I have 'heard') that sound cool, or that support my 'position'... then claim that it is personal experience.
Quittin' Time
"Liar" or "bullsh*tter" whatever you want to call it is fine. I'm not looking for an argument or convincing.
I'm just trying to steer my forum back on track to stories about stuff you contractors have found that is just way out of whack. Next thing I know this will turn into one of those damn anti war arguments that have contaminated almost every thread in here.
Who else out there has some amazing "DIY" stories? These things crack me up!
The most astonishing piece of building I ever encountered was a two story house that had been built by a HO.
The new owner had hired me to do a number of minor cosmetic changes, but it was one of those projects that grew into a file of Oh My Gods....like the #6 220 range circuit that had numerous 120 tap-offs to recepticals joined with duct tape.
But the part I remember most: The upstairs main living area cantilevered over the first level about 6 feet. While the house was only about 15 years old, the cantilevered section was starting to sag. This cantilevered section was about 40 feet long and was full of large windows that looked over a bay.
The plan was to carefully jack the overhang back to level and run a line of posts and beams, effectively proping up the cantilever. Now I had assumed that the building was sagging due to excess weight on the cantilever joists which, I assumed, ran continuously back into the house.
What I discovered, however, was that the entire upstairs cantilever was being supported by the endwall sheathing and whatever strength the trusses provided from their attachment to an interior bearing wall. The rest of the "cantilever" joists were attached to the building with....joist hangers.
Jees. About when did this occur? Those are some hair raising stories. Anyone doing either of those things in the military today would die in Leavenworth. Drill Seargents get jail time for troops getting heat stroke nowadays. A DS forcing you to jump in in full gear wouldn't be allowed period. Maybe if you're practicing for amphibeous landings and with several life gaurds on hand.
Still amazing the things the army expects you to be able to do with little to no sleep. Amazing we didn't all kill ourselves
One of my wife's relatives told me once why he got out of the gaurd: Last night of summer training, the CO brings in an ammo trailer full of liquor, most everyone gets boozed up. One guy freaked out over something and started stabbing people with a bayonet. Some died. Said standing there watching all these drunk idiots trying to disarm this guy, then trying to guide in a medivac chopper, and nearly getting stabbed himself, convinced him to get out.
They're pretty strict on allowing booze nowadays. It's not allowed in the field at all. Still had one field exercise where the captain allowed it. Amazing no one got hurt. That captain was a nice guy, piss-poor commander, just didn't have any sense. He stuck his neck way out allowing alcohol. Got yanked as CO latter for acting like an immature kid, which he was, at the firing range. He actually started an argument, that almost turned into a fight, because some hot brass from the guy next to him went down his shirt during firing(happens to everyone). He drops his M16, jumps up, bumps his weapon, still loaded, it ends up nearly pointing at the gal next to him. She's smart enough to set her weapon down and back off. Also smart enough to report him. The range safeties grabbed him. Nice guy, glad to see him replaced. He was dangerous.
Usually the UCMJ it tough, but I think you're right it's sometimes used to protect people in the military from the consequences of their actions. Though I don't think that's as true as it used to be.
1. I believe luka.
2. The military has changed. recruits carry cards in boot camp to show when they feel insecure or some ####, i hear. My father is career navy, still works as a civilian and travels to bases. He says you see more pregnant sailors than he can believe. maternity uniforms are a common item now. unreal.
I got out 10 years ago, at the onset of the change. My basic still permitted physical abuse of recruits. Probably the way it should be. Fort Leonward was for p***'s, ds's couldn't touch recruits. I spent a good 30 mins in the gas chamber with a mask that wouldn't seal. Dehydration constantly. sleep deprivation. good preparation to what they get now.
I had a combat assignment at permanent duty, border patrol west germany during the fall of the wall in the calvary. We lost men to hostile gunfire. Things were terrible on the e german side for several years before their ***government collapsed***, and things are pretty damn bad for a gov't to collapse.
