I want to build a pair exterior doors, the inside will be 3/4 inch quarter sawn white oak. The exterior needs to be a 1 inch material. I feel that quarter sawn white oak would be a wast of beautiful wood. I plan to paint the exterior for matinance resons,south facing,direct sun light,no protection from weather, paint should hold up much better then any finish. Does anyone have any experance glueing up a fairly stable wood to something not as stable like popular,alder,or even flat sawn white oak, or maybe a man made product like MDX? Cost isn’t really the issue, duribilty and low matinance is the issue.
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Replies
the inside will be 3/4 inch quarter sawn white oak. The exterior needs to be a 1 inch material
Total thickness? Sounds like you're wanting to assemble extremely thick wood, some or all of which will be crossbanded? Makes no sense to me so far.
Walnut will paint much better than white oak, while providing excellent rot resistance.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I think he wants to face-glue solid 3/4" oak to solid 1" of "something else" like MDF, etc.
Sure, no problem, let us know how it turns out :)
DG/Builder
I think you should make both doors out of solid 8 quarter 1/4 sawn white oak. It will be less work and less problems than laminating two totally different materials. You can oil prime the outside with 3 coats and then finish off with oil or latex paint. Inside you can still stain or poly and the door will look good from both sides.
Why not build the door out of kiln dried fir 2x material and skin the interior side with the wood of your choice?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Why not build the door out of kiln dried fir 2x material and skin the interior side with the wood of your choice?
You got a 36" wide planer? You're a better man than I. Why not buy solid door slabs from the nearest lumber yard and skin the inside with whatever veneer you want? Nah... no fun...
DG/Builder
Did he say slab door?
Musta missed that.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
The only way I've successfully built slab doors is multilayer laminations and then finish/seal the entire door in epoxy (clear) resin to prevent changes in dimensions due to moisture content.
Will add more later if slab doors further discussed.
IMO, it is 'gross misdemeanor' to paint oak, let alone walnut.
IMO, it is 'gross misdemeanor' to paint oak, let alone walnut.
LOL... Must not be much of it growing in your woods. Around here, it's firewood but for the large boles. Both species. I've used a lot of walnut for exterior painted shutters when the client wanted a particularly smooth paint job. Works very well. PT I don't use.
Last walnut tree I sliced here yielded about 500 bd ft of lumber, various grades. The remainder of the tree was a large pile of firewood. Other than walnut, I wouldn't have bothered to drag the last two logs out to saw. Tree was a blow-down several yrs ago.
I've got a lot more oak than walnut. Want a smallish log or several? It's firewood below 16" dbh, and considerably larger if there's much indication of internal stress. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Same here. My FW guy is buying butts from the veneer log mill up the interstate..I been burning all cherry, walnut and w.o and hard maple this yr. Wooo-hee we had some nice hot burning.
Start yer 'maters yet?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" the best investment in life, is a handle on love''
3" and rising. 'Maters, not me.
Going no-till this yr so I'll get lots of volunteers.
Supposed to be snow/sleet today, but it's barely spitting. I've been moving raspberries and some other berry, about to be "endangered", whose name I've forgotten, but promised to make the raspberries taste flat in comparison. Split them between woods' edge and rooftop. The other berry came courtesy of a professional gardener from his employer's farm. Figured that if I had to beat back the tulip poplars and maples trying to get started on my roof, I might as well encourage something I'd like. The other choice, I briefly considered, was a croquet set I saw at last Saturday's auction. But that would require a lawn mower...
The wooded area (now house pad), above where your boulder forlornly awaits you, was so thick with raspberries you couldn't walk through. Wonderful fruit, so I called everybody I could think of and we hauled off hundreds of plants. My 80 acres had exactly 1 raspberry plant- that I'd found.
As you know, we burn very little wood. An armful last night, first time in a few weeks. My Ohio houseguest wants to heat his 20k ft factory with plywood, wood, and hardboard scraps. Sure glad I'm not downwind. Not that my neighbors' burn barrels are much cleaner with all that plastic, but the volume's less and they aren't close. He was shocked when I told him I viewed it as a moral issue. But what do I know? Maybe all that formaldehyde just gets burned...
Lovely, pair of pileated woodpeckers out there looking for breakfast. Always a reason to leave some standing dead trees. Ever'body needs a home and somethin' to eat. Redbuds are about to explode- must be spring. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I think my total starts is 144 peppers and maters, mostly hots and expect many volunteers as well, so I went easy on the maters.
I have to make some new beds, out in the full sun, farther from the water source of course..to get these guys in the ground.
Bought 3lbs of red onion starts..man, thats a LOT of onions.
Snow/sleet/freezing driz here today...might get a mini green house going later if I get an uncvontrolable urge, it just happening yet, so the starts are in an upstairs bathroom with a heat lamp..LOL
That crazy woman in Pa. is really starting to wear me out, and it just keeps getting worse..if I rent a car and travel there ( when) I wanna come by an visit you..OK?
sorry for the Hijack, it was important. (G)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" the best investment in life, is a handle on love''
But does she know she's crazy? <G>
You'd be welcome. Gotta schedule though, only 1 guest bed here. Oh, no smoking inside, or wearing shoes. Find sox that are intact or we'll laugh (and give you a pair).
