Hi there. I was wondering what different peoples income are. I like my job but sometimes wonder if I should have been in a different job to make better money. I work long hours and work hard and smart for my employer. I am thinking of going out on my own or possibly switching carears. Please state the facts as I have in the following:
- sex – male
- age – 31
- occupation – journman carpenter / foreman / estimator
- sector – interior retail renovations and all construction
- education – 2 years college / 4 year carpenter apprentiship / autocad
- location – B.C. Canada
- sallary – $55,000 can. / yr , $23.76 can. / hr.
- extra money from cash jobs per year – $1500 can.
- paid holiday weeks – 0
- overtime pay – only on union jobs
- average hours per week – 50
- average weeks per year – 48
- work vechical supplied by company – yes
- cell phone supplied by company – yes
- union – yes
- percentage of union work – 10%
I think that’s about it. If everyone fills out this survay it would be interesting and usefull to all. Change or add fields if you want. Accurate information about income is all that is required. It doesn’t matter if you push a broom and make $ 5 / hr. or are a constuction company owner and make $150,000 / yr. Please take a second to reply.
Thank you , Ace
Replies
Ace,
Here is my reply in a nutshell.
33 years old
4 yr degree plus grad school
15 yrs. experience, 9 on my own
just hung it up as I couldn't make near enough money to justify staying in business
Mike
http://labour-travail.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/psait_spila/lmnec_eslc/eslc/stand9-e1.html
Something's wrong if you get "0" paid weeks of vacation as a salaried or hourly-paid employee. At the very minimum you must receive a 4% vacation payment in lieu of paid time-off
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
hey I'll take a shot at this,
1. male
2. age - 26
3. occupation - carpenter apprentice
4. residential and light commercial remodeling
5. education: 1 yr vocational, 2 yr OTJ
6. Seattle, WA
7. rate: 14/hr
8. xtra cash jobs: 0
9. paid holiday: 80 hours
10. average hours/week: 36
11. average weeks/year: 48
12. work vehicle, cell phone, uniform supplied? no.
13. union? no.
14. medical, tool allowance, profit sharing? no.
best, GO
Acecan,
I won't get too specific about mine but when you figure that the company is giving you stuff that I provide for me as a self employed doing about the same stuff, you and I are at similar income levels. I have over thirty years doing this but no college - self taught on the CAD.
I've got lead men making 24 - 26 bucks/hr
This is in Miane - US dollars
Phil,
He asked for solid info, not nit-picking criticism. You got anything positive to add here?
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 4/3/2002 6:57:32 AM ET by piffin
Hi there ACECAN:
I am retired(57) but my wife(46) still works and I am going to provide you with something totally different from your occupation so you can see how the range of occupations and $ out there today.
1. sex-female
2. age 46
3. occupation-business consultant in hi-tech
4. sector-banking
5. education-grade 12 plus many many night school courses
6. location -Ontario Canada
7. billing through our private corp-125.00 /hr
8. paid holidays - none
9. overtime pay - max work 8 hr/day stipulated so we have time to ourselves
10. average hrs /wk - 40
11. average wks /yr - 48
12. billings into private corp and corp pays vehicle mileage, go train expenses, cell phone, meal allowance, all misc expenses etc.
13. we split income for CPP and tax purposes and as I do books yet, we pay both of us from private corp approx. 90,000. each.
The point here I think is that there are many occupations that pay more, many that pay less. My wife loves her job and really looks forward to going to work each day. It sounds like you are in the same position. There is more to life than just money and you must enjoy what you do....to many people hang there heads each day and just dread getting up and going to work. We know a great many people who make as much as my wife but they work 70 hrs per week, have no time with their spouse and children, hate their job, and generally live a miserable life....some wish they lived in a small town and worked at the local hardware store or were a framer or such.
If you go out on your own, there are many tax advantages(good) as well as many risks(bad?). Check it out carefully and if you do it, don't look back.
Just another opinion.
DIY
I think I love your wife :)
Please post a pic of her (W2) ;]
T
Layers
Onions
Have
Layers,
Carpenters
Have
Layers
Thanks for all your posts. However some people did not answer the question, "How much money do you make?" I know it is a personal question, however it is interesting. Also, I do get 4% holiday pay, which I included in my hourly rate, so I am not being ripped off. I guess that works out to 2 weeks paid holidays per year. However I have been with the company for about 16 years so it would be nice if it was 6% or 3 weeks paid holidays. By law I don't think they have to pay me over 4%. I used to get 12% total:
4% vacation
4% holiday
4% tool pay
They took the 4% tool pay away about 5 years ago saying it was hard to make profit and that it should only get paid on union jobs. I went along with it because I think I get paid above average for the carpenters around here. Most would be happy if they made $20 / hour and I make more than that.
Please keep posting. I would like to know how much everyone makes.
And, I do know that money isn't everything, and I live modestly, but I am thinking of having some kids and I enjoy travelling and it all costs money.
Thanks. Ace
Ace,
"And, I do know that money isn't everything, and I live modestly, but I am thinking of having some kids and I enjoy travelling and it all costs money."
Lots and lots of money. Travel?
Lots!
Lots!!!
Try tripling that $20 per hour.
Unless you wish to confine your travels with the kiddies to the cross town YMCA.
Children + the ability and desire to travel = money is everything!
I'll second that, Mark. Probably my shortest post, eh?
19211.4 in reply to 19211.1
What the heck, never usually get this personal, but:
This is possibly another perspective -- I percieve others on this board in similar situations.
A: professional life: When I turned 55, I immediately started working at 1/2 pay (retirement pay >1/2 full time work); still easy life for a junkhound cheapo who still loves to eat roadkill (Gabe's first comment to me when I first visited this board) and most of work is defense related which is a calling in itself.
B. Professional life aside, long term financial effects (no mortgage, etc) of building own house at young age and doing volunteer ever since equal about 20% of prof pay, etc. , thus, per this thread:
1. male, with loving wife who I married 'cause she was the first girl I'd met who was willing to WORK! 2. age - too old to work over 18 hrs per day anymore 3. occupation - eng, and DIY everything else except medical and dental
4. everything
5. education: BSEE
6. Renton, WA 7. rate: too much compared to honest folks
8. xtra cash jobs: none
9. paid holiday: approx. 360 hrs
10. average hours/week: 40 paid, >60 DIY/volunteer
11. average weeks/year: 52.2 12. work vehicle, cell phone, uniform supplied? no. - low overhead , '67 Datsun, '63 GMC (Blodgett liked it anyway!)
