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How to talk to builder?

kb | Posted in General Discussion on November 2, 2005 05:06am

Problem: Contracted with builder to complete project by certain date. Job delayed by sub-contracted insulators. Meanwhile builder starts another framing job. Both builder and I, homeowner, have had great terms up till this point. 

Sub-contracted drywallers then had falling out with builder. Now my project has sat for several weeks stagnant with no work progressing. Builder under stress and avoiding me, does not show when he says he will. Meanwhile I am trying to keep the ball rolling, contacting subs and lining up schedules, picking up materials, in hopes of finishing by this year.

My builder isn’t planning to come back to this job till he wraps up the other, even though he expressly said upon hiring him that he would finish this job before taking on another. My main concern is that the cedar siding be installed over the next few weeks, but after talking to him tonight it sounds as though he thinks he has all winter to do it.

I want to be respectful and considerate of the circumstances, but I am frustrated that my project is the last priority at this point. If you were the builder how would you want me, the homeowner, to approach you? Should I try to find someone else to hang the siding? I don’t know of anyone in my area who is experienced with wood siding, in fact, it will be this builder’s first experience with it as well.

I am not one for beating around the bush, but I have also been very respectful in my communications. I feel I have been very patient as well. My spouse thinks I have not applied enough pressure, I’m not convinced that would be best. Any advice?

Thanks

KB

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Replies

  1. User avater
    Huck | Nov 02, 2005 05:09am | #1

    I'm confused - who is hiring the subcontracted work, yourself (homeowner) or said builder?

    1. kb | Nov 02, 2005 07:01am | #3

      Both. Mostly he is the GC, but since I built the first half of the house five years ago, I have contacts for insulation, drywall, etc. I lined up the Icynene Insulation because I had them do work for me on the first half of the house five years ago. He lined up the drywall people, then when they didn't work out, I called a couple people I knew and had him talk to them.

      kb

      1. User avater
        Huck | Nov 02, 2005 07:21am | #5

        Still a little confused: what was the penalty you paid to the builder for the delay your insulation subcontractor caused? Am I understanding this correctly?

        1. kb | Nov 02, 2005 02:27pm | #9

          Actually, the penalty was to be fined to the builder if the job wasn't finished in six months. (Building loans in this area will only go out six months)The insulation subs were two weeks behind schedule, however, the builder still just barely completed what he needed to do the night before they arrived.

          In all fairness, he does a great job when he is here, he just hasn't been here except for a few nights in the month of October and he seems to be avoiding talking to me.

          KB

  2. notDusty | Nov 02, 2005 05:56am | #2

    kb ,

               Sorry to hear of your situation . Just out of curiosity did the original contract clearly state a completion date ? Was any penalty also stated ? Does a written contract exist ? Unfortunately verbal promises for completion dates don't hold up in the real world , all terms need to be in writing and signed by the homeowner to prove you saw it . By any chance has the builder been paid already ? I hope not . Is this builder licensed in your area ? If you do have a contract I would send the builder a certified or registered letter clearly asking all the questions you have in regards to completing your job . A copy can also be sent to the state contractors board or whatever it is called in your state if you still don't get the satisfaction you deserve. In speaking to the builder be polite and business like and professional and to the point , don't be argumentative or counter productive . Try your best to be part of the solution , ask him how you can help out . IMO have a witness present when meeting in person . Quite possibly this guy is legit , and just caught in a bind . Now you are involved in his problems. If he has been paid , and is legit go directly to the builders board , he will not want to risk his livelihood from a claim or judgement against him hopefully .

                            good    luck         dusty

    1. kb | Nov 02, 2005 07:10am | #4

      We have a signed contract which includes a completion date and a penalty. I don't think the penalty  is enough of a motivator for him to pull himself off the other job, though. I don't want to develop a bad relationship with him because then I believe the quality of work  I receive from him, when he does get around to it,  will suffer. Not sure how to proceed, thanks,

      KB

      1. notDusty | Nov 02, 2005 09:50am | #6

        kb,

                    The GC has breached the contract , therefore  all previous agreements may now be considered null and void in a court of law . This guy is totally neglecting you and your contract , and has shown willful neglect and an inability or unwillingness to complete your job in a timely way . Your worried about developing a bad relationship with him ? IMHO he has created a less than nurturing relationship with you the paying customer . I find it almost an act of desperation on your part to even consider allowing him to return to your property . Now that your contract has been broken , cut your losses and use your time money and energy in a positive direction , find someone else to complete the job, what would  you have to lose at this point ? If for some reason this is the only GC within a hundred miles or so then if I were you , I would be learning to put the wood siding up yourself , according to your post your GC has never installed it before either .Who knows , you may actually do a better job seeing as though it is your own house . Typically the manufacturer or distributor of the siding will have installation instructions available to make sure the warranty is not voided .

