How to make casting of handprints?
I need the expertise of this forum. I’ll try to make the story short. A little over 10 years ago my brothers and I designed and built a house for my mom after my dad died. In a concrete retaining wall at the front of the house my daughter put her handprints in the wet concrete. Many of you will remember that she was killed in a car wreck four years ago. My mother recently sold her house, and it was agreed in the contract that the buyer (a developer) would cut out the handprints to give to us. This has not occurred, and I am looking at options. Does anyone know what the best way to make a casting of this would be? Unfortunately I am in Ohio and the house is in Forth Worth, Texas. Anyone know someone I could hire to do this for me? This is so frustrating to try to deal with long distance.
John
Replies
This deserves an early bump to keep it at the top.
If I was in the greater Dallas-Ft Worth area I'd go cut it out myself, must be someone that can do it. I wouldn't give up on getting the original.
Doug
Plaster of Paris from any hardware store to start.
Coat the hand prints with something to prevent bonding.
A dusting of cornstarch might work or smear it with Vaseline.
Mix plaster as per instructions ( slowly and gently to avoid
air bubbles).
Pour it in.
The only real trouble would if there are undercuts in the prints.
Then it will be almost impossible to remove.
If there are you will need to use one of the latex formulas that
you pour in and then they harden while remaining flexible.
As far as hiring someone, maybe one of those outfits that
make paw prints of deceased pets.
Doc,
I remember that night.
anyway I snooped around a bit and found this tape of Martha Stewart.... why not..... making a mold of some airheads hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIFzNyFZDWs
and she used this product
http://www.smooth-on.com/lifecasting.htm
maybe some BT'er from Texas will come along and try to help out
and if you don't mind my saying the buyer is a great big doodie head,
actually I wanted to write
.
.
. . . . . . . .
Yes. It takes a bit of doing but is really not that hard.
You need to get some shellac, a can of Pam, casting plaster (obtained at an art or crafts store, you can also use plaster of Paris if needs be), and an artists brush.
What you have now is a 'negative' or the impressions of the hand prints. You have to go to where they are, clean them up with hot water, soap and a scrub brush as to get any lichen or mold out of the nooks & crannies.
It then has to be dried with a hair dryer or a heat gun.
Now you must seal the impressions with shellac, apply 2 light coats...it dries quickly.
Next you need to lightly spray or brush some sort of separator like Pam or vegetable oil on it. This acts as a releasing agent to the plaster. There are release agents made for professional casting, but Pam will work just fine.
Here you have to work along quickly. Mix up about a quarter cup of the plaster to the consistency of heavy cream and with the artist brush, paint the plaster into the nooks & corners of the hand prints. Make sure there are no air bubbles.
Now, mix up enough plaster (same consistency) to fill up the rest of the void. SLOWLY pour it in till it just overflows the top. Take a hammer and firmly tap the concrete around where the prints are. This causes any surface air bubbles to rise away and not be seen in the casting.
Wait until the plaster is good and hard like 2-3 hours. Even better, 24 hours.
Take a dinner knife and carefully wedge the positive castings away. If there are voids, or if a small chunk of the plaster did not come out, don't despair, you can build that up and shape it later on.
Now you have 'positive' castings. Preserve them carefully, because now you can make a permanent negative mold out of them from rubber molding products and run off as many positive castings as you want. Once you have the positives, you can make any kind of mounting background you wish.
Making negative mold is a bit of a different process but the same principal. There are many sources for rubber molding products. Google away. Abitron is one. I know that Woodworkers of New Mexico carries a brand.
Honestly, if I lived down there or anywhere near, I would gladly do this for you.
My thoughts are with you. Best of luck.
Good reply--is there any way he could stick something partially into the mold so he could just pull on it to get the mold out once it had cured? Was just thinking that a knife prying on it could damage the plaster. Maybe a loop of thick wire or strapping partially embedded?
Absolutely dead on what you say. I used to use pieces of coat hanger wire.
Just to add:
Dick Blick in Allentown, carries latex mold medium. Brush multiple layers and support with modelling clay. I used it to cast finials with bondo for an organ in Georgia.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Yeah, the casting shop I worked for in NYC used to get their supplies from Allentown, so I'm sure it's the same guy. We used to run the forms for a lot of state houses and large churches. Most of what I did was pattern work. I was in on some of the big casts when they needed as many bodies as they could get.Your method with the modeling clay is the old time tested way of building a "mother mold".
