Hi,
I hired a contractor to build two stone walls at two properties. We signed the first contract with the terms of 1/3 down, 1/3 halfway, and 1/3 on completion. Fine. He started the work at the pace of 3 hours a day, 3 days per week (initially he said the whole job would be two weeks, but there was no time limit in the contract). After about 3 weeks, he said he could bring another crew out to work on the second job simultaneously and finish faster. Fine, we draw up the second contract at half down and half upon completion (this was a smaller job for $3200, the first job was $7800). So I give him the $1600 for job#2, don’t see him for two weeks, and no second crew shows up. He comes back and does maybe 3 days work on job#1 and asks me for his second draw on Job#1 before the halfway point because he has to get his truck repaired. Even though I had big red flags concerning it, I gave him $600 advance on the second draw. Again he is gone a week or so and no work on Job#2. Finally he reaches the halfway point on Job#1 and asks for the remainer of the draw ($1800). So I get mad and tell him he has $1600 from job#2 and never started it. He goes on about them being on separate contracts and yada yada, so I give him the remainder of draw #2. He takes a two week vacation and this past week and a half has worked feverishly to finish Job#1, still no work on Job#2.
At this point I’m ready to fire him on Job#2 and deduct the $1600 I gave him over there from the final draw on Job#1. I wanted input from anyone who has had a similar situation. I don’t see anything unethical about it and i’m pretty sure his contract wouldn’t stand up anyway should he decide to take me to court. The quality of his work is OK, but I’m not happy about signing the contract and giving a deposit for Job#2 when I don’t believe he ever had the intention of starting it. Also I don’t like that he said the job would take two weeks and dragged it out 3 months. In actuality it did take two weeks of man hours, but he spread that two weeks out over a three month span.
Let me know what you would do.
Thanks.
Jon
Replies
Deduct the 1600 from payment 3 and give him his walking papers.
BTW, i am a stonemason. Done plenty of stone walls and it's some of the hardest work to do in the construction business. Sounds like this guy might be spread a bit too thin.
If he didn't follow the contract for job 2 the way it was written, what's the problem.
You can always let him do job 2, after job 1 is finished, just do under different payment terms. 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is SOP.
Rod
Amen to that.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
If I read this right, so far you have paid a contractor $6,800.00 and he has done $5,200.00 worth of work. Exactly what makes you think he will every show up again. If you ask for your $1,600 back do you really think he still has it? You are screwed, call him every hour asking for the money back or work preformed. After 2 days file a suit. Document everything and expect nothing you hired a loser.
He probably vacationed in Cancun on your dime too bad you didn't enjoy it as much as he did.
Yeah, I suspect he goes around getting contracts and initial deposits and then shows up for whomever is screaming the loudest at the time.
That is a good idea however, to deduct the $1600 from his last draw on this job and then see if he wants to re-enter the second job at 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. I know how strenuous stone masonry is, I've done it myself. He works hard when he works. Like I said, he has done about two man hour weeks worth of work in three months.
I like the idea of redoing the second contract, that will give me the flexibility to write more clauses into it and see if he really wants the work.
Thanks for the input.
Jon
Cut the dirt bag loose what are you thinking? By the way if you need any work done give me a shout! 50% down and 50% upon showing up are my terms...... hope you get your moneys worth out of that joker!
Jon,
If I understand correctly, you're in the hole about $1600 with this guy.
It also sounds like you're primarily frustrated with the slow pace of work he is doing. Before burning bridges, I'd have a frank discussion with him about your expectations, including time lines. It's more than likely that he has stretched himself too thin. And you know the old expression: the squeaky wheel gets the grease. See if you can get him to focus on YOUR project and get the damn thing done!
Anyway, I'd definitely try some open communication and firm urging before cutting him loose. I may be overly optimistic, but it doesn't sound like it's too late for this thing to work out.
Best of luck to you,
Ragnar
Thanks for the advice, I don't think this guy would run out on me, but I think he would take another 3 months to finish Job#2 and I just don't sit well with being in the hole to him $1600 and him not being in any particular rush to finish, although I told him explicitly that I wanted him out there every day until the job was complete.