The military is a big organization. Things are different in different places. Where I was at we were in the lt col's fiefdom at his whim. We had 1% casualties all 3 years there. SOMEONE died every time we went to gunnery, not necessarily our unit. Guys would shells in their arms on the M-1's between cycles, instead of waiting for the breech to drop and the ammo mag to open up to transfer a shell. If you've ever seen an M-1 rock after firing, it comes way off the ground in front. That's why the treads turn up so sharp at the front/back. I saw a powder charge go off because a guy was holding hte shell in his arms (big heavy thing) having taken an extra one out to cut his cycle time. Incinerated everyonel.
And dumb ####? Lots of it.
remodeler
A guy I worked with told me how his grandfather shut off the power to the main - bolt cutters!
Some changes to the military have been good. The emphasis on safety being one of them. Few people die in training now, other then aircraft accidents. Though some of it's stupid. The army actually thinks it's safer to travel in convoy at 45 MPH, rather then 55-60. How turning an 8 hour trip into a 10-11 hour trip makes you safer is beyound me.
Boot camp was too easy. It's been sissyfied further since I was there. The marines are the only group that still uses boot camp to prepare people for combat. It's so easy in the Army, anyone can make it through.
We had to walk through the bayonet training course, because it was too hot. Since I went through they've started mixing men and women in the same training groups. People involved in training have told me the physical training has gone to S--t since they did so. Have to keep everything slowed down so the females can keep up. Main result, the guys don't get in nearly as good of shape.
Sexist comment I suppose, but I've only met one lady in the military that could keep up with all the pushups, situps, and running. She could outdo me on situps, pushups, and run faster. But, 3-4 hours packing 50 lbs of gear wore her out. I took over carrying some of her gear. 50 lbs. of gear is a light load for a grunt. In boot camp I weighed myself once after an all night road march, and was carrying 100 lbs. of gear. In war, I'd have had another 50+lbs of ammo and explosives. A DS I know said they've had to reduce both the length of road marches, and the amount of weight carried. How this is gonna make these folks ready for war is beyound me. Seen too many short marches where after 3-4 miles some of the guys are carrying the ladies M-16's and some of their gear, and walking slower so they can keep up.
Wow. The sad thing is, if we ever went to war - in asia, africa? - people would die for lack of adequate training.
> The army actually thinks it's safer to travel in convoy at 45 MPH, rather then 55-60. >How turning an 8 hour trip into a 10-11 hour trip makes you safer is beyound me.
We convoyed on the autobahn frequently at 35 mph, which was about as fast as the five-ton trucks would move. It's wild to see a car scoot by you over 100 mph faster than you're moving.
I'll push my son to go marine. The service when I was in was a violent place to be. A guy who fell out on forced marches forced his platoon mates to carry him. So he was highly encouraged not to. oh well.
I have a d-i-y story, just last night. I'm doing a kitchen remodeling and I have a hot AC line that went to the alarm box the last owner installed. It is wire nutted and hanging from the ceiling in a coil after demoing that wall, and I went to track it down in the attic last night. I was in the right area but on top of the ceiling light fixture in the kitchen. I felt a rat's nest under the cellulose and thought, that must be where the alarm terminates. NOPE. four lines in, one is the light switch and one the feed, all the wire-nutting and electrical taping done on top of the fixture box. And a hot lead exposed under the wire nut.
So I'm losing more respect for the guy. He built an addition and didn't leave weep holes in the brick, causing the walls to rot out. I have to figure the wiring out this weekend - my guess is the other two lines feed a closet, because a 3x4 cedar closet has TWO electrical outlets in it and that seems very odd to me, and it's close to the said junction box. Also, I've noticed the light in the addition flickers every now and then even when no appliances are firing up, etc. to cause a pressure drop in the line. I have to trace it out to see what's going on.
Why would lights flicker for no reason?
remodeler
>Why would lights flicker for no reason?
Rodents ?
Quittin' Time
Loose mechanical connection under a wire nut. Hot or nutral. The wires are just barely touching and arcing. Minor vibrations of any kind will aggrivate the symtoms. Find one - suspect all. Hot return to poor earth bond. Hot return nutral.
Gas chamber... The DI needs a free hand so he hands the 'cruit 2 CS tabs and says "Here take these".... You know what happened next. Stress cards came into being after I seperated. Still find them hard to believe.
