I’d love to know how houses were built a hundred years ago – at the turn of the century, prior to the first world war. Tools and materials. What power tools were available, what power tools were commonly used on a jobsite, what was still being done with hand tools, etc. What framing lumber was like, common framing and finish practises, etc. Were cranes, forklifts, etc. in use then?
Especially in the west coast / California region.
Would love any photos, links, insights, etc.
And for what its worth, especially as regards the work or Peter and John Hall, builders for Charles and Henry Greene of Pasadena.
“…craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit.” – P. Korn
Replies
Your question is pretty involved. Just briefly, I would guess that in 1909 there were no power tools on most job sites. (Certainly not any that run on electricity, like a so called "Skill" saw, for example.) The usual method of construction was balloon framing (and probably still lots of post and beam, especially for barn construction). You may find out more if you Google "balloon framing" and if you can get to a good library.
Edited 2/1/2009 2:48 pm ET by Danno
I'll comment on the ones I know from here. The Island was first settled in the 1600's , but most of the development and big houses that still stand happened in 1896 to 1908.
Some of the farmhouses are one and a half storey balloon frame and many have log poles 3-6" diam for roof and floor joists.
the larger houses here often have three or four stories and are sometimes platform famed and sometimes balloon framing.
The sill situation is unique and interesting on a lot of them. It is almost always heavy timber, 8x8 up to 12 x 8. ( I think I will sketch it up instead of text explaining it - later)
the studs were rough cut and measure about 3-7/8"
The walls, roof, and floors are sheathed with one bys paned smooth on one side to 7/8" thick. Corners were invariably a 4x4 and that was braced by a diagonal cut 4x4 taken back 4' at the sill. studs were cut on that bevel to meet the brace. THAT had to be some hard work with a hand saw.
Interior finish was horsehair plaster on wood lathe. There was a lime kiln on island so the lime was local, sand washed out on the beaches, horsehair from the local stables.
INterior millwork came from steam mills in Philadelphia. I have found countless stampings and crayon markings on backs of casings indicating origins, and the contractor and job name and the name of the island. These had probably been hand written on the outside piece of a bundled pallet for shipping. I'd been told by an old timer, that a lot of the casings were precut mitres and numbered per door or window the went to. Steamships came into a loading wharf or two here from Boston and Philly and NY
Floors were almost all heart pine.
Shellac and wax were finishes.
wall finishes were either wallpaper or paint. Calcimite paint on some walls and most ceilings.
Many of these places were built in 6-9 months with a crew of about 20-30 guys. I've seen old pictures of them from newspaper or at the historical society, huddled up at a fire barrel at lunch time or posing for the picture. Many times a wealthy family would summer here at the Inn, select their property ( descriptions i've read of the process reminds me of time share sales agents pushing a sale at your 'free' weekend away) and spend time that summer with an architect, then expect to move in the following summer. I have worked on a couple at least where there were signs that the service wing and kitchen were finished the second year, because of slight differences noticed in framing style and finish quality etc.
sharpening hand saws and chisles was par for the course at start of day and at lunchtime.
In cellars, I find a lot of old coal nuggets and batteries about 8" tall and 2" diam. Walls contain black pipe from the gas fixtures for lighting. Some of my pipe clamps are mounted on that steel.
When the house had a drilled or pounded well instead of a dug well, it was fitted with a one cylinder Fairbanks diesel engine and a rather large flywheel. There would be a cistern for water storage in the attic and gravity feed to supply the water to the rooms below. The caretaker would manually fire up the pump once or twice a day as needed, selecting a time when the noise would be less bothersome to the inhabitants.
Foundations were something else! There is some magnificant masonry on a few with stone laid right to bedrock. But most of these were built only as summer 'cottages' on posts. These were placed on hand dug 'piers' that were mostly all failed by time I moved here in 1987. I got to replace a great many, and jack houses straight becuase of that failure. The process seemed to have been to dig down about 3'and roll large rocks into the hole with lime mortar filling the voids, then come up from the ground a few courses of brick to make a level spot to perch an 8x8 on.
Unfortunately, the ground water leached the lime out of the mortar over time, so it was only still slightly effective between the bricks above ground.
On the farmhouses for the locals, the foundations were rubble rock walls, 5-8 feet deep and a couple feet thick, with same lime based mortar.
Framing dims - a lot of roofs were up to 38.5" OC and some walls wwre right at 19" cubit framing. Others varied from 16" to 21", wherever a carpenter felt like putting one, it seems. Headers were also 4x4 far too often. I've replaced many of thise with sags up to an inch.
chimneys were unlined brick and most of that mortar had been eaten away by weather and acids from the soot ( coal was much used for heat and cooking way back then - most photos from 1910 to 1930 show the terrain denuded of trees.)
OK - going to sketch that floor/sill ledger detail now.
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Hey Piffin,
You've got a good beginning there for an essay on 100 year-old house construction. I've got a question that you might be able to answer.
At our 1880-era summer home in Newfoundland, I've noticed roman numerals carved into the floor boards in the attic and in a few other boards around the house. Do you know why that was done? At first, I thought the house may have been moved and reassembled at it's current location. That is, everything was labeled prior to the move. However, there are several boards with the same roman numeral. Then, I thought maybe that was the number of board feet in the board? Anyway, have you ever seen that before?
ChipTam
Not sure what that would be on floorboards.Where I see the Roman Numberals is on shutters and storms - same markings on jamb and shutter to know which goes where.And on timberframes to indicate aligning pieces at joints. those are usually closer to 200 years old. There seems to have been an evolution during the 1800s here from timber bents to frame construction. several places have a heavy timber 'top plate' and 8x8 corner posts
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Piffin,
Thanks for the feedback on the roman numerals on those plank floor boards. I guess it will remain a mystery.
Yes, in Newfoundland, you also see the gradual evolution of timber bents to modern frame construction over the nineteenth century. My 1880-era home is balloon framed but many others from an earlier era were timber framed. Now, there is a third type of construction in Newfoundland that I've never seen elsewhere. It's refered to locally as "full-studded" construction. Two inch boards are placed vertically side to side and joined together with splines to form a solid continuous wall. There is a top plate and a bottom plate. With clapboards on the outside, it looks like a any other traditional house. However, as you can imagine, trying to repair rot on these houses is a pain as is the addition of electricity and plumbing.
ChipTam
Roy Underhill (the Woodwright shop) explained the roman numerals. Imagine trying to cut a "2" with a chisel.
roman definitely easier for chisels, but the question is still WHY rather than HOW
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The "why" was just to identify pieces that were cut for a custom fit and how they go together.
Chip Tam,
Where do you live in Newfoundland? I spent three years in Argentia in the late 80's.
Oberon,
My wife and I have a summer home in Trinity, Trinity Bay. That's not too far from Bonavista or about a two hour drive to Argentia, where you were in the 80's.
