Replies

1. 
   calvin_ | Jan 11, 2002 03:11pm | #1

   *
   30, all but 6 self employed.

1. 
   Jason | Jan 11, 2002 03:48pm | #2

   *12; all self-employed. And what a long, strange trip it's been.

1. 
   Boss_Hog | Jan 11, 2002 03:54pm | #3

   *17 looooooooonnnnnnng years almost exclusively in the truss business. Started in the plant and worked my way up.

1. 
   Peter_Koski | Jan 11, 2002 04:10pm | #4

   *21 years in the trades 15 years working for self

1. 
   Thomas_Cummings | Jan 11, 2002 05:19pm | #5

   *Well now let's see 2002 minus 1977.......something like 25 years. Still remember the first day. Showed up to the jobsite with brand new shiny dime store tools. Was told by the foreman to put down the tools and go around back. When I get back there I find a pile of plywood (remember plywood?) 3 ft tall. I jumped higher than that pile when I heard the foreman scream, "Plywood! Dammit!". I had a real hard time breaking the bands and the foreman and other carpenters on the roof laughed uncontrollably. When I awkwardly passed up the first sheet they yelled, "One? Just One? We pass two around here!". By the time I made it back to the eaves with two more sheets the previous sheets were nailed down, cigarettes had been lit and yelling continued. After a week, during which other young men made it one day, I made the mistake of telling the foreman that I had taken a homebuilding course in high school and should be allowed to swing a hammer. He asked to see my hammer, a shiny True Temper 12 oz. curved claw rubber grip. I passed it to him as the others stopped to watch. He promptly threw it into the woods and told me that I would never swing a hammer on his job until I showed up with a real hammer! Back to hauling materials. Whenever I could sneak a break to catch my breath I would look at the tools they carried and wondered where they got them from.The foreman was Irish, 5 foot 4 inches tall, 145# and in complete command of the entire crew. He had a nickname for everyone that hadn't yet been "accepted". Mine was "College Boy". Everyone started when he said start and everyone stopped when he said, "Let's come up for air". He cursed anyone who dared speak during Paul Harvey's newscast. During one lunch break I dared to interject a comment and was told that I was, "too young to have anything relevant to say, so shut up!". He was ultra conservative politically and kept reminding me that I thought the world owed me a living. I not only wondered what he meant by that but also how he could have known my thoughts. I suppose, now, that the side effects from the socialism injections I was receiving at college were obvious to him. On a day that we started the framing of the walls for a large meeting hall built on a slab, I showed up with one of the long wooden handled, checker faced hammers. I had bought a separate hammer loop so that I could carry it behind me, just like the others. This caused much laughter and grinning among the crew. I was allowed to nail treated plates down to the concrete with square, case hardened nails that broke of and shot at crew members who promptly complained to the foreman. The foreman must have shown me how to hold and swing that hammer a dozen times before he just started yelling hammering instructions without even looking.I had just gotten to the point where the majority of my nails were going in instead of breaking off when I over shot a starting swing and hit the middle finger of my left hand. Between the concrete and that checkered face I was afraid to even look at that finger. I didn't matter any way, all I could see was stars. I was surprised to receive sympathy and even attention from almost every crew member. To this day that finger looks like Gummby's head.I can remember thinking how glad I was for being on my way to being an engineer and not having to be a part of this gang forever.Well, things happen and I kept swinging a hammer, although now it's computers, software and cell phones. I've met and worked along side many wonderful people. I'd gladly form up a crew with the people that I've "met" posting here. Just remember, if we do, to be silent during Paul Harvey's newscast and "The Rest of the Story" and we'll get along fine! Thomas

2. 
   Mike_Smith | Jan 11, 2002 08:52pm | #6

   *thomas.. great story... but someday .... soon ...paul harvey will find the rest of his story....man... he was old when i started in '73...heavy , highway & marine from '69.. army from '65 trades & school from '60....lots of great people along the road..... and lots more out there and ... here

3. 
   Thomas_Cummings | Jan 11, 2002 11:30pm | #7

   *Roll On Mike! See you in heaven!Thomas

4. 
   S._Lykos | Jan 12, 2002 03:46am | #8

   *Started out as a full time "handyman" in 1971. Changed the name to Lykos Home Improvement in 1973 - so it's a total of 30 years.

