How it best retrofit porch balcony with brackets
My house has a covered balcony over the front porch – 16′ long by 5′ deep, supported by 3 columns on the front and half column/posts in the back corners against the house both on the first floor as well as on the balcony (supporting the roof). It does not appear to be cantilevered, as it’s floor is about 5 inches lower than the interior floor. The roof line flattens slightly in pitch from the main house, but extends all the way out to overhand the balcony.
i want to remove the roof from the balcony (will be creating faux gable dormers over the windows to improve the roofline) as well as replace the columns with architectural brackets (I plan to make these using hardwoods, once I figure out the necessary dimensions/elements for the required load bearing).
Can anyone tell me how to go about figuring out:
a) the best way to attach the brackets
b) how it determine the load bearing requirements of each bracket and then the necessary dimensions of the brackets in order to achieve this load bearing.
Please don’t tell me off the cuff to go get an engineer, because I definitely will before actually executing on this endeavour. I am in the discovery phase if this project and want to have the most fulsome understanding of the requirements before I begin shelling out $$ on the engineering drawings, etc.
so teach me or point me in a direction – I am here to learn!!
thanks!
Stamper
Replies
will you use archtectural brackets or will you be making your own?
simpson makes a line of hangers/brackets they call archtectural. If your replacing post for brackets then you will need structural support that you should be hard pressed to be able to make out of hardwood and stay within the minimum requirements to support your roofline.
learn this:
You've only just begun to scratch the surface of providing the necessary informaiton needed to consider your design project. Even if you do continue to post more insight for someone (such as the first, ahem, good sport) to bat around like a kitten bats a yarn ball, the chances of a professional engineer extending their liability in order to provide you with a "complimentary" design solution is remote. Engineers get paid everyday for the kind of work you're requesting in this forum. Get real.
Anyhow, here's your first few learning experineces for free:
1.There is no prescriptive code for your design project.
2.You will almost certainly need an engineer to seal a solution which will allow you to obtain a building permit. Start by hiring one.
3. You may also need an architect while you're at it. They usually don't work for free either.
I hope things get better for you.
Deadnuts
It seems to be that there must be tough stuff happening in your life right now for you to want to attack and shame a newbie and admitted novice that freely admits her lack of knowledge as well as her desire to learn. I reread my post and think that I clearly stated my intent to retain an engineer at a later point - and that I was simply in the discovery process right now.
Rather than "speaking" down it a novices who are unaware if what they don't know, may I suggest that you help them to understand all the strata and substrata of information and understanding that they are lacking. Point them in the direction of good educational resources, illustrate ways that their issue could be broadly addressed, and so forth. These forums are for the likeminded to 'bat ideas around', to educate, to ask questions, not to attack or belittle.
i do hope that you will be able to take my response in the spirit that it was given- in gentleness and understanding. Because I suspect that you have tremendous knowledge and experience to add to this forum... Don't drown it out in petty and harsh responses.
All the best.
Stamper
Surprised...
Surprised Deadnuts' head did not explode when she mentioned wood!!! Plastic is more his style.
Engineeer likely necessary as she is already aware. A 16 foot long 5 foot extension is no small feat. As for archy? Depends on how artsy she is or if she has picture of what she likes.
JMHO
Here's some substrata...
stamper471 wrote:
Deadnuts
...I was simply in the discovery process right now.
What are you reasonably trying to discover at this point with your initial "strata" of inquiry? How to physically attach brackets which have yet to be defined, sized, or configurated by an engineer and/or architect? Or are you wishing to discuss all theoretical applications of possible brackets which you may be dreaming about?
Just trying to help you out with your design process here because the latter would be a clear example of putting the cart before the horse.
Brackets
I agree with your approach and your evaluation of Mr. Deadnuts. There is nothing wrong with asking for information or ideas on a project, so that when you go to an engineer you are armed with as much info as possible, with the idea if you have your homework done you might lessen the impact ($$$$) of an engineer. After all, the owner know more about what they prefer aesthetically so that they can steer the engineer in that direction from the beginning. In the end, the owner gets what they like and the engineer makes it stand up!
here is a link to simpsons line i mentioned. These are used for aiding connections, mostly in timber framing, they are not cheap, but they are great of a beefier hanger, or for some not so common brackets and straps you may find anywhere else.
http://www.strongtie.com/products/apg/classic.html
Simpsons Strong Ties
Mark122,
thanks for the info! I have actually run across these before and I will most definitely give them a second look. Really appreciate it.
To what will you attach these brackets? If you attach them to ordinary 2x4 framing in the house, the 2x4s will likely not be able to withstand the bending force on them and the balcony will sag.
The "half columns" against
The "half columns" against the house... I assume you are describing pilasters. Are you sure these are actually structural and not simply "applied" as a decorative element (like on the portico-porch on the side of my 1930-ish house)? The actual structural support then is provided by the "connection" (to use a non-technical term) between the ceiling/floor joists and structure of the house itself (i.e. the wall studs or a ledger attached to the studs). Hard to tell without doing some exploratory surgery.
Sorry, I think I misread/misinterpreted your post. Please ignore my reply.
I seriously doubt whether what you want to do is practical. I suspect that the brackets and reenforced half-columns you'd need would be so large and ugly that you wouldn't like it if you went forward with it.
You MIGHT get lucky and have it turn out that the structure is accidentally sufficient to handle the load, but you need that engineer to tell you that.
sure there is...
stamper471 wrote:
Are there sources out there to help me determine the calculations necessary to ensure my brackets could support the weight? (I am no dummy, having graudated cum laude in undergrad and with an MBA under my belt, I feel like I could sort out some mathematical formulas).
Absolutely. I can think of two. One would be consulting with a professional engineer. The second would be obtaining a degree in civil engineering or similar. Even with your business degrees taken into account, I suspect the first option would be cheaper and less time consuming.
Cheers!
Stamper,
I could see doing this with some steel that went to the ground, through the rim joist and out to the end of the deck. Cover this with your decorative wood bracket. Need to span the front 16' with some nice treated 2x12s.
Talk to a good remodeling contractor, not one that jumps around yelling about injuneers!
KK