Replies

1. 
   MarkH | May 21, 2014 07:47am | #1

   I would use a grinder mounted to a jig to maintain a constant height.  Cut a shallow groove in the brick at the height of the floor.  Rabbet the trim so that it fits into the groove in the brick.  I think it will be very dusty though, unless you have a spray of water going, which will be pretty messy too.  Any areas you are unable to groove will need to have the trim coped.

1. 
   Mike_Mahan | May 21, 2014 09:55am | #2

   Multi tool

   Rather than a grinder, consider a multi-tool with a diamond blade. It would be a little slower but produce much less dust. The dust could probably be managed with a shop vac during the cutting. Chances are that the brick sits on a bed of mortar that may be higher than the flooring. This could come out fairly easily.

1. 
   jimmiem | May 21, 2014 11:02am | #3

   Brick Cutting

   I hope that I am pleasantly surprised when I pull the carpet and find a fairly thick mortar bed.  I've got a couple of multi tools.  Have you ever cut brick this way? Do the diamond blades last a while?...the hearth is about 7 feet long and about 15 inches wide. 

1. 
   Hokuto | Jun 18, 2014 08:14am | #28

   Sorry, but . . .

   　I've never used a multitool in that way, and my guess (based on other material experiences) is that the multitool + diamond blade (where do they sell such things?) would be much slower going than the angle grinder. Unfortunately, the few multitool clone vendors here in Japan don't provide the wide range of blades available in the US.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jun 18, 2014 09:06am | #31

   Multi Tool

   I use Bosch multi tool blades....as well as their jig saw blades.  Bosch blades usually rank near the top in magazine test results.  I bought a cheapo diamond multi tool blade from Harbor Freight just to try it out on the brick.  It was really slow.  I tried it on the concrete too.  It did cut the concrete but again a really slow process.  The Bosch diamond blade cost 3X as much as the cheap one but I'm wondering if it would work much better for this process.  You would probably have to buy these on-line if you don't have brick and mortar stores that carry them.  The only problem with on-line shopping is that the shipping cost can add signicantly to the cost of a small purchase.   I'm going to use the angle grinder for this job.  Also, the angle grinder cutting guard was only available on-line.  I check a couple of on-line sites and the shipping cost was the same amount as the cost of the guard.   

2. 
   jimmiem | Jun 12, 2014 08:31am | #16

   cut brick with multi tool

   Have you done this with a multi tool?  I've got to cut in 1/4" to 1/2" in about 7 feet of brick.  Best guess as to how long this might take?  Time is not a major factor. I have a good multi tool.  If this would be very time consuming I would bite the bullet and pay the $ to get a good angle grinder and dust shroud. The diamond blade for the multi tool is more expensive than a diamond blade for an angle grinder.

2. 
   Perry525 | May 21, 2014 12:46pm | #4

   Not cutting brick, cutting/drilling mortar.

   The best way to cut brick, is to use a diamond tipped angle grinder - but this will make a terrible mess, the whole room will be full of dust.

1. 
   jimmiem | May 21, 2014 01:15pm | #5

   Brick Cutting

   Maybe I can drape a large plastic drop cloth from the top of the fireplace mantle, tape it off and climb under it to do the cutting.  I watched my neighbor cut bricks for a walkway and he disappeared in a cloud of dust.

   Thank you for your response.  

1. 
   AndyEngel | May 21, 2014 01:50pm | #6

   This is going to get ugly.

   I predict a lot of dust. Question: What is the floor structure? Floors framed with standard dimensional lumber (2x10s i.e.) can move up and down with seasonal changes in humidity. Hearths stay put. You may need to over or under cut the brick to allow for this movment. You've said you have good humidity control, so maybe it's less of a concern for you. I'd also not worry if the floor is framed with I-joists or trusses.

   Personally, I'd just scribe the floor to the brick.

1. 
   jimmiem | May 21, 2014 02:46pm | #7

   Brick Cutting

   Floor joists are 2 X 10's.  I may wind up framing the hearth and making a modified transition to cover the expansion gap. I'll see what I have to work with once I pull the carpeting up. I've had to make transition/reducers for 5 other places in the house where the hardwood abutted slate, sheet vinyl, and marble so what's 1 more.  

2. 
   Hokuto | Jun 17, 2014 10:32pm | #25

   Re: "ugly"

   AndyEngel wrote:

   This is going to get ugly. I predict a lot of dust.

   Ditto. I did something similar in 2010 when I installed oak flooring (ordinary Bruce 3-1/4" tongue/groove) in the living room, in place of the carpet we had previously installed. Our fireplace and hearth area are composed of faux flintstone installed directly on the subflooring (3/4" ply). It had been easy for the carpet layers to cut the carpet so it would run right up to the irregular edge of the flintstone, but flooring is another story. I was installing the flooring  oriented perpendicular to the hearth; I suppose the ideal solution would have been to cope the end of each plank to match the contour of the stone in that place, but that simply would have required more time than I had available.

   My "solution" was to install a single piece of flooring as a border, parallel to the hearth (perpendicular to the main flooring). I installed the border piece along an imaginary "halfway" point between the depressions and protrusions of the stone. I used an angle grinder to undercut the stone where it protruded positively past the halfway line, and filled in the negative depressions using foam backer rod and black silicon caulking (using black grouting would have probably been better).

   I then installed the main flooring to run up evenly against the border piece.

   Not the best solution, but a little dust from the grinder goes a long ways, a fact I had discovered 16 years earlier when we moved into the house; I had to do major surgery on the fireplace surround to allow the fireplace's glass doors to be installed (the stone/tile installer didn't get the word about doors and installed the stone too close up to the fireplace opening). I could have installed the doors, but they wouldn't have been able to open, since their path was blocked by the stone.

3. 
   deadnuts | May 21, 2014 07:11pm | #8

   add a shop vac to that cutting operation

   Most mortar joints for modular brick work average 3/8". The chances are slim that you would have a mortar joint twice that dimension for standard hardwood flooring. If you choose to cut the brick, then I think you'll  find a 4.5" angle grinder with a segmented diamand blade (as others suggest) a rather easy and productive too to usel.  A multi-tool would take forever.

   Isolating the area with plastic tenting is a good idea as you suggest, but I would add the use of a cheap shop vac to suck up the majority of the dust as you''d be creating.  If you have a helper,  have them run a brushed shop vac nozzle alongside your cut (very close to discharge side of blade) and you'll probably catch 75% of it. Works for us. But remember to check the filter frequently; it clogs up quickly using it for this type of application.

1. 
   jimmiem | May 21, 2014 07:48pm | #9

   Brick Cutting

   I'm looking at the visible mortar joints and they're as you said.  Wishful thinking for a 3/4" joint.  I'll just have to wait and see what's there when I pull the carpet.  Asolutely on the shop vac.  I don't think there'll be any volunteers to help....maybe I can tape or bungee the vac nozzle to the grinder. 

1. 
   deadnuts | May 21, 2014 09:20pm | #11

   A helping hand is safer, but you can do it solo.

   I've never tried attaching a hose to the grinder. Seems like it would be a cumbersome set up because you usually have move the vac nozzle around a bit to maximize catching the dust. If you find a good set up for this, let us know.

   BTW, while a  helping hand is safer, you can make the cut and hold the vac nozzle while working solo. Since you are cutting horizontal you can let the tip of the arbor shaft ride on the subfloor as you're making your cut one handed.  It may sound dicy, but if you let the grinder cut on a "climb" by pulling the tool toward you rather than pushing it away from you into the cut, it's very stable (particularly with this small grinder) riding lightly on the subfloor. If you need to pad the tip of the arbor up to get your 3/4" or so relief cut,  then cut whatever thickness of  thin masonite or plywood you need to get you there. Not only can the floor assist in stabilty for the grinder, but you're eachieving your uniform scribe height at the same time.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jun 05, 2014 08:11am | #12

   Undercutting Brick Hearth

   Would a jamb saw with a diamond blade be a better option than an angle grinder?  I saw a youtube video that shows this being done with the jamb saw.

1. 
   deadnuts | Jun 09, 2014 10:04pm | #13

   Sure. It would be if you believe a more expensive option is a better one.

2. 
   jimmiem | Jun 10, 2014 07:14pm | #14

   Undercut Brick

   The only tool I can locate for a rental is a Roberts Long Neck Undercut jamb saw (Home Depot).  I don't know if there is a diamond blade that will fit it so I may just go with an angle grinder as you have suggested. 

3. 
   jimmiem | Jun 11, 2014 05:56pm | #15

   Angle Grinder

   Can you recommend a good angle grinder?  I've read some reviews but other than getting a 4 1/2" grinder I don't know how powerful a motor to get. I realize you get what you pay for but I can't envision using this tool much after this job.

2. 
   jimmiem | Jun 17, 2014 09:03am | #17

   Brick Undercutting

   I bought a Bosch 4 1/2" angle grinder.  I knew nothing about angle grinder blades, wheels, guards, etc except for the info you have provided.  I read the owner's manual and then I still had questions about Types, e.g. 1A, 11, 27, etc.  I just wanted to understand who assigns these numbers....I called Bosch but they could only read from their product manuals.  Bottom line is my application calls for a Type 1A cutting wheel and a Type 1A wheel guard.  The tool comes with a Type 27 guard.  I had to special order a Type 1A guard which a lot of the sites had on back order with a lead time of several weeks.  Your indicated that I could rest the arbor on the subfloor .....does that mean you don't have a guard on the tool?  Also, would a continuous rim blade rather than a segmented blade produce a cleaner cut on the brick with less chance of chipping?

   I'm probably overthinking and beating this thing to death but I do appreciate the info and advice you have provided.  Thank You.

   P.S. With everybody telling me how dangerous tool this is I figured I'd rather have a brand name (Bosch) in hand rather than a HF. 

1. 
   deadnuts | Jun 17, 2014 05:34pm | #18

   I have a Hilti DAG 450-S. Love it. Mine came with a guard....but I can't find where I put it.

   I use a segmented diamond blade to cut brick just fine. They sell them all day long at Home Depot and Lowes. I usually look at the max  RPM rating on the blade and make sure my grinder's no load speed doesn't surpass that.

   Any tool can be dangerous if not used with the proper skill, respect, and confidence level. I recommend that you excell at all three attributes when using your tools...or hire someone that does.

2. 
   jimmiem | Jun 17, 2014 07:21pm | #19

   You must have put the guard someplace for safe keeping....so it won't get dinged up.  I remember Hilti had their own section and company reps in the Home Depot stores but I don't recall seeing them recently.  Nice high end tools. 

3. 
   calvin | Jun 17, 2014 08:29pm | #20

   Jim

   The guard should stay on.

   the arbor or arbor nut will run on the floor or the "plate" you use on the floor to raise the cut line.

   you'll be cutting in one direction only ( much like a router is directional ) .

   segmented blade (come in varying thicknesses.  Diff thickness for diff kerf (think grinding out a mortar joint.

4. 
   jimmiem | Jun 17, 2014 09:17pm | #22

   Angler Grinder

   I have ordered the Type 1A guard....have some other prep work to do on the project while I'm waiting.  Can you recommend some good diamond wheel brands?  I like Bosch's jig saw and oscillating multi tool blades but I've only seen their angle grinder blades from on-line souces....didn't see them in HD or Lowes stores.    

5. 
   calvin | Jun 17, 2014 10:43pm | #26

   Jim

   JIMMIEM wrote:

   I have ordered the Type 1A guard....have some other prep work to do on the project while I'm waiting.  Can you recommend some good diamond wheel brands?  I like Bosch's jig saw and oscillating multi tool blades but I've only seen their angle grinder blades from on-line souces....didn't see them in HD or Lowes stores.    

   i'll try to remember to look in the a.m.

6. 
   jimmiem | Jun 19, 2014 07:26am | #39

   Angle Grinder and Accessory Arbor Size

   The Bosch grinder I bought has a 5/8"- 11 spindle thread which I assume refers to the thread size for screw on accessories.  The grinding disc that came with the tool has a 7/8" arbor (not threaded).  The diamond blade that I bought separately has a brass arbor insert that makes the arbor 5/8".  If the brass insert is removed the blade arbor becomes 7/8".  There is also a very thin brass insert included.  Am I correct in assuming that I should knock out the brass insert so that the blade has a 7/8" arbor when it is installed on the grinder?   

7. 
   Mike_Mahan | Jun 19, 2014 10:29am | #40

   The back of the nut that holds the blade on has a raised area that fits the hole in the blade. That should be the size KO that you want.

8. 
   jimmiem | Jun 19, 2014 01:17pm | #41

   Angler Grinder

   Thanks Mike.

9. 
   calvin | Jun 18, 2014 08:38am | #29

   Jim

   Pearl Abrasive is my tuck pointing wheel.  The thinner has the labeling worn off.  These are both segmented and meant for dry cutting.  

   I cut the bottom off a half gallon milk carton for the dust catcher.  Tape the vac nozzle to the spout.  You can guide the sucker towards the stream of dust.  Catches quite a bit of it.  By no means dust free.

10. 
    jimmiem | Jun 18, 2014 08:47am | #30

    Calvin

    Thank You for the info.  I will do the milk carton dust collector.  If I can capture the bulk of the dust I'll be happy.  I'll use plastic drop cloths to cover the rest of the area.  My wife keeps asking why the hardwood is not being installed....hope the guard gets here soon.  

