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Discussion Forum

How specialized are you?

Biff_Loman | Posted in Business on April 17, 2008 09:29am

While in the painting phase of my current project, I’ve had a lot of time to think about my “career.”  A question formed in my head: How specialized are you? 

I mean in terms of your services.  I formerly worked for a company that remodeled kitchens and baths, no new construction.  That’s specialized enough to develop a lot of task-specific habits, so it’s kind of a niche.  In practice it could get very broad, even to the point of finding subs to do custom plasterwork, gold leaf, and so on – every once in a while.

Of course, that was a team effort.

I’m contemplating how people build careers in the trades.  You get builders who do it all by cell-phone, framing crews who also build houses, small-time remodelers and handymen, and of course the great variety of specialized subcontractors, licensed and unlicensed.   

I know a fellow who makes a great living doing nothing but countertop installations.  No cabinets, no mouldings, nothing but counters.  Interesting niche.  He does work all over.

How about you?  

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Replies

  1. MattSwanger | Apr 17, 2008 10:35pm | #1

    I do alot of everything,  framing to finish. 

    I shy away from flatwork,  and other trades.  I do basic wiring but stay out of the panel,  do basic plumbing as well.

    Well this is what I did a month and a half ago,  I'll tell you in another 3 months what Im doing. 

    Woods favorite carpenter

     

  2. junkhound | Apr 17, 2008 11:27pm | #2

    .. do everything except illegal activities,  some major surgery, and restorative dentistry.

    <G>

    Specialization is making electrical/electronic stuff work that others botched. Fairly high demand.

  3. vintage1 | Apr 18, 2008 12:15am | #3

    Biff,

    I am a remodleling contractor so I don't get to specialize in any one trade for very long on a project.  Sometimes I think this limits my productivity and potentially my income, but I like to think that my specialization is finding solutions. 

    I make myself valuable to clients by finding the solutions to their projects and doing the work that subs won't/can't do.

     

  4. User avater
    basswood | Apr 18, 2008 01:40am | #4

    I started out doing punch list work and change orders for a builder in Colorado...that gave me rather broad experience. Then I bought, renovated and sold 4 houses. More very general experience. When I started my own contracting business I did general remodeling with a wide scope.

    Starting out, my business cards had a long "jack of all trades" list of everything I could do. Each new edition of my business cards has fewer, but more profitable items listed (stuff I am really good at and can estimate accurately).

    Now I am a trade specialist: trim carpentry and custom woodworking.

    1. Biff_Loman | Apr 18, 2008 01:51am | #5

      Nice! I've really developed an interest in the finish side of carpentry.I don't care much for the 'jack of all trades' moniker. 'Jack' meant laborer. . . way too much like 'hack' of all trades. The more things I try to do in a professional capacity, the more I appreciate the expertise involved in doing it excellently and quickly.

      1. User avater
        basswood | Apr 18, 2008 02:08am | #6

        Starting out I took everything, just to have work.Now I do what I enjoy, for the most part. Mostly "higher end" trim and I am fortunate to be staying very busy in what, is for many, a slow market.If things slow way down, I will add a few things back onto the list of stuff I do.

  5. Brudoggie | Apr 18, 2008 03:12am | #7

    Biff,

    I'm specialized enough to do everything from excavation, to the custom milled wainscot,trim,and cabinets, for your new home :)

    As a GC in both new and remodel construction, I: Often do the foundations & flatwork for my projects. Always frame,install the windows and doors, install the siding, any wood flooring, and anything considered trim carpentry. I'll roof it , if I built it.

    I sub: Electrical, plumbing, HVAC, most drywall and painting. I will do the drywall work, if the prject is too small to bother my sub (Bath remodel). I can do it pretty well, but not extremely cost effective. Same with painting. I also will do the stone work, if one of my 2 favorite masons is not available. Same result of decent work, but a bit slow. Actually, I wouldn't mind doing more stone work, as it is a dying trade here, and I enjoy it.

    In rural Wisconsin, there aren't many specialists.

    Brudoggie

  6. User avater
    Dinosaur | Apr 18, 2008 03:43am | #8

    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

    --Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
    (Robert A. Heinlein)

     

    So far, I've done everything on that list except the last (if you'll give me credit for butchering geese instead of hogs). When the time comes, I'll give the remaining item my best shot.

     

    Dinosaur

    How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
    low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
    foolish men call Justice....

    1. junkhound | Apr 18, 2008 07:28pm | #17

      Was not 'deliver a baby' part of the original quote? 

      Gotta admit have not done that (heck, when my kids were born in the 60's, dads were not even allowed to watch, my sons did get to help with their kids though )

       

      1. User avater
        Dinosaur | Apr 19, 2008 03:22am | #20

        You may be right, but I'm gonna be too lazy tonight to go dig out the original book to check. I copied the quote out of an illustrated art-book called The Notebooks of Lazarus Long, so if they got it wrong in there, I copied it wrong.

        But in any event, I 'helped' the doc deliver my son (and having been through it once, would be willing to try it alone if need arose).