ChipTam
Chip Tam,
I have been to Trinity Bay and Bonavista.
Yep, I was at Argentia from December 1986 to October 1989. I loved it.
Among other things, since the base was about 90% "wilderness" that was cut by old WWII roads to the old and unused ammo bunkers, walking the roads with my dogs was always a huge pleasure. The only concern was watching out for the moose that were really numerous and that could be cantankerous if they were in the mood!
And where else can you find places like Placentia Bay and the town of Dildo?
I was Screeched and I did kiss the cod while there.
Edited 2/4/2009 6:55 am ET by Oberon
Where did the gas for the lights come from.Carbide generator at the house.Or was there a central coal gas plant on the island?.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I'll have to ask someone at the histerical committee
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my grandfather used to cover southern Illinois on his 1910 Indian he worked for a company selling & installing carbide gas generators for lighting
sold one to a prosperous irish farmer with a lot of daughters
met my grandmother....
two years later they were homesteading the Michigan wilderness
'course, the land they bought was underwater.... they brought dredges in and tiled the landMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
95% of your post relates to South Jersey as well. The only exceptions that I am aware of is the millwork description. Most , if not every home I worked on the casings were not mitered.A plinth was used instead. The studs had a tenon that went into the heavy sill tenons. The walls are balloned framed laying down on the ground. Probably took every man to lift these into place. I got this information by watching a crew actually raise a wall in Williamsburg Virginia several years ago.They raise the wall the same way we would with platform framing,only heavier and more dangerous as the walls are two stories high.Our corners were 4x6, studs same as yours about 4" .Framing centers were usually 16" more or less,some 18". Roof was wood shakes or shingles over flat boards space to accomadate the shingles.Siding was 1x8 boards ,usually cedar.The siding was not beveled,full 1" x about 8" with 6" to the weather.The siding went over the studs, no sheathing at all.
mike
1896 to 1908
and, how many of them did you build? <G>
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and so
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Hey, yer geting good at that there picture making stuff.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
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Having to do a lot of practicing anyways to get fluent in the newest version, so I have been keeping the program open and diddling around
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The most crucial element involved with building houses 100 years ago was that they started with guys a lot older than us.
If you take a moment to do the math, you'll see how this is so.
But wait! If my grandpa fell off a roof and died at age 16, how can I exis....
He obviously started out as a guy a lot younger than you
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Ain't that the truth!AitchKay
Grandpa was a carpenter
Built houses stores and banks
Chain smoked Camel cigarettes
And hammered nails in planks
He was level on the level
Shaved even every door
Voted for Eisenhower
'Cause Lincoln won the warJohn Prine
Great lyrics ... I still have his albums!
And one more thing:They definitely started earlier. I know for a fact none of those permits were pulled in the 50s.AitchKay
Although the timeframe is much later (40's), try to get a copy of the movie "Mr Blandis build his house" (I may have the title wrong, but it is very close).
Anyone who builds today should watch this movie.
It is very funny (imagine a homeowner today sweating upchares in dollars and cents!), but also a bit of an eye opener.
Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House. 1948. Cary Grant and Myrna Loy.http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040613/I love the scene where they foreman asks Cary Grant if he wants lintels or no lintels. Of course he has no idea what a lintel is and the foreman will give him no guidance. Finally take a guess and says "no lintels?" Foreman hollers up "No lintels!" Headers come raining out of the sky.Here's a scene where Mrs. Blandings is picking colors:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQstMbFEvpMThe Money Pit was remake of this movie.Steve
Thanks!
I agree, that is a very funny scene. Watching Cary Grant wondering what a lintel is and if he wanted them in his new house was classic.
I knew about the money pit being a remake, but while (IMO) the original is a classic, the remake is...not.
My favorite scene is when they try to figure out why there is a several thousand dollar upcharge on the utitility/potting room. Seems there were several slates left over from outside and Myrna Loy thought they would look nice in her new gardening room and asked the contractor to put them in there. So the contractor changed the already poured foundattion and reframed under the room to take the added weight, as well as changing all the plumbing because of the new framing.
I also enjoy the chats with the well driller about whether there is really water down there...
i liked when they were locked in the closet and when he broke the window the door opened
Yep - definitely have to watch it again soon.
the paint scene cracks me up every time!
Actually, it was rabbets in the lintels. It went something like this:"Those lintels over the second floor lalleys - ya want we should rabbet 'em?""uh... No!""OK! Boys, tear 'em out!"(Crash!)
I think I am going to be watching Mr Blandings this weekend (local library has it on the shelf). All the comments make me want to see it again! And since it is MUCH better than anything showing at the local theater...
Good movie!!
Funny when the well driller gives him back $0.15 because he overcharged him by mistake.Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
yep - and it saves his sanity
That book/movie is "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House". I read it for the first time recently. I was smiling & at the same time saying "ouch" -
I first saw it when I was taking a course in construction drafting many years ago.
I enjoyed it then and everytime I have seen it since.
My own house is from about 1897 or so. Manitoba Canada, so not really your area. Two storey center hall, local brick facade over frame. Frame is 2x4 fir sheeted both sides with 1x6 shiplap horizontally. Then as now, best practice and actual practice don't always line up.
I had always assumed it was balloon framed, but it's actually platform framed just like a modern house, although the first floor bottom plates sit down on the sill plate - first floor walls up first, then floor, then 2nd storey on top. Flooring on the first floor is a layer of t&g fir over 1x6 shiplap fir. 2nd floor is t&g alone over 2x8 joists on 16" (or so) ctrs.
Wood lathe w/ plaster. Lathe runs through behind the interior partition walls, so they put the box up first, lathed it in, then put up their interior walls. I wonder if it was a fall build, winter finish project.
Roof sheeting is 1x random width fir with 2x6 rafters on 32" ctrs. Some handsaw marks on a few pieces but also some obvious circ. saw marks on end cuts and angled ridge pieces. Apparently pretty common to have a stationary engine, gas or steam, belted to a big, constantly running table saw on site. There's a power tool for the ages.
Roof was cedar shingles, then roofed over with 3-tab in the late '70s, which eventually disolved, so when we got it in '06 it was back to it's old roof. Leaked around the chimneys and the dormer valleys but not too bad otherwise.
why do you ask, by the way?
j
here's my grandfather building one his barns in Pontiac ? Capac ?, Michigan.....
View Image
about 1915 0r so.... he had a 1910 Indian Motorcycle and loved macines... but ther are no power tools on this job
View Image
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/1/2009 10:18 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 2/1/2009 10:19 pm ET by MikeSmith
Is he third from the right, in a white hat?
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2d from the left , with a hammer in his handMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
He was my second guess.
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Don't believe him Piffin..Mikes just touchy coz his grandfather was a dwarf.