5. 
   calvin_ | Jan 12, 2002 06:07am | #9

   *Er, ah, Sonny, do we get a pin or something?

6. 
   S._Lykos | Jan 12, 2002 07:33am | #10

   *Calvin, I finally made it to where I now get a pin - "up" of my choice.Gotta run out and get the current issue of Playboy and make my decision.Back me up on this, guys. We gotta get Barb to believe, I really don't want to do it, but since it's a contractor "thing" I have to!

7. 
   calvin_ | Jan 12, 2002 02:23pm | #11

   *You rascal you.

8. 
   Tim_Thompson | Jan 12, 2002 03:36pm | #12

   *Been in and out of the trades for 19 years. In this great business for my self now for 11 of them. Sonny I will back you up on the Playboy. It is the only magazine I can count on the DW keeping my subscription current on.

9. 
   Stephen_Hazlett | Jan 12, 2002 03:48pm | #13

   *I have .........serious doubts about............ anyone.......... that....... can listen to an entire................ Paul Harvey ........broadcast.there should be an OSHA fine for anyone that would inflict that crap on their crew.

10. 
    GACC_DAllas | Jan 12, 2002 06:08pm | #14

    *27 years.12 years of it in business for myself.Ed.

11. 
    Terry_Smiley | Jan 12, 2002 06:20pm | #15

    *Morning Ed!ThomasGreat story! You can work for me, I like your training!As for my story:I grew up in a masonary family. My dad, grandfather, uncles and great uncles. From my earliest memories all I ever wanted to do was build things and be one of the MEN. My dad wanted me to be an architect or pilot. He had been forced into the trade at 16. Luckily for me, my grandfather felt that if I wanted to know how to build, starting early was best. So at the ripe age of 8 he put me on the wall with a trowel. This was on the weekend when my dad was on another job and my grandmother was supposed to be babysitting me, but I talked pap into taking me to his side job. Well my dad found out and from all of the screaming between him and my grandfather you would have thought my grandfather had taken me to a gay bar. Well these weekend excursions continued for 5 more years until my dad decided to finally break me of any desire I had to work construction. He did it by giving me a summer job on a commercial masonary job for one of his brick foremen. He told all of the men to pour it on me because he didn't want any son of his to be a bricklayer, having said this he left. Well I was in deep trouble. I was the big boss's son, I was a scab, it was a union job, and they didn't know whether to curse me or bury me in the wall. I survived, and it made me a little like your boss, Thomas. I'm 45, I've never done anything but construction. I've worked as a mason, a carpenter and since 80 as a self employed slate roofer. I'm still hoping one day to be one of the MEN. I still work with a few, and I'm damn proud to be here.Terry

12. 
    Mike_Maines_ | Jan 12, 2002 06:36pm | #16

    *Terry and Ed, you guys make me proud to be in the trade. I've been doing this since all the way back in '96, fresh out of college with an engineering degree and absolutely no desire to sit behind a desk. Since I was 14 I had worked every school break in carpentry, for some pretty good builders. I also read and talked to old-timers and learned all I could. I've mostly worked for myself, learning the hard way (also the quick way!), and have found this forum to be absolutely invaluable for all the experienced advice offered here. I've learned more about running a business in the last year (since I've visited Breaktime) than I had in all the previous years combined.All I ever wanted to be was a carpenter, and I'm living my dream!

13. 
    Dan-O | Jan 12, 2002 11:00pm | #17

    *In and out for 27 years. In more than out.You get beat up early. That's life. Then smarten up.Now its better. Working independently.Be well, and do good work...hey,Just like PBS!