13. union? no; not only no , religious objector - unions once had a place, now only promulgators of mediocrity - hey, let's start another flame fight!!!!Ain't I an opionated XXX? 14. medical, tool allowance, profit sharing? big time corporate
Wife went with me most everywhere prior to last Nov. on business trips. She got frisked so bad on Haloween at both ORD and SEA she figured why put up with this, so travel is no longer any expense.
What I make is none of your business..........
I charge $40. per hour
my square foot prices are based on material & labor plus 50%
I just got a big raise- My Truck is now paid for.
I work about 6 hours on the job and 4 hours in the office
evenings and weekends are for working on deck designs , going out on bids and delivering proposals.
I like my job
I take an unpaid vacation anytime I want
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
1. Male
2. 40
3. Builder/remodeler
4. private/independant
5. College grad Bach degree, Carded Instructor journeyman carprntry,Art school candidate for drawing Sparky off the matchbook (historical reference for most)
6. Indiana
7. billing through me. ( I can be very persuasive! )
8. Paid Holidays Every holiday that I work I get paid.
9. Overtime is something I try to avoid, usually unsuccessfully.
10. Work about 50 hrs /week
11.50 weeks year
12. n/a
13. annual income about $ 68,000.00 give or take, this year.
Now the disclaimer: This is an odd year. I'm building my own home as well as several others, this muddies the waters a little. Most years I have made less...much less. People will gladly pay you as little as you ask. Used to think that any fool could build, problem was undervaluing my work. Weve all been there I hope.(maybe It's just me...IS IT?) Now I use the Means guide which I initally thought was unbelievably high at first. Eventually the "low bid " seekers stopped calling and the Quality oriented folks started. I've mostly done Quality work (Though not at first) just never got paid for it. Lately my income has gone up and up annually. We still squeeze the pennies. I guess what I'm trying to say is it seems like I can breath again. It's a good feeling. Most builders will lie and say they are fine financially even when they have no idea where tomorrows check will come from. We are a group of hopeless optomists, who love our work ( again: usually ) and take pride in bettering our selves and our trade daily. Sure we've got more scars and bad backs and carpel tunnel and never have the ability to keep a "good pair" of jeans in good condition. We as a group know the cost ( If you don't, you will!) But it's what we do! It's what we are! I absolutely love my work! ( USUALLY) My prior customers are my current friends! I wouldn't have it any other way. Only thing i wish is that I could spell/type better. Hope this is readable. Hope this helps.
Miami
I've been debating whether or not to enter this thread, but what the heck! ;-)
1. Female2. 433. General Contractor - retired4. Did muni and commercial work5. College Grad - Chem E with Civil Minor6. Over all the US, last 13 years in Massachusetts7. I did the billing, always hoping to be paid within 120 days8. Took Holidays when I wanted, before I started my own company, received 5 weeks per year, plus certain days the feds take off - government contracts are weird!9. Overtime - lots of it - usually worked 70 hours per week, a tad more if you include driving time. Have not been "paid" for overtime since my early 20's.10. see 911. 52 weeks per year12.Annual income after taxes and such - around 96K. The last 4 years I just did consulting work - took less pay, around 75K., but all beni's paid by the company I consulted for. So - that was pretty good! :-)
Now - going to use up all my savings starting a new venture into greenhouse/bakery/bookstore thingy - can always fall back on Construction!Woe to the cook whose sauce has no sting- Chaucer
Ace, I agree with the statement "Money is't everything". I used to live in Detroit and work exclusely in Grosse Pointe, one of the wealthist places in the country. At the time I was in my 20's and made very good money. The big city lifestyle didn't suit me so I packed it up and moved to the sticks in Michigans Upper Peninsulsa, took a 50% cut in pay and resigned myself to roofing, shed and shack remodel. It's now 25 years later and the big money clients found the place and I have a custom stair and millwork shop. I don't even come close to makeing the money had I stayed in Detroit. Such is the trade off, and I'm happy with my choice.
I noticed you listed 2 years collage, FORGET IT, in the trades that's as good as a minus. I get this all the time, guy comes to my shop looking for work, thinks he is intitled to more money since he was paper trained.
In the end it's all what you want to do, most people feel they are underpaid, when in reality most people are overpaid for what they do. Bottom line, make your choice and enjoy life.
age 28
self-employed contractor
hourly rate $30 Canadian
employee rates journeyman carpenter--billed $28 paid--$18to20
apprenticeship wage is less two dollars each year down from journeyman ticket eg first year is $10 unless they have experiance and are good workers not fresh out of high school kids.
I also have my Criminology Diploma which I account as nothing when it comes to earning potential. I agree that many people think they are entitled to more money and quicker advancement because of a little bit of paper. The universities promote this way of thinking because it increases their enrollment. The truth of the matter is as an employer I grade my salaries based on love of the work, lifestyle of employee, and eagerness to further enhance one's abilities in the trade. I find the lifestyle of employee is a great indicator of how far one will make it in this trade. If the person I am looking at hiring owes their soul to the bank and is always trying to keep up with the Jones I have no use for them. I share my profits with the employees and keep them up to date on the companies financial picture. You choose this trade for love of the work and lifestyle, if your looking at it from any other picture go elsewhere.
Age 59, semi-retired , deliver magazines in self maintained $2500 truck and make $25 - 50 (Can) per hour, choose to work 2-3 days a week. Life is good.
"There is more to life than just money"
"Money isn't everything"
Both easily said, when you are sitting on the black side of debt. When you are so low that even the red side of debt looks like an oasis with gold-paved streets, hearing these sorts of statements can sometimes be irritating to say the least.
It may not be everything, but it is at least something. When you don't have money, it does indeed, seem to be everything.
I do not by any means object to anyone getting paid just as much as they possibly can. I am not complaining in any way. Seriously. I simply want to let the other side of the 'income' issue show. So far, I have survived hell and high water even on what little I have. I suppose that in some way, I will continue to survive. Whether it be in the way I wish, or on the street, sleeping under a bridge somewhere.
It does get a bit irritating though, to know that today I am agonizing over whether to pay every cent I have on the bills, or to antagonize a utility company and save a bit of the bill money aside, and buy some PVC pipe/fittings/glue which I need, to put in a water supply tank. Or Whether I should buy enough dog and cat food that I don't have to have Rufus and the girls on barely subsistance rations for this next month. And then I read about trips, holidays, huge amounts of money spent on recreation alone, and the same people making those posts complaining in other places about not having enough money. Or having to dip into a savings account probably larger than my entire lifetime earnings, to be able to pay for the three new cars and two new trucks and huge house, etc... because business was a little slow this month.