11. 
    oldhand | Jun 18, 2014 10:38am | #32

    seems like..

    a few years back there was an article showing a set up for catching grinder dust while cutting broken tiles out or some such. My memorey is of some site made contraption possibly a 5 gallon bucket hooked to a vac. The operators hands and grinder were inside the contraption. Can't recall how you could see the work but as I recall it looked workable. I think it was in FHB but it could have been JLC. Some help, huh?

12. 
    jimmiem | Jun 18, 2014 11:46am | #34

    Maybe Not Such A Bad Idea

    Actually that is not such a bad idea and I have experience along those lines.  I had worked in a hospital lab and on occasion had to draw blood from babies in incubators.  There were holes for your hands to reach inside and the incubator was clear plastic....maybe I could borrow one....without the baby of course.  I've seen some suggestions on using a plastic milk jug container with a vacuumn attached......Calvin was one of the ones who suggested it....just need an assistant to man the vacuumn and follow along the cut route.  They say it's not 100% but gets most of the dust.  I'm even thinking of a rectangular clear plastic container that would have holes to allow the body and side handle of the grinder to stick out and a hole for a vacuumn then no assistant would be needed.....the poor man's dust collector.   

13. 
    jimmiem | Jun 25, 2014 03:39pm | #42

    Under Cut Brick

    I did the cutting today.  Did the plastic container attached to a vac with a fine dust filter.  As you predicted it caught a lot of the dust, but not all.  I put plastic drop cloths over the furniture...good thing I did.  And my wife just came home and no complaints about the dust.  If I had to do it again I would invest in a tuck pointing dust collector attachment for the grinder.  Tool work just fine and the segmented diamond blade cut the brick with ease.  Thanks again for the advice and tips.

    P.S. I can understand why people prefer other options when installing hardwood flooring around fireplace hearths.

14. 
    calvin | Jun 25, 2014 09:02pm | #43

    Jim

    Ain't no walk in the park, is it?

    now, you plan on going to the Fest?

15. 
    jimmiem | Jun 26, 2014 07:02am | #45

    Calvin

    The cutting process was easier than I anticipated.  The dust was dustier than i anticipated.  I didn't have a helper to hold the dust chute and in I hindsite I would have bitten the bullet and bought the commercial dust attachment ( cost more than the grinder and diamond blade).

    The fest is on my calendar.  When do you start your drive East?

16. 
    calvin | Jun 26, 2014 08:52am | #47

    Jim

    We'll be leaving Ohio the 5th or 6th, get to Wompotak State Park Thursday sometime.

    How'd the dust get outta that containment tub?  My cheap ass 'd half gallon modified milk jug chute sucker used within a plastic "room" didn't spread any around.  I was wondering how you'd see into that tub............

    It wasn't like the word dust didn't appear in almost all these posts, no?

    Your wife must be a saint.  Do we get to meet this fine woman?

17. 
    jimmiem | Jun 26, 2014 02:05pm | #49

    Calvin

    It was like this.  With the blade flat on the floor the blade was 1" above the floor.  My cut Line was 3/4" above the floor....the thickness of the hardwood flooring.  I had to hold the grinder on a tilt.  So I had one eye on the blade and one eye on the dust collector. When I used both eyes to check that the blade was on the cut line the dust took the opportunity to escape.  Also, the concrete pad under the brick pad extended out 3 1/2" from the face of the concrete and was not 100% level which required both eyes on the blade at lot of the time.....more time for the dust to escape.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    As far as my wife...she has spent 7 days a week from 8 AM to 4 PM with her mother (hospital, rehab, assisted living, at her house) since her mother fell down a flight of stairs Dec 20, 2011.  My wife has only missed 1 day since then.  The only possible time for a meeting would be in the evening. So, if there are evening activities you might see her.  Or, if you and your Mrs would like we can arrange for a meet and greet.

18. 
    calvin | Jun 26, 2014 02:45pm | #51

    Jim

    peruse the previous Fest threads in the Fest Folder at BT.   There's usually some activity or another from dawn till dusk and beyond.  If you're close to the site-should be no problem for us to meet with the both of you. 

    And, Friday morning is the annual hack and whack at a local golf course.   A usual group of anxious to play, not so effortlessly and certainly not too damn good.............victims of the game meet up for 18.  It is usually a blast as Mike Smith-a great contractor from R.I.-figures a way to lose a couple bucks.  A good time if you partake in the game.   Matter of fact-if you do play, you could help organize the event-one /two tee times and some guidance on where to attempt to place the ball.

    We're staying at the state park Wompatek (or something close to that) so if all else fails maybe a visit there.

    Usually as I say, there's plenty of socializing between friends and strangers alike at the Fest site.  People just move along like at an AA meeting-Hi, I'm so and so and I have a problem.....................

