How to attach decorative beams from below?
RICKJY
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Hi All,
We have a cathedral ceiling and we’ll be adding decorative 6×6 cedar beams running from the walls up to a ridge beam. The lengths will be 18′. I would like to attach the beams from below without having visible fasteners, and I’m considering two options. One option is to use trim head screws with a small bit and then fill the holes. The other option is to just use construction adhesive and wedge the beam in place until the adhesive sets. Will the construction adhesive hold?
Thanks,
Rick
Replies
What happens if the glue doesn't hold? (Even trim head screws may not be sufficient, depending on how they're used.)
Well, the beam would separate from the ceiling but it wouldn't fall because it will be held at the wall and wedged against the ridge beam. Worst case, I'd have to add a bunch of big ugly screws. I'm wondering if someone can vouch for the strength of construction adhesive for an application like this.
I'm slightly confused...
Do you mean the 6X6's are to serve as decorative beams [horizontal] or posts [uprights]?
Either way though cedar is notorious for being delivered with high moisture content and shrinking. Lumber shrinks some in length, though not asmuch as in width. Point being that if it is decorative, with no weight on it I wouldn't count on a wedge fit holding it in place.
As for the glue alone in something that heavy, I'd vote no. Too many what-ifs and too many ways to hide or accent secure fasteners.
Hi, the beams would decorative running up a cathedral ceiling. From the 8' wall up to a ridge beam about 20' up.
Sounding like we should not use adhesive though.
rick
I wouldn't put them up with adhesive only.
And I'd be wary of screws and adhesive.
GRK makes a nice selection of screws, I have used some 6" trim head screws, they may have longer. But-where are you putting these screws? Toe screwing up at the beam, same at the wall plate? What do you have to screw to along it's length?
Lag and plug. You can drill plugs out of scrap, they'll match-worst case, look like pegs. Still have no idea how you'll keep the length from sagging.
Thanks.
I'd be screwing into a 1 1/2" wide truss running parallel to the beam. I was thinking of screwing from the underside of the beam straight up into the truss. I could use a long thin bit to avoid screws longer than 6".
Are you wary of adhesive due to beam shrinkage? I considered seasoning the beams for another year.
rick
I'm answering on a borrowed laptop down there in Nashville.............'
I hate laptops
I do not much care for macs.................something to get used to I guess.
I do like Nashville..................heard a 16 y o guitar player sit in last night......................Man, can that kid play. He's gonna be somebody down here soon.
And I've not read the rest of the posts, so this might be a repeat.
Adhesive what to what? Movement/shrinkage or not-the glue would stick to the beam, and stick to the............'
Paper of the drywall? Paint on the paper?
Not something I'd relish a customer sitting under.
or my grandchildren.
And friction holding it up? The plumb cuts at the ridge and wall would only be friction fit on that faux beam. The surfaces of each is parallel-so no support under it at all, and even if you cut the drywall away to make a wood to wood connection-poor holding power for anything but a styrofoam beam.
Bolt and plug.
Generally, the way to attach decorative beams is to make them hollow, attach cleats to the ceiling, and then nail/screw through the sides of the beams into the cleats. And if the beams are fairly wet when installed it may be best to slot the cleats and attach very slightly loose to the ceiling with lags and washers, so they can shift as the beam shrinks.
Hi Dan. I thought about hollowing sections using a chain saw, but that idea was shot down.
My solution is a tub made of whatever wood is appropriate, attached to a 2X ripped to whatever width I need.
The tub is glued together with biscuits for alignment. Be careful to keep the biscuits close to the inner edge of the verticles to keep them from coming through the roundovers. I sometimes also add pocket holes between the biscuits to hold things together until the glue dries. Again be careful of how close to the roundover they will be.
You can use either screws or brads to attach the tub to the 2X. the choice depnds on how heavy the "beam" is, and how high up. No one will see the holes from brads or finish nails if the beam is up 12 or 16-feet. At my house in Vegas it was 17-feet to the ceiling on the low side, and then went up to 23-feet on the high side.
The hard part of doing it was getting 24-foot 1X to avoid a splice in the middle. Doing it again I would use finger jointed wood. to simulate a glulam beam.