There IS a lot more to life than just money. I learn that every day. But life would be much easier to live if there simply were at least 'enough' money. I worry about money every day, but at the same time, I enjoy something every day that doesn't cost me a cent. I sometimes feel like it is just no use to go on, but every day I am glad to wake up and see another day. I struggle and so far have survived, on less than a lot of you pay for coffee and donuts every month. You'll please forgive me if I get a bit irritated when I hear a complaint about money from someone who has bragged about recreational use of more money than I get to see in a years' time. Or if I chafe a bit when people say something like "Money isn't everything".
Just so I have given the answer asked for, and haven't just fogged the discussion.... I make 1.78 an hour.
Luka, At a $1.78/hr. I would consider you in the underpaid category.
The "Money isn't everything" statement, like everything else has it's limits. The statement in a general sense, refers to choices, assuming you have choices to begin with. My dad didn't have a choice, he took what ever job was available and did what was necessary to feed the family. I had a choice, live in Detroit, make lots of money and be unhappy in my surroundings. Or bail out, take a cut in pay and live the life of my choosing.
My gripe is with the whiners who say "We both have to work just to make ends meet." when in reality the garage is so full of toys both cars are parked on the street.
Luka,
Don't apologize for what you said. I agree wholeheartedly.
I wish folks would use a phrase like "I like what I'm doing no matter the pay" or "I enjoy my profession regardless of what others make".
I despise the "Money isn't everything phrase" as the only folks who ever seem to use it are the ones making money or who already made money and then gave up their profession for a more relaxed way of life. If folks are in a position to do that, great for them. Just don't tell me I don't need to attain the same goals and then feel like I too am not happy even though I may be making six figures.
For me, money does seem to be everything as I can't pay my bills with my stunning good looks. Sure, they reduce the rate a little and when I give my best smile I get a 10% discount but the fact of the matter is many things in a capitalist economy are based on what folks will pay (homes, cars, etc) so if you're hanging out at the bottom of the income food chain, your selection for dinner is not as great as the higher feeders.
Hope I don't tick off any of you who are making good money as thats not my intention. I'm never jealous or envious of folks as I have my fair share of opportunties and "toys". I just want a comfortable life and not having to worry about where the next paycheck is coming from or things like that.
Mike
Luka,
I was at times (long periods of time) in my life stone broke......and at other times carried a very heavy money belt........different experiences.........both very interesting experiences.
As I look back, (I'm fairly comfortable now) I can say I enjoyed the poor times more. Maybe cause I love living life on the edge.......or I'm a masochist, experience is what I've sought in this life....when it's over (life) that and what you've given away is all you can take with you anyway. Naked in, naked out.....thems the rules.
Advice: feed Rufus and the girls first........after the kids, it's your turn to eat.There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
Great philosphy!!!!! I totally agree.
Dana
Other than a few changes in the text, Stan wins for most useful response....one I feel comfortable copying and using............good work Stan!
I wont give any numbers... but I will say that I am living very comfortably building.....(fill in the blank) ....................My shop supplies 100% of our family income,,,and my wife helps me NOT!
the corporation i work for has carpenters, part -time bookeeper.. and me..
the carps are 45-47 .....58
all male
all employees, no independent contractors..
no paid holidays except Christmas..
no vacation pay..
no retirement plan...
no health plan..
lots of tools and equipment,
we rent an office and two car garage..no shop.. our job site is the shop
the rate is $12 - $18 , most are at $17 - $18.. all are real employees , not independent contractors.. we have GL & WC insurance
partial uniforms, seminars, and minor benies
we work 52 weeks a year, anyone wants a vacation can take what they want, our backlog is to around September right now..
the company has two vehicles, and a 7x14 cargo trailer..
We own the corporation... sometimes we make a profit.... have learned a lot in the last 27 years.. will learn more tomorrow
Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My apologies for mucking up a perfectly good thread.
Laminator,
Grew up a Yooper, born and raised. Now a Cheesehead, but only 7 miles from the U.P. You made an excellent choice!! Are'nt all those wealthy folks from the L.P. ,and The Windy City buying up the U.P. Built some dandy homes for a few.
See Ya, (Yooperism)
Brudoggie
I tried to harvest some similar information when i showed up here a few years back. Very little wage information was posted on the thread. One special frequent poster here e-mailed privately which helped alot. Any way..
Male
42
VP small commercial GC firm (self employed)
Hands on work in many trades as well as small time general contracting.
3.95 years sounds about right
Cascade foothills of OR
e-mail answer to ACECAN
No tax cheating
No paid holidays but company usually makes a little money while I'm on vacation.
Overtime DNA
Must be over 50 hours per week. I like my lifestyle.
No more than 46 weeks worked in a good year.
Drive full sized American truck set up for work.
Have cell and pager.
Never worked a union day in my life yet.
About half of my subs are union.
joe d
This post is not going where I expected. If someone wants to start a new post titled, " Is money everything", go ahead. I just wanted to find out what people's incomes are. If you don't want to answer, then don't answer. Thank-you to those people who have been kind enough to tell us all how much they make.
Thanks, Ace
I actually thought the thread was grwoing quite nicely. Got some good input from alot of folks outside of the full-time construction realm. I mean any of us could have just posted "I make $60k" and it would have been boring. And most folks would have probably exaggerated their figures too. I mean, who doesn't stretch their income truth just a little? Kind of like fishing. The only time you downplay what you make is when dealing with the IRS.
Mike
Mike, I love your spelling of growing. It's the way youse guys talk down there, right? LOL
But you've got to know that it's not just for the irs that contractors need to talk ther income down. You've never heard a southerner talk "poor boy", have you? It is expected that qwhen negotiating with a sub or supplier, that you mention that you are having trouble putting food on the table this week or that you were thinking about trading the big Dodge for a little ole' S-15 because the price of gas is just killing you, not to mention that the insurance bill you got after your last audit made you take out a loan at the local arm- breakers.
Boy, are we ever off subject now! ;-)
Sorry aceman
Excellence is its own reward!
1. sex - male
2. age - 44
3. occupation – Project Leader – Knowledge Management
4. sector - Government
5. education – Almost MA Economics (-1 course)
6. location - Ottawa Canada
7. salary - $66,000 can. / yr
8. extra money from rental properties per year - $4,000 can.
9. paid Leave:
a. 5 weeks holidays
b. Sick leave (don’t know how much I get, accumulates over the
years – I have tons right now)
c. 5 days family related (sick kids etc)
10. overtime pay – Yes, but never use it.
11. average hours per week – 37.5
12. average weeks per year – 47
13. work vehicle supplied by company - No
14. cell phone supplied by company - no
15. union – yes (closed shop – but I don’t like it)
16. percentage of union work - 100%
It is hard to compare US and Canadian Salaries. Look at the exchange rate. At the present exchange rate, about 1.59, a $55,000 CAD salary is equivilant to $34,590 US. But that does not properly represent our purchasing power. Very crudely, estimates vary but an equivalent basket of goods purchased in the US and Canada works out to an exchange rate of about 1.2. This is known as the purchasing power parity (PPP). In other words, a Canadian who never goes down south with a salary of $55,000 will be able to buy the equivalent amount of goods and services as an American whose salary is $45,800 US.