                                               quit being a such a nice patsy

                                          I sincerely wish you the best of luck

                                                          dusty

  3. joeh | Nov 02, 2005 10:00am | #7

    KB, I feel for ya, BUT, the job fell behind due to the non performance of the insulation sub who YOU HIRED.

    The drywallers schedule was screwed up by YOUR insulation sub.

    You're blaming the wrong guy, go get your mirror.

    Resolution unknown, but don't blame your builder.

    Joe H

    1. kb | Nov 02, 2005 02:39pm | #10

      I agree that the the delay caused by the insulation subs was not his fault, it just happens in this business.

      The drywall subs, on the other hand, were simply incompetent. They sent a guy who had never worked for them before and usually pours concrete for a living. He and his nephew helper hung three sheets in three hours, broke out every corner of the sheets, had to borrow lights, extension cords, ladders, and they had a broken roto-zip tool. They nicked my window frame and did damage to the insulation. After that the builder had a falling out with them and couldn't find anyone else, so I put him in contact with a guy I knew who does good work, just a llittle more expensive than he budgeted for.

      I understand delays happen and things seem to always take longer and cost more in this business. I just want to know the best way to proceed to get my siding up before winter sets in.

      1. User avater
        Matt | Nov 02, 2005 03:11pm | #11

        I'm a builder (actually a superintendent) and can tell you that subs showing up late are an everyday occurrence.  I just had a concrete sub put me off for 2 weeks until I finally went with another sub.  Now it's 2.5 weeks later (from the day I had originally scheduled with concrete sub #1 and I have concrete but my Nov 4 th finish date has slipped through my fingers and I fear I'm loosing a grasp on 11/11.   Luckily the customer is "not in a hurry".  Due to other delays I wrote off my delivery date incentive pay 2 months ago on that one.

        On another house my normally very reliable drywall contractor just took 2 weeks to do the house when it normally only takes 1.  I'm not worried about that one (yet) as my cabinet delivery date is behind since the customer could not make up his mind and the cabinet change order I wrote included a 1 month delay to the delivery date.  My situation is a little different since I'm an hourly employee and, at least on this house, my pay is not tied to a delivery date. 

        Now that your builder has had his pay cut by the situation with the drywall contractor, and he has obviously already written off the late penalty, he has little incentive.  He probably wants to get his other job dried in too.  Since you contributed to the decay of the schedule maybe if you told him that you would add 2 weeks onto the finish date (thereby postponing the late penalty) it might help him get motivated.  I know you stated that he was not ready for insulation until the last minute but who is to say that he wouldn't been ready 2 weeks prior if it were necessary.

        I know I'm not helping at all but I'm just trying to give you a glimpse of the other point of view.

        1. blue_eyed_devil | Nov 02, 2005 06:51pm | #12

          Matt, I think you're onto something. Your suggesting using a carrot instead of a stick.

          blue 

        2. kb | Nov 03, 2005 02:51pm | #16

          Thanks, Matt - I was looking for the view from the other side of the coin without finger pointing and blaming because I know delays are inevitable. Your reply accomplished that.

          kb

    2. notDusty | Nov 03, 2005 05:08am | #13

      JoeH ,

                   I missed the post that the homeowner admitted he was responsible for the insulation subs late appearance . I was wrong to say the builder breached the contract . You hit the nail on the head by suggesting the homeowner look in the mirror . I honestly do not believe the penalty for late completion could be enforced at this point , at least in a court of law . When a builder allows the homeowner to hire his choice of subs at will , he imo looses control of the job and perhaps will learn from the experience .

                                   dusty

  4. Schelling | Nov 02, 2005 01:58pm | #8

    Talk to him by saying what you have said to us. For whatever reason, he is not getting the job done. Ask him what you should do. It sounds like he is overcommitted and he has placed you at the bottom of his list. He can hardly blame you, indeed he may thank you, for finding someone else to finish the job.  He may even provide you with some leads.

    Now all you have to do is find that someone else. Good luck.

  5. Piffin | Nov 03, 2005 05:21am | #14

    Since you ar involved in all aspects of this and are partly responsible for the oof-schedule, your only recourse now is to re-negotiate the contract to start fresh.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. kb | Nov 03, 2005 03:20pm | #17

      Thanks,

      I'm not looking to find fault or suggest that one person is soley responsible for the delays. I knew from the get go that it was unlikely it would be finished in six months. (I am not interested in charging the builder any penalties, it's in the contract with the bank.) I want to maintain a good relationship with him in the long run. I care about him and his family.

