I saw these on another forum and thought they would be appreciated here….I think the house is in NJ
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Replies
Talk about detail. They must have used a framing square to place the staples. Man, that's a lot of wire.
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
from what I read, it was just one guy, you can't see them in the pictures but there are black painted 2x4s above the panels to let the cables crossover the tops of the panelsit is the cleanest install I have ever seen ...for romex that is"
Man, that is beautiful.
Whelp... looks like I've got some romex to relay!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
......do you mean like, :........ A thousand words ? "
I haven't seen your name for a while,I 'm wondering how your .. wrists? ...are holding up? Back in June you were having some difficulty with them...."
Actually, it's the fingers... and them getting held up is the problem - trigger finger. If I close my fingers too far, they sometimes lock in position. Really not fun when I am dressing my kids in the morning.
I'll be geting that surgury done after my roof is done and the master bath is in!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I remembered the wrong problem ??that's only bout the billionth time.... hahahahaseriously , I hope you get it done soon you DIYer you"
It looks like black nylon wire ties, not cable stables.
"And, in my humble view, neither Democratic nor Republican party politics has anything to do with lib or con anymore. It's now just pandering to the visceral hatred that's been bred amongst those who refuse to waste their time and energy performing one of the singular most difficult tasks known to man: thinking." -SHG
Dang, that's really pretty!
Lee
here are two more..... I hope these are not too big,
that EC is .... a real artist"
I wonder this was done by a contractor or DIYer. My gut feeling is by the home owner. I doubt any electrians will spend extra time doing this, but I could be wrong.
these pictures were taken by the elec. inspector, who explains that this EC and his crew work on very large houses in the area, with one house @ 12,000 sq.ft. and the work there is the same quality"
Pretty nice the upstairs master bath feeder looks like it's an 1/8th out to the right.
http://bootliquor.com/
.....watta dump ......."
Some pretty high tech lighting to go with it.
Joe H
Here is some more info......" they are large Lutron panels "."the house is about 6-7,000 sq.ft. ..... It is huge. 600 amp service and several large panel boards. These pictures you see here are in the main service room. There is all sorts of tel/dat avi work etc. also going on..... There is a large gen on the site too. There is about 5-6 HVAC units and an 3 story elevator.""
Looks like a circuit board designer doing home electrical work....
I am a circuit board designer and I do my own electrical work and I thought I was anal. But my stuff doesn't look anything like that.
I've done my own circuit boards and my own wiring....and I *know* my wiring doesn't look like that, and I'm pretty sure you'd die of hysterics looking at one of my boards.......
What hasn't been mentioned is that 1/2 of those lines run to a junction box buried in drywall under a finished ceiling etc. before they get to the correct destination!
molten,
you usually see that setup in large facilities like powerhouses or refineries, anywhere there are control rooms.They are called marshalling cabinets, and the idea is to keep the final terminations as neat and "patch " free as possible.
the troubleshooting usually starts in those cabinets and branches into the field so to speak. which lends credence to the comments regarding the background of the installer"
Yep, plenty easy to do a beautiful wire layout between a panel and a junction box with a terminal strip in it! Trickier to make the runs from the JBs to the users that beautiful and orderly though. Easier to make it look beautiful if you don't mind wasting wire like a SOB- or if you're just exceptionally well-organized and do a great plan before starting.
But I was just joking in my post- hidden JBs are a serious no-no, regardless where or what is connected there!
This person's work looks beautiful, but you'd need to see more than the panel area to know for sure.
I think too that for a house this size the price tag for the electrical is probably in the stratosphere,
so spend some time and let the wealty HO ...see... that his money is being well spent.
then again some nice work will be buried , never to be seen again......that's me on the left, fourth from the front"
There is a DIYer that is on there from time to time, DJ Merc that did some like that.However, his was only a dozen or so runs and the pictures did not show the panels, only the runs, but they where of similar neatness.
perhaps I mis-spoke,
I should have said,
......that ECN crowd doesn't like DIY type questions....."
Wow maddog3,
Must be a public works project, I see one supervisor for every worker there! :-)
Erich
maybe it was engineered..
.that would sure slow it down........just kidding"
now thats professional looking, i'm no electrician, but i have rewired two old houses that i owned
i'll bet the guy even picked up all of his scrap wire and insulation, a rarity around here
you bring up a very good point, this guy is most likely a neat freak., who takes his time, and would drive most contractors crazy wiith the pace.
sadly, as mentioned by others, this level of skill cannot be applied to a typical small job !"
Others have inferreed it, but notwithstanding the 'neatness' factor, whoever designed the layout was a fool.