Uh, you really think that rock'll fit into a rental car? I suggested my buddy bring his company delivery truck down. So he shows up in a BMW ragtop. And no, he didn't want a rock in the passenger seat.
Guess we live in the mini greenhouse. Sprouts are happy on a S. windowsill. Farther from your water source? You need help. Peruse this: http://ag.arizona.edu/OALS/ALN/aln46/lancaster.html
You're doing 10x the growing I do.
Back to the thread: I'd strongly second the motion to fill the door with insulation. That's what I did, to the point of 2 1/4" (one is 3") thick doors. Unfortunately, I believed my vendor, that their hardboard was exterior-rated. It wasn't. I like copper cladding on the outside. Door in a door:PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I can dig it. No shoes, no shirt, here's yer service ya fit right in.
The nice rock is sounding like an arbitrary load. I have one that is not so forgiving. I assume it is still against the law to commit matricide.
shoot me an email for direction from 64?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" the best investment in life, is a handle on love''
Will these be panel doors or slabs? Either way, if you build them out of solid wood they will probably warp. The coor should be something stable, like finger jointed white pine, 1-1/4" thick. Then veneer 1/4" oak to the inside and something suitable for the elements to the outside. If it's slab doors, you'd want the entire door like this. If it's panel doors, you'd want the styles and rails like this.
Panels should be premium grade, exterior plywood with oak veneer on the inside and whatever exterior wood you used on the outside. The panels should be floating, in other words not glued into the grooves.
I'll let others elaborate but that's the basics.
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FT Job Wanted: Chicago, north side/North Shore burbs.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=70809.1
I believe you are talking about a plank door - or pair of plank doors. A plank door would have vertical boards on both sides, usually v-joint tongue and groove. We make these weekly. The center core is a "ladder" frame of mortise and tenon 1" thick material, all jointed flat and square, with 3" deep mortises in the stiles to receive 5 to 8 cross rails. The voids in the mortise and tenon core are stuffed with rigid insulation, and then the v-joint boards, properly gapped are fastened on to both sides at once and slid into the vacuum bag. Urethane glue is used for all the M&T joints and gluing the boards in place. Be sure to anticipate the proper gaps for the wood. This means knowing your species, the MC of all the lumber, and the anticipated EMC for your area. I would always put the same species, same thickness on both sides with no exceptions.
As to quarter sawn, paint and propriety, an old timer once told me all wood for good work was quartered when he was "coming up" in the casket shops in the area. All other cuts of wood were called firewood.
Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com Prototype website
Thank you acornw you got the picture I was tring to paint.I have trouble expresing what I mean when I write.So it sounds like I'll be building this out of quarter sawn white oak equil thickness. I belive laminating two pieces 3/4 material will create a little more stability in the styles and rails instead of using 6/4 material. Do you belive I'm on the right page? oh yea I did forget to write that it's craftman style I going to build. Just about what you discribed, MC and epanstion and contraction are big concerns. again thank you for the help.
The factory-made stile and rail wood door manufacturers mostly all use a "stave core" glue-up of softwood such as pine. That means edgeglued rips of knotfree lumber, with species wood on the to-be-exposed edges.
Then species "veneer" is glued to both faces. I use quotes on veneer because it can be thin, or on the better priced doors, thick to 1/8" and thicker.
So a core of nominal thickness, sawcut across, looks like a butcher-block layup.
Learn from this. In many years of doormaking, the engineers from all these places have settled on this stavecore thing as probably the most stable.
Reinvent the wheel, and you might have to do another reinvention soon thereafter.
I have a different take on small scale door production. The stave built stiles and rails of mass-produced doors are a product of both stability and mass production methods. It is far easier to train one grading individual in a large process to put "good" wood on the door faces than it is to train all the rough mill to grade consistently. Hence the mass production solution of stave built doors. The stability is secondary. A third consideration may be wood usage in some species.
The engineers do their thing at door plants, but so do the accountants. The accountants stay late, trying to shave another $2.00 off costs. I'm convinced that the accountants succeed more often than the engineers. Witness Marvin's new South American door manufacturing plant.
For the small scale shop, making a few doors a month, it is far easier and better to use solid wood. Assumed is the fact that the woodworker can distinguish good wood from stressed or reaction wood (important in either method), and can control his/her own efforts. There are fewer processes to perform to build in solid wood, with the ensuing "less to go wrong." In a working lifetime of building solid wood doors, I have only had .0006% develop problems. Two of those were Poplar exterior doors, so no more building in Poplar, and two were improper installation/finishing/exposure. To be fair and balanced, the few stave core doors I have built also had no problems, but solid outnumbers stave built 500 to 1.
While one is certainly free to build whichever way one chooses, it is best to have as much data at hand to make informed decisions. If I were to build a car, I certainly would not be capable of doing so the way Mercedes does, but the final product can be well built, reliable and as good as I want it to be.
Dave S