I still think the best solution is to take the $1600 out of his last draw and let him 're bid' for Job#2. Especially considering the fact that the primary reason I contracted this job out instead of doing it myself was to get it completed before Thanksgiving...
Thanks again.
Jon
Well Thanksgiving is 11 months from now. What's the rush?
-Peter
Facism is a farce of itself.
jon... you and him are linked at the hip.... the work is (ok )... the price is ok..
the progress is not... but it isn't hurting anything.. so... 3 months from now you could both be smiling..if you don't burn your bridges..
if you fire him , you might be in the hole... and you still won't have your 2d wall..
lots of the stone masons here drag things out... especially the one man guys... one guy comes and lives in your outbuildings... for months...
anyways... so far you ain't doin bad... a little more of the patience you've exhibited so far could get you a good outcome.... or you can burn the bridge and start over with someone different...
but stone masons who go zip... zip... zip... are few and far between..
here's one i did ... the first 50' took about 2 weeks..... finished the last 150 ' last summer... 16 years later.....
the pros around here... most of them ... will spend anywhere's from 3 weeks to two years on some of these walls....
the 2d one about 3 weeks by local pro
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike,
I would never rush the guy as long as he did quality work and I have considered that there really is no time constraint to finishing the second wall. But I think he should have told me the realistic time frame instead of all this big talk about knocking it out in two weeks. Do what you say, say what you do.
When we had our first discussion where I told him I wasn't happy with the work schedule of 3 hours a day every three days and that he hadn't started on Job#2 yet, he countered with why don't I offer him a bonus to finish early. I also don't want any contractor at my house to have any incentive to take shortcuts in order to finish early. I will be patient with anyone that is making an honest effort do to honest work.
I also don't mind paying the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Being a first time homeowner, this threw me for a loop as I previously considered that any business should charge upon completion of the work. I guess it depends on the outfit, I had the house rewired at $2900 and paid nothing before completion. I also got central air installed at $3200 and paid nothing before completion. But I think it depends on the individual or business.
Like I said, I don't mind advances, but I will be even more adamant that the contractor tows his line. The first job is always a matter of trust and me paying the advance makes me the one "extending the trust".
But there are no bridges burned here thus far, we will have a good talk (he's 95% finished with Job#1 and already asking for the last draw).
Thanks again for the advice.
Jon
You sound more than reasonable and your concerns are very real. I would treat you like gold if you where my customer.
As you mentioned earlier that red flag went up when he told you about his truck breaking down and he needed money to fix it. It is quite obvious this guy is one step away from going out of business. He probably has nothing in his business account (If he has one at all) and jumps from job to job securing deposits and advances to create cash flow. You know his game and now must make a decision. My first reaction was to cut this guy and let him walk, I just hate guys that take advantage of people and there kindness. But at this point considering all the good and bad, I would go with Mikes recommendations. Get your money's worth from him, and when the job is complete you will have the experience and knowledge to deal properly with the next contractor that attempts to play the same game. "Don't take life too seriously, you are not getting out of it alive"
I'm curious how you found this contractor and how much each of your bids were. Please tell us how much this guys bid was in comparison to the others. I'm not picking on you, I'm just trying to verify my suspisions that perhaps he was a little cheaper than the rest.
This contractor came highly recommended from a neighbor who had seen his work at a friends house. In my further discussions with my neighbor, he said his friends told him that this guy took forever to complete their job. I don't know about the advances and such, but we were well underway at this point and I had given him $4600 and he had done only 2 days work.
I didn't receive any other bids for a granite wall which is what he laid. I did get bids of $25 per sqft for large mountain stone. When this guy came out he said he could do the same stone for $19 per sqft, but that he could do granite for $10 per sqft because he had a very cheap source for the granite. When he brought the first load of rock out, I saw why, they were broken tombstones. There is a manufacturer near his location and he gets the broken stones and off cuts from them.
