Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 06, 1999 01:32pm | #1

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   On the jobs I have seen the studs aren't fully attached with four screws as the sheetrock will hold it all together. And yes they do get out of wack when the electricians/ plumbers and such come in afterwards. You need to try and hold the stud against movement and maybe use a higher rpm drill that will just pop the screw in.

2. 
   DEman | Dec 07, 1999 02:44am | #2

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   They actually attached the studs??!?! hehe. . .Seriously, I worked for a metal stud/firewall installer. Only the bottom of each stud was installed in the track. Of course, these had inch thick drywall "core board" in the middle; the thought was that the weight of the board above it (in the middle stories) held it down, and the drywall going over the joint and screwed down both above and below the joint held it together. The very top was occasionally screwed, but usually when we put the outer 1/2 icnh drywall on we would catch the stud and the track with the screw, eliminating the need to attach the track beforehand.
   It does not surprise me. . .

1. 
   Thomas_Cummings | Dec 07, 1999 03:29am | #3

   *Does one's nationality necessarily determine one's level of craftsmanship? I think not! We are all equals in that we are all God's imperfect children. Where's the moderator? Are racist comments allowed here?

3. 
   Guest_ | Dec 07, 1999 05:41am | #4

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   I am not a racist but I install interior trim in south florida and I have noticed a different level of craftmenship between the houses I trim framed by "mexicans" and the houses framed by "americans" the work is like night and day. the american work ethic is about pride and quality which is hard to find with people that are here for 6 months out of the year to make a quick buck and go home

4. 
   PeterM. | Dec 09, 1999 06:29am | #5

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   I was not trying to be "racist" or anything. I was just trying to distinguish one contractor (who used 3 screws) as American and the other (who used two screws) as Mexican, which - as far as I could tell - they were. Why the "Anerican" contractor installed walls 1, 2 and 4 and the "Mexican" install walls 3 and 5 is beyond me. But it's a Marine Corps base.
   My point or question is: when you use wood studs, you use two nails at the top and two nails at the bottom. Right? You don't rely on the sheetrock to hold the wallsm i.e. studs together, do you?

1. 
   DEman | Dec 09, 1999 07:16am | #6

   *Of course, with wooden studs, the drywall would not hold the studs together. But with steel (screw) studs, the top track overlaps the stud. So when you screw at the top, on a stud, you screw through both the track and the stud, thereby holding the two together. With wooden studs, the top plate and stud do not overlap; you screw through one or the other, but would have to screw on a 45 degree angle to got through both. Yes, two screw should be used, but in the end, it doesn't matter all that much. . .

5. 
   Guest_ | Dec 09, 1999 07:42am | #7

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   Hello Peter,

   I started out in the trades as a metal stud framer but
   gradually slipped over to the wood side of framing
   building houses. I prefer to use 4 screws, 2at the top and 2
   at the bottom. Knowing what plumbers and electricians
   can do to them, those studs need a fighting chance.
   It also lessens the twist when the drywall is hung.

   I've worked for metal contractors who only wanted
   one at the top and one at the bottom and even worked
   for one that just wanted the bottom screwed. Those
   techniques are used to save time on the framing end
   and how the drywall gets hung is the rockers problem.

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 09, 1999 08:19am | #8

   *So far no one has mentioned the "four" letter word CODE. Is there such an animal for steel frame? We can't cover anything up without first having a framing inspection and an electrical and/or a plumbing inspection. I would think relying on the accuracy of the rocker to hit the junction of the stud and the top plate consistently while moving at breakneck production speed would be asking a lot.Ralph