14. 
    Mark_McDonnell | Jan 13, 2002 03:05am | #18

    *......24 years....Geez......somehow after doing the math...geez......Geat story, Thomas and Terry.Stephen, Agreed. Keep it P. Harvey free......

15. 
    Mr.T | Jan 13, 2002 03:58am | #19

    *18 years started straightout of coll-itch.Wood Products Engineering degreenow I engineer wood products all dayMr.T

16. 
    Marshall_Winn | Jan 13, 2002 04:19am | #20

    *After almost starving to death doing what I was trained for in college, newspaper photography and journalism, I fell back on my construction background. It was to be a temporary deal, just until I got back on my feet. That was in 1975. I became a licensed framing contractor in 1981. Here it is 2002 and I am still beating nails into lumber until it "looks like the picture." What a long strange trip it has been, but overall I have no regrets. There has got to be a book in there somewhere.

17. 
    mike_westerfield | Jan 13, 2002 04:58am | #21

    *I am new to the boards, but I'll throw mine in......Carpenters helper through high school, laborer from graduation ('89) until I decided to serve in the Marine Corps from '91 till '95, got out and started a small remodeling company (very small) did anything I could to make a buck. I had a family by now. Slowly moved into the new construction end, started framing in '97 and just this last summer we built our first spec for ourselves. We will continue to frame for others, but there is a real sense of satisfaction seeing your name on the sign in the yard. I have been learning alot from reading your messages, keep them coming! Mike

18. 
    Schelling_McKinley | Jan 13, 2002 05:52am | #22

    *If this thread doesn't make you feel old, you're not. Twenty-five years pounding nails, twenty-two as a boss. After twenty four years I got my first tangible benefit from attending college. I built a house for an old college roommate.

19. 
    Bucksnort_Billy | Jan 13, 2002 08:56am | #23

    *Started with Amish masons in '63. Try gettin' by with "call that good" after sozething like dat...Cursed and happy about it, bb

20. 
    Orlo | Jan 14, 2002 03:28am | #24

    *Mike, Started out working as carpenters helper in 1966 for a custom home builder,have done several different thing over the years in carpentry and building.Two of the last 14 years I worked as a salesmen and rep for a stair company .The other 12 years I was self employed, speacialized in handrail insulation. I'm now contracted by five different stair company and several trim carpenter contractor to install handrail. Larry

21. 
    bill_dalton | Jan 14, 2002 07:06am | #25

    *Mike & all It all started with my dad's hardware store when I was about 10 (1962) Learning what nails are what ,galv ,cut, finish,etc. Also window glazing (sp?) coming from a 5 gal bucket that you had to mix before selling ( the oil would rise to the top ).And watching him build houses and small boats .And then going to work for my uncle as a helper. And being yelled at a lot until I finally got to put on a tool belt (It was too big & VERY worn out).Scince then I've gotten a lot better and love my work; and the education of those younger and willing to learn. I also now teach old style woodworking to others. And I am still learning from the "old guys" And the wheel of life goes on. Next project is the renovation of a 1742 manor house that will be about 1 1/2 years work.Ya gotta love it!!Bill D. Quality Wood Chips

22. 
    bill_dalton | Jan 14, 2002 07:16am | #26

    *Mike & all... I don't know if it's proper to post one after another ....my oldest son stopped by this weekend from New York City( Yea the big apple) Said he built a beautiful 3 level deck (some curved) with a hot tub.It's GOOD to know the wheel goes on.......still banging after all these years, Bill D. QWC.

23. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Jan 15, 2002 04:22pm | #27

    *26 years. 23 of them running a rough frame crew. 19 self employed. I had 2 year stint as a working commercial carpenter superintendant (tenant renovations). I just wish I had had this forum back in the early eighties....blue

24. 
    alan_r. | Jan 16, 2002 08:56am | #28

    *4 years part time - sportfishing guide in the summer, the rest of the year doing carpentry - I've been full time for a year - and I really, really appreciate this forum... and I really, really like my job.