So was he the cheapest bidder, of course, but if he has a dirt cheap source on the stone, he might be making just as much profit as the other guys.
I'm not trying to trash him, I just wanted to get the opinions from the contractor's point of view. I actually just got off the phone with him, he has finished everything except grouting, and guess what, he wants his last draw, because running the grout will "only take an hour".
Ha
just playing devils advocate, could weather be an issue ( with mortar not doing good in sub freezing temps )
probably just over extended. I would talk to him just to find out what's up, just be blunt and ask what the delay is. if the reason is not plausible fallow the recommendation of previous posters.
Too late now, unless you reneg job#2, but I like preformance clauses something like this:
You: "How long will the job take?" Him: "2 weeks." You:"Okay, I'll pay you the bid price if you finish in four weeks. For every week early, you get an extra $100. For every week late (after 4 weeks), $100 is deducted." Viola' you are now always the "squeaky wheel" without making a phone call. He'll prioritize your job initially to get that free, extra money. And continue to push after the deadline because he's losing more money every week.
Of course this only works if it's a guy who works (versus taking vacations). When the guy disappears after a deposit and starts coming up with stories about the truck breaking down and the dog eat the materials, etc, I start assuming some serious drug use. (If it quacks like a duck. . . .).
I'd definitely fire him on the job he never started (he'd never win in court on that one.) and deduct that advance from job #1 if he ever gets to a point of having more work done than money in his pocket. CHECK WITH SUPPLIERS THAT THEY'VE BEEN PAID. Screw-up guys like this often don't bother with those details which come back to huant YOU, not him, because you actually have 1) money, 2) an address, and 3) some mortared stones on your property.
Not always true, but I've found a very high correlation between contractors that do not need any money up front and do great, timely work. Versus those who have to get "money for materials" and take their sweet time and/or do bad work.
Under about $300,000, I've never bothered with payment schedules, just monthly billings; but my clients have always been above-board, solvent, and almost always repeat customers. And needing an advance seems an admission that you can't manage your money. (Engineering services, not masonary).
Under about $300,000, I've never bothered with payment schedules, just monthly billings;
Nice work, Dave, if you can get it. The reality is, for most of us, a contract is necessary, and payment schedules are central to the contract. If a client misses a payment, contractor has the right to stop work. And is a fool if he doesn't.
...but my clients have always been above-board, solvent, and almost always repeat customers. And needing an advance seems an admission that you can't manage your money.
My business is my expertise, skill and labor as a remodeling contractor. I charge for those appropriately. That's how I make a living. I'm not a bank, a credit company, or a home improvement materials vendor. If you need money, get a loan. And call me when you've got the check. But don't ask to borrow my time, my resources, or my creditline. I consider that rude. Most contractors would agree with me that an "advance" is nothing but a good-will deposit which allows the client to put his money where his signature is. A customer unwilling to make a downpayment on his own materials for his home improvement project is probably a shyster. Most folks know that if I, as a contractor, walk away with their deposit, I will quickly be put out of business. Contrarily, folks also know if they get a few weeks labor and a few thousand dollars of materials installed in their home and then decide not to make a payment, the contractor (that's me) is basically SOL. I'm not that foolish, and any client that can't or won't trust me with a DP is not the client I want to do business with.
An initial deposit has nothing to do with being "able to manage one's money". Rather, it has everything to do with running a proper contracting business.
Ohwa!
Well spoken!
Suntoad,
You took the woods right outa my mouth ,under $300,000 and no down money or payment schedules,yea right.Vince Carbone
RIGHT ON THE $ & WELL PUT!
Ray Marzorati
http://www.probiltinc.com
Edited 1/3/2003 6:57:42 AM ET by probiltinc.com
Suntoad: I realize deposits are the norm for small jobs in the big city. And I accept your point about not wanting to be a bank. More significant, I think, is the contractor's avoidance of rip-off-artist customers or at least avoiding getting burned too badly.
