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Discussion Forum

How much solder to use

WorkshopJon | Posted in General Discussion on February 8, 2003 01:47am

This may seem like a dumb question, but I don’t do this for a living. This also has nothing to do with economics, just want to do it right.. I’m in the process of putting in a new bathroom (completely gutting EVERTHING) and was just wondering about how much solder the typical “Professional” plumber uses when sweating joints in copper? I’m finding that I use about 1″ of 1/8dia “leadfree” for 3/4 pipe.  My joints look OK to me, but I just thought I would ask.

Thanks

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  1. Steve1 | Feb 08, 2003 01:59am | #1

    im in th same boat not a plumber, but do lots of bathrooms and kitchen

    i always solder until a drop falls fron the joint,ie doesnt get sucked in

    1. WorkshopJon | Feb 08, 2003 02:11am | #2

      I agree, that's kind of what I'm doing now. Problem is, when it is a vertical pipe the drop of solder runs down the side and looks amaturish. But then again it could be that I'm just getting a little obsessive/compulsive about this. I just dont want to do sloppy work.

      1. User avater
        VtMike | Feb 10, 2003 03:58am | #11

        I'm new to this forum, so please excuse the intrusion. But Jon, allow me to help you out with that problem of solder running down the vertical pipe. Remember, solder won't go where there is no heat of flux (unless it's down your sleeve). I always wipe my joints so I have a rag in my hand. First I warm the fitting until the flux melts and flows down the pipe, then I wipe it off and solder the joint.  It's one of those things they don't teach you.

        It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

        1. Remodeler | Feb 10, 2003 07:29pm | #12

          a little off topic,

          I frequently have problems sweating couplings to pipe that stubs out of slab-on-grade construction.  A while ago a friend showed me that I could sweat it from the inside, i.e. flux and set the coupling or fitting on, heat, but run the solder from the inside of the fitting instead of the outside.  It works great for those times its tough to torch close to a bottom plate or concrete, etc.

          remodeler

          1. johnhardy | Feb 10, 2003 09:55pm | #13

            It hasn't been mentioned yet, but for vertical runs I start at the bottom. Heat rises, and this not only makes the "higher" fittings faster, but it doesn't continue to put heat on fittings you've already soldered.

            John

  2. archyII | Feb 08, 2003 02:59am | #3

    I'm not a plumber but I have repiped three houses.  You need to wipe the joints.  Once the solder is no longer sucked into the joint and starting to drip out, wipe it with a rag (I wear a leather glove and use that). If you wipe too soon or to strongly you can move the pieces and cause a leak. It takes practice.  I had a plumbing inspector remark how nice my joints looked and the inspection went pretty fast.  He told me that when the joints look like a dripping candle his inspection takes a lot longer. Make sure that you have heated the joint completely (all sides) before applying the solder (I look for the start of a green color flame).  That way you know the solder will flow and fill the entire joint.

    Anyone have any tips for wiping over head horizontal joints? I heat joint and apply the solder, drop the solder and wipe the joint (usually getting burned in the process).  Got to be a better way.

    Thanks

    1. allaround | Feb 08, 2003 03:27am | #4

      ARCHYII has some good tips, especially the one of watching for the change in the flame color.  I'll just add a couple more things.

      The usual rule of thumb is to use as much solder as is equal to the diameter of the tubing you're soldering.   Just make a 90º bend at the end of the solder equal to the tubing diameter.  When it's gone, you should have enough solder in the joint.

      Be sure to apply the solder to the side of the joint opposite to the side you're heating.  The heat will suck it around to the flame.

      Be sure not to overheat the joint - you'll burn the flux and end up with a leaky joint.

      When working on those overhead horizontal joints (or anytime your soldering, really), if you're using solder off a 1# roll, you can just transfer the solder to your "torch hand" by slipping the open core over one finger (the "ring" finger works best for me), then use your "solder hand" wipe the joint with the gentle application of a rag.

      Edited 2/7/2003 7:29:59 PM ET by allaround

      Edited 2/7/2003 7:37:04 PM ET by allaround

      1. ClevelandEd | Feb 08, 2003 03:59am | #5

        Since no one is shying away from questions from amateurs, I am going to post my own question:

        Any tips on how to get a nice "bead" of solder around the junction of the fitting and the pipe?  Or is it just a useless embellishment?  I have a repiping project slated for this Spring & Summer. 