Now let's get to taxes. Canadians get a double hit that the media never talks about. If we start with a base line of parity between the two currencies, Canadian tax rates are higher at each income level than their American counterparts. So a Canadian making $45,800 pays more than an American would at the same salary. But for the Canadian to enjoy the same purchasing power he has to make $55,000.
But at $55,000 he is at a higher tax bracket and therefore pays even more in taxes which reduces his purchasing power below his American equivalent.
How about healthcare - sure it's paid by our taxes - unlike the US. It costs us less, but we also get less service. Are we really getting good deal?
Finally, lets not forget the Canada is getting a free ride in Defense spending. As long as America has a strong military, we get to save a bundle on defense - it's sort of having a big brother keeping the bullies at bay.
This is off topic but important when doing cross boarder comparisons.
Paul
Thanks Paul, That was really interesting comparing Canadians and Americans incomes.
Ace
Hey guys, like Danny Devito said,"It's money. That's why they call it money".
I feel that I should clear up a misunderstanding of the words I used "money isn't everything". These words were not meant as perhaps they sounded.....to tell you the truth, I'm not sure of the words that should have been used.
What I meant was that a person should not just go after the money in life. Sure we have a nice house, two new vehicles. We also have not taken a vacation in over 10 years as some client always has some self-created emergency. We also used to work evenings and week-ends as a client would say something like "we would like that for Monday...why not work Sat and Sun so we can have that when we get to work on Monday". We eventually stopped the nights and week-ends but have yet to get away on a vacation other than a long week-end.
We have also done most of the work on our own house (40's that we totally gutted and renovated). When we have had to get tradesmen, we always paid them well and those that did very good work and were easy to work with always got a good bonus when the job was done.
We also award an annual scholarship for those young folk who wish to further their education.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we know we were blessed by being at the right place at the right time more than just once and have made out ok financially.....we do our very best to spread it around.
When I think back on all the stress, political bull, etc that we went through during our careers, I still wish that we had stayed in that small town and enjoyed the week-end fishing, camping, local baseball, local hockey, local curling, getting to know more about your neighbours other than that some "people" live next door.
Oh well, life always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Please do not take offense with any of my comments....none is meant....just using words that hit the keyboard.
I don't charge an hourly rate. I charge by the job. Sometimes I make $25.00 and hour and sometimes I make about $12.00 an hour. Depends if I screw something up by leaving something out.
I do this as a part time business because if I did it full time I would starve to death.
I hold a full time position with a company owned by Black & Decker and have medical,dental,401k,uniforms,paid holiday & vacation, personal days, paid retirement and my schooling would be paid for if I wanted to go. Oh yea, when the economy is good I work overtime and I make a pretty good hourly rate.
The only reason I do the home improvement business on the side is because I actually like doing it. I was trained earlier in my life to be a carpenter, but because I was getting jacked around by contractors not wanting to pay me and having to drive all over hells half acre to do a job I opted to go in a diffrent direction.
After about 12 years of doing what I do (wire EDM programmer) I wasn't getting any satisfaction from my job and looked for something that was fullfilling. That's when I went back to my first love....carpentry.
The problem is, I'm not going to give up on the benifits I get from my full time job to do this fulltime, unless things go very well where I can afford my own insurance and other stuff.
I also wanted to coment on the "money is not everything"
I wished I had a lot of money so that I can actually say that and mean it.
I like the saying: "Money isn't everything - But it makes misery a lot more enjoyable"
I don't feel like I really want to tell the whole world how much I make. There isn't really much point in it anyway, as the cost of living varies so much from region to region.
People who don't have much seem fond of saying that "money can't buy happiness"; well, maybe not, but it sure can rent a lot of it..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Male, 40 years old, 14 years experience, Senior Engineer (environmental), 5-years of Chemical Engineering at UC Berkeley.
Currently working through 3 different consulting firms, billing out at $60 to $120/hour, depending on what I do (tech stuff is cheaper than design work). I get 50-65% of my billing rate, do no paperwork, get no bennies or tax benifits as an on-call part-time employee. Which is fine with me since I do a lot of the childcare and we travel a lot. So if I worked 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, I'd take home about $95,000. That would be "underpaid" in California, but my peers there are "underpaid" in terms of scenery, lifestyle, and recreational opportunities. I don't work 2000 hours/year (although I sometimes miss it) because it makes no financial sense at my low pay rate. Because:
Wife: MD, internal medicine, in private practice with 4 partners. 4 years pre-med at Yale, 5 years medical school, 3 years residency. Pay works out to about $200/hour. Medical insurance, retirement plan, tax-benefits (deductible travel, etc.) She works 3 days a week.
I am very aware that my wages are above average for North Americans (or anywhere for that matter) and my wife's are way above average. We donate to charities, volunteer our time, save a lot, and the college fund is quite healthly. Money isn't everything, but it makes everything a lot easier. My wife didn't get a real paycheck until she was 31. That's a lot of delayed gratification compared to union wages all through one's 20's. And while on one level, it might be nice if everyone could be a doctor/lawyer/programmer if they wanted; do you really want YOUR doctor to have an IQ of 90 and poor grades in chemistry and anatomy?
I had a hard-working staff engineer working for me in WA state. He had a National Geographic photo pinned up in his cubicle. It showed a worker in an Bangledesh salt mine. The saltworker weighed about 70 pounds, looked to be 60 years old but was probably 30, probably worked 12 hours a day 7 days a week, had a dirty rag as a lion clothe and that was probably his only possesion. When my co-worker felt he was having a hard day, he would look at the picture and remember that he (the engineer) had plenty to eat, a house, a car, a wife, a kid, sat in an A/C office getting to use his brain, and could move, chance jobs, or go to school if he wanted.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I want to apologize once again for mucking up this discussion.
It was not my intention to put anyone on the defensive. It was not my intention to complain. I considered deleting my post, but that felt wrong. Like lieing, or something.
Please don't anyone feel put on the spot, or targeted, or anything. No response is necessary.
Overheard at the local HD...
"It ain't bad being poor, but it sure is 'unconvenient'!".
--TJM
That is the truth!Tamara
51 years old
NY...Long Island
I make well over a hundred grand a year doing gigs for customers and my own spec houses. One at a time as I live in them. Aint so much what I earn but its about loving what I do..hence my screen name "Andybuildz". I'm sure if I was told I had three days left to live I'd come up with a three day all time lifetime project. If you love what you do add that into your salary althOugh I dont think the IRS gives a !@##@$.
