Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | May 15, 2003 01:50am | #1

   wood is graded according to different regional rules..

   don't go by marketing descriptions....

   every piece of graded lumber has a "grade stamp"  on it.... and you can pretty much rely on the grade stamp..

   in lumber bigger than 2x4.... generally speaking.. #1 & #2 are pretty good.. the species is also  named on the grade stamp.. " hem/fir" , "syp", " dfir"  are fairly common..

     the method used for drying is also part of the grade stamp... "kd" means kiln dried..

   the # of the lumber mill is on the stamp.. and the mill is very cautious about complying with the grading rules so they will not lose thier certification.. since most building codes require that all structural lumber must be "graded" and stamped accordingly..

   when you go to a real lumber yard... most of the employees should know the basics of lumber grading .. and you can always check the stamp to determine if you are getting what you order

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   Schelling | May 15, 2003 05:13am | #2

   Mike Smith covers most of the bases. I would add:

   Most lumber is graded by sight as it passes the grader. He looks for knots and unusual grain and assigns a number.

   Lumber that is used in critical applications such as truss chords is graded by machine tests.( I don't know more than that)

   A certain percentage of any grade (10%?) is allowed to be a lower grade. I am sure that this is to cover errors of judgement by the graders.

   When you go to almost any lumber yard and look at the top of the pile you are looking at culls, boards that have been picked over and rejected by previous customers. The fact that the first twenty boards that you look at all stink is not the fault of the grader. These may be the worst twenty boards of the unit, or of the previous unit(s).

1. 
   BossHog | May 15, 2003 02:55pm | #3

   "Lumber that is used in critical applications such as truss chords is graded by machine tests."

   That's not necessarilly true. Some truss plants use almost all visually graded lumber. Some use nothing but MSR and MEL lumber. It varies depending on their location and what companies they buy stuff from.What's worse than have substandard work rejected is having substandard work in print WITH YOUR NAME ON IT.

2. 
   JohnSprung | May 16, 2003 03:00am | #5

   > A certain percentage of any grade (10%?) is allowed to be a lower grade. I am sure that this is to cover errors of judgement by the graders.

   Aha -- That covers the time I was culling through 10' 2x4's stamped "STD & BTR", and one of them had a knot so big in the middle that it broke in half when I picked it up.

   Lumber is a vegetable.  It's just like buying tomatoes at the supermarket, you have to look at them one by one.

   -- J.S.

3. 
   BossHog | May 15, 2003 02:56pm | #4

   Here are a couple of URLs you might find interesting. Haven't checked 'em lately to see if they're still good.

   http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ati_cons/grade/stamp.htm

   http://www.tarpin.com/faq.htm

   There's also a file attached that has some info about lumber grades and grading.

   Lumber quality can be good or bad just about anywhere. You can get good wood from a mill for months, then get 3 or 4 bad loads in. And the opposite is obviously true. No lumberyard ALWAYS has good or bad wood.

   Show me a man who thinks the same at 50 as he did at 20, and I'll show you a man who's wasted 30 years of his life. [Muhammad Ali]

1. 
   jonblakemore | May 17, 2003 07:06pm | #7

   Boss,

   I could not open either of your links.  Is it me? 

   Jon Blakemore

1. 
   BossHog | May 17, 2003 10:37pm | #9

   Jon -

   The links were set up so they'd work for everyone BUT you..........................(-:

   They were some old links I had run across in the past. Guess I should have checked 'em out before I posted.

   Sorry.Profanity sucks

1. 
   Rarebreed | May 18, 2003 05:15am | #10

   Timber Products Innspectors http://www.tpinspection.com/index.html and Southern Pine Inspection Bureau http://www.spib.org/ are two of the more common grading organizations that we run into here in the south.  They don't actually set the grades, but are more like auditors to insure the mills are grading to the standards.

    When I worked at a pallet mill in Missouri, we found that TPI inspected mills seemed to be "on grade" more often than SPIB mills. Some of the SPIB mills would send out really good lumber for a month or two then they would send out load after load of lumber that was overly waney, knotty, and often short. I have had to reject full tractor trailer loads of 2x6's because of large percentages of the boards being off grade. Of course the lumber brokers we were buying from would want to know what percent of the lumber was unusable, and would then negotiate a reduced price for the load with the sawmill that produced it.

   One thing none of the mills wanted you to do was to call TPI or SPIB and have them send out a field inspector to grade a load of lumber. I believe there were some fairly stiff penalties for not complying with grade.

    The best thing to do is work with what is available. Cut crooked or bowed pieces into shorter lengths, turn a waney edge in against a board with a full edge, and so on.

   TCW Specialists in Custom Remodeling.

   Edited 5/18/2003 7:21:57 AM ET by Tim Thompson

1. 
   bobtim | May 18, 2003 05:49pm | #11

   My local lumber yard (the only one on the island) seems to get nothing but waney lumber. It is not an exaggeration to say 80% 0f a bunk of #2and better Hem-Fir has wane on it. Of corse if you complain they tell you to buy the much more expensive Doug fir.

   And another thing, why is "hem-fir" always hemlock and never Fir?

2. 
   FrankB89 | May 18, 2003 06:26pm | #12

   If you're thinking "fir" refers to Doug Fir, it does not.  Hem-fir is a group of species including hemlock, grand fir or any of the other 'true firs.'  DF is not a true fir. 

4. 
   fdampier5 | May 16, 2003 04:03am | #6

   wood or lumber?

     there is a differance.. Hardwood is graded by it's own rules and grading system.

     FAS is first and seconds.. supposedly the first and second cut off a log which is supposed to be the most free of knots and defects. Select and better is a step down and then you get into all kinds of regional differances and species differances..  wood that is grade in one part of the country is graded according to these rules and in another part grade according to  a differant set of rules..

     Maple for example has three distinctly differant regional rules and it depends on weither it's hard or soft maple.  Then there are premium selections that affect things.. for example one broker may want all white wood while another may accept the brown color more common in the center of a log..

      Sold Locally Black Walnut is degraded for having juvinile wood showing  however some buyers pay premium prices and don't care how much juvinile wood shows..

      But I suspect that  you're just doing the common complaint that I hear so often here.. This big box store sells junk wood..

     well if you've been working with wood as long as I have you know that The average store gets it's share of average wood.. and just like the tree it grew from there will be some defects..  if you scrounge into a pile there will be better boards..  (be kind and restack),  but too often I see the hobbiest or homeowner site carefully down the board and reject any that are slightly crowned or twisted.. only to cut into short pieces someplace..

     If you want premium wood,

    expect to pay a real premium price for somebody else sorting thru the wood for you.

     Mom and Pop lumber yards buy from the same sawmills as the big box stores.. They can no more afford to throw out a warped 2x4 than you could throw away a couple of tens..   what they do is put it in the middle of a stack of lumber to be delivered..

         Wood is usually shipped pretty green. 19% moisture on arrival is common.. the boards coming from the middle of that pile may seem perfectly straight untill they dry out..  then check them out..  but ususally they are under sheet rock and the homeowner is making payments before it becomes real noticable..

     A clear case of what you don't know won't hurt you..

5. 
   RW | May 17, 2003 09:07pm | #8

   "Minimum requirements for grading factory lumber" table, from Understanding Wood, Hoadley, c 2000, Taunton Press.

   Excel spreadsheet, SM refers to surface measure of the board in square feet.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters