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How to deal with plumber (sorry – long)

djj | Posted in General Discussion on October 13, 2004 10:14am

First a bit of background. I am GC’ing my own home. This year two good friends GC’d their own homes and I have helped with work on both houses. I worked construction in college and I am a project manager by trade. Projects I manage can be very large and involve numerous resources. So setting up schedules with critical paths, assigning tasks, and managing budgets is nothing new to me.

So on my new construction, I got bids from three plumbers for the work and chose one (not the lowest bid) based on availability and a recommendation from another builder. When we were getting close to closing on the loan, I called him two weeks before the loan was to close to let him know we would need him soon. After we closed and permits were secured, I called to check his availability for running the water and sewer as the lot was going to be staked for excavation the next week. He said he would be available sometime that week, and to let him know when it was staked. Rain delayed the staking a couple days and I left him a voice mail letting him know. I asked him to call me and let me know when he would actually be able to run the lines as the excavator wanted to know when he could get in, but he never called me back. I kept leaving messages for him asking him to call me so we could discuss the schedule but he didn’t call me back for a week and a half. When he did call, he told me I didn’t know what I was doing and didn’t understand how schedules work. I wanted to say he apparently didn’t know how phones work or he would have called me back but bit my tongue.  I explained that my schedules were based on what he told me his availability was and if that had changed, I needed to know that for scheduling my other subs, and so I could be there when he did the work. I had no problem with his being busy with other jobs, but just wanted him to at least let me know that. After talking to my other subs, his not returning phone calls and being very slow is normal for him.

Three weeks ago, he finally got out to do the work, but ran out of water pipe running it to the house and so stopped with the water pipe about 10′ shy of where the foundation would be.  He ran into my excavator and told him to let him know when excavation was complete (which we both did) and he would come out and take the pipe the rest of the way in. Of course he never came out or returned phone calls after that. I called and left messages for him last week telling him that the foundation company wanted to pour footings and he should get out and lay the rest of the pipe; again nothing. We are now getting ready to pour the walls and will be able to backfill in a week and need to get the water line ran the rest of the way. I called and left another voice mail for him telling him this but haven’t heard back.

So should I fire this guy, pay him for work done, and try to find someone to take over the job? The good thing is that I haven’t signed his bid sheet and I don’t see anything in it that states that a start of work implies acceptance of the bid. However, I am sure that my not signing wouldn’t stop him from slapping a lien on us or trying to overcharge me for the work done.

I appreciate any suggestions you might have and apologize for being so long winded.

Dennis

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  1. User avater
    EricPaulson | Oct 13, 2004 11:16pm | #1

    You can do the foundation.........sleeve the spot for the h2o.

    You will have to excavate again if you backfill before he gets there. I'd also suggest that he should have bought out enough copper to complet your service 1) without a coupling if possible 2) all in one trip at least.

    I'd have a talk with him and see if he is having some kind of problems. If he offers you sincere apologies and his cell phone #, he might be worth a second chance.

    Otherwise pay him for the work completed and ditch him. His current attitude may be clearly indicative of things to come. Who needs to be chasing subs?

    Now ask yourself why you chose him in the first place.

    Good luck,

    Eric

    I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,

    With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.

    1. djj | Oct 14, 2004 12:29am | #3

      Eric,

      Thanks for the reply.  If he would return my calls we could hopefully come to some sort of agreement. But it is next to impossible to get him to call back, and he can never be reached at the office or his cell.

      Part of the reason I think he ran out of pipe was the way he ran the water line. On this lot (150'x220') the water comes in on the front and the sewer is on the side. He ran the sewer in the side of the house but tried to run the water at a 45 deg angle to get it to enter the house at about the same point as the sewer rather than coming straight in. So not only did he run out of pipe but will probably charge me for extra the 30 feet of excavation he did by coming in at an angle. I told him I wanted to meet with him before he started so we could discuss where we brought in the pipes but he didn't call be back then either. The only way I knew he was digging that day was I happened to drive by the lot on my way to talk to my brick sub and saw him there.

