Replies

1. 
   basswood | Feb 26, 2006 11:27pm | #1

   If your current configuration is an "L", you could make it a "T" with a two-story addition and keep with the 1880's look. A 2-story w/ basement will give you the most additional s.f. with a minimal increase in footprint.

   If you can add on so that the staircase ends up in a more central location it could even help with "flow".

1. 
   girlbuilder | Feb 27, 2006 01:50am | #3

   I'd be careful about placing a second floor on the existing structure, lest I knew for sure it could handle it. Many of the Vicie era homes around here are framed 2 x 3 rough-sawn. I'd check with an engineer on that.Otherwise, the smarter approach I'd think would be to add some additional space out back, possibly on a frostwall, thereby saving cost of a full foundation but having the advantage of stick building the floor and the problems associated with slabs. Tie in the frostwall to the existing with appropriate anchoring.

1. 
   bassa | Feb 27, 2006 11:11pm | #8

   Thanks for your reply.  Interested that you seem to know about this era of house and its materials.  Don't know your terms - "frostwall", "rough-sawn", "stickbuilding"?  What are the problems associated with slabs? 

   The house already has a second story with fairly high ceilings, but under a pitched roof.  It would probably be possible to add a loft-style space above the 2nd floor ceilings, but the daily climbing aspect of that is not appealing, especially since the existing stair from floor 1 to floor 2 is already so steep.  Since the footprint was so small it didn't make sense to actually add a full THIRD floor - the house would look very bizarre - like a neighborhood skycraper!  

   Very interested in your back addition ideas if I could understand the terms.  Can you refer me to a text or architect or builder to learn about this?  How do I find an expert - an engineer, inspector, architect - to evaluate what's possible structurally before I start thinking about design possibilities in enlarging my house?

2. 
   bassa | Feb 27, 2006 10:54pm | #6

   Sorry, I was unclear in my description, or perhaps have misunderstood your suggestion.  The house is currently a 2-story with a basement.  It's tall and narrow - 2 equal stacked rectangular stories, with an unfinished basement of the same floor dimension.  The first story contains kitchen, bathroom, living room.   Stairway accessed immediately inside the front door goes to 2 small bedrooms and a sitting room on the second floor.   The roof is pitched but no attic.  Basement is accessed though outside bulkhead or trapdoor/stairway underneath the stairway off the kitchen.  

   If I add to the footprint it might change the character of the house utterly.  Unless perhaps the addition is a kind of glass-enclosed semi-porch - "sunroom" - space to one side of the house, which I've considered.  The "T" plan would not work here also because of how the house is situated on the lot.   One side yard is a 10 foot strip and the other side yard is about 25 feet wide and about 15 feet in the back.  The front door is at the very edge of the lot, only a few feet there, but it is well removed from the street, sitting behind 2 large multi-family properties, accessed by a right-of-way.  If the simple rectangular footprint were turned into an "L" I'm afraid it would ruin the character of the house.  

   Thanks for the idea about the stairway.  Not sure whether changing the location would be feasible - it's currently against the side wall of the house.  It's very steep - total footage used is perhaps only half the length of the house, and the space underneath is already in use as storage and as an opening to the basement.   I can imagine that if the stairway were moved to the center of the house and extended the entire width of the house it would be less steep and more significant under-the-stair space could be created.  The bathroom would be under the stairs in that case.  That would feel very good and be aesthetically satisifying too.   It's a bit claustrophic to enter the house and immediately be faced with steep stairs.

   I think I'll need to have an inspection to check the general soundness and strength of the structural design and also an architect who could give me a sense of the cost and exact consequences of moving the staircase.  It sound like such a huge and expensive kind of change. 

1. 
   CapnMac | Feb 28, 2006 06:35am | #14

   because of how the house is situated on the lot.   One side yard is a 10 foot strip and the other side yard is about 25 feet wide and about 15 feet in the back.

   This is something that caught my eye in the first post.  We don't know what limits already exist for your lot.  It could be you are already up against setbacks--if that's so, you can't add anything at all, sun rooms, music rooms, any rooms.

   What you probably ought to do is take a trip to your AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction)--with many, that's just a trip over the internet.  But, without knowing the zoning, permissible use, setbacks, etc., it's all woolgathering.

   That's a tad harsh, I'll admit, but better to know what limits are there, than to find out you can't have what you've managaed to make a dram-come-true.

   Now, before chasing down an architect, I'd be inclined to ask around the local structural engineers to have them give your house a look-see.  It might be you have more structure than you need.  That could mean you have many more options with your interior space than you might expect.  All of this before even looking at which spaces might better suit your life and your house.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   brownbagg | Feb 26, 2006 11:28pm | #2

   Put a sunroom on the back of it.

