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My primary focus is kitchen and bath renovation. I do have a showroom in a middle class area on Long Island. I have tried different approaches to build a successful business. I do believe that quality construction is the most important aspect of what we do. I find that most people that I come in contact with are “shoppers” who do not have a clue about quality construction, and relationship with good honest contractors. People do not comprehend that for a few dollars more the miters will be tight, the spackle smooth, the plumbing in crawl space properly insulated etc. Some of them pretend that they listen to the sell but are truly not listening to the message. Case in point – I prepared a layout for a potential customer with rough pricing (included extension. Had every aspect of the construction written out and the cost associated. End of conversation was “I would like to commit, but can not. we must bid the job out. It is just not smart to go with you at this point. What’s the architects phone number so we can deal directly with him and get the plans so others can bid it.”
The point of the post: A few months ago, my wife and I decided to trade one of our cars in for a new minivan. Went to the showroom while we were out one day and did not have the potential trade with us. While parking I said to my wife that I prefer to go home and get my car )the trade) and that we go in there knowing exactly what we wanted for the trade, how much we really want this deal to cost us and how we plan to finance. — We went into the showroom and spoke to a salesman. I told him to save the sales pitch as I am fairly convinced that he sells the model I want and the only part we need to discuss in the financial one. he immediately suggested that we speak after I have the trade vehicle present and know exactly how I want the deal structured. (I was very happy that I did not have to listen to the usual car salesman speech). We returned the following evening with the trade vehicle and knew what we would want to finance, at what rate etc. Deal was done that day. (I could care less if another dealer will beat him by 2% because this dealer is convenient, and the sales people are nice to deal with.)
I simply can not figure out why a customer enters a middle – high end kitchen showroom asking for service and when its presented, in a kind and clear manner, they simply can not commit.
I hate to bid jobs. i keep going on estimates, but after 20 minutes, I usually know who is a shopper and who is looking for me to do the job. then I only feel the need to get back to the people that are a sure sell( for a fair price [never gouge no matter how sure a sale it is]).
Basically I am just frustrated with pepole and look forward to hearing from the rest of you out there. Do you repond to all leads and estimates even if you know you are only bidding? Do you blow them away with high quote just to get rid of them or do you explain the contruction process and how to tell the real guys from the wanna be?
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I think people's method of shopping depends on their comfort level with the item to be purchased.
ANYONE shopping for a car can be relatively sure that the product will be virtually (or exactly) the same wherever they decide to buy it. They also get to see the product and drive it before they buy.
With reno's, MANY people can't tell a crown molding from a shoe molding. Even though it's explained to them, they may still be left wondering whether $20K for a kitchen is reasonable, and competitively priced. They can't test drive the kitchen before they commit their hard earned $
Therefore I think some people's preclusion to bid things out is to give them some reasonable comfort that they're not getting taken to the cleaners.
Of course, unless they have a design in hand and a written, detailed spec...they won't be able to compare apples to apples and their bids will be of dubious help.
*"I do believe that quality construction is the most important aspect of what we do."It has already been proven that your comment above is not correct. A "quality" product is not the most important. In fact, most members of the buying public don't even know what represents quality regardless of product.For example, think I could care less if the sheet metal skin on my pick is 18 gauge or 22 gauge? Or the primer and painting job? No, I naturally "assume" that most manufactures (and most contractors) use the same basic materials and the same basic techniques.In addition, unless you're selling to a German person or an engineer, every one else wants the most "flash" for their buck. The lower you sell to in the economic strata, the more "resistance" you will encounter simply because those buyers are much more price sensitive. Why do you think Wal-Mart, K Mart, Target and their competitors are doing so well? And why McDonalds, Wendys and Burger King are always full during breakfast, lunch and dinner time?No, the most important thing you can do, and to any business, is "marketing". Market to the segment of your area you want to sell to - and they are not the white or blue collar clients. Market and sell to the high end. Also, if you haven't already, take a few courses or seminars in "Salesmanship." There, hand in hand with a really good marketing program, is where the bucks are.As for "quality"? Does McDonalds represent "quality" food? Where do you buy your shirts and pants? While a Mercedes or Volvo may represent 1st rate "quality" notice how many Fords and Chevys are selling. Also notice the "snob" appeal, which impacts sales as well.Most people will buy an “average” product if everything also that goes along with it is reported to be exceptional. Finally, as some business people and regardless of the industry, say: “It’s all in the packaging.” And also remember, what we sell is a “promise,” not something tangible that a person can feel, touch, see, taste, try on or drive.