25. 
    Rick_Barta | Jan 17, 2002 07:05am | #29

    *25 years on my own.Too independant for my own good to start with. Learned mostly through the school of hard knocks but now I 've never forgotten it. I love the creative side of the job but hate the paperwork and my silent partner uncle Sam.May the force be with you.Rick

26. 
    RonTeti | Jan 17, 2002 07:53am | #30

    *Ive always had a love for working with my hands. I was a wheel vehicle mechanic in the army. When through a 4 year apprenticeship as a marine machinery mechanic. I did play a little with wood then but It wasnt until after I bought my 1st home about 8 years ago then I starting taking construction classes and becoming a tool buying fool. I have a couple of contractors for friends and you guys who give me advice when I need it. I sure do feel proud when I see the project completed. I also do some small side jobs PT. So ive been working with my hands for about 26-28 years. I really understand how you guys feel when a project is done and you get a chance to step back and look at it. Great feeling huh?

27. 
    ken_hill | Jan 17, 2002 08:37am | #31

    *Started out in '73 doing art glass design/fabrication/installation. Did residential and commercial, as well as public art projects. Range to over $100K. Was in business w/partner for 25 years. I've worked the last 4 yrs. in remodel carpentry. Going on 30 yrs. and I'm also still working with my hands- can't help it, just love to build stuff!

28. 
    Heck_ | Jan 18, 2002 01:34am | #32

    *Started in '74 as a summer job, working steady by '77.Was lead framer at the age of 19,got my license in '81 at the age of 23, been on my own ever since. Long time..still love using my hands to make things.jw

29. 
    Keith_C | Jan 18, 2002 03:28am | #33

    *I was working since 5, enslaved at 8 with responsibilty, and finally getting paid at 13. So I guess 55 years total. All in the same business, in the same town, with the same name. I did finally fire my old man though. And the powers in charge willing, I too will be fired one day by my kids. I've been goofing off since Christmas to stay inside. Once again this year I have detailed and waxed the Bobcat, all the trucks, all the tools and every living creature I could get my hands on. I did also build the most kick-ass shower in the shop, with enough power AND volume to strip layers of skin away. I'm sure they won't miss the powerwasher until at least May.

30. 
    Thomas_Cummings | Jan 18, 2002 04:37am | #34

    *I remember asking my Irish Grandfather why he wasn't working any more. He was in his late fifies and I was nine at the time. He asked me if I had ever heard of "30 and out". I said, "yes, isn't that what they give the men at Ford?" (Dearborn) He said, "Well at 52 when I retired I already had 42 years in full time!". He had started at age ten in the coal mines of PA. They lived in a company owned house that sat where Three Rivers Stadium is now. Sometimes when I'm choosing to have a "bitchy" day I remember his 42 and out at 52 story.Thomas

31. 
    Michael_Rimoldi | Jan 18, 2002 07:55am | #35

    *Thomas, Are you still in the Pa. area? I ask because I have a brother-in-law who is a contractor in the Oil City and surrounding area. Also, both my grandfathers were miners in the Johnstown, Pa. area. One Czech and the other Italian. Some really good stories I can tell!Mike

32. 
    Thomas_Cummings | Jan 18, 2002 04:15pm | #36

    *Michael,No, we're in Michigan. My Grandfather's Dad and 5 Brothers walked away from the coal mine, company house and tab at the company store after the second cave in. Digging his sons out by hand the second time broke Great Grandpa.I too, have many stories although due to their having come from Irish and passed along by Irish (me), there is some doubt to the actual facts. My favorite one is where my Grandfather, his Brothers and an Uncle are in a rowboat, heading for the mine, in the fog at Three Rivers and an argument ensued as to which way to go. A wooden rowboat is no place for group of Irish to argue, naturally it went over and they had to swim for it. All in different directions of course.The town I live in now, Traverse City, has a "gourmet pastie" shop. Now don't get me wrong, they really are delicious and the shop is quaint but what I wouldn't give to be able to take Grandpa there and pay $6.00 for "leftovers in pie crust". He did live long enough for me to be able to show him "designer jeans" that I paid $18.00 for (1977). He had quit school at ten and gone to the mine because the school children taunted him about only having denim to wear and now his grandson was wearing it on purpose and paying extra to boot!Thomas