Nice pic of you and your family Mikey! I like your hat!
I knew you were old but I didn't think you were THAT old!
why do you ask, by the way?
I recently toured Gamble House, built in Pasadena in 1908. Amazing to look at the fit and finish of all that woodwork, and I found myself wanting to visualize what kind of tools and what kind of craftsmen shaped all that wood into such a masterpiece. View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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I've been thinking some recently about the big tech jumps in residential construction that really changed the way stuff went together. Cordless tools might be the most recent one, although CAD might be in that list too. Pneumatic nailers might come before that. Then portable electric stuff before that. One that I hadn't thought about 'til I got this house is the move from complete hand tool construction to the use of big stationary belt driven power tools both for pre-built components, like Victorian gingerbread stuff pre-done for kit houses and others, and also for site work, like the big belt drive table saw I mentioned before. In this area that stage was maybe from the late 1890's 'til eletric stuff came around between the world wars. Imagine the difference in building speed and process going from all hand saws to a monster 18" or 24" table saw spinning away the whole time. There's a whole lot of that Craftsman style joinery, like your pic shows, that would become way more do-able with some power roughing out. Doesn't detract from the craftsmanship at all, just shows a change. I don't know, maybe they did chop it all out with a hatchet. j
Don't forget that much of the apparent joinery is really just aesthetic, not functional, in the Gamble House.
My last job...
Looks good...from a distance! Got any more (closer/bigger) shots? Love to see other people's work!View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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Don't really have any better close ups right now, but here is some of the interior work.
Kind of hard to see the pics. Around 100k is a nice size.
You should read the book "A Reverence for Wood" by Eric Sloane
Cranes, forklifts, etc were hardly in use 30 years ago.
It wasn't a hundred years ago, but my first trim job in the 70's was way over my head... moulded base, chair rail, crown... ruh roh... went and bought a Bluegrass miter box, sheesh.
Most of the olde places I've deconstructed could have been built with a dull hand saw and a hammer...but
places like the Vanderbilt Mansion in Cold Springs Harbor and the Biltmore House in Ashville, amaze me... how in the hell do you take a skoshe off with a handsaw? cope and stick joinery with hand planes? inlaid floor medallions...
but then Frenchy sez stick built houses only last 56yrs<G>
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
My uncles houde was built in the 60's by an old timer I'm told. The only thing modern is the slab (which mt dad says he complained about.) When they started the batter boards, he started building the handrail for the stairway. Its all one piece cherry wood and has two 90's in it. He steamed it to bend it and I'm told it took 8 months.
Guess what?
It fit when they put it in.
I also worked on a house that was built by a German engineer. Back in those days I think the word meant something else. In this house there are 9' tall full 3" wide pocket raised panel doors. They are probably around 400- 500 lbs each. Its over a hundred years old and they still slide like new.
Framimg around here is mostly ballon framing too. The first University in Texas is in my town and it is balloon framed. Go back older that that and there were a lot of Spanish and German settlers so the rest are mostly stone or log. Not much adobe around my neck of the woods because its not the right type of soil.
On the economical side we have what we call box and plank style. Sawmills would build these type of houses for their employees. There are only sbout 10 studs in them. The walls are simply 1x6 layer horizontal and one layer vertical nailed together. the studs go to hold the doors and windows only and often they dont even meet the top plate. These house are suprisingly strong and lightweight and there are still a lot of them around.
Where there's a will, there are 500 relatives
here's a link to a thread I posted several years ago with construction photo's of G'grandfather's house building -
View Image
Been in this game over 30 years and worked on a lot of old houses
seen baloon framed platform framed , you name it
my own place is a tad older 1873 , former 2 room stone school house
30" stone walls , 18" floor joists ( Cedar log flattened on top ) still smell the cedar if you cut out a piece
roof is 2 x 6 rafters ( full size ) 1 " boards with tin shingles
interior floor is 1" boards with 2" t&g planks , covered with 1" t&g hardwood
building is built like a tank , there is a stone over the front door giving the date
Our last house in Oregon was an 1880's farm house. I had a boulder foundation. On the corners and every 8' or so there was a boulder dug into the ground and one set on top of it. It had some cedar shims keeping it in place, and an 8x8 for the sillplate. Balloon framing, 1x8 lapboard interior walls w/ wallpaper. Shiplap siding on exterior. 1920's addition was a mess. 2x's in walls were 4-1/4 at the top and 3-1/2 at the bottom.
Here's a pic of the foundation. There's more of the house on my website.
Ott
http://www.ottcarpentry.com
p.s. one house we worked on had a railroad tie in the ceiling to support a wall on the second floor above it.
Edited 2/2/2009 9:21 am ET by ottcarpentry
What I'm trying to find out is, what kind of tools did they use in building it - all hand tools, or any power tools? Circular saws? Drawing knives? Pulleys, cranes, block and tackle, etc?
View Image
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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Edited 2/2/2009 9:37 am by Huck
You really do want to find those books by Eric Sloane then
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well, I guess I better check it out, then! Thanks.View Image
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
one I recal seeing photos of from here is excavation for cellars.Team of horses or oxen dragging a scoop along to haul away maybe half a yard to a yard of soil at a time, sometimes switching to a plow to loosen the dirt first
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Most of Sloanes stuff is from much earlier age.But still very interesting..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
True, but I have noticed thread drift here, so that we are now talking from 200 years ago up to the 'ancient' 1950's when we were kids.
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Like I said before "A Reverence for Wood" is awesome and forgot to mention "A Museum of Early American Tools" is another Sloane title I have.
He has a whole bunch of other great looking books too.
Audels publishing had a series of "how to" books, including one on how to build a post and beam house, published about 1905. If your state library system holds onto old books you might be able to borrow a copy from them through your local library, or perhaps someone here might have it. Al Smith
Back in the early 50's when I was a kid I was fascinated by construction. There were still a few new houses going up in my neighborhood that I could watch. Of course they were also a source for wood scraps and nails for tree houses and forts. The only power tool I remember seeing was a huge circular saw that wasn't used most of the time. It was all hammers, handsaws, spirit levels and hand planes. All the framing was conventional, no trusses and the houses were small by today's standards so there was no need for cranes or other lifting devices. They even mixed the concrete and mortar in a pile on the ground.
Huck here is a good book you can look at online. You can even download it. This one is from 1916. I did not see any Hitachi framing guns in any of the pics. There are earlier books you can look at also some from 1850's. Google Books is great. I'm glad they are doing this.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3So1AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA13&dq=carpentry&as_brr=1#PPA42,M1
Huck,
The sobering thought I have all the time when I visit my family in Iowa is how did they build all those barns 100 yrs ago?? Its one thng to build a house, but managing to lift beams that high up..............wow.