*The internet is a powerful that many people use for research. I read different car reviews and boards about the cars I was interested in. Most cabinet manufacturers have websites and there is a wealth of information available. People need to know that they can not bid out a Wood-Mode kitchen or a Rutt kitchen (or similar). Those cabinets have unique characteristics that may be difficult for others to compete with. We deal with one premium (imported) company and one top knotch US cabinet. They can only compare to same or very similar products. Most people know the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota but most can not tell the real difference between cabinets and their construction. I have no desire to compete on a kitchen being bid by some guy who sells Kraftmaid. They will need to realy on someone to identify the qualities of the cabinet in question. If they have certain expectations they should have a basic idea of the cost and be prepared to make the transaction. If they are not in this league then they should stick to stock cabinets and go to HD. Thats what they deserve.Frustrated with people,Sincerely.
*Ira,It sounds like you need to work on your marketing. You sound like you have a good company that wants to concentrate on quality, and professionalism. THAT is what you need to be marketing, and selling. Not everybody is in the market for those two things. Some, as you are finding out, are simply in the market for mediocre, or marginal quality. It sounds a lot like you are marketing wrong, and attracting the very people that you do not want to deal with. Do some market research, and find out exactly what type of client you want to deal with. Then find these types of clients by gegraphical location, and market your products and services to them. To give you an example of what NOT to do: I live in a rural area. Recently, a local cab company started advertising heavily in my area. They put up signs, took out ads targeting my area specifically, and then started handing out business cards at the local grocery store. Problem is, I live about 25 miles form the town that they are located in, and am not even gonna consider calling a cab to get me to town. If I can't drive myself, I'll find a ride. Can you imagine what a cab ride from the sticks into town, and back would cost? Bad advertising strategy on the part of the cab company. Targeted the WRONG market. Spent a lot of money and time doing it too.Find your market, and concentrate on selling your services to those people. Forget the tire kickers and shoppers. Just a thought...James DuHamel
*James is right on the money. Not everyone wants what you are selling. Don't be frustrated with them. How can they know this? You need to develop the reputation (through whatever marketing strategy you use) for being the guy to go to when qualitly and professionalism are wanted. When you hear people saying that you are too expensive, this is a good indication that you are on the right track. Most of the customers that you want don't mind paying for the best and those that want the best price won't bother you.
*> "What's the architects phone number so we can deal directly with him and get the plans so others can bid it."After hearing that statement some ceiling repair work would have needed to be done after I went through it. Wanting to get other bids is fine, check out other contractors, get some prices, come back and we'll compare apples to apples. However that statement is a major red flag, it speaks volumes of coming attractions. I wouldn't take that job on a bet. Depending on what kind of day I was having probably would have told them so as I gathered up the proposal and dump it in the trash. I certainly wouldn't let them leave with anything they didn't pay for.I've worked for guys that have done that.Scott R.
*Scott RThat was my initial reaction, too. Then I "slept on it" and thought why not say, "Certainly, Mr. and Mrs. Homeowner, I want you to be certain your getting the best value for dollars spent so if you'll just write us a check for $2500 for the design you can own it and take it to whom ever you feel is qualified to bid."Gee, I wish I could cogitate like that in the moment instead of the next day.........after I offered to knock somebody's block off!Thomas
*Ira, you seem confused.It sounds like you are marketing to uscale people, with upscale products, but are doing designs and "estimates" free.And you are also concerned about "gouging". And now you are frustrated.Are you frustrated because you aren't making enough to subsidize the rich tire kickers? Are you frustrated because you don't know how to qualify your buyers before you spend so much of your valuable time doing a detailed "estimate"?A change of selling strategy is in order. Take a clue from the car company ads. Offer a "standard" design that includes your basic features and products. Display the price tag on this "model". Add a small note that mentions that the price for the model is "X" when fully loaded.The tire kickers will leave your store immediately.You are instantly "sorting" your prospects, instead of "selling" them. Don't get bogged down on dead ends and don't get angry if they don't want your product/service that "gouges". blueps I've got some great sales training recently. I've always been horrible at sales, and would recommend that anyone that is as bad as me take some lessons.
*blue... where did you go to get your batteries recharged?.. you came back full of piss and vinegar..i want some of that
*I'll tell 'em blue,skim milk baby!rimshot!