33. 
    Peter_Koski | Jan 18, 2002 06:14pm | #37

    *Leftovers in a pie crust!?! My mother would swat you with a broom! When you were raised on those things you miss em something terrible. BTW there is no prettier spot on the planet then Traverse City...none.

34. 
    Thomas_Cummings | Jan 18, 2002 09:32pm | #38

    *Peter,I hear you. I can probably afford to eat just about anywhere. But......what I really want is to go back in time and walk into my mother's kitchen after a hard day of sledding and see the pan of macaroni and cheese bubbling in the oven. Must have been two sticks of butter in every pan. I worked for a man from Germany who said that during the war his family of five sometimes only had a potato or two for dinner. He came to America, became a millionaire ......and what did he order at the fanciest restaurants in the area? Extra potatoes!Yes,I agree, Traverse City is beautiful. Not to many other places where a carpenter and a nurse can own a home overlooking a bay of Lake Michigan. Since my wife is a southern belle, Traverse City represents our comprimise........it's as far North as she can live and is as far South as I can breathe.As to the most beautiful spot on the planet may I humbly suggest the porch of the Grand Hotel on Mackinaw Island in July, ice tea in hand,blue water, scudding puffy clouds, a freighter passing between the island and Round Island Light?Thomas

35. 
    Peter_Koski | Jan 19, 2002 08:20am | #39

    *Thomas is that before or after you devoured a pound of Mackinaw Fudge? This all prompted a new thread.

36. 
    Don_Lockman | Jan 19, 2002 11:16am | #40

    *Hey Mike, Don here, from Denver, Co.My family owned a concrete company when I was a kid. I started working summers at age nine and full time when I quit school at 15.(stupid move) At 18 I decided to become a carpenter. So I have now been building custom homes for, going on 15 years. I have owned my own company for 8. Doing well, but since 9-11 alot of our customers have gotten nervous and put jobs on hold. How are things in your part of the country?

37. 
    Thomas_Cummings | Jan 19, 2002 01:29pm | #41

    *Peter,I don't just walk the streets of Mackinaw Island eating fudge................I eat the ice cream with the fudge in it!Thomas

38. 
    Michael_Rimoldi | Jan 20, 2002 04:41am | #42

    *Hi Don, Personally, my business has been slow but the rest of the area is doing about normal. New homes going up left and right. I think 9-11 scared folks at first but after interest rates start dropping, a lot of people took advantage of it and start building. New WalMart Supercenter going up right down the road as well. Three WalMarts in about 10 sq. miles. Boy are we lucky!Mike

39. 
    piffin_ | Jan 22, 2002 03:47am | #43

    *I always liked doing something with my hands that you could see and touch. I took over the family garden by the time I was twelve and Dad was always showing me how to do whatever he was doing around the house. Paid me to scrape and paint, etc and I loved it.In High School I worked after school and weekends on a dairy farm where he the old boy let me re-roof and fix the doors and gates. I loved it! Feed the cows and it just turns to shit but hang a door and it's still swinging every day to make you proud. Shovel out the gutters and they fill up again the next day but roof a house and it's still keeping you dry next year. I thought, Why did I ever sign up to go to college? This is what I want. Dad talked me into going for that engineering degree so I could make lots of mulla to make him proud but a year later I was back to driving nails and loving it. I gradgitated HS in '70 and have been self employed all but about five or six years since.