THE UPS MAN IS MY FRIEND.....NEW 750 XL PRO....
Luka,
My father did boot camp at Paris Island in '68, he tells me you're probably not bullsh*tting anyone with swim stories. Everyone here describes you as being very credible so I give you my most sincere apology for doubting you. I hope you do understand however because those stories are very unusual to the military I was in ('90's) but times really were different back then.
Once again, my apologies.
No better man than one who can do as you just did.
My hand is out to you!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Thank you.
: )
Apology accepted.
And my own given for all the names I spat at the screen. LOL
It doesn't take much of a man to insult someone. But it takes a great man to apologize to another. I'm glad to meet you. Next beer is on me.
Quittin' Time
Stress cards...
http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm
Quittin' Time
I'm so glad that was untrue about the stress cards!
I want one of those cards. Maybe several would be better. "Get out of ....... free" cards would be good to have on hand.
Joe H
Maybe they can be expanded to Anti flake cards.
It still hard to comprehed those cards. Remember out behind the barracks episodes. KP. Live fire. CCF. Extra duty and a long list of other not so nice sh*t.
MORE TOYS NOW....
How about a "I'm airhead proof" card.
MORE TOYS NOW.....
Back to the subject at hand, I just got a phone call from a customer. I had given her a ballpark budget figure. In the letter, I discussed various things that could impact the final price, asking for her decisions, and stated very clearly, "None of the budget figures refered to herein are intended to be taken as a firm bid or proposal."
Her call today started out with, "I got the money. I borrowed it from the bank based on your bid..."
What do you do with people who can't read the language in a letter, let alone a contract?.
Excellence is its own reward!
Get a "STRESS CARD" for your yourself.
What is so unusual about others not being able to read or comprehend. Consider a "buffer" that you would be comfortable with. Dealing with these people on the long run can be a serious drain. The mentality is, is... askew. Some times they just do not have a hold on things.
Not sure what a stress card is. She is a little flakey. My stress card is that I can bail now or if I decide to take on the job, I will write the contract so that I have total control and use deposits and draws sceduled to be sure that I am always paid in front. If I decide she is too flakely, she'll have to find someone else. I can live without her better than she can live without me..
Excellence is its own reward!
I just made an ignorant boo-boo myself.
A customer wants to match their existing doorknob on a new linen closet with a black poorcelan one so I found images on the Emtek site and emailed them for approval.
I entitled the message, "Ebony knobs"
Now imagine how that looks in the context of many spam e-mails nowdays.
LOL
I got to see it that way when they replied to me..
Excellence is its own reward!
I usually try to lay all of the payment schedules out in the initial contract with drawls due upon "sustantial completion" of milestones.
I figure their loan person is in the, well loan budnis, not me.
I try to stay ahead on the payments, that way I have maybe two weeks of leaway to recongnize the contract/job will blow up. Haven't had one yet(Thank god) I would never take advantage of this float, just use it to buy time to iron things out.
My 2 scents (whew that smells)
Maybe I should have said - Get a "STRESS CARD" for yourself.... ;-)
Jump up to .101 and open the deal on the stress card. That'll explain everything.
Flakey can be dangerous. Most of the time the lens cap is on their mind's eye. Their favorite words seems to be 'but I'. GetthestresscardPiff.
What kind of work do you do?
MORE TOYS NOW....
I see. Luka snuck it in and posted it a couple minutes before my post so it went up while I was typing and I missed it..
Excellence is its own reward!
"We convoyed on the autobahn frequently at 35 mph, which was about as fast as the five-ton trucks would move."
How long ago was that? The ones I drove in the early 80s (Which were from the 50s and 60s) would go about 55 MPH.Bachelors know more about women than do married men; if they didn't, they'd be married, too.
We could get the 5-tons up to 55-60 with no problems too. It was those stinking dues and a halfs that never could keep up. And heaven help you if you ever had to convoy with a C (those truck looking tractor things that make an ok backhoe, but the front bucket breaks if you move anything but loose sand), them buggers are slow on smooth roads. Any bumps and you have to slow down.
