My 12 year Massachusetts colonial is finished with bluboard and skimcoat plaster, but the ceilings are all unpainted swirled texture finish (tinted white).
I’m beginning a master bedroom re-model and would love the knock down the rough surface on it and float it smooth and paint it ceiling white. Good size room 400 sq ft, and cathedral ceiling.
Does anyone have any recommended techniques? I’m a weekend warrior that is pretty skilled. Any chance this will look good when i’m done, and I won’t be still at it when the leaves fall again?
Edited 2/7/2006 7:54 pm ET by JDev
Edited 2/7/2006 7:56 pm ET by JDev
Replies
It's actually pretty easy to do with sheetrock mud.
First buy a 2" wide carbide tipped scraper at HD or where ever. Scrape any small ridges and whatnot that stick up above the main surface, but don't get carried away. Save your energy for the skimming.
The following will work with minimal sanding, but only if you apply the mud with firm pressure and don't try to put on anything more than what will fill the voids. Use a 12" wide knife and you'll go through quite a bit of mud so buy a few 5 gal buckets.
The key is to first apply mud from either top-down or right-left, but don't do both on any one coat. You'll want to, but don't change directions. Just apply one skim coat from only one direction and let it dry hard. It will be very rough, but don't be tempted to do anymore to it now, just let it dry.
Then, take your 12" knife and "shave" off any high points before you skim it again. Just run the knife over the entire surface and that's it--don't sand anything for goodness sake.
Apply the second coat directly across the first coat, don't give in and do something else. You'll notice that as the knife is drawn across the surface it will not appear to be smooth at all, but don't give in to tempation and try to put it on thicker, just keep filling in the low spots.
Let it dry and repeat the cycle again. You'll be pleasently surprised at how smooth it will get and how you haven't had to sand anything yet.
Keep skimming the surface until it's all smooth and there are just slight ridges from the taping knife overlaps. Now's the time to lightly sand using good light and you're done.
Good luck,
Don
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
And use either All Purpose mud, or setting type mud. Don't use the light weigght stuff.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks for the input
I've used both in the past, and the trade-off I see on this job will be between workability and sandability.
The setting type is not as soft, so it's less likely to gouge during sanding, but it is alot harder tofloat, and ALOT harder to sand.
The all-pupose mud will need a much lighter touch and won't be as durable, but given it's a ceiling, I'm thinking this is the right choice.
Excellent step by step post. Got copied and saved into "My Documents" folder in case I ever run into that situation (which I hope I don't). Just wondering though, wouldn't it be easier/quicker to cover it with 1/4" drywall & finish it off normally? I'd personally rather do that even if I had to rent a lift.
Just wondering though, wouldn't it be easier/quicker to cover it with 1/4" drywall & finish it off normally?
I thought of that too, but then you would have to re-tape the corners which would then require re-painting the walls. In an empty room, this might be faster, but in a lived-in room, it might be a toss-up.
Now a question for you... How would you hold up the edges of the ceiling sheets? You know, between the joists, where there is not a continuous nailer. The one time I did it, I relied on the joint tape, but the room also got crown molding so I wasn't concerned if a little crack showed up down the road.
-Don
I've wondered if D-mix would work.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
"I've wondered if D-mix would work."Sorta, Maybe.I did a room with d-mix that had a sand texture. That was coarse sand mixed in paint and varied from one grain per sq inch to dozens.the blade wanted to bounce off the sand and reproduce it in the finish.I suspect that the same problem with the swirl texture. And notice that they used multiple coats.I ended up with using a very, heavy coat of d-mix and using a concrete finish trowel. That helped a lot, but still had some ripple showing through. And it would have required another coat to get a good finish. But the room was given knock down anyway.And that was my first experiement with d-mix.
I wondered how D-mix would work. Did notice the post about multiple coats. wasn't sure how the d-mix would fill, or maybe fill first couple layers as suggested, then roll the last. just thoughts. We have the swirled ceilings and sometimes I think....
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Use drywall adhesive or compound on the back of the sheets, especially if they are only 1/4".
I agree. That's the way to handle that problem.
"...wouldn't it be easier/quicker..."
For a weekend warrior I'd rather skim coat than wrestle sheetrock on a cathedral ceiling and a guy can do as little or as much as he wants as time allows.
Personally, it's rather relaxing and with a little classical music, a good way to spend the evening hours.
It should probably be said that if your ceiling has a lot of ups and downs, you need to flatten those big valleys before trying to smooth anything. A good rule of thumb for most wall surfaces, unless they get harsh lighting, is to avoid more than 1/16" of dip per foot, so put your 12" knife over a valley or ridge and you shouldn't have more of a gap than that. If so, even if it looks smooth, you'll probably be able to see it once the texture and paint are on.
Every remodel I've been on this issue comes up and the 1/16" per foot will win out over someone's best guess every time. With harsh direct lighting glancing down the surface, or if a perfectly smooth finish is desired, it might require no more than 1/32" per foot and it makes sense to use a 4' level to inspect for waves.
Many guys I work with don't like it that I do this, but, a severly low spot needs to be fixed or you can smoothly apply skim coats until the cows come home and it won't fix the underlying issue. Once I've checked a wall for waves I'll cake on as much 20 minute quickset as it takes to get the surface close without needing to sand it down. This coat looks terrible, but it's just a filler.
If your 12" knife is drawn hard against a surface it will bend a great deal, conforming to the surface. It's an oversimplification that I simply skim in two directions. I'll hold the knife as perpendicular to the surface as possible to eliminate the blade deflection and deposit as much mud in the low spot as possible, at least for the first coat.
There are many on this board that do these things much more than I, but this method works consistantly if the area isn't too large. If it's a large area then yes, it's much better to scrap what's there or cover with another layer of rock and start the surface from scratch.
:-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
A few of things to add to this.
1) The ceiling is in very good shape.
2) It is not a deep texture. (not popcorn, just a swirled finish).
3) The ceiling is pretty high in the middle of the room, and given the size, I wouldn't bother boarding myself. I'd have it done.
4) The ceiling also has a skylight opening in it, making re-boarding even less attractive.
4) I'm no speed demon, but I'm pretty good with a taping knife.
I guess I mention all of this because skimming seems to be the reasonable approach and the way I'm leaning, and because the approach of covering it over with more board and taping all joints seems drastic for a relatively new ceiling in otherwise perfect condition.
Thanks very much Don! This sounds like a good approach. The same room acutally has this finish on the walls in two walk-in closets, so I'm inclined to work out the kinks in my technique there first.
I'll let you know how I make out!
jdev