ANDY
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Union carpenter in Chicago $30.22 per.Still do side work because I love my trade,and the $$$$
Male
Age 40
Industrial maintenance mechanic
Education-High school drop out( lucky to be born with grease under my finger nails ) and lots of OTJT.
With a little O.T. 45K/Year
Are those side jobs union?
Did I say side jobs? Ment helping friends.
Wow, some of you folks wages, salaries, incomes are incredible! I never knew anyone in this biz was making that much. Well, I knew guys in big companies (MI Homes, WCI, etc) were making good money but not guys out on their own. Way to go! Now I know I DEFINITELY need to look elsewhere for a career.
And you guys working for others are doing quite well too. Those hourly figures aren't too shaby. I've never seen those amounts here in Florida although we are notoriously low in the pay rates for pretty much any occupation.
And one of the few female posters in doing exceptionally well. Very nice. Guess there is no glass ceiling in the contracting biz huh? Am I going to get slammed for that comment? ;)
Mike
Mike:
I wont give any numbers... but I will say that I am living very comfortably building curved stairways.....My shop supplies 100% of our family income,,,and my wife helps me part-time.
Stan,
Yeah, I know you are. You and I had talked about this a while back. I've gotten so enamoured with what you do and your success, I've started to tell people when they ask what I want to do now that my business has closed, "I want to be like Stan Foster". They look at me with a quizical expression and then I have to tell them all about you. ;)
Mike
Hey...you have that phrase wrong....Its "Like Mike...I want to be like Mike."
Anyway, thanks....I do not feel fortunate because of the money,, but because I really like my work.
Hey Mike, better than you know - I didn't mention what ALL of the "expenses" were! ;-)
Woe to the cook whose sauce has no sting- Chaucer
Okay, here goes.
Sex- Male
Age- 42
Occupation-Purch. Agent, structural steel fabricator. Self employed
Carpenter/Maintenance/Handyman. Over 20 years experience.
Education- High School, with 2 years technical school, Arch. and Mech drafting.
Location- Southern Maine.
Salary- $20.00/hr.
Extra from cash jobs- Approx. $1500.00/yr.
Vacation- 4 Weeks/yr.
Overtime- 15-20 hrs per week.
Hours per week- Approx. 60.
Weeks per year- 52
Vehicle- No
Cell phone- No
Union- No
I am looking to go into Carpentry/remodeling full time. The steel business is getting slow. Hope this helps.
Dana
"The steel business is getting slow. "
At sixty hours a week now what would fast be?
Excellence is its own reward!
I'm 40. Been working on my own for 17 years, feels like a hundred. I do it for the freedom--and because I never had a boss who made me feel appreciative of the work I did to help him along. That's why I make a special point of praising employees when they do something good. I try to do work that I like, and gives me satisfaction; that way I don't need to dwell on the money issue, as long as the bills get paid. If I get into work I don't like to do, I charge a lot more in general.
I have a college degree in journalism. I've never had a day of paid vacation. I don't get paid if I'm not working though it sounds like a pretty nice concept. I've never been in a union.
Last year I built a T&M house, billing my labor and office time at $35/hr. I had a lot of weeks working from 60-90 hours. I also remodeled a basement on a bid, probably came in at about the same rate hourly. I did a roof, roughly the same rate. Converted an attic for friends at a rate of $22/hr.
I do subcontracting for other builders if I'm in a slack period with nothing going on (pretty rare) and bill them $25/hour but more if I'm using my tools.
I'm building a house this year, bid in the $270k range. I haven't got a clue where this will put me hourly, it's tough to figure at this stage. I'm paying three people with slight carpentry experience $10/hr to help, plus workmen's comp, unemployment ins. as required by law.
There are local builders who charge as much as $54/hour. they do good work too, and are in demand. More power to them, but I don't see myself fitting into that range--it wouldn't feel right to ask that much; I might pressure myself into working too hard instead of enjoying it.
This is all pretty good money in this part of the midwest. (My wife makes about $8 per hour in a middle school.)
Mad Dog
Edited 4/5/2002 4:33:23 PM ET by Mad Dog
Edited 4/5/2002 11:06:46 PM ET by Mad Dog
60 hours a week is slow due to the fact that less of us have to do the same amount of work. In addition to purchasing, shipping/receiving, and maintenance I have been helping out as spare truck driver, estimater, welding, equipment operator, etc. This doesn't leave much time for my Carpentry/Maintenance business which seems to be picking up due to springtime here in Maine. Decisions, decisions. I am new to this forum but am enjoying it. Lots of valuable information. I have 20 years experience in the carpentry and structural steel field and will contribute to these discussions whenever I can.
Dana
Dana,
There are quite a few of us here at Breaktime from Maine. Seems like the farther up in the cold north or the farther offshore one is, the more that contact like this with other builders is needed.
Welcome aboard from out in Penobscot Bay.
Excellence is its own reward!
welcome aboard !!!!!!
Male
32 yrs old (I feel a lot younger until I type my age)
Occupation: Commercial Loan Officer at a medium-sized bank in the Midwest
Education: BS Finance, working on Masters
Salary: $50,000/yr
Bonus: Up to 10%/yr depending upon production/goals/
Vacation: 4 weeks pd
Sick: 5 days/yr
Benefits: Preferred home/car loan rates
401-K (50% match on first 4%)
Pension plan (100% employer paid)
Stock options (value/yr changes)
Hours: 50+/wk, more if I work Saturdays
No company vehicle
Company pays for cell phone, pager, and ankle monitor
Extra $ from screwing widows and farmers out of their life-long family homes: Varies
I'll try...based on last year. This year...laid off and not sure how it'll add up this year.
Last year was.
Carpenter at $15/hr. 40hr's /week.
6 paid holidays.
paid into health insurance thru cafeteria plan.
which brought hourly to $12.75.
Coverage was for me/wife/kid. paid fully for the birth.
Making more now on my own...will see how the long run pans out. Have been paying old company for insurance extension at $390/month. Will be about $550 on my own.
I'm 35...do remodeling and finsih/trim carpentry. College educated with an Associates Degree in Flight Tech and an Associates Degree in Carp/Const Tech.
Married w/1 new kid.
Had 3 days vacation owed by x-company which they screwed me out of. Now ...back to the old sales/commission days...no worky...no money!
Old compay gave t-shirts and denim shirts as uniforms...I just bought a bunch to replace.
Have a van load of tools....all my own.
cell is/was mine
Just say no to union.
things may change by next week! Jeff
* Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
Edited 4/6/2002 2:54:24 AM ET by Jeff J. Buck
Male , age 43
Journeyman Electrician, Northern Ohio region
Bachelor's Degree, Psych./Phil. double major
$27.63 cash per hour
Full health benefits,pension,annuity
No paid holidays,sick time.Employer pays one week vacation but not required to.
