I need to trim back the eaves on my roof. I was planning on using a cutting guide and a carbide-tipped blade on my circular saw to simultaneously cut thru the shingles and sheathing. Does that sound reasonable?
If not, how is it done? Do you slice thru the shingles with a sharp blade and remove them first, then saw thru the sheating?
What would you do?
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Replies
I remember you now!
Almost even anticipated this Q, LOL
Yes cut the shingles first, then the wood, unless you have goggles and a NFG saw and blade and like to see smoke.
Use a utility knife with a hook blade.
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What he wants in one of those armor-plated chainsaws that fire departments use!http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/images/partnersaw_2007/partner08_package.jpgMike: Why are you cutting off the eaves?
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
No, I definitely do NOT want one of those.
I am not cutting them completely off. I am just trimming them from their current length of 24" back to 6". This will provide greater access to install the flashing and roofing materials on the new roof.
I think I will start with the hook-bladed knife and a guide.
I do still need to saw through the ship lap sheathing, so the saw will get used.
P.S. - Would an abrasive cut-off wheel or a diamond blade mounted in a circular saw be any better? Grinding through gravel-laden asphalt sounds like a mess.
P.P.S. - Thanks for all the help, guys.
Edited 10/21/2009 5:26 pm ET by Mike_Mills
You're right - it is a mess. The best method is also the slow methid ... cut the shingle with a knife, then saw the wood.
There's nothing worse for a cutting tool that roof shingles. You have both rock to beat up the cutting edge, and asphalt to really much up the works.
Cut the whole thing at once. I keep my old blades specifically for that purpose. Wear glasses, you will need them!
Cut the whole thing at once. I keep my old blades specifically for that purpose.
Same way here, but I also keep an old beater of a skilsaw specifically for stuff like this. ~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
I wouldn't use any circ saw to cut asphalt shingles that I wasn't already thinking of throwing away.I did it one time and one time only. The asphalt gums up the works, gets into t he spring on the guard so it does not return for safety, and the ceramic chips wear on all the parts it gets into, not just your eyes
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"I wouldn't use any circ saw to cut asphalt shingles that I wasn't already thinking of throwing away."I had one (Skil 77) that's cut more than a few roofs into pieces. Also used to cut rake shingles off with it (run 'em long and cut off with the saw). Never had a problem with it gumming up. Hardi dust and rain killed it. Now we have the Bosch version that also has cut up a few roofs, shingles and all. No trouble with that one either. Now mind you, I wouldn't take a Festool up there.
I wouldn't use any circ saw to cut asphalt shingles that I wasn't already thinking of throwing away.
If I was thinking of throwing a saw away, it would already be in the dumpster. My dedicated beater (old skil wormdrive before I got my makita) has been cutting through some of the meanest stuff I run into, including masonry. What you say about flooding with WD-40 cleans it right up and it's ready for the next abuse. I wouldn't use it for anything else, since the plate (foot?) is warped and the blade wobbles from the bearings being so worn, but it's just keeps on cutting through the tough stuff. I wouldn't call it disposable, just a bit more scruffy than my other saws. ~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Glasses help but you always end up with a face full of black stuff. You can feel it hitting had enough to embed itself. It is the devil to get off!
Nevertheless that is the only way to go. Using a knife to remove the shingles first simply is not manly. Do that and you might as well use a knife and fork to eat your hamburger.
Yeah, but while you're cutting through the shingles with that saw, don't forget to keep your pinkie finger raised!
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Take the shingles off 1st. Start above where the top of your new roof will land far enough to lap the porch roof material the desired height under the shingles. Once you carefully loosen and remove one course, the nails will be exposed on the rest of the shingles where you can easily remove them. You will need to keep some of these to shingle back down over the porch roof material after you install it. Or you could go buy new ones that don't match very well.
I'd probably use a sawzall as well to cut the sheathing.copper p0rn
How come no one's suggested using a MultiMaster?
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Grant ,
Did you notice that of all the replies that only you and I suggested removing the shingles carefully , not just cutting them off ?
Must be the roofer in us .
Walter
Must be the slate roofer in you.
;)My time is worth more than a few asphalt shingles that he does not need for anything.
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Look at Grant's reply to me .
Not just a question of saving shingles but prepping for the next roof tie in too.
I know that. Had missed that this is board sheathed instead of plywood, but I also had in mind that this guy has a lot of internal confusion about what he is doing and why from the other thread. He has a lot of concerns and mental blocks already about cutting into this roof, so I did not want to confuse him with trying to advise him on that issue. It was hard enough to convince him to go this way as it is.Were it me doing this, I might thief them out from the start, or might cut now and thief later after doing my framing
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"Not just a question of saving shingles but prepping for the next roof tie in too."