In AIT I ended up driving a deus briefly, without a license. Our Philipeano DS couldn't drive a stick. Beat the tar out of us in the back of the truck trying. Finally got stuck trying to turn around. Came around back anyone know drive truck? Let me drive in most of the way, then when we got where there might be MP's I just sat beside him and told him to push the clutch in while I shifted. Still about jarred your eyeballs loose when he let it out.
Did find a HMVV is only good for about 60MPH on a flat road if you're lucky. Ran one of my troops in to the hospital, he'd improperly lubed the road wheels, got grease shot in his eyes. I had it floored and the whole way he's leaning over moaning, can't you go any faster?
Military rigs just aren't built for speed.
I understand that fewer soldiers died during the 8 months of Desert Storm than would have died during a similar period of time were they at their normal bases. The reason, alcohol. There wasn't any in Saudi Arabia, which cut down on the number of stupid things people do when they are drunk. When I was in Chapel Hill, about once a month a couple of soldiers from Fayetteville would die at 4AM on the way back to base after a hard night partying on Franklin Street.
One of my buddies used to send me a safety directive sent out by an Army Colonel documenting all the stupid things that people did to maim or off themselves or others during the previous month. There truly is no limit to stupidity. To summarize, cutting corners usually results in something/someone else being cut.
I've got two reasons that I believe Luka
#1
Luka is believable. I know him that well. he's got no motivation to lie.
#2
I've heard just enough of the same storey from other guys I know who have been in
Besides, I know tha the military has changed since then - but I bet it still can happen here and there..
Excellence is its own reward!
>I've got two reasons that I believe Luka
Not to mention it being in bad taste to question the word of someone who's done you no wrong. Luka may not have much stuff, but he's done a fine job of maintaining his dignity.
Still, while it is tasteless to call someone a liar here with no reason, I can understand that sometimes we are overwhelmed with the enormity of having to accept as fact, a thought that is unacceptable to a civilized mind. That very fact of human nature is why certain things do continue. Those who perpetuate them know that most people will not accept them as real, in the same way that we might have a hard time accepting that some of the other ignorant happenings reported here have indeed been discovered.
In that, I can understand the difficulty experienced by the one who challengerd the veracity of Luka's report, though he surely needs to appologize to Luka.
I also feel deeply for luka and anyone who has to continue through life bearing this memory and the emotional scars it must cause. None of us is immune to life - or death, but in the difficult memories I have to bear, none compares to this fatal tale.
Be well, Luka!
.
Excellence is its own reward!
>I can understand the difficulty experienced by the one who challenged the veracity of Luka's report, though he surely needs to apologize to Luka.
I also feel deeply for luka and anyone who has to continue through life bearing this memory and the emotional scars it must cause.
Hear, hear. After knowing Luka for a few years now, and hearing some of the stories, I'm thinking of changing my name to Pollyana, be/c that's the kind of life I've lead. Same thought crosses my mind when I hear the limited tales shared by a friend who was a medic in Nam. Man's inhumanity to man...
Wow... I saw some things in the army but THAT beats all. Likely to give somebody ac@seofthe@ss towards authority figures.
BILLY;
I use to play with SOME REALLY NICE TOYS, special weapons, heavy weapons, special munitions and heavy munitions. NBC. Found myself attached to a varity of different units. The Engineers were one of them. Also HQ & HQC in the 51 series. (spare time thing) Went in Aug '66. Disabled out in '81. Got my shorts eaten. Never a LIFER, RIFF, LEG, 11 bush or REM. Always 1A line.
I just remember the CEV having a 165mm Demo gun. It is / was a serious can of wooopass. The 155 as a howitzer. Things change that much? LAWs not worth much except against dug ins and tin. '79s were the real thing. 203's as a new fangled gizzmo. Didn't like it much.
When we went to the pool there were no stand by swimmers. A brick can swim better than I can.
GOT ME SOME NEW TOYS TODAY.....FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW.....
Yep, the CEV has a serious bunker buster. Real short barrel, not accurate to much range.
The howitzers I dealt with were the M109 self-propelled. Big tracked animal. The 203 works ok, not as good as the old 79's I understand, but you have a rifle as well. I liked having both options. Still when we played infantry games I tried to carry an M60 when possible.