I started out working large industrial jobs,auto plant,steel mill,powerhouse work.As this country's industrial base has slid into the sewer,I've migrated to commercial work,a lot of hospital,school,grocery store,shopping mall stuff.When the economy's rolling I work year round,when it slows down I do my own thing.It used to be a much better gig as far as being able to travel when work got slow.My international union has flooded the market with organized members,lowering the demand for our services,a concept that escapes them.
I have a four year old son and a two year old daughter.Someday one will be an attorney and the other will be a physician.I just hope I'm around to see it.
Edited 4/7/2002 8:42:44 PM ET by IBEW Barry
100 percent of my work goes towards my rentals. I buy about 3 repos a year and redo them. I dont make any money what so ever. My wife has a really good job. I also build my rentals when I cant find them to buy cheap enough to buy. I never recieve a check. Wife gives me lunch money.
tim, you poooh bastid... yur breakin my heart...
hah,hah, hah...lunch money... you're a kept man !
my daddy always told me.. "son, ah say , ... SON !.. it's a poor woman can't support a man in the manner to which he'd like to become accustomed"..
never did figure out what he meant by that....Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Im still laffing at what you said . Actually its a joint effort at a retirement. Yes , I could take money if I wanted. But it is in the game plan not to do it. Every thing is saved for the rentals. I wasnt going to get this deep, but yes Im a kept man that has put together 10 near new rentals in 3 years. 15 year pay out plan on each. Present rent value is 5700.00 per month. Which gets raised at a current 3 percent a year. I take care of these rentals plus work on a new rental every day, gaining an average 3 per year. All of this is done on borrowed money.
She is making the living now and this will make her comfortible the way she is accustomed in the future. So maybe one day she will get to be a kept woman with an estimated 50 rentals bringing in an estimated 30,000 per month. This is also a game plan that she put together when she figgured my taxes three years ago and told me I was losing 49 percent of my income to taxes and social security, being self employed.
So my freind, when some one says on here that they are making a fabulous wage, divide that in half. I thought I was really doing well untill she told me that .
tim... thanks for sharing that with jealous old me...
here on our island the LEAST expensive house to come on the market in the last 6 months was $165K...
the same shacks i could've bought for $90K two years ago which are the same ones that sold for $50 in '93....
you snooze.. you lose...
least priced building lot is now at $100K....
but the rental market is booming.. small wonder at that , hey ?Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
and U expect me to live there! I'm gonna have to commute from Pgh!
Or move U down here.
any nice KOA's? I got a tent. Jeff * Jeff J. Buck/ Buck Construction/ Pittsburgh, PA *
2nd Generation Buck Const, 3rd generation Craftsman
you snooze.. you lose...
Boy, ain't that the truth..........remembering all the cheap farms of the seventies that are now carved into $70.000.00 1/2 acre lots. I coulda bought a couple of them farms........I coulda........I shoulda...............If only I hadda. There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
How much do you make?
Ace
JJ and Mike,
Today, your still snoozing. In twenty years, you'll be saying the same thing as you are now.
Get off your duffs and get in the game!
blue
Get off your duffs and get in the game!
Ha! The only game I'm interested in playing at my age is a good poker game (which is pretty hard to find these days) .......You're right about the snoozing part....especially when it gets warmer and I can make my way down the trail to my little gazebo in the woods by the lake. Hell, Blue, I got it made without the loot. A nice chair, a good book and lots of time to read it. (long as the old ticker holds out) The good life on the cheap.There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
Want to read a good poker story?
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1111/1807_301/68018764/print.jhtml
After, you can listen to this:
http://www.thislife.org/ra/192.ramClose enough for government work
Tim: Seems like a carpenter is like a dog musher - he needs a wife and a truck (that both work).
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
1 male
2 age 35
3 General contractor
4 remodels residential and commercial
5 many years college ba in anthropolgy, my brother has one in art
6 i'm in Berkeley CA
7 last year income 60,000
8 side jobs for neighbors 1,500
9 no over time, no paid holiday. My workers get 22. and 15. per hour with time and a half for overtime.
11 hours per week 40
12 weeks per year 46, employees typically 48
13 we finally made enough to by our trucks, came out of our salaries. workers supply their own transportation
14 we have cell phones for everyone
15 no union stuff; but they are the only reason anyone considers 40 hour work weeks, overtime, or anything else that a good worker definitely deserves.
16 We currently don't have health insurance for the employees or us but are looking into a plan to cover everyone. We do have workers comp and liability insurance
Acecan,
you do seem to be equating quality of life with dinero. I worked on a film about gypsies in college for a year. Made about 5,000 that year and worked 80 hours a week to get it done. The most fun, rewarding thing i've done, but tiring. Now I have a family and enjoy building. We are currently raising our rates to 60. per hour and trying to work less. Who knows? Maybe it'll work. The calls keep coming. The bids continue to get accepted.
14
Jim
I use to live in Berkley for a bit years back and my 27 year old daughter lives in SF so I visit often. If you have all thos people working for you and youre only making (before taxes???) 60 grand.....I suggest you move or figure something else out. I live on Long Island in NY and I'm 51...27 years in the biz and I make more then that working alone and or with one helper. Sometimes the smaller gigs yield higher yearly income.think about that. Or....maybe al your efforts will eventually lead you to a whole lot more income but that sure seems to be lite for all your efforts....wuts up with that? MAybe you should be workin further up north where the money is cause last time I was in Berkely....last year it seemed to be loaded with freaks....more then when I lived there durig the People's Park riots.
Be Well
Namaste'
Andy http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COMIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Last year I worked mainly three days a week and thoroughly enjoyed the projects that I worked on. We have two workers and my brother also works 3 days a week.
And as for freaks there are a ton! All coming from the MBA program at CAL which gets more students than ever before.
Our biz started out with working at turning over apartments for a very cheap owner. He paid us 15 an hour and got hack work, rushed, caulked, and painted.
We have been getting better jobs and clients every year. We are the biggest problem with making more.
I know that you guys and gals have put up with all my questions. You'll be happy I to know that I am going to take a Construction Business class online through our college. Yes I know that it won't teach me all I need to know, but figure it will help. Hubby has been in the business for 19 years and I have been trying for the three years we've been married to catch up. What I want to know from you guys is that one guy here says he charges $60.00 an hour now that is for his whole crew right? Don't laugh. Or is that what he is paying himself? I know that most jobs are bid jobs etc. What I am trying to figure out when it is all said and done what is a builder making himself per hour. I know it isn't that simple, but at times I think hubby is making far less than he should. Thanks for the help and I am in hopes to learn something from this online thing. By the way Sonny if you are still out there thanks for all of your help! Tamara
Roucrumom, still here - lurking, and you're welcome.