But when I'm the customer and my choice is between a contractor in a POS truck who needs money to buy materials versus one who has a functional truck and the financial fluidity to add up invoices and timesheets once a month and bill me, who do I go with? Admittedly, he knows of me, my wife, our jobs, etc. And that I'll whip out my checkbook the minute he hands me an invoice.
Vince, "$300,000 and no down money or payment schedules,yea right." Yeah, really. Bill it monthly, $5,000 to $20,000 at a time. Different type of contracting, as I pointed out. If you hire an engineer to do some structural calcs for you, how would you feel about advancing him the money for the computer program to do so? Or advancing a surveyor gas money, rental on a transit, and the rod man's wages? It would give me pause. I often pay deposits in advance, especially to small outfits. Sometimes everything goes fine, but other times it doesn't. I've never had a problem with a contractor who bills me after the work is done, it is even more in their interest to do a good job and keep me happy.
Could the whole construction industry work that way? Of course not. Few people can keep on even two months living expenses in the bank for a rainy day. Fewer still get ahead enough to finance a small business. Yet many of those people are highly skilled, hardworking and build a lot of good houses. But JONBYRD would be a lot happier now if he'd had my favorite financial-solvent GC running his job.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Under about $300,000, I've never bothered with payment schedules, just monthly billings; but my clients have always been above-board, solvent, and almost always repeat customers. And needing an advance seems an admission that you can't manage your money. (Engineering services, not masonary).
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska,
David , maybe I misunderstood, we're building a house as we speak,$20,000,excavating and driveway $15,000 foundation,first lumber delivery 25,000.Plumbing ,electrical and everything else,when is it ok for me to ask for some money,Because i don't want them to think that I don't know how to manage money.
Ok I'm poking a little fun, all this was spelled out pryer to ever breaking ground.Down payments,draws at specified times as each aspect of the contract is fulfilled and inspected by the bank.
I pay my subcontractors when their complete I don't make them wait for the draws.Vince Carbone
Vince: Poke away. Bill however your contract dictates. My preference as the customer or as the general is to have hours and bills of materials presented after the work is done. As often as desired/needed. Once a week if money is tight. Once a month if the guy wants to do all his paperwork at the end of the month. I actually do spot-check the details on the invoice (was Anthony on the job for about 5 hours that day?, is that about the right amount of 11-1/4" TJIs, etc.) Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 items. A lot more if I start find discrepancies.
Rather than monthly, I actually prefer grouping tasks together. Finished the earthwork? Bill it all together. Next invoice after the foundation is in place. It helps educate the customer (and more importantly, the contractor) how much each stage costs. The contractor gets to double check his estimate for each phase of the job.
And again, I realize asking for money for materials is common, but it is not universal. It makes a lot of sense, especially if the customer pays the supplier directly. On my own house, we never had a contract with anyone. Sloppy business, perhaps, but in a small town, a handshake, a sketch on a napkin and your reputation (both parties') suffices.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Suntoad:
>>My business is my expertise, skill and labor as a remodeling contractor. I charge for those appropriately. That's how I make a living. I'm not a bank, a credit company, or a home improvement materials vendor. If you need money, get a loan. And call me when you've got the check. But don't ask to borrow my time, my resources, or my creditline. I consider that rude. Most contractors would agree with me that an "advance" is nothing but a good-will deposit which allows the client to put his money where his signature is. A customer unwilling to make a downpayment on his own materials for his home improvement project is probably a shyster. Most folks know that if I, as a contractor, walk away with their deposit, I will quickly be put out of business. Contrarily, folks also know if they get a few weeks labor and a few thousand dollars of materials installed in their home and then decide not to make a payment, the contractor (that's me) is basically SOL. I'm not that foolish, and any client that can't or won't trust me with a DP is not the client I want to do business with.
An initial deposit has nothing to do with being "able to manage one's money". Rather, it has everything to do with running a proper contracting business.<<
While most contractors might agree with you, the rest of the world probably doesn't. (I'm not assuming you care, of course.) You don't want to be a bank? Guess what, neither does the customer. Where is the guarantee that the downpayment is going to go to pay for the customer's materials, rather than the materials paid for on your credit line from your previous job that went into the hole bigtime? Could be that the contractor that NEEDS or demands the downpayment has a higher likelihood of being the "shyster".
You talk about trust. Yet this seems to be very one-sided. You *expect* to be trusted with a downpayment and won't trust anyone who won't give you one. Otherwise you are unwilling to trust that the customer will pay YOU. (This notion of "entitlement" to be trusted, before the job even starts, is very curious....)
A DP has NOTHING to do with running a proper contracting business. Here in California (more contractors per capita than anywhere else, I believe), it is ILLEGAL to ask for or take more than 10% or $1000 as a downpayment -- whichever is LESS. Further, at no time other than this downpayment is the contractor to ask for more than the value of the work actually performed. It's a very simple principle: Do the work-- get paid. While this is routinely violated, plenty of contractors have no trouble running a profitable business within the law.
The solution which should keep everyone happy, is also simple. Get paid frequently. Weekly, if necessary. And don't keeping working without getting paid. If your financial butt is extremely exposed because you can't get it together to bill more often, well, THAT has everything to do with running a proper contracting business.
Richard (donning flame-retardant clothing)
Greetings Rich,
You may remove your flame-suit, I'm confident enough in my position to discuss this without spewing firey venom.
No doubt--no one wants to be the financer. Each expects to give a little, and assume a little (trust). But what you failed to point out was that the contractor has the handicap in this relationship. The client always has the upper hand (as I've already pointed out). Yes, it's true that simple-minded folks are suckered by low-lifes posing as contractors all the time. But that's because they're naive. I can't help that. People who wish to hire a contractor and inject large sums of money into a project should at least familiarize themselves with the process (contracts). Do most people bother to read the contract they sign with a bank when they are buying a house? Only because they are forced to. BTW, almost no bank will let a buyer walk away with the keys to his new house without a fat down payment and a bunch of "fees" paid up front. Why is that?
Here's how I guarantee it: I come well recommended. I offer a tight contract which keeps both parties in check. I stand to lose my shirt and my business if I breach it. Further, I offer the client the option of paying for his materials himself, directly to the vendor who guarantees delivery to their property. I suppose I do business a bit differently in this arena, but I do not buy anything on credit. I have a constant, healthy cash sum in my account at all times, I do not have employees (a single partner), I have NO business debt (or personal debt for that matter), and very little overhead (less than $500 per month). I own my tools, I own my vehicles, and I own my reputation. This way, I can't be "in the hole" from the previous job.
I don't ask for any money up front on small jobs (less than $2,000). But, the one time I was deliberately stiffed, with malice of forethought, was by a wealthy contractor, who hired us to do a 2 day punch-list job. His wife violently balked at signing our contract (short version). I should not have ignored that red light (it was the only time anyone ever balked at a contract). When it came time for payment, she casually handed us a check with a smile, knowing that she'd already put a stop payment on it. How's that for underhandedness? That was payback for making her sign a contract. Turns out they already had a multitude of liens on almost all of the many properties they owned. So, yea. It's about trust.
Well, no, and yes. Contracts customarily require a measure of good faith on the part of the buyer--this is know as a down payment. Mortgage companies might call this earnest money. A cursory read of a any text on contract law history will enlighten. And I do subscribe to the "pay as we work concept"--always. That's how I minimize my risk, and it is clearly spelled out as such in my contract (I cannot even ask for the next payment until certain obligations which are spelled out therein have been fulfilled). But, initially, the client does risk that I will walk away with his deposit, while, at the tail end of the job, I risk not getting my last payment. The last payment is always the largest; the contractor has very little legal remedies available in the event of nonpayment, thus WE incur the greater risk, not the client.
Agreed. But add to that: don't go into debt for $8,000 of the client's building materials on day one. Make him pay for that. That way, when you get stiffed at the end of the week, you're only out your labor minus a reasonable signing deposit.