*Ira...I am not sure I agree with the car dealership analogy. You were sold on both the car as well as the dealership before you walked in the door. I applaud the salesperson as he would not discuss specifics until he had all the "qualifying" information at hand, namely your trade in.Qualifying accounts/prospects is something you will hear much about. Qualified prospects are those that have both the need for your product as well as the ability to pay. If they have neither or only one of those then they aren't buying at that time.I agree on the comments about effective marketing. There is a difference between Architectural Digest and Better Homes and Gardens magazines. I think you have decided which you want to be in (AD), but verify the "addressable market", the one you want to sell to, exists and is accessible. Eastern and Western LI have large demographic differences.If you read sales 101 books two major themes come out. I feel qualified to discuss as I have spent the past twelve years selling transmission hardware to telecommunications companies, and have done quite well at it. I have learned that regardless of what one is selling the same principles apply; prices, selling cycles and objections are the variables."People buy from people they like": I have to agree with this, but with the qualifer that "liking" someone only happens over time, and to get to spend the time with them you have to have a reason to communicate. The buyer will subsequently learn you are a professional and why they would be better off acquiring what you have, and at that point your personality is the only obstacle to liking you. Therefore, (1) you will spend time with qualified buyers, and (2) they will become educated on what you are offering and why they are better off with you than others.Second, "sell features not benefits". This is the "so what" question, i.e. why is the customer better off with this product than not. You don't buy air conditioning in a car for the sake of air conditioning, you buy it because the AC will keep the car cool, which keeps the kids calm, which means you don't get frazzled by screaming kids during you five hour drive to your summer vacation spot. Seamless miters are a feature, I'd also say that uneducated buyers expect all bidders will have seamless miters. You need to identify your benefits.Be cautious writing off prospects too soon. Customers need a "compelling event" to make them want to buy. What is it that is forcing the buyer to evaluate something like high end cabinetry needs to be identified. Note the compelling event may not happen for months after you first talk, so after you have identified someone has the money to buy your product stay in touch with them.Marketing is up to you and needs to be thought out. Presumably you have some competition, what are they doing? Are there galleries or builders you can work with (remember referrals are a two way street, though).Most sales 101 books focus on selling commodities/near-commodities (high-end copiers, cars, etc.), or consultative selling (industrial and high-ticket). Both have applications in what you are trying to do, the main thing is to find a selling style that works for you and your customers, and to be able to adapt it to the situation and prospects personalities. Sorry if I am lecturing, perhaps I am a frustrated sales trainer in disguise. I'd love to do what you do, and wish I had the skills to do it. Best of luck....Mike
*Hehehehehe Mike. I had a weekend jam session with a top marketing expert from Utah. He's one of my newly found corporate leaders. I've also received some very valuable local training from some regional top producers. I'm also able to repeat some four hour training each week. I'm currently waiting for a group specialist training that is offered once a month in our area.Mike, track that guy down in your town and take advantage of a very good sales resource.I am regenerated and ready to roll. Too bad I have no interest in rough framing....Incidently my ISP's been down for the last four days. It seemed like eternity.blue
*I was killing time one day at a dog traders several years ago.A man showed up mad . We could tell this when he got out of his truck.I tried your coon dog he said ,and all it would tree is possums. Trader leaned over his chair and spit.If I would have known that dog treed possums I would asked more money. Wernt coons where you went . Now look how boring that would have been if that dog didnt tree possums. The man laufed. He told me he got him over it and maybe he will come back to spend money with him. nuff said
*You've received excellent advice. Here is more: Charge a $500.00 design fee which is applied toward the job if you get it. This has a tremendous qualifing effect on your prospects. If they balk, you didn't want them anyway. You'll close more than half of the fee payers, I'll bet. Good luck.
*Joe- Excellent advice which I have used myself. Obviously weeds out the tire kickers and lookie-loos wasting your time. When you charge a fee for design or consultation people take things seriously from the get-go, the meter's runnin' and they make the best use of their time AND yours. I can't beleive when people ask "oh, can't you just work up a quick little sketch?" , or "why don't you just pop on out to the house and take a look at what we want to do?" Unfrigginbeleivable. Some people just don't have a clue- guess that just means it's up to us to educate them - "Ma'am, we'll need to charge a design fee for that." Personally, upfront I DO NOT give my time away. Things of course can be different esp. if you've got an established relationship or some such. You know, if you give stuff away or sell for cheap, you better be careful 'cause people may not put much value on it.
*Lots of good input here. Ken I agree with not giving away your time. In fact I try to add in all the variables for the job, such as going to the lumberyard in the middle of the day. I will also say I am a born again carpenter as I am full time for the first time in 10 years. I spent the last 10 years selling bicycles as well as freelancing my remodeling skills. What I have found in both is if you look at the bottom dollar too much the client will sense it and relate it no matter how rich he/she is. I live in an area with very low wages and am amazed at the prices I get, WHY, because I care and spend time developing ideas. I meet with a person/couple TWICE before we sign an agreement! Once to ask questions about their living patterns and goals. The second to go over initial sketches and ideas. I have yet to be turned down on my bids. To me it is more than $$$. I know I will see them in the grocery or meet someone who knows them. This all adds up to future work. I live in a trading area of 100,000 , not to big, not really small but really see people I deal with every day. I know not evryone is good with people, but you can learn and deal with them on the level that makes them feel like kings! Like Patick Swayze said in Roadhouse, "Just be nice"