OK, now we're on the same wavelength! And how did they do stuff like this without a circular saw and a bandsaw and a router and a belt sander and a cordless drill and... ???View ImageView Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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A frame saw ( AKA Turning saw) could do the curves, and spoke shaves, moulding planes, and patience did the final fiddly bits.
Often hatchetts were used more than any other tool, a saw kerf and wasting splits were faster than actually sawing to a line. Using the weakness of the wood to your advantage was the key to fast good work.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Band saws were a common shop item back then. Question is was all the work done onsite? Many house parts were shop fabricated and hauled to the site when it came to these style buildings.
Scrapers,planes, sand paper and a lot of cheap labor did the finishing work. As an aside we used to call those protruding beam ends Greene and Greene rot starters here in the wet NW. Dumb design for this climate and yet one that is often reproduced.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
sawmills set up on streams were pretty common in New England around 1830.That date just triggered a memory.Where I grew up in Western NY, the house was started in 1832 and ain't finished yet, as Dad used to say.The original part had rubble rock trench foundation about 18" deep with brick above ground. Framing was all 8x8 timbers pegged together and doubled plank walls vertically hung outside the timbering. This was all easier to see from the barn where it was all still exposed.Then the interior was framed in later and siding applied over the exterior. I got to see that back in the fifties when Dad had it modernized with that 12" wide asbestos siding. and they tore off the old clapboards.
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amazing ...isn't it...
I was living in a tract housing development that was still being built out in 1953. We used to hang out and bother the workers all day. I don't remember many power tools being used. There was a lot of cutting with hand saws and the electricians were drilling holes with a brace and bit. The only power tool I really remember seeing was a single big table saw in the middle of the site that guys brought wood to for cutting. I remember it because that was a great source for short cutoffs of 2x4 and scraps of plywood when they went home every night. They took the saw but they left the scraps.
lee valley sells books from the early 1900,s
they have a seperate publishing arm that publishes out of print books on all manner of things from soup to nuts
i have browsed through a few in their store library
We have home movies of us on my dads building site. I saw a guy with a brace and bit so i asked my dad what he was doing. He was the guy hanging wood gutters drilling the outlet holes for the downspout with a brace and bit. Around 1962.
The funny thing is with a nice sharp bit that guy will poke a 7/8" hole in a 2x4 for Romex as fast as a spade bit in a drill. They will cut about 3/32" per revolution and a guy who does it all day goes pretty fast, maybe 80-100 RPM.
I can tell you all of it . No pics though.
They worked out of a wooden box that held hand tools . The tool box held two or three different point hand saws . They worked a wooden miter box they made . They used a plumb bob and would use water level. They dug footings by hand and every thing else . They layed stone footings here as well as the foundation walls .
100 years ago isnt all that long ago. We work on lots of houses 100 years old and its pretty easy to see tearing them apart how they were built. Whats neat for me about that era is the carpenter stayed on the job and did it all including foundaton and windows. Im not sure they site built the doors . I doubt it . But the windows yes.
It also depends on where it was built for the way it was built. The easterners had educations and money. The south was raised by backbone.
Tim
Edited 2/2/2009 7:50 pm by Mooney
Tim - the house I just toured (Gamble House) you would love. The builders made all the doors, all the windows, all the screens, all the cabinets, all the furniture, even the picture frames! Its really awesome to see. built in 1908. 20 men, 11 months. And the quality and level of detail is beyond anything I've ever seen on a modern jobsite. I'm just still trying to figure out how they did it.
http://www.gamblehouse.org
View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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I took a historic window restoration class this weekend and it was a real education. The instructor goes up and down the west coast restoring old windows. Starting in 1834 machinery was made to produce all the parts in windows. He said that he has only seen a couple of instances of handmade windows. Most everything was made and sent out by train. I suspect that is the case with most of the millwork as well. Although the windows were shipped as finished product the millwork still had to be fitted in the field.In the case of the Gamble I would think that a lot of it was made on site. However they had access to most every stationary tool we would use today, just that they were belt driven using steam power.
In the case of the Gamble I would think that a lot of it was made on site. However they had access to most every stationary tool we would use today, just that they were belt driven using steam power.
Ahh, now we are on to something! John and Peter Hall were noted for using whatever modern technology was available to accomplish traditional results (I've heard - just didn't know what it meant at the time I heard it). The time frame (11 months), to my mind, indicates there had to be power tools, but I needed some kind of historical confirmation to be sure.
Steam powered tools I hadn't heard of before this thread, and the photo John Cujie posted indicated a gas powered motor powering belt driven tools. So there were two options available for power tools.
I'd love to see some jobsite photos of a Greene and Greene job, or a John and Peter Hall job, showing the tools in use. I wonder if some of the structural timbers were processed in the shop, then sent to the jobsite. Had to be, unless maybe they had an ersatz shop set up at the jobsite.
So the wood was likely processed at a furniture shop, then sent to the jobsite. That would explain how they got furniture-quality craftsmanship in the structure itself! Just a theory, but one I like!View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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Here's an invoice.You might want to check out the Greene and Greene Virtual Archive
Some contracts in there. Gamble House: $50,400JohnEdited 2/2/2009 9:51 pm ET by JohnCujie
Edited 2/2/2009 9:57 pm ET by JohnCujie
huck.... i'm a railroad buff... one of our excursions was too the old Atlantic Coast Terminal of Weyerhauser in Portsmouthit was where a lot of the timbers and framing and other wood products came into the New England areathey had a deep water pier and a 2' guage railroad that ran out onto the pier adn then back into what had to be one of the biggest wharehouses this side of NYCthey had a large size steam boiler set up and it burned all teh wood scrap they made finish custom orders here with huge planers, behemoth bandsaws and other machines ... all belt driven off the steam boileri'm guessing this operation dated from the late 1890'swa all torn down about 1985 or soMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
huck,
