I’m supposed to deck over a small back yard (20′ X 18′). ‘Cause of privacy issues they want to stay low, I’m concerned about ice build up, (montreal, canada). The yard is presently all brick, I’m planning to sink posts but staying low gets hard with 6″x structure with 1″ decking on top. The back of the house slidding door exits 6″ above grade. Anyway I’m concerned that a structure this close to the ground will get warped by the ice ( if I stay as low as I can the bottom of the joists won’t be more than 1″ or so off the ground). I’m framing with pressure treated lumber, and decking in cedar.
Any thoughts?
What’s the minimum distance I should have between the ground and the structure?
Part of me is also considering floating the whole thing (the bricks are level and solid). During the winter it would rise up a bit and come spring settle back. Is that crazy?
Thanks to any and all for their input.
Edited 4/21/2002 1:04:53 PM ET by PATRICKOFM
Edited 4/21/2002 3:39:45 PM ET by PATRICKOFM
Replies
What's the minimum distance I should have between the ground and the structure?
3-4" or it will be heaved up by frost in winter or could even collect a glacial ice flow with snow melting enough to drip through and refreezing in the shade under the deck, even if you've got drainage. Looks to me like you need to take the bricks out to do this.
Why???????? If it is to overcomne the uneven brick thing then the problem will get worse unless you do it right. Might be more practical to remove the bricks and tamp in crushed stone or sand base, then relay the bricks.
We try to keep a deck finished surface at least four inches below the threshold.
The bricks are good, I was just thinking that floating the whole deck(16'X18') might be a solution. I've never done this, are you saying if the soil has drainage it would work? The reason I'm considering this is a low profile deck would take alot of post holes (=$$), since I can't lose height to a crossbeam.
Oh yeah, I have already resigned myself to a small landing with a step up to deck level.
Edited 4/21/2002 3:49:41 PM ET by PATRICKOFM
One potential problem with floating on the brick is that it's virtually impossible to get even contact when you build let alone have it remain that way; there are going to be spots where you walk that will feel a little unsteady and make a noise (deck going down to hit brick) when you walk on it. On the other hand, there are lots of decks/walk-ways that are floated on pea-gravel very successfully.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I think maybe I used the term "floating" a little loosely. What I was thinking of was to build a 2x6 or 2x4 structure and just let it rest on the ground (either the orig. brick or gravel) and then attach decking to it. As always I'm most concerned about ice distorting the structure, I know this would work if there was never a winter as i would just make the structure stiff enough to prevent flexing and the ground at the sight is stable. Thanks for you input so far.
OK, I'm thoroughly confused now. Your door threshold is about six inches up from the brick and you want to frame with 2x6 lumber and add a step UP to the door after hearing that you should finish oput 4" below the door?
A six insh deck plus a six inch step, plus a four inch lift is sixteen inches of construction going into a six inch space.
What am I missing?
Or you've got a future as a magician or a politician.
Excellence is its own reward!
the step up would be to the deck not the threshold. ie. you step out of the house onto a landing (below threshold height)as wide as the sliding doors and then step up to deck height It would be cool if this site had some kind of drafting part to it, I think we're getting close to a thousand words here.
Gotcha.
Think outside the box often?
This recessd step will need to be big enough to allow for cleaning snow out. I foresee getting it packed in tight and turning to ice and not being able to open the door.
They won't even allowus decent space for pictures so I doubt they'll be including a free CAD application soon.
Excellence is its own reward!
maybe now...Excellence is its own reward!
he said sliding doors, no?J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
All the more reason to not want a pond right outside the doorExcellence is its own reward!
Patrick,
I don`t live in Montreal, Canada but if ice and snow are the concern you mentioned in your original post surrounding the doorway with a step up, doesn`t sound very wise. But maybe I`m not understanding you properly.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
If the brick is good, why are you decking over it? If it is tired looking, maybe new pavers are the answer. Solves the height issue, and would probably cost less, too.Bear
I vote for keeping the brick!
Excellence is its own reward!
Puffin may be right that the bricks have to go. Can you excavate the area by say 18". This will give you 24" to the top of the threshold of the sliding door. Then dig and pour your post footings, the tops about 10 " above grade, lay a bed of compacked crushed stone 2-3" thick then go from there. This will give you about 7" from the crushed stone to the bottom of your 2x8" joists. That leaves you with 6" from the top of your joists to the threshold of the door. After decking you should be about five inches below your door.
And that's exactly what I had in mind. If that sits on a hard surface (concrete, pavers, even a stone patio), then there's a very high probability that some part of the structure will not be in contact and become unstable and make annoying noises. A gravel base is much easier to level up and distribute contact. Ice is a minor problem in the bigger equation. .
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Pat- Is the small yard surrounded by a low fence and is that the reason for the privacy issue?
What about digging out a 'pit" to put the deck in. That would keep it lower and keep the deck a higher distance above the ground.
Guess that would make drainage an issue, though.
RedneckExtraordinaire
Great schech now I understand! If your customer must have a wood deck then escavate the entire deck area the amount of depth needed to keep your deck below the threshold of the door by 4" (6" is ideal) This will leave your deck about 2" above grade, maybe more depending on the slope of the yard. You will have to go down about 18" to give enough clearance for your under structure.
Now if that is not feasable then just escavate the area around the door openning to provide a large plateform area to enable easy snow removal as mentioned above and to ease any people traffic going in and out. build your deck as high as needed and for privacy build a decrative lattice screen around the entire deck or the areas that need privacy screening.
Thank you to everyone for your input, I'll sleep on it and come up with a solution that takes all this into account. These forums are great for brainstorming, thanks again, Patrick of Montreal.