Works for me. My clients never complain about this set up.
I met the contractor tonight, gave him his last draw and he promised to grout the stone tomorrow. I still extended him trust, but I did deduct the down payment for job#2 from the final draw and voided the second contract. We had a good discussion which ended on a handshake.
I don't think you should liken the contracting business to the mortgage business. The mortgage company is taking a far larger risk by writing a check for 100,000+ based on just some paperwork like a credit score. If you can't come up with a down payment, you probably won't pay the loan, simple as that.
Lessons learned.. Next time I will graduate the payments. I can offer to pay for initial materials. I hesitated to speak frankly, but I have always considered that any company who can't bill upon completion of the job shouldn't be dealt with. But I'm on the customer side of the fence and I want to know both sides. I also understand that a good craftsman is not necessarily a good businessman to no fault of his own (I'm a #### craftsman but I can manage my finances). So to that end, if he needs non-standard paying arrangements, fine. A good example is my stone guy. I itemized all the payments and work for job#1 and outlined that I was deducting the $1600 from job#2 and he STILL thought i only owed him the remaining $1600 to finish job#2. That's ok, I don't expect my stone mason to be able to do math. But I did not take advantage of him and paid him every dime owed to him even though he hasn't finished.
As for paying often, I have another contractor who does interior renovations for me and I pay him daily. He is hand to mouth but does great work and I like the idea that if we are in the middle of a job and he disappears, we are even where we left off. In fact, you often find that people who are gifted in one respect are very limited in another (such as Einstein forgetting his way home). Fair enough. I don't want to miss the opportunity to have a fine craftsman do work for me simply because he can't manage his money or drinks it all away.
It all worked out though and I appreciate the input.
Jon
Jonbyrd,
re: I have always considered that any company who can't bill upon completion of the job shouldn't be dealt with
From my side of the fence I find this statement disturbing, if not down right insulting.
I am a one man band with a wife and 3 children to support, and I do consider myself to be knowledgeable of my trade, and I believe that I deliver a quality service and product. Been in business over 20 years and have gotten all my work thru word of mouth. So I'm happy to say that not everyone feels the way you do, for if that were the case, I'd be out of work.
IMO, if it's a job that might take a week, fine, you pay materials, I'll labor a week, then pay me. Then if ya stiff me, I'm out a weeks wage, and learned another lesson.
If it's a job that may take several weeks, then we'd have to set up a reasonable pay schedule based on work progression.
I don't believe that just because I may not have money in the bank to carry me thru your job, that that makes me unfit to do the job, much less even be considered for the job.
And even if I could carry you, why in the world would I subject myself to such liability. It makes absolutely no sense.
Now remember,
I'm speaking from the voice of a one man band. Certainly there are big branded companies that can and will carry a job. But most one man companies can not afford to.
Nor should they.
And that, my friend, should not get them excluded from even being considered for the job.
In my 20 years I've gone from just me working, then had a helper for 3 years, then had 8 guys working for awhile, (ugh, talk about babysitting), then back down to just me, and now and then I join up with other one man outfits to do bigger jobs. Should I pay the other guys from my pocket for your job? Not if I'm going to survive.
From my side of the fence.................................................. Rod
Rod,
You didnt' quote the next line after I discussed the idea that any company that can't perform the work and bill afterwards shouldn't be dealt with. In fact if you read this entire thread, you will see that I extended more trust to this contractor than he deserved.
The case in point is that in current corporate America, you work first then get paid. However I have shown in this post that I believe in making exceptions for the simple reason that the best damn stone mason around shouldn't necessarily be the best businessman.
I'll let you guys know if he shows up to grout the wall tomorrow. If I were a betting man, I would say he won't show since he just got paid, but then, I hope I'm wrong.
Thanks
Jon
Jonbyrd,
I have read this entire thread with great interest, in fact I was the first to respond to your question.
And yes, you have unquestionably extended far more trust to this fella than was warranted, that I agree. As others have stated, if you were my customer I'd have bent over backward to warrant such trust and patience. However, you're thinking is a bit tweaked on the one man band issue, and I felt the need to respond. I need the work as much as the six man outfit around the corner.
You asked for opinions from the other side of the fence.
Construction business is not "corporate" business, so you don't have to make "exceptions", because you're working under a different set of rules, for lack of a better word.
A big part in construction is the ability of the contractor to educate the customer.
Rod
jon... been on my own since '75..
1st principles:
no deposit... no contract
when the job starts. we work with the customer's money, not mine.... my working capital is what keeps the company in business.... the customer's capital is what keeps the job going...
just like a mortgage... you want the best rate.... give a higher deposit... want the worst rate... try no money down
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Well like I said, I don't mind paying deposits regardless of how I think it should be done. I've attached some photos of the work.
Thanks again all.
Jon
jon.. looks great... i think you got a keeper...hell, i'd probably even buy him lunchMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Man he did the walls and the driveway for 7800$ including the stone I'll say you got the bargain of the century.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
It ended up being $9100 since the driveway was wider than calculated in the estimate and the wall was half a foot higer. I still think it's not bad with the driveway, I'm happy.
So, WHAT HAPPENED? Did he show up and finish? You shudda had him put up a wall to hide that blue tarp house next door.........Joe H
He did finally finish last week. However I gave him my out of state check for the final draw and the next day he called saying his rock supplier was furious with him because he owed her $600 and that she was coming to my house. Apparently he worked it out with her because she never came. Haha..
I totally agree with you on this. I work 100% on reputation. The 50% deposit I require for projects( I'm a cabinet/ furniture maker) gets you a place in line. The deposit covers 100% materials and whatever is left is credit towards labor. The other half of the money comes at the completion of the job. If the client doesn't want to work with my terms, they are free to go with someone else. Period. I don't let clients look over my shoulder at invoices for materials, I don't tell them what I pay my employees, it's really none of their bussiness. I give them a flat fee, take it or leave it.
Damn straight.
Amen!Ray Marzorati
http://www.probiltinc.com
Just another doofus wanna be contractor who hasn't learned the importance of "customer relations"........I would take him to task on this in an honest face to face meeting (you need to take control of the situation cause he's lost)
You make the rules and use the extra money as leverage . . . DON"T give him anymore until he's finished . . . he doesn't know how to play the game . . . he needs to hire out to a REAL contractor and make everybody happier, himself included.
GONE! Period
Ray Marzorati
http://www.probiltinc.com
Edited 1/3/2003 6:59:54 AM ET by probiltinc.com
As a former contractor I found myself in a similar postion as your stone mason. A customer put down 1/3 project cost and I took way longer to complete the work than I said. My business was going down the tubes and I couldn't handle the work anymore.
That being said, as a matter of integrity, I refunded his deposit and felt embarrassed that I was not able to perform to my word. Stone work is difficult and labor intensive, but keeping your word in business is everything. I never had the nerve to ask for more money on projects that were not completed.
Best of luck to you!
Hi jon,
This advice may not help with your current problem, but you may be able to use it before hiring another contractor. I am a contractor and I use these rules in reverse. Before I work for some one I also interview them and feel them out. My first rule is to never hire someone or work for someone without a personal referral from a trusted acquaintance. Rule two, if you have any reservations then hire a person to do a smaller job first. This way you can build your confidence in the contractor before committing to a large project. Never pay money up front. I always ask for a check after materials are delivered to the job site, unless we are special ordering material( then I have to have it up front). Ask for references. Talk to some of the people that a prospective contractor has worked for in the past. Judge upon appearance. If the contractor drives up in a rusted out truck with beer cans in the back and smelly clothes on DO NOT HIRE HIM OR HER (BIG RED FLAG ON THIS ONE). Set up a prejob meeting with a prospective contractor and see how punctual he/she is. Spend some time looking for a qualified and respectable contractor. Also please remember that the lowest price is not always the lowest price in the long run.