It really gets interesting when you have to take a negative from a piece that's maybe 20' in the air and upside down.
John,
I have seen or heard of latex kits you can pour into the depression (the hand prints) and it will make a "positive" of them. Kind of similar to the plaster just a different method. Maybe it would be easier for someone to do there for you since you are remote?
Good luck with this as I would see it as a VERY import thing to take care of. I wish the new owners would recoginze this for you as well
Mike
kiddoc,
Another option would be is to pour them with some melted beeswax to do lost wax casting. Then you can get them cast in metal. One cast is one metal replica.
KK
Edited 6/17/2008 10:57 pm by coonass
my best friend is a dentist - we've done various casts over the years with products used for taking dental impressions -
if you need, I'll find out some specifics -
John,
I'm willing to take a stab at it for you. I will try in the next few days to make some casts of some hand prints I have from a shed project a few years ago. That will tell us if I can do it with success.
I am in North-East Dallas County but do get over to Fort Worth now and again to see my college room mate and his family, In fact we plan on heading over there in the next week or so.
What part of Fort Worth are we talking about?
Kiddoc said this is on a retaining wall...i'm thinking "vertical", though that may not be the case. Anyway, the suggestions so far sound like they would be harder to manage on a wall unless a dam were built to hold the slurry. As long as you are trying things, my bet is on Bondo. It doesn't form bubbles like plaster does, you can mix thick enough to press into the impression and apply pressure with a piece of waxpaper-covered board, it cures quickly, and it comes out pretty clean if a release is used (wax will keep it from sticking, but maybe PAM would, too.) You can do multiple layers if you want to be sure of getting it into the crevices. It cures hard but not brittle like plaster.
I've used plumbers epoxy for vertical castings. It takes some pressure to get it to fill the shape but it get's every detail.
What I do is mix the whole tube, or however much it takes, roll it into a ball, then use a scrap of 1x or plywood to press it. Hold it for about 15 minutes and presto, you have your casting.
All the same stuff applies about using a release agent - wax, oil, whateve works. Also, a few staples or something in the wood to help assure it sticks to the wood and not the wall.
Then again a 16" demolition saw will take that chunk of wall right out, no problem.
Good luck with it.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
From the little first hand experience I have, I'd think latex is the way to go in order to ensure you can remove it cleanly. But I have a friend that was a Hollywood SFX guy, who did many masks etc for movies. Shall I get a hold of him for an opinion?
Just thinking out loud... why don't we try to get a few hundred BTers to email/call the developer and shame him into abiding by his agreement?PaulB
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply. To clarify, it is on top of the retaining wall, so it is a horizontal surface. It is in the Forest Park area of Fort Worth (near South side). I have not given up yet on getting them cut out. The problem has been that my brother has been dealing with the developer, and he (my brother) is not known for following through on things. He says the developer keeps promising to have them cut out but it has been about 6 months now. To make things even messier, he had purchased a block of houses for very inflated prices, planning on a large multiunit development, and the zoning commission just turned down his zoning request. As a result, he is having financial problems, so I realize that this is not a priority for him. I am just afraid if I don't push now, the bulldozers will show up and it will be too late.
John
Near TCU and the Colonial? or further down near I20?TFB (Bill)
Near TCU. It is a couple blocks South of St. Stephen Presbyterian Church, if you know where that is.
John
Not off hand, but Google is a powerful tool.Due east of the campus.TFB (Bill)
Yes.
John
Among other things, I'm a sculptor. Although I've not a lot of experience in mold making, I might have more than most here. I'd use a rtv (room temperature vulcanizing) rubber mold compound, preferably silicon based. This stuff will not stick to anything. It will make a mold (It'll be a negative of what is there.) that will show her fingerprints if they are present in the concrete. In other words, it will duplicate all the detail. I would suggest you contact a local art school, university, or art center to locate an individual who could do this for you. Once you have the rubber mold, you can make as many plaster, concrete, epoxy, or whatever casts that you want with no loss of detail. If you use plaster as the mold material you stand the chance of it sticking to the concrete. Vaseline will act as a release but plaster will pick up the brush marks of the vaseline. The dental mold making material is alginate. This will work well for one casting. The alginate dries out very quickly so the casting must be done soon after the mold is done. Both alginate and rtv rubber need a plaster mother mold.
