Replies

1. 
   DanH | Jan 27, 2010 04:48pm | #1

   Knock it down below the roofline and patch the roof.

1. 
   zombies_kill | Jan 27, 2010 06:30pm | #2

   I don't get it. Are you being
   I don't get it. Are you being serious or did I just get leveled?

   Since I didn't say it clearly in the first post, I'm gonna rebuild the shotty bricks. I just don't know how to cap them off with a crown.

1. 
   DanH | Jan 27, 2010 06:43pm | #4

   My impression was that you wanted to "cap off" the chimney -- close it off, not cap it. Which is it?

1. 
   zombies_kill | Jan 28, 2010 11:01am | #11

   I meant cap off as in a "rain cap" or a crown.

2. 
   rjw | Jan 27, 2010 06:34pm | #3

   Are you planning to use it? To vent flue gases?

   Egads!

   Why worry about how to cap it when you might not live long enough to admire the workmanship?

   Slight exaggeration there, but using an unlined chimney flue is very dangerous and against all recommendations and codes and current practices.

3. 
   davidmeiland | Jan 27, 2010 07:27pm | #5

   Remarkable how quickly you can get a non answer here. This is an old-time wood fireplace with a brick chimney, and you wanna keep it that way, right? My old house had two of 'em and neither had much of a cap, just a metal spark arrestor that sat on top and kept water from falling directly down the hole. Some came down anyway as it leaked under the flange of the metal, the rest ran down the outside.

1. 
   rjw | Jan 28, 2010 12:05am | #7

   >>Remarkable how quickly you can get a non answer here.

   You need to have a clear question before you can expect an answer, doncha think?

4. 
   Brickie | Jan 27, 2010 09:31pm | #6

   I'll help you out
   I'll help you out here...

   What you do is set one flue liner at the top, sized so that the flue area is not reduced. Set it in mortar after you've done your partial rebuild. normally, you can get a new flue liner that is just slightly larger in outside dimensions that the inside (unlined) flue measurements so that it won't fall through, of course.

   For example, if you have a 20" x 24" chimney stack, it'll have an inside flue dimension of approximately 11-12" x 15-16". Find a flue that is slightly larger than that, set that on top, and form your concrete cap around that.

1. 
   rjw | Jan 28, 2010 12:10am | #8

   >>I'll help you out
   >>I'll help you out here...

   And you'd use something like that?

   Please be sure you have really good carbon monoxide detectors on each living level, in each combustion zone, and in or near the bedrooms.

   And don't forget your nightly (and morningly) prayers, too....

   It's been well over 1/2 a century since unlined chimneys were "allowed."

   I still see some, and everyone I've inspected has had visible losses of mortar viewing down from the top.

   Using an unlined chimney is very dangerous.

1. 
   zombies_kill | Jan 28, 2010 10:57am | #9

   You kill me man. Seriously. There are how many unlined chimneys functioning all throughout this country? Tens of thousands? Maybe more? What about the rest of the world. You speak as though tons of people are dying in their sleep because of their old chimneys. It's clearly not optimal, but even joking that I should be saying prayers over something like this is so utterly laughable.

   Are you one of the guys who write those "47 common household items that WILL KILL YOU TONIGHT" stories on the news? Or just a global warming activist?

   Honestly, I get a kick out of your posts.

1. 
   rjw | Jan 28, 2010 12:33pm | #12

   No, I'm just a guy who knows
   No, I'm just a guy who knows that bad stuff only happens to the other guy.

   But I also know that to the other guy, YOU are (or someone in your family is) 'the other guy.'

   >>You speak as though tons of people are dying in their sleep because of their old chimneys.

   Nope, maybe I wasn't clear. I speak as if the few folks who die in their sleep from carbon monoxide poisoning getting in thru gaps in unlined chimneys are actually dead,

   And I speak as if there is a chance it could be you or perhaps your wife or a child of yours.

   I speak as someone who has studied and tested combustion and carbon monoxide issues for years, and has tested homes with unlined flues where there were elevated levels of CO in the home (nope, not many, but in each case, the highest levels were in a second floor bedroom closets to the chimney)

   Feel free to take whatever risks you want for yourself.

   But please don't try to convince people that your statistical analysis means that no one will be hurt or killed by taking the same risks you do.

   BTW: even if CO exposure doesn't kill you, long term low level or short term high level exposure can cause disabling brain damage.

   Because of my work, I have met and dealt with such people.

   It is really ugly - especially when the brqain damage leaves them aware of how damaged their brains are.

   This is a real danger.

   >>Honestly, I get a kick out of your posts.

   That says a lot more about you than about me.

   I just hope someone isn't hurt or killed because they they think you have a firm grasp of statistics and it's role in the world.

2. 
   rjw | Jan 28, 2010 12:38pm | #13

   By the way, standard risk analysis basically looks at 2 factors: what is the likelihood of the risk occuring and what is the cost if the risk occurs.

   It is very true that the likelihood of anyone one person being injured or killed by CO where there is an unlined chimney is low.

   But it is also true that the cost if that event occurs is serious injury or death.

   So go ahead and decide whether you want to take that risk.

   May I suggest that you just don't stop the analysis (or encourage others to stop) after considering only one of the two key factors.

   And may I plead that you don't encourag others to stop at that point.

   >> You kill me man. Seriously.

   Just remember: your decision might actually kill someone. Not likely, but dead is ugly.

2. 
   zombies_kill | Jan 28, 2010 11:00am | #10

   Yeah this is basically what I had in mind. I'll probably flare out the top few courses to make a little shelf for the flue tile. I'll have a better idea of specifics once I'm actually up there looking at it.

5. 
   rjw | Jan 28, 2010 12:41pm | #14

   >>the chimney is actually in good shape except for the very top.