-- theslateman --
There is no "next roof tie in". The shed roof I will be installing ends at the exterior wall of the house and is not tied into the existing roof.
P.S. - Thanks for all the advice and options, guys. I appreciate that.
P.P.S - As for the "confused" and "mental blocks" and comments like that, to me, they sound like a personal attack. I don't appreciate that, so keep them to yourself.
I've come here to explore multiple designs ideas, get materials options and discuss different methods of work. Please do not mistake that research as confusion.
Yes, I was (notice the past tense) unwilling to cut into the existing roof in any way. I now agree it is necessary to trim the eaves and have made the commitment to do so. At this point, I am unwilling to tie into the existing roof. I discussed this with the wife and we have made the commitment that if what I am doing does not work, if it leaks, then I will rebuild the roof and tie into the roof of the house. I have the luxury of this incremental approach.
Thanks to you guys, my carpentry work on this project has gone very well and I am considerably ahead of my planned schedule. That there are bumps in the road, changes of plans and things I need to learn and re-learn along the way is all part of the project.
Thanks again, for your insights and help along the way. I really do appreciate it.
Edited 10/22/2009 1:38 pm ET by Mike_Mills
And the existing house roof doesn't need to be terminated properly ?
Such as,...?
The rafter tails are being shortened from 24" to 6". The shingles and three pieces of ship lap sheathing will be removed to form the shortened eave. The cross cuts will be made along the outboard edge of a rafter tail. Drip edging, fascia boards and rain gutters will be installed to follow the roof edge from the existing line up to the new line and back down.
Edited 10/22/2009 4:32 pm ET by Mike_Mills
You appear to have the answers then .
Whew! I surely do hope so.
This is a learning experience for me, so if I am missing something, please feel free to point that out. I can easily add to the plan now. Once I've built it, it's a lot harder.
This weekend, I hope to trim the eaves and add the new fascisa boards. If it goes really well, I may be able to install the rafters for the new roof, too. I have no expectations of getting the new sheathing up. Getting that sheathing up is a MAJOR milestone in my mind.
The weather man is predicting 90 degrees and sunny. IMO, that's perfectly miserable weather for working on the roof. Oh well, I'll do what I can do one step at a time.
Thanks again.
You will want to do the new roof and flashing first, then finish the fascia and trimming out the upper roof
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Of course, you are correct, thanks.
Now if I can just get my wife to talk like that
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mike.... the sheathing extends past the framing ( sub fascia & fascia )...
my first cut will be a plunge cut at each rafter...about 3" up the roof from the proposed roof edge.... that will be a plumb cut...
then go under the eave and finish the plumb cut with a sawzallMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Regardless of what you want to call it, you will be tying one roof in to the other unless you want a leak. Actually now that i hear you say how you are going about this, you are more likely to want to save the removed shingles if possible.Now then, you need to quit being so hyper-sensitive. I made no personal attack whatsoever. I merely made an observation of fact. You have a mental block against doing this in manner advised by professionals, instead seeking to do it in a harder manner and creating difficulties for yourself. You are confusing yourself with what you imagine to be holding your desires above what is real.There is no negative castigation there, just plain simple pointing out what is, in an effort to help you.
meanwhile, as you can see, there are often many ways to do a task, and none of us is taking it personally when the others have other opinions. We just each state what our experience and training IS.
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I once put a ridge vent in an old house.
Three layers of various fiberglass/asphalt roofing gave about 5 once I uncapped the top layer.
Straight run of about 25ft.
Sawzall and sacrificed a couple blades.
Hooboy did that hurt. Still gottem tho'. ya never know when you might need a sawzall blade with no teeth.
seeyou invented the Milwaukee Super Sawzall
Edited 10/22/2009 2:59 pm ET by rez
ya never know when you might need a sawzall blade with no teeth.
Take a grinder and cut notches in them. Makes a great tool for digging out lime mortar to remove a brick or pre-tuckpointing.copper p0rn
There you go - inventing the CU tuck-cutter
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I didn't invent that. Just seen restoration masons doing it.copper p0rn
I wouldn't use any circ saw to cut asphalt shingles that I wasn't already thinking of throwing away.
