Hello,
I’m thinking of building a pizza oven and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a good website or book. Some of the questions I have are …
Do I have to use fire bricks? Size of oven, openings, & chimney? Do I need a door? Do I need openings for air flow? What kind of stone is best for cooking pizza and breads?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Anthony P.
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Replies
Something that has looked interesting to me (but I am yet to do) is a cob oven. Cob is a mix of clay, straw, and sand formed into loaf-shaped "cobs" that have been used for millenia for all kinds of building including ovens.
The basic process seems to be: build a foundation of stone, build a dome of sand, stack cobs over the sand, let the cobs dry, remove the sand, finish the outside to protect it from the weather.
A quick google will get you loads of hits where people have documented their process as well as teach classes.
It also should be low-cost and low risk enough to take on without sweating it too much, and the people getting muddy look like they are having fun with the process regardless of the product.
-jim
On the other hand you could get a Big Green Egg. Mine produces pizza just as good as from a brick oven.
Those Green Eggs are nice, but not the same as a retained heat oven. Mine gets up over 1000° above the food, with a floor temp of around 700° for pizza. (You want a pretty hot fire off to the side, flowing over the dome and the pizza, to do this right. Most commercial places don't even do this properly.) Done to perfection in 90 seconds flat. Then, bank the fire and roast dinner, rake out the coals and bake desert and bread with retained heat. And I'm thinkin' you can even load up a pork butt after that and let 'er slow roast all night. (That's next on my list of things to try.) All fired with scrap from the lumber dealer, cutoffs, etc.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Hey, My Lovely Assistant and I just built one of these this fall! It rocks! I'd be happy to get you pointed in the right direction, chat, etc. as needed. The first place to look is a book: "The Bread Builders", by Alan Scott and somebody else whose name escapes me now.
This type of oven is good for a lot of things, being a traditional wood-fired oven. It's a lot of masonry and it is slower to heat (and, consequently holds heat longer) than a strict pizza oven, which tends to be thinner-walled (faster to heat, & also cools faster). Which direction you go will depend on what you want to do with it. IMHO, the traditional oven is more versatile, and while it uses a bit more wood, it doesn't use as much more as the Pizza Oven Nazzis claim.
The Scott oven is an arched dome. The "pizza oven" is usually a full dome, like an igloo. These are usually made from kits that have the shaped pieces to make the dome.
A good resource for the domed oven is the Forno Bravo site. They have a good discussion forum for wood ovens.
Here's a few of ours in various stages of construction:
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Nice work Mike, ,that looks really good. I wanted to built one for a while now but was always thinking: how often do I use a oven like this? Are you using yours a lot? It looks as when it is close to a door to the house, what about smoke getting in the house?Martin
It's on the porch, just off the kitchen. Smoke is vented up & away via a chimney. We use it pretty much every weekend, almost.
Here's the roof & vent coming off the stove (thanks again to Grant Logan for the help with the standing seam advice) and the chimney pipe.
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Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Edited 2/5/2008 2:10 pm ET by MikeHennessy
seriously nice work, Mike. beautiful house.
from the time you light the match to the time you are eating pizza....
how long is that ?
carpenter in transition
Thanks. It's gettin' there.
"from the time you light the match to the time you are eating pizza.... how long is that ?"
For pizza, you don't need to deep heat the masonry much. You do need to get the surfaces up to temp, tho'. To do it right, you need to get it at least hot enough so all the soot burns off -- about 900° or so. In my oven (which is pretty small), that takes about an hour, burning a hot fire of about a liquer box of kindling/cutoffs and maybe 3 or 4 small "logs" (firewood split to about 2" -- you get two or three of these out of one normal fireplace log.) Time-wise, not really that much longer than getting a nice charcoal fire going.
To deep heat the oven for retained heat baking, like bread or roasts, stews, etc., it takes 2+ hours of a medium fire.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
there is a version of an adobe oven in a cookbook by Bernard Clayton in his
" New Complete Book of Breads"
it's in the back of the book, perhaps you could adapt the style, since it appears to be built on the ground, and contains among other materials..... concrete blocks as the base, 129 common bricks, 3- 98# bags of concrete and a large coffee can for the stack
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What about the pics you have of that bread oven Ian did that plug for?
I didn't build that oven; it was only a repair job (a new protective roof structure and also a bit of re-parging). But for those who are interested, here are some pics.
The oven itself is a traditional Québecois fourneau; the firestorm inside the arch is supposed to get up over 800ºF. You burn this type of oven for a period of time (determined by experimentation), then rake out the fire completely and put in your bread, close the door, and stuff the plug into the smoke pipe. They say a damper lets out too much heat; that's why you're supposed to use a plug.