We also had a M2 50 cal, and a Mk19 chain fed grenade launcher. That's a serious piece of equipment, if you can keep it working.
Now, as far as DIY screw-ups. When I bought my present house, there was a ceiling fan in a goofy spot. Thing wobbled like crazy. One day I have to go up in the attic for something, so I decide to look at it.
Someone had attatched a metal box to some 2x4's. Hooked the fan base to that, then ran the extender pipe through a smallhole in the ceiling. Never attatched the 2x4's to anything, just laid them on the trusses. The box was open, full of insulation, and buried in it. Not that it mattered much, most of the wires, which did have wire nuts, weren't even shoved in the box anyway, just splayed out wherever. Amazing it had never shook the sheetrock loose.
Hopefully, I've found all the splices up there that are just wirenutted together and shoved under the insulation. I've looked hard. Think I've found 2.
my last unit was a 155 (towed)... 14 men to a gun crew.. and you really knew it when the crews were short and you had to shift trails...
all the guns in 'nam were modified with a ball joint under the center of gravity to give them 360 deg traverse... one guy could shift trails.. we could never get the mod. in the guard unit...
bore sight and direct fire were pretty cool ...so was ramming a round out of cool tube..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Very glad I never worked with towed artillery. Self-propelled is work enough. We had a crew of 8-9, or were supposed to. For safety reasons, we couldn't fire w/o a crew of 6. But, 3-4 guys could do it in a pinch. 1 if you don't want to fire very fast.
Right after I got out, they upgraded to the Pallidin series, worlds of improvement. You can set up and fire w/o ever getting out of the gun, so you can work in a chemical environment more safely. Still have to wear masks, but they are hooked to a central filtration system. can even heat the air you're breathing in cold weather. Think the gun we had was built in the 60's.
Really monotonous job. But, direct fire is always fun. Miss getting to see things blow up. Never could get comfortable shooting at things I cannot see.
We did have a shell go off right in front of a gun once doing direct fire. The base of the round, about 4-5 lbs of metal flew right over the heads of people sitting on the stands watching. Never could figure out what happened. Everyone figured they'd screwed up and put a time fuse on. But, the paperwork showed they'd fired a PD fuse. Defective I guess, only one I ever saw that was.
The Germans had a 20mm crew served shoulder fired 5 shot hydraulic dampened rifle similar to our 50 cal Barretts made by SIG. That thing was awesome. 5k plus meter range. Hitting some thing out that far was a different story. Computer / laser assisted sighting and targeting built into the 300mm bell and 60x power scope. 45+ pounds. (21 Kilos w/o the the T&E) Took a crew to carry the rounds.
Didn't you know that ceiling fans were suppose to hung with 2 butterfly mollies directly into the DW and zip cord wiring. Blocking and braceing isn't important.
Those popped floor tiles could not have had anything to do with junior blasting through on his roller blades now could it.
OH THE TOYS I DREAM OF.....
The Steyer-AUG is a bullpup style rifle where the chamber sits pretty much right next to your ear. It was what the big blonde guy carried in Die Hard. Nice in 9, worriesome in 556.
Unbelievable!
I was always under the opinion that about 10% of our society was screwed up but now I'm increasing that estimate to 20%
one of the things that has always amazed me in commercail roofing is when electrical circuits (two wire in condiut)is run on top of the roof deck than hid in the roof insulation so when the the roof is replaced the conduit is always damaged and suprizing enough its code here Ihave found it completly rusted away in bath house run by local citys, think of the unsuspecting bare wet bather reahing for that light swith on the wall
Your story of "roof windows" reminded me of something I heard once.
The parents of a girl I dated told me their contractor had installed their windows backwards when they hired their house built. (By the cheapest contractor ?) The windows were installed from INSIDE the house. They didn't realize it until the first time it rained, and water ran into the house.
Didn't see it myself. But it would be hard to imagine someone making that up.You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoes and wonder what else you can do while you're down there.