        BTW, you oughta pick up one of those skin staplers. Makes putting stitches in yourself one-handed a heck of a lot easier. Ask me how I know that....

        Dinosaur

        How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....

        1. junkhound | Apr 19, 2008 03:39am | #22

          The way you had it is was copied correctly from the reference --- maybe a different set of quotes had the 'deliver a baby'

          http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/Heinlein.html

           

           

    2. DRose | Apr 20, 2008 08:12am | #24

      Try as I may, I have never learned to take orders well. 

      1. dovetail97128 | Apr 20, 2008 08:36am | #25

        Well just remember Heinlein is famous for writing fiction.

        Edited 4/20/2008 1:37 am by dovetail97128

      2. User avater
        Dinosaur | Apr 21, 2008 06:05am | #27

        Try as I may, I have never learned to take orders well. 

         

        I don't remember anything in Lazarus Long's directive about having to take them well.

        If you read the book, you will know that he himself took orders badly, in small doses, and only when absolutely necessary to advance his long-term strategy....

        Dinosaur

        How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....

        1. DRose | Apr 21, 2008 06:51am | #29

          What book is this?  Quote like that would stand out.  Never even heard of the author

          1. User avater
            Dinosaur | Apr 21, 2008 07:18am | #30

             

            From: 

            Dinosaur <!----><!----> 

            Apr-17 8:43 pm 

            To: 

            Biff_Loman <!----><!---->

             (9 of 30) 

             

            103563.9 in reply to 103563.1 

            "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

            --Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love(Robert A. Heinlein)

             

             

            http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/biographies.html

             

            Dinosaur

            How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....

          2. Engineerguy | Apr 21, 2008 10:50am | #31

            You would have to be a fan of science fiction to know of Robert Heinlien.  IMHO, he is one of the Masters of Science Fiction. 

            The only book of his that was made into a movie was Starship Troopers.  And even then, it was only a poor adaptation of the book.   

            *Side note: Starship Troopers is the only science fiction novel on the reading list at four of the five United States military academies. 

            Impossible is an opinion.

          3. DavidxDoud | Apr 21, 2008 11:26am | #32

            I won't do high energy physics, beyond the energies available at CERN - high fashion clothing design has never interested me - I will not be president (supreme dictator? we can talk...)"there's enough for everyone"

  7. DougU | Apr 18, 2008 06:14am | #9

    I dont like to limit myself like Junkhound.

    103563.3

     

    Doug

    1. Biff_Loman | Apr 18, 2008 01:37pm | #10

      This is so interesting. I've had the opportunity to meet way more specialists than, uh, generalists. :-) I guess I feel like I'm too much in the middle, at the moment, since I have no experience with exterior work. I've never roofed, installed siding or windows, or framed anything aside from partition walls. But I'm comfortable doing most anything inside.

    2. junkhound | Apr 18, 2008 07:21pm | #15

      103563.10 in reply to 103563.1 

      I dont like to limit myself

      Have put numberous stitches on myself when both hands free, when I needed 157 stitches on left hand from a chain saw mishap (or when there were 37 pieces of my skull to re-arrange after dropping a tree on my head many years ago) I did go to a doc occasionally

      . Hard to do stitches one handed or when unconscious, DW does not like to do that stuff, but she does cut my hair, etc......

      1. DougU | Apr 19, 2008 02:05am | #18

        JH

        You;  do everything except illegal activities,

        Me;   I dont like to limit myself

        That was just my attempt at humor!

        Doug

        1. junkhound | Apr 19, 2008 03:16am | #19

          Thought maybe you had tried filling cavities or open heart surgery <G>

  8. dovetail97128 | Apr 18, 2008 05:43pm | #11

    I can and have done (and own the tools for) all of the items listed below.

    Footing excavation (by hand), foundations, frame, flatwork , siding, roofing (except slate and tile), windows, doors, drywall, insulation, minor painting, built cabinets and installed them.

    Floor coverings (except carpet), stairs, trim, garage doors, hardware (locksets, bath hardware etc), installed vents for baths , kitchens , heaters etc., counter tops of various types, are also items I have done.

    I was as the owner, business manager, sometimes project designer and draftsperson, purchasing agent, quality control, payroll/bookkeeping person, tool repair guy, research office for new materials & techniques, sales manager, site super and foreman, punch list specialist and warranty repair person, plus vehicle maintenance person for company rigs.

    I played at being an electrician only when absolutely needed and then under guidance from a pro, same with large plumbing installs. Repairs I can usually handle.

    Used to do most of the first 3 paragraphs on a regular basis as part of being the GC on custom 1 of a kind homes/remodels. It was the way I was trained in the field of building as it was the way it was done in the region I learned the business in.
    Specialization was for the mechanical (HVAC, Plumbing and Electric)here in those days.

    I wouldn't recommend it as a way to go (too many hats!!) but then again I never ever lacked work (just the desire to do it!)

    I am certain all my work in all those areas was not as good as that of specialists but at least I knew who to hold responsible when it wasn't up to par.