Tee hee.....sorry lol. If he aint making $60 an hour (or close) as a builder he better go to work for someone else. When an a apprentice makes over a hundred or so...well, you figure it out.
Good luck with the classes
Be well
Namaste,
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Whaya mean Andy?
Don't know of any apprentice making $100+ an hour and don't know of any builders making much more than $60. They're might be charging $60 but that doesn't mean its the take home amount...
Is this an inside joke I missed?
Mike
That is what I want to know. Andy are you telling me that builders that you know are making $60.00 take home? After they pay their crew etc. ? If so I am telling Lars we are buying your house and moving. That is if you haven't sold it yet. By the way are you still moving west? I was born in San Diego and boy do I miss the beaches!Tamara
The point is......you have to charge about $60 an hour because after all is said and done you end up with less. Also you have to realize I live on the north shore of Long Island where everything is really expensive so I can't say its the same all over the country. Although Calif is pretty expensive as well. There are also carpenters and then there are craftsman and it depends what the customer is looking for and how one sells themselves. If I get paid in cash I'll charge less.....if the job is straight ahead and simple I'll charge less. I don't charge my customers by the hour. That rate is only in MY head and not for them to know about. I use to have customers years back that were real upset that they paid X amont for a job and I got it done so fast. I'd ask if they liked the end result and they did but felt because I got it done so fast that they were over paying. I told them that if I did the same job ten years before it would have taken me twice as long and might not have come out as good to boot. One doesnt just pay for the time......but for the experiance which funnels out to Quality trust and confidence and peace of mind for the customer. Car mechanics around here make between $75-$125 and hour. Half the time I'm risking my life as well. I think I'm worth the sixty bucks.....and like I said...I may charge that but doesnt mean after all is said and done I end up with that. Another example might be a roof leak into a dining room on a two story home. I traced the leak which was no where near being above the dining room but the water traveled along a rafter and was rolling down a length of rock and down another rafter and dropping into their dining room. I sat up on the roof for about an hour with a hose and kept move it to where I thought the leak might have been coming from untill I found it. I told the people it'd be $500 to fix. They were thrilled that I found it. I tarred the area and made $500 in an hour. It was my expertise they were paying for. If I was to do an easy roof job ...doing strip shingles I couldnt ask for more then about $20 a square cause thats what roofers get all over the place around here...so I don't do roofs...Know what I mean?
And I may still be moving out west to Sebastopol Calif if nothing around here is availabel in my price range when I sell this house. The cheapest piece a junk in this hood is over $900000. Kinda seems like Sebastopol isnt much less though although it sure is pretty country side and you get more land for the money there....I'm guessing builders can make a good living in and about the areal being only an hour and half north of S.F. I wonder.
BE well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks for all the information. I understand what you are saying 100%. As you say every area is different as far as what one can charge. Here in the Western NC mountains it probably is going to be a lot less compared to Long Island. Even here it is going to depend on where you are building. We are having more and more people with second homes or retirement homes here. Making land value soar. This is making it harder for the average worker around here to get land at a decent price.
Good luck with trying to decide whether to move west or not.Tamara
Hey Tamara
Here in the VI's a typical charge for good exp. carpenters is 25- 40 hr. depending on what they are doin. I as contractor will add 20%to that for expenses and payroll taxes Ins,etc....25 % is what I'm going to soon so as to clear at least 8% or so on each worker.
Masons get 20 hr. labor 12 hr. long time labor $15 or so...Also any materials I handle or pay for gets 10 % upcharge. Things vary widely on location. Hope this helps...
Tamara,
Run the numbers...$60 an hour for 40 hours a week for 50 weeks a year. $80K a year. Now start the subtractions. In my world the $60/hr for one person would be realistic.
Painter gets $25 an hour. Plumber, $50 for the plumber, $20 for his useless gofer. Masons...I use a Father/Son team, they are $70 for the pair and worth a helluva lot more. I tip them every job, and tip them well. Most everyone else works by the square foot.
Mongo,
No disrespect intended, but I'm running your numbers as you said:
$60 per hour times 40 hours per week equals $2400 per week.
50 weeks per year times $2400 equals $120,000.
(In your post, you said it was $80,000.)
Then the subtractions start.
Maybe you got Arthur Anderson doing your books?
In Mongo's defense...eighty grand would be approx. what he gets after taxes...assuming he pays em....lol
Be Well,
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Taxes? We're supposed to pay taxes?<g>
Stonefever,
A boneheaded omission on my part.
I left out the "after taxes" bit, figuring about a 33% hit...$120K gross, $80K take home, then you pay the bills. Still, not many guys that work for me pull down 2000 hours of full pay a year.
2000 hours of work? Not enough time for play.
You bet I don't do my books. The missus is a Wharton grad and a helluva lot better to hang with than that Anderson guy.<g>
I gotta admit, ever since we gave those gals the right to vote, they've been showing us up. I'm embarrassed to admit what mine brings home compared to me.
I'm a handyman and I charge $65/hr in Chicago / North Shore. I have well over $10,000 invested in tools and dish out roughly $45,000 in taxes, insurance and other expenses, annually. I make what I do because I'm in and out quick, and I do top quality work.
I spent 20 years of training at the school of hard knocks. There are others that work cheaper - some are MUCH cheaper. I'm busy full time so my rates stand.
Raise them to $75.00.
True..What Sonny said....if your busy at $65, your too cheap.
I wish you guys would do a little studing before you spout off. How would you feel if someone raised prices on you simply because they could? How loyal would you be when things slowed down?
Pricing isn't as butt simple as you would make it. While everyone wants to make as much as possible, price gouging is frowned on and can cost dearly in the future. If the demand for your services exceed your ability, now is when you are selective about who you work for and what kind of jobs you acept. If you become known as too expensive your future income will suffer.
Now you take those jobs which offer future oppertunites. Do the gazebo for that wealthy family and when the market slows down as they all do sooner or later you'll be given serious consideration for that new addition.
Take on that challenge that when done will earn you recognition for excellance, work to maximise your reputation so you are in demand when the bottom drops out. I can give you countless examples of this but then I'm certain you are already familar with the principle.
Well, it took me a while to get MSN working. I was a hands on general that got hurt falling off a ladder. Looking at handyman stuff now. Got a guy that wants conduit run outside. Anybody know how to price this stuff? I figured it would depend on the bends (both inside corner & outside), pulling the wire and after wiring the outlet, putting in a breaker. Finally, hammerdrilling a hole about every 30" and clamping the whole thing to brick. Hometech doesn't seem to print what $ per hour they use and I can't leave them a message to ask. Handyman Connection seemed to use $50.00 a few years ago and about $60.00 now. Of course they kept half. Thanks--Thor
"hammer drilling about every 30 inches..."