That's a great solution for a box beam. Unfortunately, we have solid cedar and the family already ruled out hollowing the beams to accomodate cleats.
I'll probably just screw from below.
Sounds like they don't want it done right, and just want it to levitate.
How about using GRK laghead screws. Countersink them with a 3/4" hole and fit wood dowels in and cut off high to create a pegged beam / timberframe apearance?
I'll consider that. Thanks.
The beams would be solid seasoned cedar 6x6. About 170 lbs each.
A 170 pound beam that's shrunks 3/4" since you installed it isn't going to remain "wedged" for very long, when the glue lets go.
If all else fails, slot the backside of the beam every few feet, install it on T cleats attached to the ceiling, and run whatever fastener works through the side of the beam.
Hope I'm not too late
Hey Rick,
First of all if it's decorative there would be nothing wrong with mounting cleats to the wall and attaching the box (with mitered corners, so the edges are not seen) to that.
If they want a solid post, then you must install it as a post. Raising the beam 1/4" and fitting that monster, with the correct fasteners for your area. Including having proper footing. If not you "RISK TOO MUCH"!!
Structural adhesive will skin before you press the post into it, and it'll still have to be held in place for 24 hrs. for the initial bond is set. You can't just shoot it in from the side (it's not caulking). It should be pressed into the adhesive, pulled back (so you have a adhesive to adhesive bond) then set back into the adhesive, then braced.
Be sure there isn't any electrical behind the drywall, often times they'll run the wires up that beam brace behind the drywall to feed lighting, or even a loft. It's the easiest way they can run the wires, before the drywall is installed.
Hope this helped.
DanH is the only sober one here.
Absurd! 6x6 timbers are only used as framing structure support, not hanging as deco. For matter of Cost, Safety, Do-ability and even possible lighting enhancement. Just a 3 sided box with mitered edges pinned to a cleat that is securely fastened to the ceiling is all that is needed. If you already have the timbers, have them ripped to 3/4". Final finish can be re-sawn or planed.
How is it that you are adresssing posts when this thread is about beams?
Use Faux Wood Box Beams
I agree solid wood beams should not be hung from the ceiling without support. What you need is "Faux Wood Beams"
They can be made but you can also buy them. and most of the manufactures do a good job of hiding the miter joint so it looks like a solid beam. Google - Faux wood box beams - and if you see some you like have a sample sent to you before you order. Otherwise if you are good with miter jionts you can make your own by slabing the beam into 3/4 " section and mitering the corners together. Good luck
Beams
Dont do It! Totally bad idea. heavy, twisting,shrinking . I have been a finish carpenter for 40 years. install a built up beam. install a nailer of plywood, 1 1/8 or couple layers of 3/4 to the backing trusses or framing, or glue and use a lot of big toggles. then install a built up beam doing the sides first and attaching to the nailer, then either attach the face to the sides or set it within the sides of the beam, you will get tighter fits, lighter beam, much better material to paint or stain.
Decorative beams on the ceiling
Rick,
In my humble opinion, your idea of using 'REAL' 6x6 beams is a seriously bad idea, for all the reasons others have already mentioned.
I wanted the same thing in our house. I attached 2x4's to the ceiling with toggle bolts if they didn't line up with joists, and lag screw if they did. I used 3/4' thick red oak pieces, with mitred edges to form three sided boxes. They were about 3 by 6, and about 12 feet long. I attached them to the 2x4's with my air powered trim nailer. I custom made trim at the ends along with crown molding around the perimeter. It looks great and has been up for about 20 years. If you'd like, I could post or email you photos.
Bob the cartoonist.
Beam finishing
Similar to other posts, we installed solid wood beams on our kitchen's tray ceiling. They looked great until the wood shrunk, moved away from the ceiling and gaps appeared between beams/segments.
Any suggestions on how to trim the beam so the gaps along the ceiling and at the joining areas are hidden? Photos of work you have done that has been successful would also be helpful.
Thanks!
NH, how bout the reciprocal?
Post some pictures of your problem and maybe something will come up to solve it.