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Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Yeah.......I'm designing one right now.........I love bread, but a good loaf of bread around here is impossible to find here in wonder bread country.........as soon as I feel a little better I'm gonna build one.........bread/pizza/rolls etc...can't wait.I have a lot of stone for the base.....blue clay in the creek.....all the materials are already on site.The web is full of info......
I'm thinking of building a pizza oven and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a good website or book.
Try these links:
http://www.traditionaloven.com/index.html
http://www.fornobravo.com/firenze_concept_oven/firenze_pizza_oven.html
http://www.fogazzo.com/html/building_a_wood_fired_oven.html
Bob
The whole earth catalog has been covering this for decades ( not nessacerily endorsing their methods).
Cob oven at Knoll Farm, Fayston VT
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Edited 2/5/2008 10:21 pm ET by Riversong
Edited 2/5/2008 10:25 pm ET by Riversong
I really don't wish to be naive, but I've never heard of an outdoor pizza oven until this post. I live in SW Wisconsin, and all of my current pizza has either been delivered or out of the frozen food section. Is this a new fad? I guess that I have too many other house problems for an outdoor pizza oven to ever rise to the top of my list. Of course, I'm also old, sixty last month, and I can remember when there was only one pizza parlor in my town.
well if it was just pizza it would be a reach for me also, but these ovens have been around since recorded history for baking bread etc.There is no better way on earth to make a really great loaf of bread (and a lot of other stuff) Pizza is just an aside.I've been thinking what to do in order to survive around here in the coming years.........and this oven is one way to guarantee a supply of good wholesome bread.......a good garden/a good oven and a wood burning stove and they can shove their 1.65 propane. I've only got four neighbors so we can all use it......bake bread, drink beer, eat pizza........sounds good to me.
bake bread, drink beer, eat pizza
Then I assume you're brewing your own beer, too?
A friend of mine years ago in western MA lived WAY off grid and was mostly self-sufficient.
He cut ice from the pond uphill from his hand-built stone and oak house, and sledded the chunks down to his backyard ice house which was shaded with hops vines that grew up the walls.
From the hops he brewed his own beer which was kept in the hand-dug root cellar, which was then cooled for drinking with the ice from the ice house that the hops kept cool.
I'd really love a wood-burning bread oven. I make bread at least once a week, and agree, there's nothing like that for truly great bread. But since a dedicated bread oven seems not to be on the horizon for this year, I make do with a Hearth Kit clay oven (http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/hearth_kitchen_hearthkit_sizes.asp). It takes about an hour to reach maximum heat, and does just a fine job for baking great pizzas and rustic-style breads. There is an even simpler method for simulating a clay oven - that is to heat a earthenware casserole (or even a cast-iron pan, so long as it has a lid) in a 450 oven for about an hour, plopping your bread dough in it, putting the lid back on, and letting the bread bake for about 40 minutes. If you're seriously interested, there's a 1,000 +/- thread on this method over at CT -- just do a search on "no-knead bread".
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
Bagles are only good if out of a wood oven!!!
http://www.stviateurbagel.com/index/page/how/?/session/9ab1038c91b9c57bc88d3c50abebab28
The bagels are then placed on two long, wooden boards that are slid into the wood-burning oven, which reaches temperatures exceeding 700 ºC. After about 4 minutes, the bagels are flipped onto the oven's brick floor. Because of the oven's heat fluctuations, the bagels must be skillfully shifted by using a long, narrow wooden board with beveled edges, called a "sheeba". Mastering a "sheeba" requires years of training. The bagels are baked for approximately 20 minutes before the baker artfully tosses them into a large wooden bin."No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
Just a heads-up -- Peter Reinhardt (The Bread Baker's Apprentice, etc., bread-making expert with Johnson and Wales University, and all-round bread guru) is doing the "Ask The Expert" thing at the Fine Cooking site for the next two weeks. You'll find the link under "My Forums".
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
I think Fine Cooking featured these guys a few issues back. I've only ever once tried making bagels - they were okay, but not bagelish enough, if you know what I mean. I'm hoping to get to Montreal sometime soon, and will definitely be checking these guys out for myself.
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
Nice looking oven . I have never had mine over 700.
It will hold heat for three days ,two in the dead of winter.
We have found that the best temp for whole wheat bread is 350. Our indoor gas oven has to be 450 .
So far we have just done bread and cookies in our oven. I also have a builtin grill next to the oven
I also have a builtin grill next to the oven(quote)This is what I am planning........the oven will be about 3' off the ground.....27" interior 40 or so ext. The grill will be a continuation of the base about 3' going left.I'm thinking of an arched fire pit beneath the grill.....so you have a base somewhere around 7' wide by around 3' deep. One side (left) has a fire pit, the other has an opening to stack wood.Does that make sense? Should it be deeper?
It makes sense to me . Just make sure that you provide horizontal surface to set things . Like bread, pies, steaks and beer . That is one thing I am short on.
"Nice looking oven . I have never had mine over 700."
Thanks. If your temp is measured by a thermocouple, that's the temp an inch or so above the surface of the dome, or below the surface of the floor. If your oven goes "white" (i.e., the soot burns off), your surface temps are in the 900° range or more.
I use a Fluke infrared pyrometer to take my temps. on the surfaces. The air temp of the oven is probably 100° lower than the surface temp.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
That is right I have only two gauges with probes to the center of the oven . One is set at an inch below the inner surface the other one inch below the outer surface . I used 6x9x3 refactory brick . The one thing I would want differant if I was to do it again would be to build it a bit larger. Mine is aprox 18"x27" with a 13" wide door
When would you need picked up at the airport???
Or are you driving up?"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
Thanks for the offer! LoML is a native Montrealer, and my big bro and his squeeze live there, so I think I have the transport bases all covered. &8;^)
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
You had better plan on getting up here while you're in town to make up for missing Northfest last summer. I've been saving a slice of pie and a bowl of soup for you for six months. And there's one rack of ribs left in the freezer with your name on it.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Yeah but she won't like the fish pie!!!!!!!"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
If you guys'll get yer butts up here to do a few runs some weekend, I'll make one for dessert.
Ryan will be home this weekend from 9am Sat to 5pm Sun. We're figuring Sunday at the Mountain if it doesn't piss rain again.
You??
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
All our equipment is in Sutton darn it!
Robert is in Smugglers crotch for his grad ski weekend.
Did I tell you that Robert has himself a P.O.S. car?
Get this...... A 1986 Renault alliance. Older than he is hehehehe!"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
Yeah, probably not (VBG!)
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
What kind of pie ? <G>
Actually, I'm kinda hoping we do a nostalgic tour of PQ in the fall -- LoML's cousin is in the Eastern Townships, I've never seen Quebec City, and my bro has to reintroduce me to Mtl. So there's a good chance that one or more of our ventures around la belle province will bring us within spittin' distance of you.
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
My parents are in Sutton.
OK if Cousin knows Sutton.... During the summer, go to the Saturday morning market in Sutton. Once there, look across the street at the big white house. That's it."No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
As noted in the run-up to Northfest, we're about 75 minutes north of Mtl...right off the main highway. Easy as Fish Pie to get here.
BTW the Fish Pie gag has its provenance with Jet & Co., and by common consent I'm not allowed to explain it except in person.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You're on the list! And you can explain the fish pie joke to me over a steaming bowl of poutine.
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
We'll go out to a patate down in the village for the poutine, then come home to eat the Fish Pie for dessert. I do real fries (to go with mussels), and I can get good cheese curds from a local organic dairy...but I don't keep the Berthelet powder for the poutine sauce in stock. And as you know, a good brown gravy made from real drippings etc. just doesn't cut it for poutine.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
So I'm in DDO on the west island. Were is big Bro???"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
big bro is right in the heart of downtown MTL. Don't have the address handy, but I'll get back to you on that.
"the meat was prime,/the produce sublime,/but nevertheless/the dinner was/a horrible mess."
Samchang, 2007
I am planning to build a wood fired oven in the spring as a birthday surprise for my wife. I'm just getting into the conceptual process, I have till August. So I am very interested in the types that would work in an urban (city) setting...have to be somewhat discreet. In the Food section of the San Francisco Chronicle of 10/10/07 there was an extensive section on wood oven types and resources. It may be helpful to you. You can access it at sfgate.com. in the archives. The lead writer was Olivia Wu. Looking forward to reading about everyones' ideas and experiences. Good luck!
P.S. Great pictures and designs by you previous posters!
Edited 2/6/2008 11:56 pm by sawduster
Someone pointed me at this guys website a while back:
http://slice.seriouseats.com/jvpizza/
Go get something to eat before you look at it!
I love the comment about "cliping off the lock with garden shears" so that he can cook in his oven using the heating cycle.
After you build your outdoor oven, Jeff's website will get you focused on how to use it to best advantage.
Post pictures!!
-t
Someone must be interested for this old post to pop up so I'll add my 2 cents. I have neither the time, inclination or need for a pizza oven. However, I love homemade pizza so we put a large pizza stone in our gas grill, turn all the burners up to high and in 15 minutes its at 750 degrees. We make rectangular pizza so it fits the stone but it cooks fast, It is very crispy and good.