Doesn't everybody have a few of those laying in a corner?? Same old double indulated Skil plastic body ones you get for $2 at garage sales that have a bad brush and that get used with the HF diamond saw and a hose to kerf concrete or saw a new window into that concrete wall??
two dollars?!!!!I have one of those I picked up at the dump for the blade that was in it. learned that only thing wrong was a missing thumbnut to tighten the bevel lock in place
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picked up at the dump
wah! da couunty dont let us pick over at the dump here .......
we actually don't have a dump.It's called a transfer station now.Lot like the federal government - transfers stuff from those who have it to those who want it
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da couunty dont let us pick over at the dump here .....
Hell Art, no telling how much money the county would save if they'd let you hang around the dump and pack off what's usable.copper p0rn
Can't hardly type for laughing at that one
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hot dam(n) copperhead
funny as hell but Junkhound for Commissioner of Western Washington Refuse
oh that would be good junkhound
I should approach the governor / about $139,000 / yr, 6 wks paid vacation and a plethora of bennies
Godsend to the planet
" I wouldn't use any circ saw to cut asphalt shingles that I wasn't already thinking of throwing away."Sometimes when I read this forum, I swear it if filled with prima donna homeowners, sissies or diys or something LOL.I've hacked apart entire roofs with my "real Man's" makita sidewinder and I never felt like I needed to go find a different saw to do that man's job. And I didn't have to do anything special after I was done hacking those roofs apart. In fact, the instant the roof was cut up and tossed out, we were hard at it rebuilding...with the same saw. My suggestion to yall is to get a mans saw if yall want to do fine homebuilding. And don't even think about bring one of those plastic $2 saws within site of me. I'd toss that directly into the dumpster before you could ever get it plugged in. Okay...flame away...or maybe we resurrect the wormie sidewinder wars...
Well, have to admit that a sidewinder can usually get the job done but a wormdrive is a better cutting tool.
I would think that it's extra power would be ideal for hogging through a roof like this. But...remember my earlier advice...the key to blade preservation is cutting with the right speed...not too fast, not too slow.
Cut the roof of my place into four big pieces with my Mak sidewinder. Then we yanked em off with the shovel one at a time and tossed it all in the dumpster. Took about an hour all told. I know, sounds a bit radical but it was in the way of a second storey I had planned, LOL.
Also use the Makita to trim rakes all the time. I just keep a toothless ol' gummy-bear blade around for that stuff.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
That is radical and I'm impressed. What is a gummy bear blade?
One of the last ones I worked onsite with was a demo of 900 sq ft with two layers of ashphalt shingles. Were taking the rafters off too. We just hacked each rafter bay into three sections just large enough for a man to grab and toss. I was the sawguy on the front of the house. I think I had to change the blade once, maybe twice. The guy in the back did the same. Of course, we changed blades to start the reframing.
I think we took about two hours. We had a crane onsite but we never thought about cutting it into larger chunks. The stuff had to go into dumpster anyways. Maybe if we had time and space to do something different, we might have thought about it.
A 'gummy bear' blade is the original el-cheapo blade that comes with a circ when you buy it...after you've abused it so much it no longer has any teeth left. Hence the name gummy bear. Since I use it to trim asphalt singles, it also gets pretty gummed up with tar....
Yah, I had to get the whole 4:12 cathedral-ceiling roof off that place to make room for a second storey housed in a gambrel. Fastest way to do it was to have my shovel operator yank it off in big pieces and then bust it up into flinders and scoop em all up into the dumpster.
The night before the 'big day' I used a recip to cut the nails holding the rafters to the top plates and removed the glass in the gable walls. Morning of, I went up on the roof with the circ and cut a line from eaves to ridge right up the middle of each side of the roof. (Had to use a blade with teeth for that.) Then, in each of the four sections, I cut a pair of holes spanning two rafter bays with the recip, threaded a chain through them, and hooked it to the bucket of the shovel.
OKAY, PIERRE! PULL!!
View Image
Yeah, that's me standing up there on the right side of the roof. Duh....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Didn't recognise you with cloths on!>G<
There's a lovely woman I work with in the winter, whom I'd only ever seen wearing her ski patrol uniform.
A few years ago I ran into her at a garage while we were both waiting to have tires mounted. She recognised me and said, 'Hi!' I looked at her, did a double take, and said without thinking, 'Gee, I almost didn't recognise you with your clothes on!'
Ooops....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
>G<
It's done, already - piece of cake. No saw blades were harmed or killed making this modification.
I haven't yet trimmed the rafter tails to their final length but the eaves are open and the roofing debris is in the dumpster. It was a piece of cake. As intended, the removal has opened up access for the new roof.
