how to replace sash cords in old windows
bigbob0808
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I own a house built in the 1930’s in Baltimore and need to replace the sashcords in some of the windows. Friends of mine have tried unsuccessfully to do this without removing the trim from the windows and they have really made a mess of their project. My brother who does construction is coming from out of town to do this for me. However, he has no experience fixing sashcords in windows (frames an excellent house, though so he is experienced at working on other aspects of construction).
My question is this: where can I go to learn how to fix the sashcords while doing the least damage to my house/ walls/ windows? There is no plate in the side of the window that gives me access to the point where the cord connects to the window.
Thanks!
Replies
CAnt tell ya where on the web to go, but the sash and parting bead, and weight cover ALL come out.
Have fun.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Go away rain.
as for ref sites, I don't know, but it's been about 20 years since I did this last...
There should be a section on either side of the window (where the window slides up & down) that is removable, maybe held in with a screw, might be painted over covered with filler. You should be able to see the weights after that. Make your chord length a bit shorter than original to compensate for stretch.
Thanks for your note; I can get to the weights but I haven't been able to figure out how to attach the sash cord to the window without removing the trim and the window itself. Can you tell me more?
You HAVE to remove at least one side of the stop bead to get the sash out, and a parting bead in the center for the uppper sash usually.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Go away rain.
Thank you for your input.
I am not sure of your terminology (I am a novice) so don't know what a stop bead is. Can you tell me more?
The stop bead is the one against the inside/roomside of the sash, behind the sash and between the upper and lower runs a rectangular Parting bead.
The stop is useally just nailed on ( caked with finish, use a few slim putty knives and fatter flar bars, to pry it free).
The parting bead is likley in a groove, and almost always breaks when you pry it out, it is about 3/8th" by 7/8" rectangular stock, can still be had at some places, or very easy to make.
When the stop bead is free, use pliers to remove the nails by pulling from the BACK side, less blow out of paint from the heads, then hammering them back out.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Go away rain.
Thank you all for your input.
My brother and I will try to work on this when he gets here. I really appreciate everybody's answers--this has helped a lot.
Here's a little animated video that shows how to do it step by step.
http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35720601
Here's another video from This Old House.
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/doorswindows/article/0,26206,1186806,00.html
Edited 10/17/2006 9:25 pm ET by Stuart
big, if you replace with rope, use sash cord-rated and pounded for weight of window sash. Do not use nylon rope thinking it'll last longer. The nylon will stretch and the weights will be sitting on the bottom of the chase-or will impede the window opening.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
do you know of a supplier for larger than common sizes of sash cord? -
I used to be able to go to a local hardware and get 1/2" cord by the foot off the big roll - went there a while ago and the display was gone, and sash cord consisted of 3/8" in hanks, just like everywhere else -
"there's enough for everyone"
There's a family small chain hdwr in Toledo that still carries it, the Ace in Bowling Green and the, again-small area Gordon Lumber co's here. All have the thinner and thicker cord.
And our camping box has several 20 ft sections. Great for tying of the 20 x 40 blue tarp pavillion.
You need some, I can make a call and see if there's still the double packs on the shelves.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Edited 10/18/2006 6:09 am ET by calvin
You need some, I can make a call and see if there's still the double packs on the shelves.
ya - let me do a little checking to confirm the diameter - I'll be in touch - - thanks - "there's enough for everyone"
I'll stick a postit note on the thermos.
Don't forget to remind me.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Check-out http://www.aresource.com. They have all sorts of old window hardware, as well as sash cord and chains.
1/2" sash cord????? What size were the sashes???? 4x8?????
I would think that would be extremely bulky to work with...
1/2" sash cord????? What size were the sashes????
~4'X5' - they are heavy - the good cotton braided sash cord is very supple and is not a big deal to work with -
"there's enough for everyone"
Nothing especially sacred about "sash cord", other than it's stretch and abrasion resistant more than regular rope. Don't use nylon (too stretchy), but polyester (Dacron) rope should be a good substitute. (After all, it's what sailboats use.)I suspect that true sash cord is going the way of buggy whips.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Save yourself a LOT of agony, grief and regret, and use chain instead of rope. Yes, it costs more, but it is so much easier to work and will last forever.
In my house, the weight pockets and pulleys are filled with and covered with 130 years of dirt, dust, and grit. The first window I installed with nice new expensive sash rope was dirty and stained after only a few cycles. After I switched to chain, the dirt was not an issue any more. Worth the expense just for that.
Quick tip: I using chain, you will always cut the right length if you just take the rough opening height, divide by two, and add 12". Therefore my windows ROs are 66" high, so I cut 45" of chain and call it good.
Decent rope will last 20-50 years. Vacuuming the pockets will help keep things clean.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Yeah, I vaccuumed the pockets, cleaned and cleaned the pulleys and all that and my ropes still ended looking like crap 3 months later. Worth the $$$ to me to swap out with chain. Installation is twice as fast, looks good, sounds good, yields smoother operation, all of my house guests are impressed, and no risk of breakage and/or dirtiage. My choice was $40 worth of sash cord or $200 worth of brass chain on a $5000 replace/rehab project. $160 extra to NEVER EVER have to mess with it again is tolerable.
http://www.kilianhardware.com/sashchain.html has pretty good prices and I see that now they have a great sale on brass chain going. It's where I bought my chain from.
I'm not positive I'm remembering this exactly right, but I think the length formula is distance from top of sash knot hole plus height of sash plus 2 inches.I'm also not sure if it works when the two sashes are different heights or not.
Good point about uneven sash heights. Mine are even, and my knot hole is about 10 inches from the top. Hence my formula.
Note: The reason for the calculus is because a rope/chain that is too short or too long (and there is probably only a +/- of 4 inches or so) will yield nothing but misery.
Basically, you want it as short as possible while still assuring that the weight won't "top out" with the sash all the way down. Keeping it on the short side gives you room for rope stretch and knots tightening up.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Maybe a little heat shrink used for wires to link the old & new chords together to pull over the pulley? Maybe stitch some small wire through the two to ensure their temp marriage? Mayve one of those woven cable things that don't let go of your finger when they pull tight (I think elctricians may use these for pulling wires??) (used to use one for replacing rear main seals on my trans am).
Usually there is a piece of the frame that will come out to access the weight. Probably it's covered with a lot of paint. On the rare occasion there won't be an access in which case you will either need to remove the window casing to get to the weight, or unscrew the sheeves at the top of the window and use a coat hanger to fish for the weight. When you snag it pull it up to the hole where the sheeve was and attach your new cord, or better, a chain. You will need to free up the parting bead and stop molding to get out the sashes to attach the other side of the cord or chain. Good luck.
You have to remove the sash.
If you want to see how it's done call the window doctor out to do 1... and watch very carefully.... he's about the best you'll find in Baltimore... I worked for him for awhile and learned more about windows then the average person needs to know.
And he's going to replace those cords with chain.
Edited 10/17/2006 9:00 pm ET by sledgehammer
In my area, only a few upper class homes had the removable panel.
In Baltimore, it'll be cold, but what I did was:
Remove the sash trim with your thin putty knife;
Romove the parting bead. It'll break, don't worry, it's a normal piece of trim buyable in almost every well equipped lumberyard;
If you don't have the little "window" in the frame, go outside and pry off the exterior trim. This will expose the sash weights and cords;
Make sure you have bought proper sash cord. It's expensive, but nothing else will realy do, since everything else will fail faster;
Get some rigid insulation - 1½" works great, and cut to size of the enclosure. Put it in first, right against the interior trim;
Knot the cord on the weight, cut off about 4 feet and feed it through the pully. Do all the window weights. Go inside and knot the ends;
Replace the trim. If it's in good shape, put it back. If not, cut new trim to size and put it on. Caulk & install the mouldings;
Go inside & cut the cords to size (be carefull!) and re-knot it. Then, put it into the hole and carefully replace the window. Replace the parting bead, install the other window, and put on the interior trim;
Paint.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
This Old House and Best of TOH have covered this- maybe they still have a website with photos.
There are a half-dozen different schemes used.
For some it's necessary to remove the trim around the window, but in most cases you remove the "stop" that holds in the inside sash and the "parting bead" between the two sashes. The parting bead is a strip of wood about 1/2 x 3/4 inches that sits in a groove in the frame.
The strip is generally nailed or screwed into the groove, with no glue, though layers of paint may "secure" it. (Use a utility knife to cut through the paint at the joint between bead and frame before attempting removal.
Once the outer stop and middle bead are removed you can pull the two sashes out of the frame and access the pockets on each side where the sash cord is secured. To access the other end of the cord there is generally an access panel in the side of the frame, revealed once the parting bead is removed.
But, as I said, there are a bunch of different schemes. Look first for any screws, as they are almost always a sign of a part designed to be removed. Look for hints, beneath layers of paint, of grooves or notches, indicating the possible presence of an access panel.
I should add that it's usually only necessary to remove the stop and bead on one side to get the sashes out, but you may need to remove the stop on the other side to get into the access panel.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Here you go, courtesy of Adams Architectural Millwork,
By the way, I used Adams this spring to make a bunch of replacement sashes to match my existing windows and they did just an awesome job. Highly recommended by me and I wouldn't hesitate using them again in the future.
If you remove the sash stop on one side you should be able to get th bottom sash out. Then remove the parting strip, this is a strip of wood pressed into a grove milled in the side of the frame. Once this is removed the upper sash will come out if the window is double hung. If it is single hung you can omit this step. Uou will however most likely have to remove the parting strip to get at the door to the weight cavity. This is usually located at the bottom of the frame.
To feed the new cord through take a piece of string and fasten a fishing sinker to on end. You should then be able to feed the weight and string past the pulley and lower it to the bottom of the weight pocket. Now tie the string to the new cord and pull the new cord down to the bottom of the weight pocket and fasten it to the weight. One note it would be better to pass the cord through the hole in the weight and tie a large enough knot in the cord so it will not pull back through, if you make a loop and tie it off, the sharp edges on the weight may cut the cord.
Through the years I have probably done hundreds of these from the big & fancy to the small and worthless. All the info here is good. Old House Journal would have the how to in their archives. Learn by doing.