   I'm curious as to how you know that.

   Have you had it checked with a video system?

   Since you've only been here 3 weeks, and are offering your opinions on such subjects as carbon monoxide risks, perhaps you could tell us a bit about yourself. Like where you knowledge and skills come from.

1. 
   zombies_kill | Jan 28, 2010 01:16pm | #15

   "Since you've only been here
   "Since you've only been here 3 weeks, and are offering your opinions on such subjects as carbon monoxide risks, perhaps you could tell us a bit about yourself. Like where you knowledge and skills come from."

   Clearly since I've only been registered on these forums for 3 weeks, I know nothing. I have only been interested in and done home repair/remodeling/rebuilding for exactly 3 weeks. There is zero chance that I've been in construction for years. Zero chance that I have been working for myself since I was 20, flipping houses. Zero chance I also do remodeling work for others. Zero chance I read heavily, watch videos, talk to other experts, blahblah. Life and experience begin and end with these forums. Duh.

   And am I not allowed to speak my mind in my own post? I was offering advice or expertise to no one. And my apparently super offensive opinion? That you were hugely exaggerating the risk. That's all. You were being way overly dramatic. Like an overly aggressive asbestos abatement pitch-man. Your comments are certainly based in truth, they're just exagerrated.

   I stated that the unlined chimney is definitely not optimally safe. I would never build one like that myself in this day and age. But all I want to do is put it back how it has been for the last 160 years. If upon further inspection I find it to be unecessarily unsafe, I will be forced to install a liner. Otherwise, it is at least "safe enough" then I will save myself $2000 or whatever and keep it as is.

   So yeah, I'll take the risk. Like I will with the paint I will put on the walls with the VOCs in it. Like I will with the sheetrock I'm going to put up that might corrode my wires (This Chinese thing has happened with some American sheetrock). Like I will when I remove old plaster with lead paint on it (and also leave a lot of it, and take off some of the asbestos siding. Like I will when I re-roof the place with no safety harness. I guess I'm just a wild and crazy daredevil.

   And a side note. Why all the hating on carbon monoxide? Personally, I love the stuff. I try to leave a little bag of it on my nightstand so in the morning I can get a little whiff right when I wake up. Sometimes I'll carry a little syringe of it around with me to inject my food with it, cause hey, why not. It always gets a bad rap, I don't get it. My wife loves the stuff too. She talked me into installing a system in our shower, so instead of water coming out of the showerhead, it's carbon monoxide. We just marinate in it every night. Don't write it off so quick, you might actually like it.

1. 
   Billy | Jan 28, 2010 08:37pm | #16

   If this represents the new Breaktime, Taunton, it's all yours...

   Billy

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Jan 28, 2010 09:33pm | #17

   It is all this, and more. Less, I should say.

   Little of interest, little participation, format and navigation stinks, over at the Tavern there are trolls talking with themselves, and in threads like this, the righteous feel free to bash as if they are trial lawyers.

   I'm out of here, too.

2. 
   rjw | Jan 29, 2010 12:22pm | #20

   Me: >>>>"Since you've only
   Me: >>>>"Since you've only been here 3 weeks, and are offering your opinions on such subjects as carbon monoxide risks, perhaps you could tell us a bit about yourself. Like where you knowledge and skills come from."

   You >>Clearly since I've only been registered on these forums for 3 weeks, I know nothing.

   Your idea of what is "clear" is pretty interesting.

   You see I referenced the short period of time that you've been here becasue in such a short period of time, no one here had the opportunity to assess what your degree of knowledge is.

   That's why I asked you to tell you a bit about yourself.

   But I guess you didn't get to that part of that paragraph, or perhaps you weren't able to consider whether that question bore any relationship to my reference to the length of time you've been here.

   On the other hand, in this short period of time we have gotten a pretty good idea of how your mind works and how you process information.

3. 
   rjw | Jan 29, 2010 12:38pm | #21

   >>And am I not allowed to speak my mind in my own post? I was offering advice or expertise to no one. And my apparently super offensive opinion? That you were hugely exaggerating the risk. That's all. You were being way overly dramatic. Like an overly aggressive asbestos abatement pitch-man. Your comments are certainly based in truth, they're just exagerrated.

   Of course you are allowed to speak your own mind.

   But it seems that you've gotten pretty worked up about my speaking my mind, and about my explaining the basis for my views

   You see, these posts will now be in the web for a good many years or perhaps decades.

   Many people are likely to read them at some point.

   You have given what I consider to be an incomplete analysis and thus dangerously inaccurate opinion about carbon monoxide and its risks and of how to assess those risks.

   I'm sorry the additional information I have added has made you so upset.

   A significant part of my profession involves dealing with CO and its effects.

   And another part of my current and past professions involve the processes of risk analysis

   I still await an answer to my question as to what your qualifications in matters like these are.

1. 
   zombies_kill | Jan 29, 2010 05:20pm | #22

   Just 3 things-
   1. I'm 11
   Just 3 things-

   1. I'm 11 years old and I have no experience in anything. You win. Congratulations.

   2. You should stop subtley talking down to people in your posts.

   3. You're annoying a bunch of people. Drop it.

1. 
   rjw | Jan 29, 2010 07:18pm | #23

   I'm still interested in your
   I'm still interested in your experience and source of expertize underling your analysis and opinion.

6. 
   Pelipeth | Jan 29, 2010 05:33am | #18

   I capped off an unused chimney with a piece of slate siliconed to the top. Works for me.

7. 
   Billy | Jan 29, 2010 11:22am | #19

   All good points, and in nearly two months they have hardly fixed any of the problems with the forum. I don't doubt that some people are working hard, but as many pointed out at the beginning of this conversion, if you start out with a crappy foundation you can't build much more than a sh!thouse.

   Billy