There should have been distributed subpanels and feeders in conduit, the job shown was simply a way for the contractor to charge more for an inferior job (from an engineering standpoint). Cable trays also would be better.
why is the layout foolish,
I personally have no use for Romex,
but it looks to me like this is for lighting, and not power ! conduit would be my choice as well, and from the looks of it, this installer has an industrial background and he applied his considerable talents to what he was given to work with.
...... a real Journeyman, wouldn't you agree ?"
why foolish?
Maybe personal preference due to aerospace background, but probably twice the overall cost when labor included. If the effects of how much it weighed were added in, doing the equivalent on a commercial airliner or a spacecraft would quadruple (or more) the cost of the electrical subsystem and even more to ancilliary costs.
Own house is 5300 sq feet, over 20 K when including garages, barns, sheds, etc.
11 subpanels or so, most on multifeed loop feeds.
....."multifeed loop feeds "........"ancillary"......, against my better judgement, will you explain ?"
ancilliary ... on airborne equipment, this would include the cost to get it into the air which is much $$, like $12K a pound to go to low earth orbit (LEO)
multifeed loops - example, pump house has a 'critical' load, some stuff in the barn also. So, main panel has a 40 A breaker for the feed to the pumphouse, and a 50 A breaker for the barn. The barn feeder also is continued on to the pump house on 10 AWG thru a 30 A breaker, into the 'output' of a 30A breaker at the pumphouse -- so effectively the pumphouse has 2 feeders - labeled with big yellow OSHA type caution tags for loop feeds. Clean room hvac systems typically have this type of multifeed arrangement.
example, say water pump running and welding at the barn 100% duty cycle and eventually 50 A main panel breaker trips, pump still running; likewise, if a local short on a 20 A circuit trips that pumphouse breaker and the 40 A breaker to the pumphouse, the 30 A feed to the pumphouse does not trip (gotta calc the loop impedances for this to work properly), thus the pump stays running.
......."gotta calc the loop impedances for this to work properly "I am now curious about this...how did you pull this off with standard breakers? did you put chokes in these feeders"
Re: "11 subpanels or so, most on multifeed loop feeds."You have Waaayy too much time on your hands and/or you worry too much.
the instalation is foolish for the following reasons:1) "sheets" of wiring covering walls are very dangerous if remodelers start on the other side of the wall.2) While exposed wiring should be neat, concealed wiring needs only to be planned.3) If this is lighting wiring then the wiring should be 14g not 20g. It is sufficient for the task and easier to handle.
uh, 20 is smaller than 14"
Simply awesome. There had to have been a ton of planning on those home runs. If only I could be half as neat on my home runs.
I'm going to show these to my electricain as an example of how I want my work to look from now on.
Do you think he'll EVER call me again?
..it would be hard to top this guys work, eh?"
Re: "Do you think he'll EVER call me again?"Sure he will. No problem. Laying in the runs with such detail isn't hard or dangerous and doesn't require special equipment. So any electrician willing to invest the care and time can do it. Biggest thing is time. Those shots represent a big investment in time. Start on a job like that and the hours just fly by. No problem at all if your being paid time and materials and there is no time pressure. Actually a very relaxing way to spend an afternoon. Or three.On the flip side if your trying to push for that standard and paying by the job, assuming the pay is in the normal range, your going to have an uphill battle.
according to the inspector.....the HO changes his mind .....DAILY"
Locally, the exposed romex wouldn't pass code, even in a mechanical room. :-)
It sure does look great though.
Wouldn't you also have to de-rate the cable for having them all running together, or does that only apply to bundles?
Very neat job! Any shots of how he tied into boxes and switches?
just these pictures so far....
I think the cables get derated in bundling , but not in this set-up
the Elec inspector isthe one who took the shots BTWI have only run conduit except for two homes in my 34 years ... but you have to admire the quality....especially where the cables change from horiz to vert."
I wonder if this electrician used to work in nuclear power plants?? I've seen cabling (and small diameter piping) laid out like that in power plants.
Who was the electrician? I used to work with a guy from Stanhope, John Cavenaugh, who might have done work that nice.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
I don't know ... I'm in Indiana.....this place is back East in Morris County NJsorry, there was no mention of who the sparks, or the EC is...."
Well, Stanhope is in Morris County. I would not be at all surprised if my old buddy was the electrician.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
Could you post the url of the other forum? I'm quite curious.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
sure.....you got five bucks? hahahahabut a word of caution , the folks over there don't like DIY typesthe fella who took the pictures is the Elec Inspector and he has not provided the personal info about that electricianhttp://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001099.html" edited for:
hey Andy while you're over there look at my pics in that folder under he heading of ***FIRE***
Edited 11/10/2005 11:35 am by maddog3
A little OT, but I notice that NM is color coded by AWG these days. Is this an NEC requirement (and when did it start)? If not, is it pretty universal among manufatcurers, or do some do it and others not?