i don't think we should take the Gamble house as an example of how things WERE done- but rather how they COULD be done. I am sure you are much more knowledgeable about Greene & Greene and the whole A/C and Craftsman styles---- but they were a reaction TO something and a political,socio/economic statement. 100 years ago would be 1909.--at about that time my great- grandfather owned and operated a lumberyard in PA.( Greensburg, Greenfeild---something like that). they turned out a lot of millwork and they also ran some sort of hardwood floor installation business My great grandfather who owned the lumber yard made sure all FIVE of his sons were trained as carpenters. My Dad told me many times that Great Grandpa was super concerned that all his sons become proficient in hammering with either hand and his favorite trick was to put them on an install project where they had to work up against a wall in a corner or inside a closet where they couldn't effectively use their right hand------ years later in the '30's and 40's my dad said he watched grandpa manytimes be nailing and simply switch hands almost mid hammer blow without missing a beat. Dad said that Great grandpa lost the lumber yard by trusting too many people to pay him when they could and so at some point Great grandpa and all 5 sons moved here to Akron which was a boomtown at the timeIf you are interested , Google Stan Hywet Hall and Gardens. It is a HUGE tudor Revival house built here in the early 1900's by Mr. Seiberling( founder of Goodyear Tire and Rubber. they have a nice web site and the foundation has thousands of photos-many of which show the construction process---some are shown on-line. Stone for the house was quarried on site--a small railroad was built to transport materials--- the house was built in a rural location at that time--and so Mr. Seiberling actually started what amounted to a bus line to transport workers out from town to the site. Fantastic woodwork, mostly done on site------ spectactular carved linnenfold paneling, quartersawn white oak woodwork etc. Indoor pool--and the old quarry became an outdoor swimming lagoon--- the landscaping and gardens were laid out by a man who had been an assistant to the guy who designed Central Park in NYC Like the Gamble house- it's an example of what COULD be done. In seiberlings case the project became so expensive and he had so many resources devoted to it---- that it eventually,indirectly caused him to LOSE controll of Goodyear Tire and Rubber.- Mr. Seiberling- being a REAL man-picked himself up,dusted himself off and set to work starting all over-- founding Seiberling Rubber which in turn grew to be,i think, the worlds 5th biggest rubber company--so he was resonsible for 2 of the top 5 i think. during the same time period as the building of Stan Hywet, akron roughly tripled in size-- construction for our ordinary houses was considerably different--- lot's and lots of stock millwork, houses built from pattern books, many Sears Kit Houses located in my neighborhood--- both Seiberling( Goodear Heights) and Firestone ( Firestone Park) developed really excellent neighborhoods for their work force within walking distance of their factories which are still desireable neighborhoods today. Quite pedestrian friendly , if built today they we doubtlessly be called examples of New Urbanism. I love pictures of old workplaces-- notice they clearly show that carpenters and tradesmen worked with very few hand tools on their person--cloth apron and maybe a hammer with them----- refusing to turn themselves into beasts of burden or walking hardware stores the way modern frammers or trimmers do.In my grandfathers day-- either side of WWI up to just after WWII-- in this town my dad says carpenters almost universally wore WHITE bib overalls---almost as a status symbol( this might be a local tradition as their contemporaries in the rubberfactories are reported to have worn white SILK shirts to show how much money they were making building tires. there was a certain degree of specialization--almost certainley the craftsman who carved Mr. Seiberlings linnenfold panneling did NOT also make the windows--and THAT guy almost certainley did NOT build the forms, or frame in walls or nail up acres of lath. I know grandpa HERE in akron bought all his doors and windows and assorted millwork( I still do business with some of the same yards--- however back in PA they did make some of those things- but only because they owned a lumberyard( specialization) so- the idea of one guy or group of guys taking a house from a hole in the ground to finish trim might be true in some areas-- but more a myth in other areas. Probably more true in lower end houses and much less true in higher end houses.
Have fun,
stephen
i don't think we should take the Gamble house as an example of how things WERE done- but rather how they COULD be done.
Stephen - seems a lot of posters misunderstood my original post, or just responded to the thread title. Which I do myself, sometimes. My original post, 'though, was inquiring as to what power tools were available at the turn of the century, what construction machinery was available, what lumber supply practises were in play, etc. Basically, what was the state of the art (construction technology) at that point in time, especially, I said, as regards the west coast, and most especially, I noted, as regards the work of John and Peter Hall, builders of the Gamble House.
So I got a lot of responses about common building practises, i.e. stud spacing, hand tool use, etc. Which is OK, its all good and informative, and like I always say, I'm here to learn. But I never for a moment imagined that the crew that built barns in the midwest swung by Pasadena and threw the Gamble House together with their handsaws, adzes and spokeshaves. =)
So...No, I wasn't implying that Gamble House is representative of how homes were commonly built. What I was saying is that I wanted to know what technology would have been available to the builders at the time it was built. Because we do know that it was built a hundred years ago, in 11 months, by a crew of about 20 men. But contemporary photos and descriptions of the jobsite and the work process are hard to come by.
I had heard that the Hall brothers were trained in traditional Scandinavian woodworking practises, but were open to applying all the modern methodology available to them, to achieve traditional results.
From what I now know, thanks largely to the great responses in this thread, my theory is that Gamble House was to a great extent pre-manufactured in Peter Hall's Pasadena furniture shop, using an array of state-of-the-art combustion powered belt-driven stationary power tools, and then reassembled on site by the aforementioned crew of 20 men (at any one give time, I assume - meaning not every worker stayed from foundation to cabinet pulls, but different workers were brought in as the work progressed).
For the wood to be pre-processed in a furniture shop would explain how the house itself was built to furniture-grade tolerances. In fact, short of a magic wand, its the only explanation I can imagine. As I said in another thread, if I took 20 of the best guys I've ever met in my 30 years of construction, I would be hard pressed to build a house like that, for any budget, using the best portable jobsite power tools, in 11 months.
However, if I had an additional separate crew working in a large nearby shop, pre-milling the lumber to furniture-grade tolerances with stationary power tools, and then shipping it to my jobsite crew to assemble on site, yeah, I could see how it could be done.
You have to understand that the owner of the furniture/cabinet shop was the brother of the General Contractor/builder. And these two had worked closely with the brothers Greene, and in fact had opened the furniture shop largely to provide work built to the stringent standards of Charles and Henry Greene. So you have 4 men on a very high plane of skill and creativity, working in synchronicity to produce the best that could be produced, within their given (and chosen) parameters.
As far as your comments about the socio/political motivations of the Arts and Crafts / Craftsman style, thats a whole 'nuther conversation there. I think its pertinent to know that, as regards Gamble House, the brothers Greene were sympathetic to the Craftsman movement, but by no means wholly defined by it.
Theirs was more of a "Zen and the Art of Creating a Positive Living Environment" type approach. Working for millionaire clients, they hardly embodied the socialist leanings that drove William Morris to react against the ostentatious ornamentation of the Victorian styles, or the streamlined sterility of the industrial movement. Rather, working for clients with deep pockets, they sought to produce a home as functional art, almost a fine-art sculpture to enhance the lives of its occupants.
It was an unusual, expensive, impractical, and ultimately short-lived approach. But wow, what they did accomplish in those few short years prior to WWI! View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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There are a fair amount of Craftsman/Arts and Crafts houses in my south Minneapolis neighborhood. Something that's interesting to me is the original owners, while not poor by any means, weren't necessarily all that rich either. For instance, my next door neighbor's house was designed in 1909 by Purcell and Feick (contemporaries of Louis Sullivan and Frank Lloyd Wright) and the original owner ran an automobile repair shop. These houses are pretty small by today's standards, but the detail and construction is impressive.
In the early 90's I moved into a house built in 1845. Looked like to me all the beams in this house were hand-hewn. Subfloor was smooth T&G. Roof was pine saplings, some not 2 inches at the peak.