What are you, nuts?
Ridgid metal conduit? Try more like every 6 to 8 ft for anchor straps.
Figure out total length of straight runs and check on cost per piece.
Figure how many bends and decide if you can bend them all, some, or need to buy LBs. pass this cost on plus 10 % to Owner. If you've never bent conduit before, figure on spending approx. 8 to 10 minutes per bend. Lb's take about 1 to 2 minutes to install.
Charge what you normally expect to make per hour and simply charge him on a cost plus basis. Mark up material cost 10% if you're responsible for obtaining materials , and charge by the hour. My electrician buddy charges $30 per hour for this type of work.
Hammer drilling every 30 inches? You'll wind up making a lot of money....but you'll never get another job from the same guy. ha! ha!
LOL.
Davo
Thanks for the reply but I'm talking about EMT not rigid conduit. I think I remember the NEC required straps more than 6 to 8 feet apart. Mostly close to boxes, panels, etc. I'm no hammer drill fan. Using weathertight couplings and connectors should be OK for outdoor installations. I've bent EMT before but never did quite figure out the markings on my bender--kind of winged it. Got a line on that Davo? Thanks.
Since this thread is totally off track, I'll just keep it going.
You guys from Canada, Rhode Island, Pittsburg and such. Come on down to MD. We need carpenters, bad! And the pay is really good.
Edited 8/2/2002 6:15:59 PM ET by CRAIGERMAN
MD stands for Medium Density, Right?
HDLOLExcellence is its own reward!
to keep things off track..I'm a guy from Pitt that just talked with a buddy tonight that;s thinking about moving to MD. He's down there now.....running custom trim.....met a guy at a diner..the offered close to $40/hr plus company truck and sign on bonus.....things that tight down there? I'd consider a move for those conditions...Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
I wish I could make that offer! They would be lined up for blocks wanting to sign on!
That sounds like a home builder- subcontractor offer. We have some carpentry subs that are payed that way and it works out great.
From what I understood...it was employee offer! My friend and I both said sounds too good to be true......he's got about 3 months more work down there....he's gonna look deeper. Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
The government has an official chart of what each trade gets to work on a government job. That should help you get a feel for the range. It's astonishingly low. But it is the real actual gross income for the person. Not what the government pays the contracting company. I think it's for the sake of unions that they establish this scale.
I don't know exactly where you could lay your hands on one of these lists. I saw it when I was working for and A&E that did a lot of work for the Army Corps of Engineers. I remember that the highest paid guy on the list was a plasterer at close to $20/hr. That sticks in my head. It went down from there. The mason's helper got paid pretty good, too. More than the electrician. Bricks weigh more than electrons, I guess.
The owner of a corporation or any business, I guess, need only pay himself the minimum to keep the IRS from becoming suspicious. My accountant puts that number around $20,000 in salary. Then you can have dividends or rent if you have an office in property you own personally. Hourly charges don't really translate into what the owner "makes." Being the boss is a big-picture kind of job.
Personally, my rates vary wildly depending on what I think the customer can bear and how hard the work is. I only work individually. I charge $90 an hour for stuff I think I'm really good at that other people can't do, but I only charge $15 an hour for stuff anybody can do, but they just don't feel like it, like standing in line for a building permit. Things that require really expensive tools, I charge a lot for that.
If you are interested in that official federal wage scale, you might try searching under the Davis Bacon Act (sp??). My general understanding is that this law requires that workers be paid the "prevailing wage rate," and that in practice the prevailing wage rate is determined by local union scale in urban areas. I wonder what is used as the benchmark in rural areas.
Being self employed isn't for everyone.. You may try it and become very dissapointed or you may be very successful. (A good wife does help)
Hi Acecan,
35 yrs. old, 16yrs. in building- look like i'm 100.
Self employed- 1yr. Billing @ $30/hr. Making money?????? Not much.
Apprentice is paid $ 12/hr. U.S. usually gets a larger check than me.
Love what I do. Sleep very well at night.
Ave. 40 hrs. a week paid, and all the unpaid overtime I could want.
No time for vacation ( customer says " when are you starting MY project" )
Company truck , cell phone ( Never give out that number!!!)
Happy to have work , in current local building drought.
No bennies.
Previous job- Leadman for high end residential contractor, 12 yrs.
Paid about $ 20/hr. at end, no vacation no bennies, 40 hrs./wk, 52 wks. a yr.
Old boss went Union last month, full medical, dental, vision, vacation, and pension.
Figures!!!
Ace,
Male/37/Constr. Supervisor/4 year constr. engineering and management degree/New Jersey/65,000 yr/1000.00 yr extra/no overtime/40-50 hrs week/ yes cell/yes union/50 % union. Note-Just got laid off for the first time in my life. Got an ulcer while working in job (very stressfull!) Just started seriously looking into going out on my own. Have 10 years construction experience in residential. Wife has good job...75,000 yr as civil engineer. Looking into remodeling business (spec and other). Good luck to you, Paul.
Money truly isnt everything. The construction industry can be awful sometimes. I recently left my job in NYC to become a teacher. This is a pay drop of over $70,000. I might return to construction if we move South, but it isnt worth it in NYC. I am lucky to have this opportunity, but I don't think anyone should spend over a third of their life doing something they don't like.
I'm real hesitant to discuss this subject on the internet but I think it's a valid question that should be discussed more often. How else do we know if we are paid properly for our efforts?
I'm a professional salesman who is paid straight commision. If I don't sell I don't earn. The market pretty much restricts the profit on a unit and if it didn't the fact that contractors talk among themselves certainly would. The first time you overcharge for a piece of equipment is the last time you'll sell to that person. (I have a lot of repeat business, it's what carry's me during the lean times)
I'm gonna list my wages by the hour since that's the way most of you do it, but so much depends on who the president is, If they elect someone who understands that to be strong the nation must prosper then the economy warms up and my income per hour goes up. If they elect someone who doesn't care the economy suffers. (and so does my income)
Please give me a pass on this guys, I don't want to hijack this thread....
1. sex Male
2. Age. 53
3. Occupation, Equipment salesman
4. sector, Rough terrain telescopic forklifts
5. Education AS/AA
6. Location Southern Minnesota
7. Income, $23 to 40 per hour see above
8. Extra income from cash jobs, None recently (building own home)
9. Paid holidays, None
10. Overtime pay, None
11. Average hours per week, currently 15-20 previously 60 to 70
12. Average weeks per year, 52