    Make a point of it-visit the Fest site online and sign up so the hosts know how much to plan.

19. 
    Hokuto | Jun 25, 2014 09:16pm | #44

    Congratulations

    I'm glad the contraption caught most of the dust; but be forewarned, you'll probably encounter unexpected brick dust in strange places 30 feet away from the hearth for the next several months.

20. 
    jimmiem | Jun 26, 2014 07:18am | #46

    Hokuto,

    You are aftwarning me about the distance the dust would travel.  If I had known that 30 feet was a possibility I would have gotten the commercial dust collection attachment or put up a Zip Wall or waited for a helper.  Well, it's done and the brick dust is a nice shade of red....vacuumn and swiffer.

21. 
    Hokuto | Jun 26, 2014 08:54am | #48

    LOL

    Yes, I confess I might have been a bit hyperbolic, but my remark was based on my own experience--except, without the vacuum cleaner. When we moved into our new house, the fireplace glass doors wouldn't fit, so I had to cut away and repair quite a bit of faux stone, and I did most of it with an angle grinder. Luckily our LR carpets hadn't been laid yet, otherwise they would have been full of cement dust. For quite a time afterwards, my wife complained about dust in the kitchen, which was roughly 30 feet distant from the fireplace. I assume your situation will actually be much better,since you had less to cut, and you took the time to design and attach a dust collector.

22. 
    jimmiem | Jun 26, 2014 02:12pm | #50

    Hokuto

    Cement dust indoors without a vacuumn?  You are a brave man.  Actually I prefer brick dust to cement dust....nicer color, finer texture, not as gritty.

    It travelled 20 feet  so my design wasn't great for a one person operation. 

23. 
    deadnuts | Jun 17, 2014 09:08pm | #21

    "You must have put the guard someplace for safe keeping....so it won't get dinged up."-JImmieM

    Yep. Exxxaaaact-ly.

24. 
    jimmiem | Jun 17, 2014 09:41pm | #23

    Blade Guard

    I'll bet it's on a shelf......right beside your table saw blade guard.

25. 
    deadnuts | Jun 18, 2014 11:34pm | #38

    where Festools come from

    JIMMIEM wrote:

    I'll bet it's on a shelf......right beside your table saw blade guard.

    Bingo. It's the same darkened shelf where I have dust "germinatiing" . Someone told me that was the best way to  grow Festools.

3. 
   Hokuto | Jun 17, 2014 09:47pm | #24

   I've never seen a grinder with a vac hose attachment. Seems to me it woud have to be one hell of a strong sucking vacuum to catch the powdery brick dust thrown out at over 10,000 rpm.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jun 18, 2014 06:20am | #27

   Grinder Vac Attachment

   I found an on-line site that had a guard with a vacuumn port.  It was $129 and is a tuck point attachment.  I can't remember the site now but they sold commercial grade equipment....not DIYer type stuff.  I didn't notice what type of vacuumn was used.  

2. 
   Hokuto | Jun 18, 2014 10:38am | #33

   Maybe you should be our sacrificial goat and find out, up close and personal, just how much dust is actually thrown out.

     When I did my residing job back in 2010-11, I did very little cutting with jigsaw or tablesaw, so we kept the environment pretty welll purified of CF dust. The young carpenter we hired at the end stages used a Makita circ saw with integrated dust collection, and it certainly seemed to catch a majority of the dust that was germinated in that assigned area.

      I still think the best response is to borrow nipper shears to cut board ends at points where the dyiffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffnto asian sutpi orl

3. 
   jimmiem | Jun 18, 2014 11:57am | #35

   I Will

   I will record the procedure and post the video for you to see.  I have seen YouTube videos of this and will add mine to the collection.

4. 
   calvin | Jun 18, 2014 04:08pm | #36

   jim

   What oldhand is talking about-  clear plastic storage tote-with the mother of all sucking vacs cut into and fastened in the off shoot area of the grinder..........holes for your arms-you could tape cut off long rubber gloves (fingers removed) to stick your arms through.

   Never tried it-but if you can see-you can cut.

5. 
   jimmiem | Jun 18, 2014 07:21pm | #37

   Calvin

   Lots of storage containers around the house. I'll see what I can cobble together. Thank You

4. 
   DanH | May 21, 2014 08:30pm | #10

   Consider renting a masonry table saw, or simply paying a mason to make the cuts for you.

   [Oops!!  DIdn't read closely enough.  If the brick is already in place you need a different strategy.  (I'd kind of favor a nice piece of trim, vs notching the brick.)]