A local builder played developer, back about 1980. He bought up a tract of land in an estate, and platted it into individual lots. This was going like gangbusters. So good, that a couple of his foremen quit to become builders themselves. Some of the houses they built are fascinating. One even has a "signature" of sorts: the sliding glass patio doors are all installed backwards. I've added security pins to so many, it's almost habit (easy to spot, with the burglar bar on the outside . . . ) Which begs the question of why they didn't notice the screen door track on the inside . . .
hate to say it but the "backwards " sliding glass patio doors might be legit. I had one and saw several others when I lived in Anchorage Alaska. the thershold was pitched to the outside and all of the hardware was in its normal place.
Now if you want to talk about bonehead door manufactures this does take the cake . Try to open one these with leaves and dirt or ice in the track.
No I don't think you can limit stupidity to only indivdules (sp) , some of the crap that is sold had to have been designed by morons.
Some other things to do with windows. Rotate a slider 90 degrees or inside out but the best way is still upside down.
Save money on plumbing. One central 1" vent for the entire house. Vaccum cleaner hose or a radiator hose for point A point B connections. Mix copper, black and galv as required in the water system and change sizes randomly for good measure.
3/8" ply for the roof deck. 1/2" for the house floor. 5 1/2" reveal on a 3 tab shingle. Do not use more than 2 staples per shingle. All those squares you can save. 3/8 DW everywhere. Modular home doors and hardware. Trim too. Skip cripples, jacks, trimmers and headers every chance you grt. Case for base and crown. 3 or 4 pins per 16' stick. Use lots and lots of that grainy turns yellow probably been frozen caulk.
Vynal tile 2' from the walls and add the throw rug.
Hatchet a hole in the supply duct drop in tap and cover wih sub floor. Hachet ragged hole in duct crush round to fit and leave as is. Use the dead space between the studs and joist for supply and return. No tin just close with the drywall.
This was the model home.
MORE TOYS...... MORE TOYS!!!!!
"Use the dead space between the studs and joist for supply and return. No tin just close with the drywall."
Hey, my new house has this for return, and it's allowed by code here.
Seems to be fine for returns done all the time but not for supplies. I've never done it for either. One of those can of worms things to me. Code, code is a mytical thing and far far away.....
Where is here? National says this is minimum that is to be done. City and county augmment to aditional levels. More than likely if you have been inspected and you passed you are OK.
MORE TOYS NOW...
I would like to chime in here about the problem house IMERC was speaking of.......
IT'S MINE!
I was fairly happy with the purchase until he and I started a 900 sq-foot-tile installation to replace 1970's-era-burnt-orange shag carpeting.
After stripping off the carpeting and vacuuming up 200+ lbs of sand, we had to remove the linoleum. But first we had to back out the uncountable 2 1/2 in drywall screws that one of the prior owners had put into the joists every 2-3 inches. We figure it was to keep the squeaking down to a dull roar.
So of course some of those broke the heads off. Making a problem for what followed:
After inspection we discovered the floor was warped between the joists, facilitating a complete sub-flooring job.
After installation of that, we started with the tile laying.... We were keeping the tile out in my connected garage, unheated natch, and when we brought them in to lay down, condensation formed on the bottom and the cement refused to stick to the now wet tiles. Can you say popped? Re-leased? Time to grind off the cement that did stick and retry?
We musta put down that damned floor a couple of times before we figured it would be prudent to let the tiles warm up to room temp before laying.
Also I was perfectly happy with the roof until a major league hail storm blew thruogh and wrecked what was three layers of t-locks.
Insurance will cover, but not the 4th layer, must strip off first three and start over. That is where we discovered 3/8 roofing material. The roofers had to use their lightest guys to keep from breaking through. Found that out the hard way and had to replave a few chunks of roofing. Got that done.
Electrical- House is 1970's era and was full of aluminum wiring. Not a good scene.
The phone lines? Hmmm, if it ever burned, it would would not fall down as it it is so well laced together with a hunert-jillion phone wires. Just about every room has been wired with a phone jack (Excluding the three bathrooms) but all the others at least once. We had a basketball sized bundle of wires in the basement which IMERC took a day to straighten out and place on phone blocks.
I think I need to refer back to him as I am too close to the forest to see the trees.