    Now I mostly act as site super and love it. Everything I learned along the way comes in very handy as I can talk to most subs with some real understanding of the problems/issues they have.

    Pick your poison.

    They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
    1. Biff_Loman | Apr 18, 2008 06:11pm | #12

      I'm glad I started this thread.  This is so much grist for the mill.  I hear you on the too many hats thing.  That's what has me thinking about the future so much.

      The company for which I worked as project manager went under, and their former installer has a good thing going.  He pays our former boss on a commission basis to do sales and design work.  She takes the calls, measures the site, designs the job, and I think even does an estimate.  He takes a look, does a precise quote, and does everything else, including managing all the subs (my job, once upon a time).

      It seems like a good way to divvy up things, to me.  Me, I don't know if I could rise to the occasion and pull it all off without losing my mind.

      1. dovetail97128 | Apr 18, 2008 06:29pm | #13

        ""Mind"' Yea, I think I had one of those at one point in the beginning.
        Can't remember anymore. ;-)
        They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

  9. User avater
    IMERC | Apr 18, 2008 06:30pm | #14

    not at all...

     

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

    WOW!!! What a Ride!
    Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

  10. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Apr 18, 2008 07:24pm | #16

    How specialized depends on how densely populated the area is and what's booming at the moment. 

    Being a country carpenter, one who's had to do a little of everything to keep busy, I've been surprised and delighted to find that I actually could specialize and call my own shots when living in cities like Dallas/Ft Worth or Miami. 

    I'm in favor of learning any specialty which comes along, just because it's another skill to apply in my own home and another way to earn money when things get tight. 

    I wish I'd been more open minded and diligent about looking for opportunities to learn other skills.  I'm sure I've missed several chances to improve my knowledge and income, just because I didn't follow up on something I heard about.

     

     



    Edited 4/18/2008 4:50 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter

  11. cargin | Apr 19, 2008 03:35am | #21

    Bill

    We are remodeling contractors in a rural area. If it's on, in or near the house or barn then we do it or have done it.

    I do minor plumbing and wiring. Bathroom remodels and countertop changes.

    We do drywall because we can't get the pros to look at our small jobs.

    We do concrete work when we have to, but we don't have a bobcat.

    We like to do roofing because it's just simple plain hard work and I can usually bid it to make money. the HO stays on the ground and the color choices are limited and HO's DW doesn't get involved. Plus you can go thru 2K in materials (and markup) faster than you can with minor repairs.

    Rich 

  12. Jim_Allen | Apr 20, 2008 07:31am | #23

    Interesting topic Bill. Most contractors don't give this area of thought enough attention and wander all over the construction map.

    I myself am in transition and looking for a niche in a new market. The cultural differences pose a big challenge to me because I was a framer, specializing in custom frames. Around her, a custom frame might go for $2.50 a foot and the crew would take a month to do it. We wonder where they get their gas money to finish it LOL!

    We shifted in the General Contracting arena back in MI and are carrying it on here, but I can't say we are specializing in anything right now.

    The latest edition of Remodeling Magazine warns that contractors should know what their "sweet spot" is and concentrate on it. That seems to be good advice. That's what I used to do when I framed the customs and I did fine. Before that, I'd take on GC jobs but didn't handle them well because I was a Carpenter, not a phone guy. I'm still that way but I'm smart enough to know that if I don't work well on the phone to find someone that does.

    Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

  13. MSA1 | Apr 20, 2008 04:26pm | #26

    Kitchens and baths are the bread and butter.

    However, the store has been running low on bread and butter here in Michigan, so at this point i'll pretty much pick up dog doo doo if you'll pay me.

     

  14. Waters | Apr 21, 2008 06:45am | #28

    First starting out, my father and another contractor told me I should specialize... soon.

    They were right.

    I do general remodeling from K&B to custom cc counters, to arts and crafts fences, patio door installs, siding repairs, roofing...Tile.. I can do electric and plumbing (but for another thread--where is the line drawn with legality and experience... I'm not a licensed elect or plumber...) among other things...

    but this is stupid!  Inefficient to say the least.  Always shuffling tools and equipment, materials in and out of the truck and trailer...

    My Dad said, "You should have one thing to do.  Everything ready in the truck, get up and go."

    He was totally right, when it comes to efficiency and making money at this racket. 

    I will say this though.  I like doing something different every month or so.  I think I'd go crazy if all I did was wake up and go do one thing, every day.

    Pat

    "Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."

     

  15. Jencar | May 14, 2008 04:19am | #33

    I've been a carp for 25 years and a GC for 12. I've settled on door and window installs as my specialty. Make the most money in the least amount of time, with less headaches than a kitchen or bath remodel; and usually the customers LOVE their new doors.
    Once you have the tools and a system, a door or window install goes quick, unless SOMEBODY ordered the wrong size window/door and you end up pulling trimmers or planing 1/2" off of a header to get the new jamb to fit.
    Lately tho I've built a fence, a patio cover, and I'm about to start soundproofing a practice room for a student drummer.
    Whatever pays the bills...

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