A couple of months ago another buddy of mine took our boys to a model train show at Will Rogers. Drove thru the campus (his Alma Matter) while over there. The house he lived in on Lubock south of Lowden is now a parking lot, looks to be very close to your Mom's place.TFB (Bill)
Edited 6/18/2008 12:18 pm by ToolFreakBlue
At first I was thinking vertical as well. The more I thought about it, it hit me, retaining walls need forms while the concrete cures (initially anyway). So I'm hoping it is in the top, horizontal surface of the wall.Didn't we decide ("we" as in the BT Community)that Bondo and the Minwax epoxy wood filler are virtually the same. I have some of the minwax product in the truck. Wax, Paste wax? Minwax again for hte table saw.TFB (Bill)
I thought that, too, but then i thought mentioning it was a retaining wall had some significance, like it was rendered or something. Ah, well, it's an easy job now that the print is located back on the horizontal. <G>
I guess i missed the Bondo/Mixway Epoxy discussions. Bondo is so darn cheap, like $15 for a gallon of the stuff. I can't imagine the Minwax stuff beats the price...? I'm not a huge fan of Minwax products and haven't quite forgiven them for coming out with Polyshades, that stain-in-the-filmcoat kee-rap.
PS: Very cool of you to do this, TFB!
Edited 6/18/2008 2:58 pm by splintergroupie
Minwax¯ High Performance Wood Filler 12 Oz. cost $11.22 so a bit more than the Bondo. It is on the shelf by the Bondo at HD.Did a test cast before lunch. I'm back now and will see if I can pop it out. Used the minwax paste wax as a release, we'll see.TFB (Bill)
Is there any reason you prefer it? (Sorry if i missed the discussion where this was all settled. <g>)
PS: I did a site search, but anything i use for a search term with more than one word returns zero replies.
Edited 6/18/2008 5:40 pm by splintergroupie
This may have been the thread
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=78519.16
it's a couple of years old. Who knows I might have been searching for filler info a couple of months ago and came across. I don't know that I prefer it,as I havn't tried Bondo yet. I do like the size of the can, vs 1 gal of bondo. The smaller can takes up less space in the truck and if it fails before I use it up I'm not tossing a big tub of stuff. The next can I buy however will probably be Bondo so that I can compare the two.TFB (Bill)
Thanks for that. I recall beating the Bondo drum years ago and being kidded about it. An Oracle beats a Gurl any day, eh? I think i musta softened 'em up for Piffin... <G>
You can get Bondo in quart cans, too, for space-saving purposes, with a smaller tube of hardener with it.
I've never had Bondo get too old to use, though it sounds like your Minwax product does. I did a repair job on a rotted porch last year using a leftover can of fibered resin i got at a yard sale - you can get long- or short-fibered resin - that looked to be ancient. The stuff worked up fine and the fibers really strengthened the material in the large patch. It was stickier stuff, too; that knife was toast afterward.
I've just now started with the Abatron liquid wood hardener ( shut up_) and the filler epoxy. I LOVE IT and will leave the bondo for auto body. Pricey , but a zillion times more betterer.
The QT kit was 118.00 2 qts liquid, 2 qts, bondo like, and 1 qt acetone..the pint kit is the same but 69.00.
Great stuff.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
At that price, i probably won't be experimenting, but under what conditions is it better?
Where there is wetting and drying cycles and wood movement. I repaired some ornate stuff last year, and the bondo is falling out/separating..the Abatron has more "Give". So far.
Also a MUCH longer pot life / working time. And readily sculpted when soft or cured.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
I once got 2 5 gallon buckets of the Abitron A & B. Over $600, but it really does the job.
I like it a lot, but I hope I never need THAT much.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
That was during my spree of Victorian porch restorations. I get it by the 2 quart package now.
Keep it really sealed up with plastic. Lengthens the shelf life.
Yeah, in reading the lit. that came w/it, it claims a very long shelf life. I may be using a lot more now that I got my feet wet.
I'll take your advice as well.
