I know this is one of those questions that the answer is:
“It depends…”
But I need to ask it anyway…I’m looking at building a few spec homes in the 2500 sq ft range. Nothing too fancy, perhaps some brick on the exterior, but mostly lap siding. The interior trim will be fairly basic, with a few rooms that will have some extra trimwork, but nothing too outlandish. The homes will all be crawlspace foundations on nearly level lots, so excavation and the foundation should be straightforward. I plan on using decent subs for everything (framing, mechanicals, trim, etc). Only the family room will be vaulted, so the house is not very complicated framing and drywall-wise.
So my question is this: On average, how long should it take to complete a house like that?
Here are my assumptions:
Sitework/Excavation/Foundation: 2 wks
Framing/Roofing: 4 wks
Mechanicals/insulation: 4 wks
Drywall: 3 wks
Int Trim: 3 wks
Painting: 2 wks
Flooring (hdwood/tile/carpet): 1 wks
Finish Electrical/Plumbing: 1 wks
Punchlist items: 1 wks
That comes out to about 21wks to complete. Most people (outside of homebuilders) in the area that I live in, don’t believe that anyone can build homes like that, in anything less than 9 months (35 wks). What is your experience in the area you live/work in?
Thanks,
PeteCz
Replies
It depends.
I've seen a Co. do them in 90 days, REALLY, on contract , and finished it 3 days early!!! they have built at least 100 of these and they build 25 to 30 at a time so the subs can come in and they know the layouts, they can go to one of the other houses if this one aint ready!
You missed so much in your estimate , finish siding,ext. doors,windows, ext. paint,.... etc... I'd have to figure you've got no subs that know you OR your houses, you're probably better off to figure 9 mos. and if you finish faster, GREAT, if not , no big deal
Geoff
Edited 3/27/2002 12:45:30 AM ET by Geoff
Geoff,
I tried to leave off a few things that weren't on the critical path, that could be done while other things were going on (windows/doors/roofing going on at the same time), exterior painting while we're installing flooring, etc.
In our neck of the woods, 90 days will be impossible, but its good to know...
Thanks for the info
huury up and gt at it, home sales, building is booming now, bound to take a breather. I bet the peak is this spring, then nothing.
Organize
Organize
Organize
13 weeks
Edited 3/27/2002 1:14:54 AM ET by nigel
Pete,
First, I'd like to ask you a question or two.Are you a professional in the building trades,carpenter,plumber,electrician?
If you are it sounds like this is your first house.You know your trade,call upon your friends in other trades to help get you through,allow a lot of extra time for unforeseen problems.
If you're not a building pro what is the reason for doing this? Are you going to be able to answer all the questions everyone will have during this project?Will you know what goes where and when?
Building spec houses is a large investment,that doesn't always return right away.Can you afford to wait? Can you afford the cost over runs that will come as a result of your inexperience?
Answer these questions to yourself and then decide what you want to do.
Vince Carbone
Vince,
I'm a "new" professional to spec homebuilding. My brother is a professional builder in NY and he and I have worked together on a few projects, including our home. I had been working in a contracting type business before, but have always had sawdust in my veins and always enjoyed building homes. In February the company I worked for was downsizing and I took a nice check to quit, so I figured, if I was ever going to try to build homes, now would be the time. I've been working toward getting my license, which I should have by the and of April.
I decided to go the spec home route, because I've heard so many horror stories about contract homes and quite frankly, just starting out I won't have enough of a reputation and don't want to be the low cost provider. Also, when my Brother and I were building our house, about 10 different people stopped by asking to buy our house. (It drove my wife nuts) Most of the folks I talked to, who stopped in, were not interested in dealing with the building process, they just wanted a new house.
Most of the spec homes in our area are crap. They are built as cheaply as possible, and still manage to sell. I want to build higher quality homes for about the same price. I know its going to be an uphill battle, but I'm going to give it my best shot.
A couple of folks hit the nail on the head about subs. I plan to sub out a lot of the work, if not most of it. My biggest problem will be their availability, reliability and workmanship. I plan to provide constant communication and really reward those subs that work on-time and with quality (bonuses, etc). Hopefully that will help me get the better subs wanting to work for me...
Idealistic? Inexperienced? Probably, but I'm gonna give it my best shot.