      My first post was simply meant to state some info and ask from builders themselves, how they would want to be approached in this situation by a homeowner. You and a few others have answered without alot of blaming and fingerpointing which is helpful and not counterproductive.

      Footnote: We all sat down last night and he was forthright in explaining the situation he is in with the other job and where that leaves our project. The bottom line is that when people communicate truthfully and without faultfinding and fingerpointing, it is much easier come to a mutual understanding. It is always easier for people to handle the truth rather than unknowns.

      KB

      1. Piffin | Nov 04, 2005 12:13am | #19

        RightGood luck 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  6. shellbuilder | Nov 03, 2005 06:05am | #15

    Ask him for a schedule and if he won't give itto you , can him. Any builder can handle two jobs at once, actually with a bunch of subs at least 4 jobs wouldn't be a problem. I work with a helper, do all the carpentry and have 3 additions going. And I talk to my customers by phone or email daily,

    http://www.shelladditions.com

  7. User avater
    txlandlord | Nov 03, 2005 03:45pm | #18

    KB,

    Soryy KB and BT Crew that this is so long, but KB has a tough problem.

    I am a custom homebuilder, building 4-6 homes per year. All of the post from the BT Crew are good, with different perspectives to consider in each one.

    I would suggest that you regroup preparing a document as follows.

    Make a list of the items that need to be finished.

    Prepare a schedule for the work, suggesting a start and finish date. This start and finish date is not (for example November 15, 2005 - January 25, 2006), but a good estimate on the number of weeks or months it will take to finish. A suggested start date may be included.

    Acknowledge delays that were your fault, trying to estimate the actual time lost. NOTE: Delay statements should be associated with actual problems, and an estimated setback time. They are not open ended:  Your involvement may have caused project of 2-6 weeks, but that does not give the builder the right to pull off the project for 2-6  months.  

    List the lenders penalties, and or fees for loan extension, and list the reoccuring interest charges each month. List additional expenses assoicated with the build ie. insurance, temporary living quarters, portable toilet, site security or maintance, etc.

    List the clauses in the contract for delays. Again, this would be with recognition of dealys that you created, and or sub-contractor or vendor delays.

    I would formally prepare this document, and arrange a meeting with your builder. 

    The first thing you need to talk about is a general statement about continuation of work on the house and it's importance. Emphasis that you are interested in coming to a peaceful solution, and the importance of moving in some direction, formalizing a plan. He should answer your questions ie. Are you going to finish your other project before coming back to mine? Is there a way that you can work the two projects at the same time? What problems are you having with my project that would cause you to cease work?

    After this, talk about the items above, see if you and the buider can come up with a satisfactory plan.

    If he is uncooperatiive, review the penalties, delay clauses and tell him you will be forced to talk to your lawyer. In the midst of all of this I would be reporting to the lender, and asking for their perspective and suggestions.

    If the meeting can not be arranged, carefully prepare and word the doument (it may be best to ask for a lawyers review), and send it to the builder certified mail / return receipt requested. A lawyers review will help you to maintain legal rights that your wording may compromise or forfiet.

    We have worked contracts in which their is an abandonment clause, giving the HO the right to cancel the contract after 3 weeks of inactivity.

    Searching and securing another builder can be time consuming,  difficult Iin particular because the builder is finishing someone elses work) and expensive. Perhaps you could perform the work as the GC, using sub-contractors.  

    Regarding the siding: Our homes do not require that the siding is installed to be "dried in". The exterior is wrapped, windows and doors installed and flashings as required are functional. If your builder has prepared the walls, openings etc. carefully, the building envelope may be at a point of being weatherproof. Store the siding in the best place you can find, stacked square and neat to minimize warping and twisting. A tarp covering is recommended if the storage is outside.

     

     

     

     

     

    1. kb | Nov 10, 2005 04:17pm | #20

      "Make a list of the items that need to be finished.

      Prepare a schedule for the work, suggesting a start and finish date. This start and finish date is not (for example November 15, 2005 - January 25, 2006), but a good estimate on the number of weeks or months it will take to finish. A suggested start date may be included."

      Thanks for your reply,

      We did just what you suggested above (actually on several occasions as start dates kept getting missed) Without going into alot of detail about his personal situation, suffice it to say I have simply learned he is a nice guy who does good work but gets overcommitted. Not unlike alot of us.

      We have spoken honestly and we understand each others position. I can be patient as long as there is open communication, which he has been very good about since our last meeting. I anticipate a happy ending to this story.

      Thanks for your wisdom and advice,

      kb

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