Hey, gonna be up in West chester, Hatfield and Boyertown next week end..listen for a dog howling!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
My ears are perked, my powder dry, and my step is light. I'll know when the old native is near.
and Jer....thanks very much for the info. I've used Bondo on the face of spalled bricks under an unguttered valley, tooled it to look like it has mortar joints, so i figured it could do anything. I haven't tried to make up for small parts like missing muntins or anythingthat had to take any bearing, though. Maybe our lack of much moisture most of the year is the difference, but it's never fallen out of anything i've stuck it onto. I like the longer working time...lots of times that would certainly have been welcome.
Edited 6/18/2008 8:46 pm by splintergroupie
"Maybe our lack of much moisture most of the year is the difference,"I'll bet dollars to donuts that's the very thing.
I'm gonna pack some in my zero-humidity wrinkles for a quick face-lift. <G>
Wasn't it Queen Elizabeth 1 who wore about a half inch of caked on makeup by the time she died?
Obviously she never visited the House of Splinte in the western lands where Bondo was king and holds tight the wrinkles."Those ambivalent Brits,
their soft lower lip shows..."
Loudon Wainwright
I don't know about Queenie...i'm old, but not THAT old!
With the Abitron there is a two part consolidator penetrator, (WOW! sounds like a new action Hero/villain!), that you paint on first and allow to set. This better preps the material to accept the filler and gaps the differences in the qualities of the two materials. The dough itself is actually more flexible than the Bondo and stays that way even though it does get hard.
Bondo eventually separates from whatever material it's being applied to, not so much inside as it does outdoors. With wood, it's due to the moisture and movement. It may prove better with other materials. I don't use it anymore with wood.
The only difference between bondo and minwax is the color. Sometimes I'm able to get minwax to sort of blend in with oak or pine, using a little stain and artist brushes. That's obviously not possible with bondo.
I always have a can of bondo around, and buy minwax as needed. Have never tried that Abatron stuff. At that price I can't see experimenting with it, but I'd check it out if I ever have need for it.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 6/18/2008 11:25 pm by Ted W.
You can also tint Bondo. I made jewelry boxes with knots in the top panel as one of my woodworking items. If i thought it was a little weak, i'd back up the panel with duct tape and stuff some colored Bondo in the weak spot and tool it to look knot-like. I used the thick glop on the bottom of the stain can for color, but artists colors would work find, too. Use more catalyst.
You have gotten good suggestions, long distance away is a problem. Saddest type of loss, still have our prayers for recovery.... still think about the little girl run over down our street 35 years ago.....
I detest tort lawyers in general, but in your case, since
agreed in the contract that the buyer (a developer) would cut out the handprints to give to us. This has not occurred...
That would really get me po'd..! , just a 10 minute job to cut that out.
I'd try to find the shystiest (there are all kinds of shyter lawyers in TX that advertize on billboards even, must be tons on the net) and tell them that they get the house (and probably the development) if they break or bankrupt the shyster developer............. set one kind of scum against the other.
I know it would leave a bad taste in my mouth doing something like that, but a developer who would screw somebody else over $10 worth of minimal effort on their part would get my ire up.
You did tell the developer of the significance of the handprint, if not, I'd do that first before the nuke/shyster type attack??
Wow, that popped out much easier than I expected.
I can make the casting of the imprint and then you can use it to make a duplicate of the wall.
Send me the address if you are cool with it, I'd be honored to get it for you.
TFB (Bill)
Edited 6/18/2008 8:47 pm by ToolFreakBlue
Way to go, Blue!
Now maybe you should also take a gas wrecking saw with you, just in case you get an inkling for cutting some crete. :)--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Bill,
I really appreciate your generous offer. I talked to my mom, and she wants me to give my brother until the end of the weekend to take care of it. I will let you know by Monday if it is taken care of, or if I need you to do it. Once again, your generosity is overwhelming.
John
OK, Standing by.
TFB (Bill)
I just got word that my brother came through and has made a cast of the handprints. I want to again thank everyone for their input, and you for your incredibly generous offer.
John
Glad it worked out!TFB (Bill)
What, no pictures? :)--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
This is just amazing!
I read and submitted a short reply to this yesterady and now I see where some of you have done "test castings" and are already ready to go and do it for John!
What an amazing group of individuals that hang out here!
My hat is off to all of you...
Mike
@toolfreakblue what did you use to make the impressions? have a similar situation that need almost the same thing
FYI.
All the posts are dated.