   . 2+3=7
1. 
   bassa | Feb 27, 2006 10:59pm | #7

   Thanks for this suggestion, I have thought about this.  It would surely free up the interior space and allow me to enjoy the yard.  Because of how the house is situated on the lot I would probably but the room on the side, facing northwest.  Don't know how that would be for sun.  Also wonder what the cost of putting a very energy efficient sunroom would be.  One that can be warm enough to spend time in during cold N.E. winters.  Whether the materials to make it a truly livable space might be wildly expensive.

1. 
   Danno | Feb 27, 2006 11:15pm | #9

   An architect will probably be expensive. A home inspector usually isn't too bad--I hired one once to look at a house I was considering buying. He pointed out three major problems, so I didn't buy it.

   You might try talking to a teacher at a community college and ask for the name of a promising architectural technology (drafting and more) student. I designed a house when I was in school for a couple that had called my teacher. They got a bargain and I got experience (and a little money).

1. 
   girlbuilder | Feb 28, 2006 03:16am | #12

   Frostwall: A sort of foundation wall in miniature. Instead of a 8' or 10' foundation wall being dug for and poured, a frostwall is a poured concrete wall, placed on a poured footing that is well below frost. Around here that means the 8" wall starts at four feet with a twelve inch by twelve inch footing below it. Or some may just pour and form a twelve inch thick wall and have no footing. T'all depends. Like a regular foundation, a sill is run along the wall and then the floor joists and rim joist are placed thusly. Conversely a slab consists of concrete poured over an area excavated only a few inches down. Depending upon the technique preferred, a bed of gravel or sand or both is laid down to so many inches and then the concrete poured over it. Reinforcing is placed in the area, if done right the reinforcing should be placed to sit somewhere in the middle of the pour. The result is a large, usually 4 to 6 inch thick slab of concrete, usually with a deeper 'trench' of concrete on one side. THe top surface is then finished to various degrees of smoothness as desired. This slab is in theory supposed to 'float' that is move with the earth as it heaves and contracts with water saturation and temp changes.But oftentimes, they will crack and move at the cracks, making a real mess and also unless you plan on laying down 'sleepers' and then a subfloor, you will have to deal with the painful fact that concrete floors are hard on the ole feets. I've seen so many slabs fail around here that we as a rule do not spec any builds with them. In many areas around here, inspectors won't allow them anyway.But I am aware that in the south where weather and temp changes are less severe or in the west where moisture is not a big issue, slab are very popular. They are cheaper than a frostwall that's for sure.Stickbuilt means to cut and place rafters and walls, etc. from lumber delivered on the site, without prebuilt panels or trusses. The old way. I say that because stickbuilding is not the only building style available but is the most flexible in many ways (in my mind).Rough sawn refers to lumber as it was commonly used in the ole days before wide spread large lumber operations. The lumber was cut at the saw mill and not dressed and thus a 2 x 3 is in fact a 2 x 3 and there is no nominal differences due to 'dressing' which is the practice of planing the lumber to obtain a smooth finish for sale.Also, the direction of the cut in the wood and the way in which the grain is facing, which I rely on my old timer to know, because I don't know all that stuff, but he does. Anyway, older rough sawn was generally stronger in fiber strength than lumber produced in today's methods.Also of course is the fact that older houses were usually built with green wood (around here) directly from the saw mill, so some shrinkage and nail pops can be found if you look carefully. One fact thought, since I'm on a run here, is that the older the lumber, the stronger the fibers are as older lumber came from older growth trees and thus had more time to develop stronger fibers as opposed to fast growing, quickly cut lumber of today. Also, in many timber framed structures around here, fine old hardwoods such as chestnut were used. An aside: I hear in Cal. Doug Fir is used as regular building material. Around here we worship Doug Fir and pay big dollar for its fine strength and thus use it in special applications where strength is at a premium, or we use pre engineered lumber.Anyway, there is no way that anyone could tell you what is the best route for you to apply to your situation without seeing the house and talking to you about your needs. Both must be considered as well as your area.Like others have said, you can get into 'overbuild' and outbuild the sum value of the house and end up stuck with it should you wish to unload it. Also, you want to make sure you know what your town zoning and setbacks will allow, the laws change often and make sure that whatever you do will fit into the present setbacks and not violate other zoning regs. Variances are always an option. And even tearing down and rebuilding may not be an option either so don't laugh too hard about that my friend. I've seen...well I won't go there.Pick up your phone book and call some engineers. Call your local college that offers courses for engineering, particuarly structural engineering. YOu may find an instructor who also mooonlights as a certified engineer. Make sure you find a professional who is currently certified and licensed in your state, talk to a few.Once you have the structural outline you want, then go find a design firm to draw up some plans for you. They should be able to work up something professional and readable that is congruent with what you want. Architects are a waste of money for typical residential construction and often don't take responsibility for structural issues, which is most important. Get an engineer and a designer or obtain a design on your own and you should have a good idea as to how to proceed.Hope all this wasn't too much info.