40. 
    Don_Lockman | Jan 26, 2002 01:56am | #44

    *Hey Mike, Right now I seem to be on hold everything is falling out at the last moment. We have a large custom home starting March. But sweating right now. First down time in 8 years. Any suggestions?

41. 
    Terry_Smiley | Jan 27, 2002 05:59am | #45

    *DonWe've all been there. It's really tough. Can you do something about it. Find work to tide you over, if not then, I know it's hard, but try to enjoy your time. Beleive me some day you'll wish you had more free time. If you do good work people will punish you by giving you to much. Finding a balance is the trick, and enjoying what ya got.I hope you get busy soon, I could sure use some part time help. Get a ticket to DenverGood luckTerry

42. 
    Don_Lockman | Jan 27, 2002 07:41am | #46

    *Hey Terry,It just so happens that I live in Denver, Thornton technically. I build in Boulder. Are you related to Joel Smiley? If so, I know him. Nice guy. I have been in business 8 yrs and 100% of my work has been referrals, and recalls to do additional work. I have experience in all phases of residential work and quite abit in commercial. I have done stress skin panels for AFP and Premier Building Systems. I am a certified builder for Jim Barna Log Homes. I am a distributor for Reddi Form Foundation Systems. These are insulated concrete forms for walls and foundations, if you were unfamiliar with the brand. My family used to own Concrete Works of Colorado. So I have done structural concrete among other things. I also have experience on most dirt work equipment, and forklifts. I have references, if you are interested in trying me out on a temporary basis. I have a large home beginning in March. Email me if interested in talking in person. Thanks, Don G. Lockman

43. 
    ANDY_C._CLIFFORD | Jan 27, 2002 11:03pm | #47

    *27 years! Started out doing "ALUMINUM SIDING"..yeh luminum...lol...Started out working for a real shotty contractor who had three different business cards. One for the Latinos one for the Jews and one for anything he could link it to. I was his gopher. Ran around to supply houses all over NY, Philly and then some. Ran to his subs to drop off materials. Spent a whole lotta time filling in days for the Greek siders on Long Island whos truck signs all said something to the effect of AMERICAN SIDING. They called doing some cut rate techniques as the GREEK WAY. I didn't make that up ...my Greek employers of the day made it up.....such as.....if you drop both of your pencils while three stories up use a Greek pencil ( your fingernail).Oh, and three stories up on the houses in Queens NY (like those at the beginning of the show "All In The Family")..well ya might have to go up another few feet to put in the gable vent.....Fine...pull up the picnic table and lift your pump jack up on that.....geezzzz.......and I'm still alive...LOL? Those techniques were decent ones but the rest I won't even talk about..oiy.. I learned so much of what NOT TO DO, yet a real of what to do in retrospect! Then spent a couple of years working with a real old man that I met through my shotty contractor boss. He was about 78 and all he wanted to do was work as a builder which he was his whole life. A Jewish man that always quoted Zen phrases. I think he attached himself to me cause I too was brought up as a Jew and lined my life to Buddhist traditions and morals. He taught me soooo much. Anyway Eli died a few years after I went into business for myself. Always stayed in touch with him and his loving wife. Suppose if I hadn't gone to work for that shiester contractor...Jack Goldfeder/ Anthony/ Lopez I might not have learned what I did. A sows ear to a silk purse. Then the years reading books by the likes of Ram Dass and Krishna Murti....well it took my craft to a place I love so much to this day with all the trials and tribulations. There aren't too many other businesses on this planet that can offer so much.Namste' Andy http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

44. 
    David_H._Polston | Jan 29, 2002 06:53am | #48

    *I worked in the painting business for 4 or 5 years off and on until 1993. I started painting for my father for a couple of years all the while building our handyman - home maintenance service (which is a big long term for carpenter, fix it guy). I was in business with my father and brother for 4 years (3 too many!) which was quite the experience! I have been on my own since (here's the "tag line") Founding, Sawdust Inc. in 1999.I might get tired of the physical and paperwork some days, but all in all, I love my job!Me.