Yikes! I never want to be near anything like that!Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
well, it was no day at the beach ...that's for sure....and where is my five bucks???"
Edited 11/10/2005 5:05 pm by maddog3
In the mail?Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
None of this matters in geological time.
.....Ok, if your going to be difficult ...then forget it......hahahahahayou can owe me!!"
Yeah, I'd be curious to know who the eletrical sub is too. Really nice work. I'd love to have it in my future McMansion. :)
I thought derating was only inside conduit due to heating.Plus those wires are too neat- it will set up a negative flux field reaction and stop the electron flow- romex needs to be random!
uhh...
the thread is from 2005..I don't think he is going to answerbut they do get derated if they are bundled for more than 24'" IIRC.
.
.. . . . . . . .
"Locally, the exposed romex wouldn't pass code, even in a mechanical room. :-)"It fully meets NEC. They allow NM to be exposed and follow the surface of building material. However, it does require some kind of protection if it is "expsed to phyisical damage" which this is not.
Mice.
Tell him to rip it all out and replace with MC.
MD,
The work LOOKS great. BUT, (I'm not an electrician) couldn't running so many wires parallel to one another create an induction induced field inadvertently into an adjacent wire at an an invertant time? ie. when a circuit is turned off and the others have a high loads.
WSJ
Jon,
yes that can happen , and does, but the effect is negligible... a voltage detector eg: a tick tracer wil pickup that induction and fool you ....and if they wrapped around a steel pipe , you could feel some heating..... The same thing occurs with different circuits in conduit, all day
long. your question would be best applied to single ungrounded conductors in individual steel conduits....
which would result in some spectacular failures"
Would bet this guy is an ex-Western Electric guy that used to install analog/digital telephone switches. Those guys were "cable artists" with wax twine! Every cable in every rack in every central office was tied down with exactly that kind of precision. Never seen it in house wiring though - neat pictures!
one thing is certain, whoever did that quality of work is a dying breed !"
Looking at that makes me kind of weepy.
I worked on a similar install, did the same thing with the romex so we could keep it all straight and because the billionaire owner was in heavy construction and liked to see that kind of work. It looks like a Lutron Homeworks system...
All of the cables coming from the lighting panels are switch legs. Each one goes to a single switched light (or group that switch together). The switches are low voltage and each is addressed with dip switches. The switch signals the microprocessor in the lighting panel to run the appropriate "scene" when pressed.
The installer can call into the panel and make adjustments at the customers request.
The system records all lighting activity for the last seven days, so when you go on vacation and start the vacation mode it plays back a seven day period over and over.
My favorite function is that when connected to the alarm system, every light in the house comes on when the intruder alarm sounds; and they can't be shut off with out a passcode. Wouldn't that scare the bejesus out of a thief?There are no electrons! It is all made up. Don't believe it.
Electricity is made by GREENIES.
I expect the voltage drop (7000sqft home) may cause problems.
I prefer using properly spaced subpanels - about 50amp 220v for 700sqft.
....good point, I did not see a one line for this job though......."
At times, when seeing very neat installation, I'll tell my clients that "it's nice to see that the electrician had a bit of obsessive compulsive disorder!"
....being one, I think most electricians are all a bit obsessive..
I go crazy if the slotsof the mounting screws on trim plates don't all point in the same direction"
Vertical or horizontal? I'm the same way, and I am a vertical screw slots sort of guy. Women customers love it, but the men usually don't even see it, LOL.Bill
Me too. Vertical. But then the painters and paper hangers mess them all up!!!
The other nice thing about a neatly installed and well labled system, is that it is far less frustrating to trouble shoot, change or maintain in the future. And far cheaper for the customer in the future.There are no electrons! It is all made up. Don't believe it.
Electricity is made by GREENIES.
......both, there is a regional thing around Chicago,.. the recep is horiz. lol"
Ten Minutes to Whapner! This guy is possesed! Beautiful work. He probably just had it all in his head. Didn't need a plan.
hahahah... ".injuries go in the green book....""
'just looks like the guys used to doing commercial work with EMT.
If this is an individual home run for each light switch, it's not surprising that there's this much wiring, and hence the need for and extraordinary amount of organization.
I worked on a Cheescake Factory restaurant , there were five dimmer panels controlling 1600 lights of all types in the restaurant, I did not work on the lighting ....thankfully... as the conduit and wiring was a nightmare.....twenty guys between two shifts working on lighting for six weeks to finish the rough-in"