BTW the last house we built was 3800 sq ft and took just shy of 27 weeks. We had to replace all of the HVAC work of one sub, call in a second plumbing sub to finish the first's work, deal with the breakup of our electricians partnership. The house sat far too idle at times and the weather was not alway cooperative. At the same time other homes in the s/d were taking up to a year to complete...I was never sure why, they seemed to sit empty for weeks on end...plan, plan, plan...
Sorry for the long post, thanks again for your advice...
PeteCz
You should have no problems from what I see and from my own experience. The only variable is the weather and the time of year, winter building takes longer. I've done similiar in 4 months, as long as a year.....depends on motivation.
My first thought is - Why does it matter how fast you can get the thing up? Faster isn't necessarilly better.
Second thought is - Sure, you can do your drywall in 3 weeks. IF the drywall sub shows up on time. (Or shows up at all, around here) And the framing can be done in 4 weeks - IF the weather cooperates, and the sub shows up when you want him there. (They might be finishing up another job, for instance) My point here is that there are bound to be delays from a variety of things. Delays are a normal part of construction.
Boss,
Absolutely dead-on, faster ain't better! But the quicker they are completed, the quicker they can be sold and the faster I can get the bank off my back!
I agree on the issue of delays. We had to deal with some of them on the last house we built, but I just don't understand what the heck takes most of the builders in our area so long to finish a house. There is one down the road from us, that was framed, roofed and drywalled in 4 weeks. They started bricking up the exterior, got about half way and stopped. It's now sat there for three months, without another brick put in place. The house is an eyesore and there's a For Sale sign in the yard. I know he probably wants to sell the house before he puts anything else into it, but how does he figure he's going to sell the house to someone driving by. The mortar joints will never look the same once (if ever) he decides to finish up. If he didn't have all the funds up-front he probably shouldn't have started...
I guess it's called "biting off more than you can chew".
Short answer:
first one = nine or ten months
fourth one = four and a half months with luck
I can remember one we built just about like that in six months with a two man crew and subs for concrete, mechanicals, drywall, trim, paint and carpet.
Don't forget to allow time for permits!
First you are way off on your times posted. Second the best man I ever saw at doing it was loyal to noone. If you said you would start his job on Tues., dont bother trying to show up Wed. Normally there would be someone there by then , not you. He simply says our deal was for you starting on Tuesday, you didnt , so its off.
Im helping a friend out now that is pretty good at it. He fired his dry wall finisher and had another one working 2 hours after the firing. " I said wow!!!!" Im not near that bad , but I will use all the subs , not just one in each field. If they have time to do my job when I have it ready is the sub I use. I wont wait on a brick layer and they only lie to me one time. Im also a landlord so some of it come naturally by now. THere will be others on here that will tell you that they use the same subs all the time , but the sub has earned that respect. Even then major contractord get bit by the snake every yeat letting subs put them on the back burner. One of the many things to remember is that subs run the job most of the time. Example is to that ; When a drywall finsher drives up , its his job normally. At least the inside of the job. Painter spraying laquer. Concrete guy keeping deliveries from happening, etc.
So I will say your to handle people will partly determine your goals
Let's see, I'm in the trim stage of my house and I started...uhm...about...200 weeks ago. You should at least get done before me.
What area are you from? I just finished a 2350 sq. ft. home. Dont forget rough plumbing and electrical, unless I missed it on your list. I had my drywall, "start to ready for paint" in 5 days and that includes the basement which was not included in the sq. footage.
I live in the Chicagoland area myself.
I would expect a decent drywall crew to do the job in 1 - 1 1/2 weeks.
The estimates I used included some wiggle room (weather, materials, scheduling, etc). I wish our subs were as professional as they are up north, or at least from the bigger cities, but out here in the country.....
Subs are definitely the key, good and bad. Do any/all of you use any form of written subcontractor agreements to outline what is expected of the subs (in terms of start date, length of job, etc.) as well as you the builder (draw schedules, material availability, specs, etc). I have talked to a few folks around here who flat out think its insulting and don't want to do it. Is it asking too much? I don't want them to sign a formal contract, I just want something that outlines who's doing what, when and when they can expect to get their money...In my previous profession we always did it. It just seems to be good business practice for the Builder and the Sub.
Thanks for everyone's input. This is a big career change for me and I want to make sure I do things the right way, as much as possible...
Dealing with subs is a local problem. I would highly advise that you follow the local customs. You can get people to agree to anything you want but they may not be the ones who you want to do the work. If you are well organized and flexible (How often do these two traits go together?), you will get the best results. Do your research well and be prepared to pay for dependability.