Something that's interesting to me is the original owners, while not poor by any means, weren't necessarily all that rich either.
While the "ultimate bungalow" (a later term) houses of G & G were of necessity built for wealthy clientele, the principles of the Craftsman Style as developed by William Morris and espoused by Gustav Stickley were egalitarian by definition - at least as regards the small to medium sized bungalows that defined it. Well built houses, devoid of excessive ornamentation, constructed with honest and openly visible joinery.
View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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This might help answer your original Q.http://www.amazon.com/Woodworking-1600-1900-Contributions-History-Technology/dp/B0006BP7A6
Second try for workshop picture.
John
wow, that is cool? Is that from a book? Got any jobsite pictures?View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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I scanned it from a book. It's the only picture I've been able to find. I keep wondering what all those blocks are for. I'm surprised that they had such a large dust collection system. Don't know if you could see it, but the text says that gas engines powered shafts that drove the belts running the machinery. Must have been a noisy place.John
I had some windows reproduced by a mennonite craftsman running a belt-driven line shop off of a V-16. I was never there when it was up and running though. The sash he made were dead ringers for the circa 1863 sash that replaced the original circa 1823 windows when the place was extensively re-worked. It was moved and converted to a school in 1863 or so..Unfortunately he passed away and I don't know what became of the shop.Steve
My circa 1823 floorboards have roman numerals chiseled on the ends of some of them. In my particular instance, I think they were course numbers for when it took two or three boards to complete a course, because I'll see two butted end-to end with the same number on them. Only on some though. Not a lot.Steve
Mmoogie,
In my case, I don't think the roman numerals on the floor boards refer to course numbers. The numbers go up 10 or 12 and there aren't that many courses. My best guess is that the numbers were put there at the saw mill and refer to the number of board feet in that board. However, that's only a guess.
ChipTam
Im a little surprised to see they had dust collection back then.
I can't get back to 1900, but to the mid 1930s first hand. I don't think their was much advancement between 1900 and 1935.
My Dad hired the three local Swedes in the area of s MN. to build a 50' by probably 30' building. They used no electric tools. We had a Kohler plant at that time, [way ahead of the neighbors]. As kids we could not turn on a light switch in the day time because the Kohler plant would kick in automatically. It would kick in in the day time as it was when the well pump ran and that was designed with an enormous air tank that would pump the water and would not need to run every time water was used but only to replenish the air pressure.
Anyway, it was pretty neat for an 11 year old farm boy to act as the guys gopher [go-for]. I remember it very well, I suppose because it was a highlite in my summer. One fellow never hardly moved anything but his right arm. He was about a 275-300 pounder and sat on a stool and sawed all day. And sweat. What he said was what they did. He was the undisputed boss man. The third fellow crawled around like a monkey with a hammer and a pocket full of nails. He never came down maybe only for lunch and being very skinny I don't think he ate much. He drank considerable though and some days he didn't make it. On those days the other two just worked on the low stuff.
The number two guy was kind of normal size and weight and would bring material to # 1 and then hand some to # 3 as necessary. He'd help some on either end to balance the work load. There was no tools other than hand tools and # 1 guy would insist that they quit on their quitting time because he said he sharpened all his tools in the evening.
These guys did excellent work and they worked hard. Windows were purchased and all the doors were site made. This building was a hip roof barn but built for hogs. It looked a lot like the barn Mike H Smith pictured. We had a couple feet of straw in the loft and when it was full of pigs it was nice and comfortable even at 30º below.
I started doing drywall and plaster in '77 and worked almost exclusively on Victorians in San Francisco.
While the old adage "They don't build them like that anymore" may be true, I was always surpised by some methods I ran across. Seeing rafters at 32", 2x4 headers and under sized floor joists was not uncomon. walls framed at random centers also.
I always wondered how antone could have nailed wood lathing up, those nails aren't even an inch long. I used to have a hard time fingering 1-1/4"ers hanging rock.
Atatched are some old drywall labels someone from this board ucovered and posted, check out the instructions.
Here is a shot of the earthquake cottages being built after the big one. They were lived in as they stood and then many were sold and moved to new locations. These go for 500K now! I know someone that had one in the eighties.
View Image
Aother of the rebuilding, gotta save the tavern!
View Image
Rebuilding Memorial Chuch at Stanford University. Steel frame around original stone structure;
View Image
Interesting link; http://www.laborheritage.org/Rebuilding%20San%20Francisco.htm
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I always wondered how antone could have nailed wood lathing up, those nails aren't even an inch long. I used to have a hard time fingering 1-1/4"ers hanging rock.
lotsa child labor to do that job....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
huck,
if you are assuming that considerable portions of the house components were fabricated off site------ then the house is certainley interesting, certainley admirable----- but perhaps not all that remarkable.
look at all the victorian era bric-a brac ,gingerbread trim that was available as a standard ordered item. A good sized lumberyard and millwork shop would have all sorts of power equipment available to it.
Perhaps the major difference between then and now------ are probably how much more portable stuff is now and thereby available on site( say a router on site instead of a huge shaper in a mill or a skill saw instead of a huge lumber mill Circ. Saw.)
I have some of my grandpas tools that are at their earliest roughly contempoary to the era you are interested in
curiously--some of his planes were probably old,obsolete"bargains" he picked up as a young man( several sizes of wooden planes) mixed in with what must have been modern Bailey planes that he probably picked up later. I also have what must have been one of the first Skillsaws that he had---- it's a monster huge thing( I would hate to use it---but I have)--- it might be one of the last tools he actually bought before he died. I still have his ladder jacks which i would never use-they are in scary shape-- but very similar models are still available-- and I have his slaters jacks which I use every year--in combo with some very similar ones I purchased more recently.
My family still owned his house untill the late '70's. I remember he had a nice sized office,shop out back. My dad said he had a LOT of tools and presumably priceless lumber still stored there decades after grandpa passed away. my grandmother( a nastier woman never lived) gave it all away to somebody in the 60's- early 70's that did some handyman work on the place---so the only tools we have today of his are whatever my dad had "borrowed" before grandma gave it all away.
stephen
if you are assuming that considerable portions of the house components were fabricated off site------ then the house is certainley interesting, certainley admirable----- but perhaps not all that remarkable.
Fuuny. That's like saying if the paint Van Gogh used was just a factory produced off the shelf variety, then his paintings aren't perhaps all that remarkable! ...but that's just my opinion. (I happen to be a Van Gogh fan.)View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
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not a Van Gogh fan myself, LOL but as you describe it--- the process you are assuming---- is much the same as done today---it's just a matter of degree. countertops fabricated elswhere, doors fabricated elswhere, windows fabricated elswhere, stairways fabricated elsewhere and so on. quite accurate machine tools existed in that era in other industries--almost certainley their counterparts were in use in millright shops in that era- and model and pattern makers in THIS era and that era could routinely produce complex work miles beyound cabinet making standards---so interesting and admirable yes--- but remarkable--- maybe not in my opinion keep in mind Mike Smiths remarks on 10,000 hours to perfect a skill---and keep in mind those guys were everybit as smart as you--and simply miles smarter than ME--AND keep in mind that they probably had been working at there respective trades 10-12 hours a day since they were 15-16 years old...........
given the oportunity, I would EXPECT them to be capable of fit and finish of the very highest order-- why not?
Stephen
I used to renovate old houses in New Orleans and it seems every one was built differently. Usually the framing was heart pine that makes nails dance, sometimes cypress. The trim was all old growth cypress. There was plenty of balloon framing and often there was an angled beam let into a stud wall as bracing.
Since we're talking about "how" -- some of the old houses were built with "barge boards." These were boards that were literally used to build old wooden barges for shipping things down the Mississippi River to New Orleans. It didn't make sense to try to push them back upriver, so they disassembled them and built houses with the barge boards. These were 2 or 3 inch thick boards 24" or more wide and they were stood vertically for single story or balloon-framed (if you can call it that) two story houses. The walls were solid wood. Much of the wood was cypress but I've seen polar and oak too. Here's some information and pictures here:
http://bywater.org/Arch/bargeboard.htm
http://neworleans.craigslist.org/mat/1003631467.html
I'm not sure if barge board houses were built anywhere else in the country.
I've seen some beautiful interior walls made out of barge boards. The wood would be wire brushed and lightly sanded and sealed. The grain and color were gorgeous.
My Dad's Dad had a commercial wood shop in New Orleans in the early 1900s. They made Victorian trim, moldings, doors, and trim. It employed dozens of people but he died when my Dad was 10 years old and they lost the business. I've never seen any photos of the place. My parents have a round mahogany table that my grandfather built. It is about 4 feet wide and about 2 1/2 inches thick, and made from a single slab of mahogany. My Dad said that his Dad had the slab under his house (raised house in New Orleans) and pulled it out one day to make a table. The slab top doesn't show a hint of a crack or warp, even after it got caught in the Katrina floodwater for a couple of weeks.
Billy
Edited 2/3/2009 10:49 pm ET by Billy
Billy-- that IS cool up here a barge board or a barge rafter is what other people might call a " fly rafter"--- it is usually a 5/4 board,outermost on a gable end overhang maybe interesting to you--- one of the first houses I roofed was built out of lumber reclaimed from a canal boat. the Ohio and Erie Canal ran through Akron, making it possible to ship freight from Lake Erie to the Ohio river-----and eventually to New Orleans. Our canal-once built rapidly was made obsolete by railroads---- but actually stayed in operation untill about the first decade of the 1900's when record floods caused problems locally here and many of the locks were dynamited so-the huse from the canal boat here--was probably built After that-maybe 1913 or so.- i do remember very clearly that one bay window was decked with lumber from an old beer crate.
Btw-- the house was located several miles from the canal-----and up a serious hill in a neighborhood called(logically) North Hill.
stephen
Steve,
That's cool too -- I guess everyone back then was serious about recycling that good old barge lumber. I imagine you could build a house or two from all of the lumber in a wooden barge. Nowadays they just buy a metal shipping container and move right in...
Billy
Remodeled a house here that had studs made out of salvaged lumber from a wooden cradle that held a long cylindrical tank.
Each 2 x 6 piece of the cradle was cut to fit the cylinder so when they built the house they sistered two pieces together flat edges opposite each other which resulted in a 5' tall by 2 1/2 " wide "cats eye" opening in the "studs" in the middle of the wall. Funniest thing was the owner just kept on and on about how they don't build things as well today, nor use the quality of lumber like they used to in the old days. Electrician loved it though!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
there is an Island in North Carolina that I have spent a LOT of time on since the 1960's when I was maybe 3 or 4 years old. I haven't spent as much time there as i would like----and I haven't spent as much time there as I am gonna-- but it adds up so far anyhow-- the local historical society has a book in it's museum that the national park compiled-- which of the older houses were built out of WHICH shipwrecks
most all of the older houses there are quite small-- probably under 800 sq. feet A family friend when I was a kid owned one of the older ones that we rented a few times--- since then i have rented many times one of the last ones built out of a ship wreck
this recycling is totally old school--especially on a barrier island.
stephen
I have seem some similar techniques here in NE PA, little "company" houses built by coal companies for their employees. We call em Plank Houses.
i worked on a home built on the hills/cliffs of laguna beach. It was a solid pour in place concrete. all mixed on site. No concrete trucks. just model T's hauling raw materials up and down the roads. The home still has the walls and ceilings with the wood impressions of the form lumber. No plaster. just raw sealed conctere. The windows were are cast in place when the concrete was poured. all heating were Cadet style resisitant heaters poured in place too. Floors were hard troweled with area rugs. i believe the water were a bronze/ brass, but not sure if I remeber correctly.
Amazing how the home has stayed about the same, little if any cracking considering earthquake country.
The archy that designed the home, was located in New york and never saw the land/views of the ocean and back canyons.
Interesting topic.... Don't know anything about it, but interesting...
It was hard to imagine that power tools were available in the early 1900s so I did a little Googling....
This article says that the first portable circular saw was invented in the 1920s and that the first Model 77 SkilSaw came out in 1937. I don't know if I'd believe it though because it's written by a guy named Frenchy... ;-)
This article says "To get around the Skil patents, Art Emmons of Porter-Cable invented the direct-drive sidewinder saw in 1928."
This article says "The invention of the first electric drill is credited to Mr. Arthur James Arnot and William Blanch Brain [1], in 1889, at Melbourne, Australia. Wilhelm Fein[2] invented the portable electric drill in 1895, at Stuttgart, Germany. In 1917, Black & Decker patented a trigger-like switch mounted on a pistol-grip handle.[3]"
This web page shows "woodworking machines" from as far back as around the 1920s.
Kinda confirms what I thought - if the house was built with power tools, they were stationary power tools in the shop. Could be done, with close collaboration between shop and site. This is what I think HAD to be the case. Can't see any other way of getting those kind of tolerances in the time frame they worked with.View ImageView Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Back around '77-'78, I read an article in FWW on the Gamble House. After reading it, I went out and spent over $50 (the better part of a day's wage) on two books by Randall Makinson, the then curator of the Gamble House. Visiting it has been on my bucket list for over 30 years now. I finally made it there this last August, when I was out dropping my daughter off for her first year at Occidental College. The tour was a bargain (I think $10 a head), and the docent was knowledgeable. But the house was built with 16v lighting, IIRC, and it's pretty dim in there. The docents carry flashlights, though, so if you want to zero in in you can always say, "Wait a minute, what about this over here?"I'll definitely take another tour next time I travel the 3000 miles out there from Michigan, but I'll bring my own flashlight.If you do some Web research, you can probably save the cost of the local Greene and Greene map that they sell there --there's a lot of their houses, many within one block of the Gamble House, including Charles's own house.The Gamble House is, I believe, the only G & G house open to the public, but hey, drive around and check out a few of the others from the street.AitchKay
<The Gamble House is, I believe, the only G & G house open to the public>
I know you're talking about in the Pasadena area, but I'll throw out the Thorsen House in Berkeley.