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 09, 1999 01:44pm | #9

   *Unless you live in one of the border states, you really don't know much about the Mexican workers. Outside of these regions, what you mainly see are the "roamers" or migrants. They keep moving to avoid the INS.I call them Mexican, because they are. I have more respect for their work ethics, as a whole, than I do for most American workers. They are hard working, dedicated, loyal, conscientious, polite, and thankful for the chance to work and earn a living. Good contractors pay them well for their services, and they respect the contractors for it. I am not refering to illegal immigrants, whether they be Mexican, Canadian, British, Australian, Spanish, etc... Iam talking about the legal immigrants, with visas and green cards. The ones I have had the honor of working with have impressed me greatly (and I have worked around and with a LOT of them). They will dig a ditch, haul heavy loads up ladders, or cut trim, all with the same pride and enthusiasm. They are thankful for the chance to work, and they work much, much harder than the average American worker. Most take a great deal of pride in their work, and it shows. I watched a tile setter rip up an entire floor because it didn't look right to him. He did it on his time (he clocked out) and for free. He reset the tiles, and the job was beautiful. His American helper was the one who screwed up the job, but instead of throwing a fit at the guy, he just redid the job himself. He knew that the quality of the job would reflect on him. This impressed the heck out of me. I would hire a LEGAL Mexican worker before I would hire a young American worker. I know this sounds nuts, but the young American worker, as a whole, has no work ethics, no morales, and couldn't care less about quality. They only care about the paycheck. Some young workers are hard working, and do care, but they are rare.In Houston, Texas there are a couple of street corners where Mexican workers go every morning. The local contractors come by in droves looking for workers. They come to these corners because they have used a lot of these workers before, and were greatly impressed by the work and the skill that these fellas offered. Recently, the workers have gotten organized a little better, and the contractors are paying them more per hour to work. INS kinda turns their back on the illegals in the groups, but it is because there is a shortage of qualified workers to do the jobs there. Before we start bashing other cultures or nationalities, we need to learn a little more about them than we think we know.Just a thought...James DuHamel

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 10, 1999 04:26am | #10

   *I have a legal Mexican employee who has worked for me for 5 yrs. now; also a Mexican sub-contractor who has been doing work for me for 9yrs. My impression of the quality of work ethic and concern for quality that Mexicans have, in general, is the same as James. There are exceptions, but it goes to show that no group or nationality can be stereotyped. We have a lot of Amish crews in this part of the country(NE Ohio) and you can't assume that they are all "old world" craftsmen. There are good crews and not so good crews. I think the quality of work on a job is more telling of the general contractor's work ethic and concern than the nationality of his crews. He can either accept or reject what his subs produce.I guess I always cringe when I hear someone say"I'm not racist, but...." It's a phrase I try not to use. John

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 10, 1999 07:06am | #11

   *James, why do your messages seem to always start with "if you are not a teacher....... live in a border state, (fill in the blank),..... you just wouldn't understand." Sounds like my wife, you're not a woman, so you wouldn't understand Maybe we shouldn't attribute any particular traits to anyone, but judge everyone on their own merits.As one of the "interior" states we're no New York ( I love their diversity), but hey we try.

2. 
   Guest_ | Dec 10, 1999 08:40am | #12

   *Actually, it's a polite way of saying that people don't know what the hell they are talking about. It never ceases to amaze me how people who are not teachers, married to teachers, or even know any teachers seem to be an "expert" on teachers and all that teachers do, think, feel, and want.Same thing goes for some of the so called "Texas" experts. They don't know a thing about us, our culture, our way of life, but yet they always comment on how "stupid" we are. I personally judge people by certain criteria. Skin color, nationality, geograhical location, and socioeconomic background have absolutely NOTHING to do with it. I judge people by what's in their heart, not by skin color. Like the song says "If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin, then mister you're a better man than I"A good person is a good person no matter where he came from, what color skin, what nationality, or what religion. By the same token, a jerk is still a jerk.Just a thought...James DuHamel

3. 
   Guest_ | Dec 10, 1999 03:44pm | #13

   *Here's another opinion on fastening. Stud crimper. Punches the stud to track. Merely suggests they stay where you want 'em when the other trades get there. Used a crimper in the early 80's. Haven't seen them lately. Sure was quick. if we were concerned that anyone might move studs around, we would screw a horizontal stud to layout about 6 ft up on em and remove after the first row of board.

6. 
   Christopher_F._DeBlois_PE | Jan 10, 2000 02:52am | #14

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   None of the earlier messages indicate where the framing is taking place (except for the Camp Pendleton reference). In areas where high winds or significant earthquake hazards exist, use 2 screws from track to stud at the top and bottom of each stud. This minimizes eccentricity when uplift or shear forces are applied by wind or quake. As a structural engineer, I can't recommend relying on the drywall crew (or the framer installing the sheathing) to properly install the 3rd or 4th screw.

7. 
   PeterMichael | Jan 10, 2000 02:52am | #15

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   I was working as an electrician at a remodeling project at Camp Pendleton which involved steel studs. For some reason there where two different contractors installing the steel walls. One used just three screws - two to attach the bottom channel to the sud and just one to attach the stud to the top channel. The other contractor (Mexican) used just two screws, one at the top and one at the bottom.
   '> 'I asked the first contractractor why and he said that was all that was necessary.
   > To my mind, it would seem logical to install 4 screws. In my situation, I would sometimes have to attach conduit (EMT) to the stud with self-drilling sheet metal screws and under the pressure from my Makita the stud would shift out of position because it wasn't fastened firmly with a forth screw.
   So my question: were these contracters right?