I have been working hard for the last three and a half years trying learn as much as I can about carpentry and the construction bussiness. Most of it has been high end custom homes. The last one was a 7000 sq ft custom home, top of the line with a lot of trim work and built-ins which we built start to finish. I worked with one other carpenter (he is a master with 25yrs experience) on this project as well as on a barn renovation, several kitchen and bathroom remodels, a bunch of wood roofs several additions and some other smaller projects. Because it has been just the two of us and I have had to take on a lot of responsibity during all of these projects and have learned a lot. From the begining he has trusted me to handle all phases of these projects. I made a lot of mistakes but have come a long way. I have also done about a dozen side jobs (finished 2 basements, a couple of roofs a couple of decks etc.) I spent my first 6 months working for a framing and roofing company. Do you guys think three years in this type of environment is enough for me to figure it out on my own? I plan to start with small projects and work my way up over time. What have your experiences been.
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why do you want to leave and start on your own ?
tell us more about the company you are already working for
Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Lugal,
Sounds like you've learned alot about the craftsmanship end via on the job training. Good job. Now I would see if you can tap the resources of your employer to learn some of the business practices as they are just as important as knowing the trade. Things like estimating, scheduling, leagl aspects of the biz, etc. Of course your employer isn't going to just tell you everything you need to know overnight, but maybe if they see you have an interest in how the business runs you'll not only learn the aspects along the way but also have more responsibility and maybe make more $$$ in the company.
Most folks are willing to help someone learn as I don't know of any big proprietary trade secrets in construction. It just takes time to acquire the knowledge.
And believe me, knowing the craft is only half the job when it comes to running your own business. The other 50% is being a businessman, accountant, ad agent, legal rep, and so on and so on. And if you don't have all 100%, its a long hard way to earn a living.
Good luck!
Mike
Mike, I'll back you up on that one! I'm doing the OJT thing now and it's definitely alot to learn.Steve
S.J.MERRETTE Carpentry & Construction • Robesonia, PA
Nothing is impossible...It just hasn't been done yet.
Before you leave, take a night course in accounting at your local community college and maybe one in business law as well. This can save you from learning too many lessons the hard way.
It's like the price of a Roller; if you have to ask, then it's not for you.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phil,
Nice to know someone in this world has all the answers, how long has it taken you to become an all knowing expert at everything?
Just wondering.
Everyone has answers, except you..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
OK, Here's a short answer.
Nails,
This is what I hate about this new format. You want to post your message to the original author.
Lugal, one of the most important things I've learned is to respect my own councel more than others when choosing what to do with myself. If you choose it, do it! If you like the pace at which you are learning now, just wait! There's nothing like being on your own for learning all aspects of the business and craft.
Tom
Do it, and work your butt off to make it work for you. I started my own trim carpentry after 2 years. I do good work for a fair price.
Get insurance, get an attorney, getan accountant. Go for it . Youve got what it takes dont make it complicated. My very best wishes to you . The pride of an old carpenter is seeing his man step up to the next level.
lugal.. these threads always seem to work best if they are dialogues.... you know.. you ask a question, someone responds.. you nod your head.. or ask something else....
course, i could be wrong about this
Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Lots and lots of folks spend a couple years in one aspect of our profession and jump into business as a subcontractor in that area. That's fine if what they want to be is a "framer", or "trim carpenter". They make good money a lot earlier in their careers than they would if they worked for several different companies, for , say 10 years or so.
If my son asked me the best way to become a carpenter, a craftsman, I'd tell him he would first off have to enjoy the work. Then I'd recommend he plan on spending 8, or 10 years working for a fairly wide variety of companies - from companies that do a lot of remodelling and custom building, to commercial contractors, to subcontractors like framers, cabinet makers, stair builders, roofers, foundation and flat workers, insulaters, rockers...the more the better, of course some require longer stays than others.
Over those years he'd see the advantages of and learn many of the production techniques subs develop as well as the vision it takes to take on large scale projects start to finish. He'd also learn to work with a wide variety of other people and realize the importance of one trade on another.