I think I cut it at just the right places, such that when the fascia boards are put back on, it will look pretty good. It's almost as if I knew what I was doing. :-)
P.S. - I used a bunch of different methods, just about everything recommended here - circular saw, Sawzall, and hooked knife. Each was used for a different operation.
Edited 10/24/2009 5:33 pm ET by Mike_Mills
And you, my friend, have passed the test. One day you will be a Jedi Master.
Ah only have one 8" Makita sidewinder, like to preserve it. Same with the Skil 20 YO wormdrive.
OTOH, have maybe 15 of the cheap plastic 7-1/4" things, nice and lite, treat as 'throwaway' items, left one at a jobsite (mom's house in IL) last week as not worth packing again.
Plus, dontcha gotta have a couple in every shed with different blades (carbide, steel cutoff, HF diamond) on 'em???
Same thing with 4" angle grinders, 3/8" corded drills, etc. Close to being in the same category as knife blades?
Nope! I don't allow them cheapies in my shed LOL.
I used have a dozen makitas and milwaukees on the shelf in some sort of stage of disrepair. Most needed a switch or a cord. I gave them all away one day and felt much better.
'course you don't have a guard to ruin in the first place
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"ya never know when you might need a sawzall blade with no teeth."Ho-boy! You're my hero!
Besides if you ever end up with an empty shed, you have something you could store in it now, LOL
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Thinking of cutting a long slot beneath my bathroom medicine cabinet where I could slip all the old sawzall's blades and put them to rest.
Give a future renovationist something to think about.
Must be the roofer in us .
The way that I read this scenario, there's not that much demo going on. I don't have a saw I want to gunk up or spend time cleaning afterwards. And when the time comes to roof the new porch, the shingles still have to be fished out and re-laid. IIRC, this is a board sheathed roof rather than plywood, so the only wood cutting would be parallel to the rafter. My answer is specific to this situation, not generic as I believe some of the others are. There was a pic in the OP's other thread.copper p0rn
Exactly the same as I saw it playing out !
You might get by with an abrasive blade cutting the shingles only, but it would be a disaster trying to cut through the sheathng."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'll see yer partnersaw and raise this:http://www.carbidechain.com/sabretoothcarbidechain.php(Mike...check the movie out.)Scott.
Yeah, I was looking for a link to one of those but could only find the circ saw link. Saw one once in the flesh (though not operating) and the thing is a pretty mean looking piece.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
(I wonder what it would be like to put that chain on the hemi-powered chainsaw someone posted about a week ago?)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
>>>I wonder what it would be like to put that chain on the hemi-powered chainsaw someone posted about a week ago?
SawZilla™
I use that saw for cutting crown. LOL"Shawdow boxing the appoclipse and wandering the land"
Wier/Barlow
Done it with skilsaw as you plan, no problem, but do use the cheap $4 HF carbide blades. Change blades only when carbide worn away, should get at least 50 ft of cut per blade.
I'd use my worm drive and cut through the whole works at once. Might want a spare blade around.
and a whole can of WD40 to clean the guts of the saw afterwards
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"and a whole can of WD40 to clean the guts of the saw afterwards"
Surely you don't use your own saw?
LOL, borrow the HOs Black and Decker or Skil
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I'd first remove several courses of shingles by pulling the nails -- saving for re use later .
Then I'd use a sawzall to cut the wood back .
What frammer52 said.
http://www.diasharp.com/demolition-blades.html
I used to see demo blades in stores..I bought them somewhere years ago.
This is all I can find now. Saftey glasses gloves let the chips fly.
Dan
here too.... a beater saw with an old blade.... cut the whole thing... we've done it hundreds of timesMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
A sawsall with a long blade works . Snap a line and cut.
I may try them all to see which I like best. I want this to look nice when I'm done, so control, straightness, smoothness of the edge, etc are important. Of course, getting it over and done with is also important.
I'll be ordering a dumpster for the debris, for delivery by this weekend.
We always used our normal power saw with the Marathon blades. Those blades will take a lot of abuse. The key is to try not to push too fast but we certainly weren't going slow. The problem arises when you find the nails if you are going to fast. Too fast and the teeth get knocked off. A little slower and the blade slices the nail instead.
Aa small black diamond every 19.2" is an alternative OC spacing for framing materials vs. 16" . The 19.2" OC spacing matches 16" OC spacing every 8' so it is compatible with most sheet goods. The benefit of using the diamond spacing is that you save one joist or stud every 8'.
My builder is better than that. He saved enough lumber on my house to do a large part of my neighbor's.He didn't need no stinkin' black diamonds.Pete