        I haven't had any problems with my soldering, but I noticed when a contractor came in an installed a replacement  boiler that he was so in-tune with what was going on with the copper, his heating, and the solder that he left a perfect bead of solder around the shut off valves he intalled.  He didn't do any other copper work, so I don't know if he would have done the same "beading" with the smaller fittings that lack all of that cast brass mass.  

        Thanks.

        1. WorkshopJon | Feb 08, 2003 04:11am | #6

          This is just a guess.  Please do not take this as advice in any way. I have soldered copper pipe with both lead solder and leadfree(silver?) solder.  From past recollection, it's real easy to make a nicely finished joint with lead. Is it possible that's what he used? Just a thought.  I do find it alot more difficult to make nice looking joints with the leadfree solder.

        2. archyII | Feb 09, 2003 04:08am | #8

          He wiped the joint.  Wiping does help the joint but it is more of an aesthetic thing.  Wiping also removes some of the flux preventing the surrounding pipe from turning green with oxidation.

      2. hasbeen | Feb 08, 2003 04:20am | #7

        Good points, allaround

        As I'm heating the joint, I tap the solder onto the pipe when I think it's getting hot enough.  When the tip of the solder melts on contact I hold the solder to the joint until it runs, then I get off quickly.  If a bead forms on the bottom, I think too much solder was appied.  I've never really thought about how much lenght of solder I used.  I'm not a plumber, but wind up plumbeing my own projects relatively often.  Haven't had a leak for a long time, butit seems to me that joint prep is still of primary importance.

        Hasbeen

      3. archyII | Feb 09, 2003 04:20am | #9

        I will have to try the ring finger holder.  It's a pain in the butt to heat the joint, apply the solder, drop the solder to the floor and wipe the joint.

        Thanks for the tip

        Born and raised in Milwaukee, moved to Chicago 20 years ago for a job.  Family still in Milwaukee and Brookfield.  Go packers regardless if Brett is still there (live through the Phil years).  Fib's are still Fib's (wife hates when I say that since she is a Fib)

        1. andybuildz | Feb 09, 2003 04:35am | #10

          I always have my flux brush at my side and as soon as the solder is in the joint I take my flux brush that already has a bit of flux on it and wipe around the new solder joint. The brush and flux clean the joint super slick

          Be slick

                   Namaste

                               Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

          1. User avater
            GoldenWreckedAngle | Feb 10, 2003 10:17pm | #14

            I'm not a plumber but I do play one around the house from time to time. My father, however, is a master plumber and he used to use the flux brush trick all the time. It leaves a beautiful joint but there is one drawback. Several years ago he stopped the practice because the extra flux left on the pipe was causing excessive corrosion over time. Now he always takes a quick swipe at his joints with a rag while they are still hot.

            The technique he taught me for a clean, leak free joint is:

            1) Don't count on your flux for cleaning- clean the pipe and fitting well.

            2) Flux both pieces but don't get carried away. Use only enough flux to draw the solder into the fitting- as has already been pointed out, when the flux runs out of the fitting the solder follows it.

            3) Warm up the whole fitting but concentrate the final heat at the center of the fitting, not the end. The solder draws to the heat. The copper changes to a really pure color when the temp is just about right.

            4) Tap at the seam with the tip of the solder until a little bead breaks off and sticks. It will be sucked into the joint about a second later.

            5) Once that bead pulls in get off of it with your torch and lay a good bead of solder around the rim. The pipe should be hot enough to melt the solder without a flame at this point. It doesn't take much- when it pools at the joint like water at the rim of a glass just before it spills over, that's all it will hold.

            6) Put the flame back at the center of the fitting for just a couple of seconds to warm it back up and GENTLY wipe it clean with a cloth. Do NOT do this like your putting a spit shine on your army boots! The idea is to wrap the joint and twist like you are turning a screwdriver. The buffer technique buts a side load on the joint that is more likely to open it up.

            I'm not a pro at all but I have several hundred leak free solder joints to my credit following these guidelines.

            Kevin Halliburton

            "I have great faith in fools- self confidence my friends call it" -Edgar Allen Poe-

          2. andybuildz | Feb 11, 2003 12:59am | #15

            Kev

                 IMO..best post on the issue so far and thank your Dad for the info about fluxing after soldering...been doing that a long time..sure makes for a saten like finish....spose it was too good to be true

            Be well my brother

                              Namaste

                                        andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

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