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How to deal with quote — plumbing

barmil | Posted in General Discussion on January 1, 2010 07:04am

Okay, I’m bummed. I need to replace a shower/tub valve that just hasn’t held up –American Standard Amerylis (sp?). My long time plumber quoted $750 to put in a $170 Symmons Allura shower valve in my existing system requiring no further modifications. Give me a break!!! I was also going to have them totally replace my house’s galvanized iron piping, a much bigger project, but this one quote makes me question the remainder. I thought that these guys needed work in this economy rather than offer high quotes that prompt me to get other quotes when I’ve used them without question for my plumbing for sixteen years. I’ll be talking to the boss on Monday, but I wonder about what seems obvious to me as price gouging. Is this now the norm? Was I just too friendly? I have 20+ years as a purchasing director, so I do know the ropes. Barmil

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  1. davidmeiland | Jan 01, 2010 07:55pm | #1

    So... what do you figure their cost is to do the job?

    1. barmil | Jan 01, 2010 08:16pm | #2

      A couple of hours at the most for the shower/tub valve. I think I could do it in 3-4 hours, but I'd probably set the house on fire soldering the pipe and lose my wife.

  2. IdahoDon | Jan 01, 2010 08:26pm | #3

    You may be right that it's
    You may be right that it's simply a ploy to take advantage of your situation, or it may be that you are viewed as a problem client and are being charged the pain-in-the-ass surcharge. Perhaps all their guys are tied up on other projects during the time frame you need the work done and the additional surcharge is realistic for what it costs them internally to do your project. It could also be that the hassle factor of these projects makes them charge more than most--there could be a number of similar jobs where they lost or broke even.

    I know a plumber who only wants to do business with guys he's worked with before and anyone else gets a surcharge of sorts.

    Another plumber charges more in areas with a pain in the buttt inspector.

    The list of reasons why some bids are higher than others could go on and on, but what it comes down to is you asked them what they want to do the work and you think it's too high....so vote with your feet and use a less expensive plumber, or tell them it seems high and see if you can help them feel good about a lower number.

    Along the same lines I will say it's overly simplistic to say you get what you pay for, but for those of us who work with the same subs over and over we are perhaps in the best seat to see if a price is reasonable or not.

    Best of luck

    1. User avater
      Nuke | Jan 03, 2010 06:32am | #12

      There was this guy in my neighborhood that took advantage of female clients. He charge for women was about twice that of men. Its one thing to do this outside of your own neighborhood, but he did it in his own neighborhood.

      Maybe the wife at home set his mood to alienate women-based work.

  3. IdahoDon | Jan 01, 2010 08:29pm | #4

    "....so I know the ropes." *big grin*

  4. User avater
    Matt | Jan 01, 2010 09:12pm | #5

    How is the access? Tear oug drywall? tile? access panel with full access? What?

  5. Clewless1 | Jan 01, 2010 09:22pm | #6

    If just a simple replacement figure the usual ... labor is ROUGHLY the same as materials (that is a 'normal' rough construction estimate for many things). But as others have pointed out, many factors may affect this. If it involves tearing out e.g. tile and replacement, then that's another issue. If the acces to the back is in e.g. the back of a closet, then tearing into sheetrock is less of an issue than the prime wall of your living room.

  6. BigBill | Jan 01, 2010 11:01pm | #7

    So go get a few more quotes for the job. If they come in way lower your regular plumber is too high. Try to get an apples to apples comparison on the scope of the job.

  7. User avater
    popawheelie | Jan 02, 2010 01:03pm | #8

    I figure you either have time or money.

    If you want to make sure of what you are getting, you need to do your homework.

    Get more bids! Coming here and complaining won't get that done. Even if your complaints are valid.

    I like to be able to trust people but those people are few a far between.

    For 16 years you haven't questioned your plumbers work or price? These days I question just about everything.

    It is very difficult to run a small company these days in this economy.

  8. User avater
    Gene_Davis | Jan 02, 2010 02:26pm | #9

    As a purchasing director (and I once had a job just like yours, back when I worked) you must know the value of researching the scope of the purchase, drafting and presenting a good RFQ, and how to discuss a proposal, in a face to face meeting.

    Have you tried to get all possible documentation, particularly of the techical type, like installation instructions, for both the unit to come out, and the one to go in? A really good read-through of both would be worthwhile.

    Have you tried looking at all the resources available, on the web and at bookshelf at Lowe's or Home Depot, as regards taking out and replacing a shower valve?

    You might even get convinced you could do the job yourself, even if you had to buy some tools and gear.

    In any event, you need to prepare to have to pay, if you are going to hire this work done, for at least a couple hours work, and plumbers charge like doctors and lawyers for their time.

    Would you be more comfortable paying for the work on an hourly rate basis?

    1. barmil | Jan 02, 2010 03:13pm | #10

      Excellent response, Gene. They say that a plumber's faucet always leaks, well a purchasing director may be doing more for his boss than for himself. Yes, I'm going to do multiple quotes now. It's just that I've had a good, long term relationship with this plumber, and that may soon be ending. I don't think it's the boss so much as his estimator. I'll discuss this with the boss on Monday. No, I do not consider myself to be a pain in the butt -- I treat vendors nicely and with respect, and I expect the same in return. We have a fairly high unemployment rate in this city, and the trades are hurting with construction down. I would expect better customer handling.

  9. JeffinPA | Jan 02, 2010 05:04pm | #11

    It is a strange world we are in. I just opened something from my drywaller that is 2x what it should be.

    I will push back aggressively.

    I will also begin to bid out everything that I do.

    Contractors are taking advantage of people who they think will not shop them. Not all but some.

    I will go out and find a better company who will give me better pricing.

    Talk to their boss and then shop em anyway. You are purchasing rep. You know the rules. 3 bids. It is a pain and you need to check references, etc. but that is the way to ensure you are getting a fair price and deal.

    On the other hand, perhaps it is easier to to buy a fire extinguisher and soak a few rags and git er done and pocket the savings or take your wife out to dinner and hope the house doesnt burn down.

  10. Schelling | Jan 03, 2010 07:53pm | #13

    We have used the same plumber for 30 years. I don't bother to get a quote from him though the bill always is higher than I would like. I have tried others in the past and not been happy with the work. The biggest problem with anyone else is that they will not service the work with the same consistency as our regulars. Though this is not a big concern with most of the trades, it is number one when it comes to plumbing. On the few occasions where we have done work outside of our normal radius, we insist that the homeowner use a local plumber, one with a track record of servicing their work.

    This said, it never hurts to try out a new tradesman, at least if you are willing to eat the cost of a mistake. As a contractor who is looking for competent subs, I look at this as part of my overhead. For a homeowner hiring one time, it is just a loss.

  11. maverick | Jan 03, 2010 08:07pm | #14

    sounds high when you could do it yourself.

    look at it from his point of view. did he come out and look at it already? thats 2 hours. does he have to order and go pick up the new valve? thats another 2 hours. 2 guys come out, get set up,spread tarps,open the wall, replace, close up the wall, clean up,drive back, warrantee the work, pay for liability insurance, workmans comp @30% on labor, truck payments/insurance and office and shop overhead/maintenance, then office support answering phones and do ordering and billing.

    then above all try to squeeze out a profit?

    the nerve!

    some times I could talk myself right out of business.lol

    1. barmil | Jan 03, 2010 08:28pm | #15

      No, Maverick, I'm not playing
      No, Maverick, I'm not playing my so sorry violin for you. Nobody pays for the time to provide an estimate after the fact, plus your times are out of whack, and your scenario isn't even applicable. If front loading your time in a subsequent quote is your philosophy, good luck. Most contractors advertise free quotes. This case is cutting four lines (hot in, cold in, shower out, and spout out), all accessible with no problem, and then braising in a new valve. Same shower, same spout as before -- No new routing or anything. I'll be talking with my plumber tomorrow, and if he backs his estimator, I'm walking, for good, and I'll be sure to let him know that he's lost a long time customer. How is it that I always get along with roofers, electricians, exterior siders, overhead door, name any other trade with the same overhead, but plumbers are always such a backside pain?

      1. calvin | Jan 03, 2010 08:36pm | #16

        plumbers are always such a backside pain?

        Meaning no offense, but you never know the reasoning that comes from someone that deals with what comes outta peoples backside.

      2. rich1 | Jan 03, 2010 09:23pm | #17

        It ain't front loading, and
        It ain't front loading, and NO quote is free. The estimator has to be paid, and it comes from billable time.

        Estimating, billing, ordering and pickup of material, job supervision, payroll, 2 hours probably don't cut it.

        Anybody calls me for that job, I tell them they are better off to do it by the hour, but allow 4 hours.

        Pipes don't line up, existing hole is too big/small, water won't shut off, whatever can go wrong, usually will with a quote.

        Having said all that, talk to the owner. But don't be suprised if he ain't happy. Especially with the attitude that we need to lower our prices cause it's slow. If anything, prices should be higher. Overhead don't change, and still has to be paid for.

      3. MikeSmith | Jan 04, 2010 10:34pm | #18

        most contractors are neophytes following the pack.... why would anyone "ADVERTISE" free quotes...

        because they think that's how it is done... but it ain't

        open the yellow pages and throw some darts

        here's what you'll see..

        "free estimates " & "fully insured"

        neither phrase means a damn thing

        now...go get your three bids... lemme know how that works out for you

        1st... you're going to be dealing with two contractors you have no relationship with

        then you have to analyse the results

        then next week... or next month..... or next year...you're going to need another plumbing job.... maybe the new guy will wind up as your go-to guy... but maybe not

      4. maverick | Jan 05, 2010 08:22am | #19

        sure most contractors advertise free quotes. thats what we like to do with our spare time, work for free. you're out of your head if you think the time estimating is not rolled into the project.

        its obvious you have never been in business for yourself.

        little jobs like you describe are a PITA to put it lightly. the profit margin is so small its hardly worth the time to go look (for free)

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