I guess what I'm saying is, even in the absolute optimum setting, for the ultimate apprentice, after three or four years you're only scratching the surface. If you really do care about becoming what used to be called a carpenter, if you aspire to make a career out of it, give yourself more time. You're just getting started. Build a solid foundation of skill first.
Of course, if what you want to be is a "contractor", that's a whole different profession, with a seperate skill set. I can't speak to that.
Jim....Word brotherman.... Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Thanks for your input. I agree with you but am having trouble paying my bills as an employee. My belt is so tight my legs are going numb. I guess it is a classic problem.
Impressive answer. I agree that working for different people/companies really helps. It shows you there are many good ways to do the same thing, and it shows you stuff that the prior guy might have been too limited to do. I'd take multiple teachers over a single mentor any day.
Most people I know who have to get around the "I can't afford to be an employee" get around that at first by moonlighting.
Mike,
I have never posted before so I have not got the hang of it yet.
lugalg
Lugal, just remember that you have to pay for your education one way or another. If you stay with this company until your confident you know all aspects of the business. they will pay for your mistakes in learning the trade. If you leave now, you will pay for your own mistakes. The costs can very. Talk to your employer and see if he is interested in a partnership down the road. because if you leave, chances are you'll need help and you'll train that person until he leaves you to start his own business. A vicious circle.
handy.. that's my point also... but god knows what lugal thinksMike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
lugal... so .. now that i'm reassured you're still alive and well.. whadda ya think ?
why do you want to leave your present company ? what's it like ?
does the owner have any kids ?.. could you own the present company in a couple years? what's the circumstances ?Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I want to leave because although my boss is a good carpenter, he has doesn't handle the buisness end very well and it is taking its toll on me. When he bids and gets a job he complains that he isn't making any money because his bid was to low or he gets a by the hour job and complains that he still isn't making any money. Every week he reminds me how expensive the taxes and insurance are on my wages and that he just can't get ahead because of how expensive I am. The result is I that my pay has not changed in the three years that I have worked for him (13/hr). Meanwhile he just bought a brand new $35,000 truck, is sending his son to an expensive college out of state, taking over seas vacations and his wife doesn't have to work anymore. The money is just part of it. I recognize that he has worked hard to get where he is and I am happy for him but don't blame your empty savings account on the cost of having an employee when its your lifestyle that is doing you in. There is more to it than that which I will discuss later.
damn , lugal.. c'mon and work for me... you'll own the company in 10 years....
the man don't deserve you ...or any employees, for that matter, if he's what u describe...
hah, hah, hah.. tell us more... now you're getting down to the real meat & potatoes...Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 4/3/2002 11:23:46 PM ET by Mike Smith
What kind of work do you do? I live in Rhode Island so we might be on to something.
go to the photo gallery and look at the threads:
"new***O.J.T.*****" and
"***new_3-in-1_****...
they are both samples of what we do....Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
LUGAL,
The advice given in this thread is invaluable no doubt but in my opinion I think you CAN start your own biz NOW. Just keep in mind all of the responses.
As I did and do...read everything you can get your hands on. Frequent boards like this. Be observant. Like Jim said...being a contractor is a total different ballgame then a contractor/builder as I am. If all you do is contract the work with no hands on then you better get to school. If what you want is to actually do the work...have employees...estimate jobs....figure out all the time and material then start small as you have been in your side gigs. If your heart and soul is into your work then you WILL succeed!!! If its the work you love and you feel you can handle the responsibility and the time it all takes then rock on my brother(sheetrock..ugh) and welcome to the world of splinters, sweat, blisters and filthy jeans. My hands are so dried out as I type, Just finished grouting a bathroom I did.....jeans are covered in grout, caulk, thinset and glue and god knows what else...lol. I make no appologies for my appearance. My eyes are clear, heart is warm and I absolutly love what I do. Woundt trade my work for anything!
Be well,
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM