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How to Fix PVC Joint

DonK | Posted in Construction Techniques on March 29, 2006 02:42am

Had an old school mechanic (Joe) working for me couple weeks ago. He kept telling me how good he was, how he learned from the best…etc. Part of what he needed to do was glue up a stack of 3″ PVC fittings going to a toilet. Everything was laid out and tight.

Finally hooked up the bowl today and the helper said to me – better call Joe back, there’s a leak in the line. I never saw PVC leak – on a vertical stack nonetheless. I looked at the joint and could swear it was never glued. There’s another one further up that was glued poorly and it leaks too, just a little.

I’m really not looking to take the bowl off and take the whole thing apart. Some of these joints are next to each other and that’s going to mean using a Fernco, which I can’t stand. Is there another way? Out of curiousity as much as anything,  what if I just wiped glue at the bottom of the fitting where the pipe goes in? Would it do any good?

You guys that work with this stuff every day know any shortcuts that you can share?

Don K.

EJG Homes      Renovations – New Construction – Rentals

 

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Replies

  1. BillBrennen | Mar 29, 2006 03:35am | #1

    Don,

    I think you need to cut out the whole mess and redo with new fittings. Even if you succeed at fixing the ones that leak today, what about the ones that almost leak, and will fail inside of a few years? Wiping glue on the joint after it is assembled is a bogus repair.

    Another tip: Guys who talk a lot about how good they are, usually aren't very good. This has been my experience, and not just in construction trades.

    Bill

  2. davidmeiland | Mar 29, 2006 03:42am | #2

    I agree with Bill. I glued together a bunch of 3" ABS drain fittings under a small bathroom a couple of years ago. It was cold and I foolishly used a 'multipurpose' ABS/PVC cement that is available locally. Pure crap. Anyway, a lot of the fittings were very close together or even hub to hub, so there was no way to replace just the one that leaked on test.

    Before I resigned myself to redoing it, I tried pulling a vacuum in the line with a shop vac and dabbing glue on the leaky area, hoping some would be drawn in where it could set up. No go. Seemed like a good idea at the time!

    1. DonK | Mar 29, 2006 04:33am | #3

      David -

      Thanks to both you and Bill for the prompt response. I had a feeling going in I knew the answer. Maybe there's somebody out there yet that has the magic trick - the one that doesn't start with a saw. <G> 

      I know what Bill is saying about braggarts. I'm not fond of them and suspicious too. When we met, my heart didn't exactly go pitter pat, but I gave him a shot. He worked for me about three weeks. I'm tempted to call him back and ask him how long his guarantee lasts but it's probably not worth my aggravation.

      It's annoying on a couple  levels. I spent a good couple hours one weekend getting this pile of fittings ready for him on Monday. Actually he had started it and I didn't like the way he had it, I redid it. This was around the time I went out of my way to find him an extra couple day's work. He was an old guy with a heart problem, looking to supplement his SS and pension check and I wanted to help him out.  Then this. (By the way, he's a former union worker too as he told me a few times so it wasn't like he was unskilled.)

       This bathroom has been one annoyance after another. Everything that could go wrong, did - sometimes twice! Oh well - life goes on.

      Don K.

  3. MSA1 | Mar 29, 2006 04:38am | #4

    I too tried in vain to simply add more glue. It didnt work for me. Those joints can be tricky if you forget to give them a twist.

    Cut your loses......cut it out and start over.

  4. plumbbill | Mar 29, 2006 07:04am | #5

    Well if one uses purple primer then we all know if it's been glued or not most of the time.

    Do I dare tell how to fix without takin apart well uh um er eh--------------

    OK here is the skinny want to fix it so it won't leak without being totally hokie. Hot air welder would be the first weapon of choice, strip of pvc pipe & yup it's just like tig welding but it's plastic.

    Takes some practice though.

    OK now here is the "NON CORRECT" way ,but works most of the time

    Gawd I can't believe I'm actually telling someone to do this----- take a coupling or a fitting of the same pipe size cut it about 1" long then snip that so it can open around the pipe.

    Use a good primer where the pipe meets the leaking fitting, use a thick pvc glue like gray medium set. glue old joint liberaly place ring of pvc fitting you cut onto glued part use a hose clamp to secure while the glue sets up.

    OK it's just info do  with it what you will, this does work but if it doesn't yer cuttin it out & starting over.

    Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW

    1. User avater
      BillHartmann | Mar 29, 2006 07:51am | #7

      I have heard of this trick. But I have never tried it and think that in this case it might be too hard to do.But seal one end and "adapte" the other end to a shop vac.Let it pull a vacuum on the line and then apply cement to the bad spots and let it be pulled in.

      1. User avater
        McDesign | Mar 29, 2006 03:16pm | #8

        I would be concerned about the flammable fumes going through the motor brushes on a shop vac!

        Forrest

        1. LeeLamb | Mar 29, 2006 03:34pm | #9

          Yep! Me too. I can picture the shopvac looking like a salamander (heater).

        2. User avater
          bp21901 | Mar 29, 2006 04:27pm | #13

          Amen to the flamethrower danger....
          Last fall there was a story on the Baltimore news that a man trying to do something similar with a shop vac nearly burned himself to death. He was trying to save money since gas was around $3 / gal at the time. He had an old abandoned car on his property and tried to suck the gas out of the tank with his shop vac. He was moderately successful until it ignited! This man was almost nominated for the Darwin Awards, but he survived. They concluded the story with the serious warning not to suck up anything flammable into your shop vac!

          1. FrankDuVal | Mar 30, 2006 06:37am | #24

            Speaking of flamethrowers, The Chicagoland Corvair Club used to get several vacuum cleaners and set them up at a safe distance to suck gasoline for the Fourth of July. I've heard it was quite a fireworks display. There is a DVD in production.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

      2. DonK | Mar 29, 2006 04:09pm | #12

        Bill - David said he tried that trick and it didn't work for him. In the bad joint, it looks like there's no glue at all. I don't have a big enough vacuum to even think about that - even ignoring the flamethrower possibility.

        Don K.

        EJG Homes      Renovations - New Construction - Rentals

    2. DonK | Mar 29, 2006 03:50pm | #10

      Bill - That is the kind of trick that a professional knows, and I can add to my bag of tricks. Thank you. I'm not doing anything with it today - too disgusted. Tomorrow I'll deal with it.

      (By the way, I had purple primer, it seemed to lose it's color since I last used it. Either that or he dumped my bottle into his and swapped. Seemed like his box of fittings got fuller when he left than it was when he came - and my box got empty. I saw no evidence of primer or glue on the worst joint. The blue lettering on the side of the pipe wasn't smeared, and neither was the pen line that he used for a line up on the two joints.)

      Don K.

      EJG Homes       Renovations - New construction - Rentals

      Edited 3/29/2006 8:56 am ET by DonK

      1. notascrename | Mar 29, 2006 06:38pm | #15

        I've seen "plumbers" pour a part can of purple cleaner in their glue.....

    3. Snowmon | Mar 29, 2006 08:09pm | #16

      "Gawd I can't believe I'm actually telling someone to do this----- take a coupling or a fitting of the same pipe size cut it about 1" long then snip that so it can open around the pipe."

      I tried that once and it did work.  Thought I invented it!  Did not think of the hose clamp though.  That's an improvement.

      To save a fitting, you can actually use pipe of the same diameter, and glue 2 pieces.  Of course you need a very square cut.

      I like your welding idea.  Sounds like a good time.-The poster formerly known as csnow

  5. User avater
    JeffBuck | Mar 29, 2006 07:49am | #6

    it's plastic ...

    it's cheap ...

    it's easy ...

     

    so just cut it out and do it right.

    That said ... what's wrong with a Fernco?

     

    Jeff

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

    1. DonK | Mar 29, 2006 04:04pm | #11

      Jeff - To me the Ferncos make the job look like they were done by a homeowner or somebody that didn't really know what they were doing. Partly too, it's a carryover from working with my father - they weren't even legal then in this town. I use them when I really must. Joe didn't mind them, he had three of them in a group of less than a dozen fittings. That was one reason I (re)laid it out myself - to get rid of two of them

      Like I said to Bill - this one's gonna sit today. Tomorrow I will look at it again, maybe with saw in hand, maybe with just a coupling and a can of good glue.

      Don K.

      EJG Homes      Renovations - New Construction - Rentals

       

      1. 30ALL | Mar 29, 2006 08:37pm | #17

        Fernco exists for a reason, in some area you can not use all-purpose glue to connect pvc to abs pipe, fernco or mission coupler is the only way. Codes permit fernco being burried underground, I'm sure it's ok to use it in the wall. Nothing to be ashame about using fernco.

        1. plumbbill | Mar 30, 2006 03:26am | #22

          Fernco is a brand---- so they make several different styles.

          The UPC forbids the ones that is a plain rubber hose with two hose clamps to be used inside the building line.

          Inside the building line all rubber no-hub couplings must have a stainless steel wrap between the hose clamps & the rubber.Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW

          1. DonK | Mar 30, 2006 05:23am | #23

            See - there's another practical piece of info you gave me. That's two in two days. Already doubled my knowledge. If this thread stays alive for another three or four days, I'll be calling myself an expert. <G>

            Don K.

            EJG Homes      Renovations - New Construction -  Rentals

             

          2. DaveRicheson | Mar 31, 2006 01:09pm | #28

            Before you cut all of it out try a heat gun.

            Heat the fitting with a heat gun untill it is hot, but not getting soft, and then daub on a liberal snot of glue. (remove the heat first). The glue will suck down into the joint just like solder does in a sweat joint.

            I have used the above method a few times on my own work, when I didn't get a good twist on larger pieces of pipe and ended up with a small leak. It works well on vertical joints because there is little likelyhood of the joint being wet.  Horizontal joints are a little tougher because they are harder to get dried out.

            A plumbing inspector and a guy at the plumbing supply house gave me that tip.

             

            Dave

          3. Jemcon | Mar 30, 2006 03:18pm | #25

            The UPC forbids the ones that is a plain rubber hose with two hose clamps to be used inside the building line.

            When you say inside the building line what exactly does that mean ? Is that closed in a wall or under a sink?

            I've seen them used under a sink a few times to covert from old galv to pvc on traps. Is that legal? 

             

             

            Headstong, I'll take on anyone!

          4. plumbbill | Mar 31, 2006 03:38am | #26

            Anything inside the footing line.

            If you saw one under a sink transitioning iron to plastic without the full metal shield, that would not be legal, & I'm pretty sure it wasn't inspected.

            But I have seen things that get by an inspector.Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW

          5. BillBrennen | Mar 31, 2006 08:37am | #27

            Plumbbill,Is this UPC prohibition on sleeveless Ferco couplings inside the building line a recent change, or a long-time standard? My plumber used one on a vertical drain and the inspector didn't bat an eye, just signed it off. That was in 2002 or 3.Bill

          6. plumbbill | Mar 31, 2006 03:02pm | #29

            Long time standard.

            But I'm not sure on the international code.

            Also I have seen them installed & inspectors didn't make us change them untill the early 90's.

            I think inspectors find something new to them in the code then go on a witch hunt for that paticular item.Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW

  6. User avater
    txlandlord | Mar 29, 2006 04:33pm | #14

    From a Builders perspective......REDO and check after completion.

    A little effort now may pay big dividends in the future, no call backs, no damage to fix, no unhappy customers, etc.

    A slow leak is sometimes worse that a big one as the damage can go on for days, weeks or months without detection.

    Make sure it is right....do not take any "seemingly" easy route. Fix it and fix it right, just like it had been done (should have been done)  right in the first place.

  7. ClaysWorld | Mar 29, 2006 10:06pm | #18

    Slip a couple of these in and your good to go. I thought it had a picture but u know what a slip coupling is.

    Repair Coupling, 3"

    This item is available both in store and online.

    Our Retail Locations are located throughout New England and Upstate New York.

    • Genova Products Model # 70133

    • REPAIR COUPLING - HUB X HUB - NO STOP
    • SCHEDULE 40
    • Size Inches = 3
    • Unit: each
    • Unit Weight: 0.4000 lbs
    • UPC
    View Image

    Repair coupling furnished without center stop so that stationary lengths of pipe can be spliced together. Used in drain waste vent applications. This Repair Coupling is one of many top quality items in our PVC Unions & Couplings department. More Info...

    Aubuchon Item # 305797

    1. DonK | Mar 29, 2006 10:26pm | #19

      CLAYSWORLD -

      I was curious about slip couplings for 3" pipe. Can I just remove the center stop from a standard coupling? The problem is that on the vent fittings, they aren't hub to hub, but close. Tops I have is about 1.5", so I would need to cut down the width of the coupling (slip or regular) to fit.

      I've used plenty of slip couplings on copper, presume same. But with the glue, what do you do - glue coupling, slide it on, then glue pipe, move coupling up and clena the glue off the area which is now uncovered?

      (BTW- Thanks for mentioning this.)

      Don K.

      EJG Homes      Renovations - New  Construction - Rentals

      1. ClaysWorld | Mar 29, 2006 10:32pm | #20

        ON a normal fitting it's slightly tappered but in a pinch I've done it. reemed out the center stop and sanded out the taper with a smaller pice of pipe and psa sanding discs on the smaller pipe.

        Reem the burs on the cut pices and mark the pipe so you know you get the proper placement of the shortened coupling.

      2. ClaysWorld | Mar 29, 2006 10:37pm | #21

        Slip dry fitting to glued pipe/liberally applied to both sections.

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