How To Straighten A New Sagging Door?
I have installed a new 3-6′ x 7-0′ door with sidelights on both sides. It’s all prehung in one big frame.
The frame is screwed into the side studs (but not the top yet) and the frame is square and plumb. I’ve got it level in all directions (with a 4′ level that I’ve determined is accurate). When I open the door it stays where I leave it.
The problem is that on the latch side at the top, there is a significant gap – 11/32″ when it should be about 4/32″. On the top of the hinge side the gap is only 5/32″. I’ve checked that the door is square by measuring the diagonals (same). The jamb that the door sits within is also square (checked diagonals). When I open the door 90 degrees from closed and put a level on top, it shows that the door slopes away from the hinge side. Bringing it to level looks like it will correct the 6/32″ gap difference between each side.
So, how do I bring it to level?
1. Bend the hinges as per Mr. Katz and others?
2. Shim the hinges?
3. Both/either?
Also, the screws that came with the hinges are only #10 x 3/4″. The install instructions advise replacing the top screw in each hinge with a #10 x 2-1/2″ to prevent door sag. I have not done this yet, though obviously I’ve got sag. I’m waiting to do this until I get feedback from the Breaktime experts.
Thanks from a amateur in Iowa,
David Andersen
Replies
If you have the thickness in the frame/sidelight frame, then try the long screws. If that doesn't work, shim out the 4 hinges (thickest at bottom and then reduce on the way up. Will the margin along the latch side take that kind of movement?
You need to be careful with the bent hinge technique, it can spring the door "out or in" rather than up/down.
edit: If the frame is like many I've dealt with........you should be able to cram a shim between the header and head jamb that will force it down just a fuzz if all else is right on. This will be for appearance as I'm guessing the weatherstrip more than makes up for the discrepancy.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Edited 11/22/2005 7:41 am ET by calvin
If the top on the latch side is low, how is the gap at the bottom on the sides? I'd try shimming the bottom and maybe center hinge and replace the screws with at least 1 1/4" screws. Use a non compressible material for the shim (I like to use plastic laminate scraps or samples). Cut the shim about 1/2" wide and use it to "cock" the hinge at an angle instead of shimming the entire hinge out, that way you can move it either direction depending on if you place the shim on the outer or inner edge of behind the hinge leaf.
In my opinion, bending the hinge is only asking for trouble. I used to see the "track rats" do it all the time but I've made a good living replacing those bent hinges and refitting doors.
If the door stays put, don't stress over level and plumb anymore. Make sure to cross-sight the frame in the opening so that the door is even with the frame top and bottom when its closed.
Norse
Beware of over-long screws - they'll go thru into the sidelights! Check, as there's often only 1-1/2" in the jambs...
If you're absolutely sure that everything is sq and true, then sagging is the answer. Often people hang the jamb with a bit of a rack in it, but you've disproved that.
I've found that I prefer the long screws in a hole that is closer to the centre of the jamb, BTW. Put a longer screw into the top hinge with 1/8" left protruding, the middle hinge with 1/16" ditto, and remove the 3/4" ones there. see if the door "sags into the right place"...if that indicates anything positive, adjust in and out until it looks right. Add cardboard behind those hinges to pack them out (you may have to loosen the screws off a little first). Then complete installing the screws. This just may pull everything out a tad, so it's a case of infinite patience to get it right.
And now check the strike and latch plates - you may need to adjust them, too.
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
I've attached a drawing that shows the gaps around the door. Since a 1-unit adjustment out on the bottom right hinge area will move the door multiple units at the top, I think I have the room for the adjustment. I hope!Also, the large gap in the upper left is just barely covered by the weatherstripping. I can detect a small amount of daylight actually.Thanks for the advice Norse, Calvin, and Piko.David
Here is the drawing.
Don't mess with it. Call the place you bought it from and have them get their rep to come out and fix it. I put in the same type of door and had problems such as yours. The rep came out and said it was assembled improperly. I let him fix it so the warranty would not be voided by me messing the thing up. I actually had to have them come out again to readjust it one more time. It is still not perfect - but what is.
this may sound stupid, but while you're waiting for the company rep to come out, why don't you try to put a shim under the hinge jamb, about 7/32 nds ought to do it....it may not be right, but it will work...
simple mathematics based on your drawing says there is something wrong with the assembly or something is out of square and you;re not detecting it. Adjusting the hinges will not rectify your problem. Matter-of-fact, math tells me that you cannot eliminate the top discrepancy by adjusting the side even if the side is adjusted to a point beyond even.
Hey, if you're near Cleveland... $150 will tell you what the problem is and maybe even fix it.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein
http://www.peteforgovernor.com
PeteD gave me reason to recheck my measurements.Even though my 4' level indicates that the frame around the door is level (and I turned the level upside down to check it both ways), measuring the diagonals of the door frame show that it's a parallelogram where the top left to bottom right diagonal is 1/4" longer than the opposite diagonal. I'm going to assume that I can't detect the difference with my level and that the frame really is out of square. Where would you shim the frame to correct this, given that I have two integrated sidelights?
I would mortise in the top hinge 1/32 to get a uniform gap on the hinge side, or perhaps pull it in that much with a long screw. This should bring the top of the latch side up about 1/64. Since your top left/bottom right diagonal is longer I would, if possible, cut 1/8" of the bottom of the hinge jamb and drop it down that amount, this should square up the jamb and eliminate the top gap taper.
If the top of the door is not level when open the jamb is not plumb, but likely needs to be where it is to plane with the sheetrock.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!