      As to why I picked him...looking back...good question.

      Thanks again!

      D

      1. User avater
        CapnMac | Oct 14, 2004 01:00am | #4

        why I picked him...looking back...good question

        Yeah, he's not headquatered in Navasota, Texas by any chance?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      2. User avater
        EricPaulson | Oct 14, 2004 02:48am | #5

        >>I told him I wanted to meet with him before he started so we could discuss where we brought in the pipes but he didn't call be back then either. The only way I knew he was digging that day was I happened to drive by the lot on my way to talk to my brick sub and saw him there.

        Had you provided for the excavation (as I would have, others?) you would not have had this problem.

        I assume that you also are lacking a site or plot plan that would indicate spurs and or desired locations of utilities. This would be given to the excavator and the plumber.

        So perhaps the plumber is not entirely to blame.

        Eric

        About these parts anyway, the local municipality runs the water line to the house and into the basement at your direction and excavation. Sewer is my responsibility once they mark it out and inspect my line to their spur.

        I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,

        With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.

        Edited 10/13/2004 7:53 pm ET by firebird

        1. djj | Oct 14, 2004 05:22am | #9

          Eric,

          Thanks for your reply. Yes, we had a site plan and all documents from the city detailing the location of the spurs. When a copy of the house plans were given to the plumber, we discussed the location of the mechanicals, manifolds etc. in the basement. Part of my reason for wanting to meet with him before the water/sewer excavation was to go over the site plan that had been updated after we staked the foundation. And of course I wanted to be there during the dig.  Again this is all stuff I told him in the voice mails I left for him since he never calls back.

          Some excavators here will do the water/sewer excavation but most don't want to deal with it and prefer to let the plumber run their own hoe. My foundation excavation sub (best in town) won't mess with it. 

          Again, thanks for your advice. I appreciate it!.

          Kind regards,

          Dennis

      3. gdavis62 | Oct 14, 2004 04:47am | #7

        At this point in the game, you need to know the answer to the question that's right around the corner, and it is this.  Can either of these other plumbing contractors that bid the job step in now and pick up where this guy left off, and be responsive to your needs?

        The likely answer is no.  To all of them, you are an owner-GC, a one-time shot, no repeat business, running a badly-organized job.  You may in fact be more on top of everything than half or more of the schlocko builders they work for, but that's their view, nonetheless.

        If you don't have some rock-solid assurance of a good back-up, you had better suck it in and figure out how to work with this guy.

        1. FastEddie1 | Oct 14, 2004 05:17am | #8

          I don't fully agree Bob.  DJJ has already experienced some significant problems with the plumber, and the other subs have confirmed that he doesn't return calls and is on his own schedule.  I would be tempted to get another plumber and make the best of it.

          He doesn't sound professional.  His phone and schedule actions are cetainly unprofessional, and selfish.  Maybe his schedule is full, but he could make a 30 second phone call at a traffic light.

          Just too many red flags already.  Why should DJJ, the customer, have to encumber his project and the other subs with the antics of a child?

          Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

  2. geob21 | Oct 13, 2004 11:38pm | #2

    Where are you building? Around here water and sewer hookups aren't done till the house is near complete.

  3. User avater
    Wayfarer | Oct 14, 2004 03:09am | #6

    Is this guy in the SF Bay Area by chance???

    This is exactly the crap I ran into regarding no return phone calls, leaving me hanging on a transition from one sub to another.  I got somebody else, four months later I got slapped with a small claims appearance; judgement for him.  I appealed, judgement reduced.  I must have worked with a dozen or more other subs on my project and had nothing like this happen.

    My only suggestion is GET STUFF IN WRITING i.e. your intent to end his services with a...whatever-it-is-day notice that he will be off the job unless he responds.  And get this writing documented i.e. return, registered mail.

    If it is anything like my ordeal, if you want to pay him now and get him your site, he will say what he has already done is worth twice more than what it actually is.  At least the notice that he will be terminated unless he responds should get him thinking twice about flaking for the rest of the job if you keep him.

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