Later
Repete
Yup, that's a backfeed. They're not all that uncommon. The symptom is that turning off one of the breakers doesn't turn anything off. The best thing for this is a proximity sensor. Once you open a box, check every wire with the sensor. It only takes a few seconds, and protects you from both backfeeds and legit wiring where there are hot circuits you didn't find the first time.
-- J.S.
Old house, started in 1968 by a "builder." It was a spec, then became a semi-custom for three different buyers. My dad is transferred to Dallas in 1970. The builder is living a spec one street over, and finishing another on the end of the street. The builder promises he can fix any problems, since he's right there. Price was right, and the market was tight.
Front facade of the house, like almost all of that vintage in north Dallas has brick wing walls with light fixtures in the ends. There is a pair of light fixtures on either side of the double front door. Only one light in the entry. Three switches in a triple box by the door; a single at the entrance to the living room.
Experimentation proves fascinating. Right switch up; wing wall lights come on. Left switch up, and, right switch up is front door lights only. Left and right down, center up turns on the light in the entry.
Turns out that all of the fixtures were added after the rock veneer went on around the front door exterior and the entry drywall had flocked wallpaper up. Romex was spliced into to get power and switch connections made. East wing wall light gets power from a bedroom circuit. We've got a black wire here, now we need a white to back to the switch. But how? Strip about 30' of romex. Cut off 30' of black & ground wires. Wire nut black to black (from the CV below), and snake the white back to the switch. The 'uncut' romex now goes along the top plate, then down the outside of the corner, then into the footing for the wing wall (yes, that's plain old 12/2 aluminum romex submerged into 2 sack mix footing concrete). Not so bad heading west. All of the switch wires are stripped out of romex at the level of the top plate.
With the main cut off, experimentation identifies the pairs of wires for the four outside fixtures by continuity. That gets two of the switches sorted out. The three way switch for the entry takes much more work. Switches were called out at the framing stage (nearly two years ago), and wired--more or less--to some sort of plan. the plans has been changed 3-4 times since then. So, two switches, one light: get a pair of 3 ways. Attach wires until the set up works. Switch 1 is on one side of the panel. Switch 2 is on the other. The switches are not jumpered together and then to the light. Nope, the light is in the middle of two separate circuits with the switches to control the result. How's it run?
S1 off, S2 off: no current = no light.
S1 on, S2 off: Hot to lamp, neutral down either. Light on.
S1 off, S2 on; same as above. Light on
S1 on, S2 on: Hot to lamp on both sides; but no neutral to return. Light off.
Good thing there was never a fault to ground with both switches on, could have had a 220v arc welder for an entry light (for a while).
After 33 years in that house, it is almost ready to sell--without requiring a Tom Clancy-length disclosure statement . . .
My dad's house has tempted me to be it's on thread--how not to build a house. What did I do? Bought a 51 year old house almost as messed up (must have caught remo growing up :) . . .
WOW! That's amazing! You have to try to screw something up that bad. For all the effort put into wiring it the wrong, it could have been done correctly.
What is more amazing is that most of these improvised projects could have been markedly improved by spending $5 more on materials. Most of the examples provided lacked a box (50 cents), used zip wire instead of romex (break even), or went without wire nuts (10 cents each). I'm always amazed that people buy 2" deep boxes when a 3" would have made it so much easier, or the lengths they will go to to save an extra foot or Romex.
> WOW! That's amazing! You have to try to screw something up that bad. For all the effort put into wiring it the wrong, it could have been done correctly.
Hey MFG,
This will not top your story, but here goes anyway. I had done some renovating for a client several years back and had developed a good working relationship with them. A couple of years after I finished the renovation I received a phone call from this client saying that they had had a chimney fire and could I help with the cleanup and fixup effort ( I had no part in this chimney construction). The work was covered by the homeowners policy. In Connecticut after a chimney fire the chimney must be torn down and the flue rebuilt before the fireplace can be used again. After we took down the chimney we found two flues but only one cleanout. What was this idiot thinking about only putting in a cleanout to only one of the flues. The creosote and ash built up at the bottom of the flue until it conditions were right for it to ignite. This could have cost these people their lives and also the whole house could have burned down!!!!