3. 
   TomT226 | Feb 27, 2006 01:51am | #4

   Build a dedicated "music room."  That should take care of the big items like the piano, and you could make it acoustically "dead."  You could deduct the construction as a legitimate business expense.  Know a guy that built a 1500 ft. "studio" and deducted 100% of the cost because he gives a few gituar lessons and burns tracks.   Talk to a tax consultant. 

   Most HO's that I run into looking for "space" need storage for everyday items.  Make all your BR vanities 3' tall with pull outs so you can access everything.  Same goes for the kitchen.  Instead of black holes under cabs, put pull outs so you can use all the space. Build storage under stairs.  Don't be a pack-rat....like I am.  :-)

    

    

1. 
   bassa | Feb 27, 2006 10:20pm | #5

   Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply -  I hadn't really considered this aspect of a renovation and it would help so very much to be able to deduct the cost of an addition.  I do give some lessons in my home and use one of the rooms exclusively as command central in maintaining and developing my self-employment as a player and teacher - practicing and rehearsing, phoning/emailing/mailing proposals and generating work, making transcriptions and arrangements at the keyboard for my own chamber music projects and my students.  I'm currently using what should really be my living room for all that. 

   Using every available inch for storage has already been addressed somewhat by the previous owner (some cabinets & built-ins are there), but perhaps an astute designer would find opportunity for more.   I would be thrilled with that  -  I'm not a pack-rat, but I find it hard to stay organized without a designated place (beyond just a file or a box stacked on the floor or table!) for everything.

   Wondering how I would go about finding an affordable architect or designer who would be interested in taking a look?

   A friend has just suggested that I hire an inspector to make sure the sills and all the foundational features of the house are sound.  This because another old ice-house down the street (both of these houses were moved from their pond-side original sites to a residential neighborhood a mile away around 1900) was discovered to have sill problems while in the process of being sold recently.   I have no reason to think this is the case with my house - although there's been a little settling in the walls and floors and ceilings, there's never been any leaks or water in the basement.  Complete inspection seems like a good idea - especially to do this BEFORE investing in any major renovations.  I am concerned about finding a reliable inspector, and wonder what a thorough inspection would cost.  

4. 
   Hazlett | Feb 27, 2006 11:17pm | #10

    bassa,

    I hesitate to suggest this------

    but it might be less expensive over-all to simply move to a bigger place.

    I owned a pretty small house for 20 years----- several years ago my next door neighbor put on an addition--basically a first floor master bedroom and a bathroom--- not a tremendous amount of space---and ok but not tremendous workmanship.

    the cost of his existing house---plus the addition -----exceeds what I paid to buy a house   last spring about 2 1/2 times the size of his place--- same neighborhood---about 6 blocks away.

   also----( probably not feasible)------ but  I have seen several times in the right neighborhood( semi- bohemian LOL) situations where people own 2 or 3 houses next door to one another------- living in one and running a pottery business/art studio/ gallery operation  out of 1 or 2 others

    at any rate you might have several options besides the immediately obvious one of adding on to the current house

    some of the options might actually be cheaper AND better.

    Explore all the options

    Best of luck, Stephen

    BTW--- my son is a young musician/student. sounds like you are leading the life he aspires to. Congrats and VERY best wishes to you

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/27/2006 3:20 pm ET by Hazlett

1. 
   rasher | Feb 27, 2006 11:43pm | #11

   I second the suggestion that you consider moving to a larger house. My wife bought a seriously distressed house in a neigborhood we love and after busting a$$ for five years on a shoestring budget, we often wonder what would have happened if we'd just torn the thing down and built a new house with everything we wanted on the existing lot. Probably would have cost us the same as what we're into our existing house for and without all of the headaches...

5. 
   BryanSayer | Feb 28, 2006 05:06am | #13

   Along the lines of moving, have you ever looked into formerly industrial or commercial space? We have several buildings in my neighborhood that were once general stores or hardware stores, that people have turned into home/professional space. These buildings tend to have big open spaces, and you can divide however you want.

   Old neighborhoods often have interesting spaces that were not homes. Back when an integrated neighborhood meant having the stuff you needed near by, not at the mega-mall on the out skirts of town.