There are docent guided tours a few times a year, and the fraternity (Sigma Fry, er Phi) that currently inhabits the space is pretty dedicated to preserving and displaying, so I bet if you called ahead and asked nicely, they'd let you look, take pictures, etc... There's beer in the vending machine, IIRC.
Nowhere near the level of interior detail of the Gamble house, but really cool spaces and structural/"structural" elements. In surprisingly good condition for a frat house. Some of the frat brothers even joined with a local furniture company (Berkeley Mills) in recreating the original dining room chairs.
k
I wondered these same types of things when we toured the Biltmore House. The construction of that "house" is just a large comglomoration of one piece of "art" after another. In that case I'm sure they had an on-site machine shop - of sorts - although IIRC that house was built in the 1890s. If you ever come to NC you have got to see it.
I remodeled an 1895 ranch house style 2 story design in the Spokane area over a 20 year period. It was built on a rock foundation, mostly crawlspace w/ a small basement (probably a root cellar originally). It was baloon framed construction w/ full 2x4 studs. I think the 2nd floor was 2x8 floor joists. I had interesting window framing. All they did was clip the stud match the cut piece and use the two on either side of the window ... no header of any sort at all ... just the stud coming down above the window! No sill framing either. Not sure how they got away w/ this on load bearing walls, but really had no plaster cracking issues. Even when I stripped walls and then reinstalled gyp bd never really had a problem.
Had a garage out back ... neighbors said it used to be a horse barn (the house was about 5 blocks from a horse race track (converted to a park). I had a dirt floor in the garage ... so got tired of that after a while ... so I poured a slab inside the old walls, erected new walls on 3 sides and popped the old walls off (my roof was fairly new, so I didn't want to replace it). I put in a loft room ... sweet!
first pi is 1909 sorry about the quality,2nd is how i found it 3rd is how i left it
You need to re-size photofiles down to about a tenth of that large if you want folks to see them. about a third of us can't download such large stuff.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
it's a nicely restored Victorian - you know - with the witches hat and all that... If you can take the time to look at 1 pic look at pic number 1277. What baud rate is your modem? 56k? How long does it take a 1000kb file to download?
BTW - the pics he posted are the type that are way too big to fit on the screen, so, if you are using IE you might want do the right click and "open in new window" thing.
Edited 2/6/2009 7:17 am ET by Matt
Iuse mozilla open in new tab. tabs use less resources than windows.56K but line runs about 30-40KI might have come acrss as a bit rude the way I said that before, but there are so many articles all over the place explaining that it is rude to send oversized photos by email etc and many of the programs now hae a single button re-sizer to make it easy that I can't understand why people still do that.I noticed that on the SPLASH forum they limit size of attachments to only 50KBs I love that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
no i didnt think you were rude my mistake ima ng. ill get it right here eventually i hope.Seems like a more polite forum than im used too thank again for the tip
Edited 2/6/2009 10:44 am ET by tomstruble
No worries. Large files aren't acceptable to many. I remember once when a guy said "yea - I took a bunch of pic of the project." I said: "OK, good - E-mail 'em to me." Turned it was like 70 pics that were 6meg each!!! Filled up the mail server (or at least my account's allocation) and I had to log into the mail server manually and delete some stuff to get my E-mail working again....
BTW - What's the splash form?
splash form = "Splash Forum" = registered Softplan users groupMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
thanks...
http://splash.softplansplsh.org/front/main.htm
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Here....
took about 4 minutes. That may be why people post big ones. Either that, or they don't know better.
sorry i didnt know
I might be one of the ones who sometimes posts big ones because I just don't feel like taking the time to resize.
OTOH, when I take digi pictures I often take duplicates - low resolution for E-mailing and posting on web sites, and hi-res for keppers, printing out, etc. For example, I think one of the basics of web site design is that you wouldn't ever put something on your web site that most anyone couldn't look at. Often it's a thumbnail with a "click picture to see full size" kinda deal.
I often shoot high res, but first thing I do when I download the camera is name, file, and resize duplicates
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
oh ok thankyou
View Image
94969.19 In the beginning there was Breaktime...
94969.1 Photo Gallery Table of Contents
Edited 2/6/2009 11:50 am ET by rez
Lost a lot when they hanged from 4" clap to that wide faced siding, didn't it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yep, shure enough.
I think those finer points of detail are what made Vickies stand out so much over the years. Losing the smaller claps lost something.
Always enjoy viewing paint schemes on the redone painted ladies where who knows how many shades and colors might be used on a paint job.
Then they go and add fine point gold flake to the porch balausters or something like that.
Might have been better than asbestos shingles tho'.Might have been.
94969.19 In the beginning there was Breaktime...
94969.1 Photo Gallery Table of Contents
Edited 2/6/2009 8:52 pm ET by rez
i tried to talk the homeowner into new cedar he wasnt intrested
I have a four volume set of "Audels Carpenters and Builders Guide" from 1927. Power tools are big, stationary tools with a hand held electric drill motor beign the only tool of that type. The section on foundations shows how to use a contractors plow and team of mules to level a site. No metion of plywood. No pre-fab trusses. It shows the right and wrong ways to drive a cut nail. Really is quite facinating. How to cut mortice and tennon joints in timber frames. It's endless.
I bought a similar set of Audels several years ago----.
I found them interesting because most of my projects are on houses built in the 1920's
stephen
Huck, Were getting old! Its more like how were houses built a 125 years ago?
Lou C
Huck, Were getting old! Its more like how were houses built a 125 years ago?
Got me there. Maybe I should have said, How were houses built 50 years before I was born!View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I grew up in Western Washington, a lot of houses built around the turn of the century had 4" diameter poles for studs and rafters. Siding was hand-split Red Cedar boards. Roofing was, of course, Cedar shakes. The only sawn lumber was the floor, usually Doug Fir. Foundations were just Cedar logs on the gound, levelled with flat rocks. We found newspapers stuffed in the walls of a bunkhouse for insulation, printed by the Seattle Times - in German for all the German farmers in the area.
wow, it would be cool to see some pics if you have any!View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Sorry, that was a looong time ago. However, on the humorous side. About 15 years ago, we lived about a mile from one of the old, original homesteads in Sequim, WA. One particularly "bad" spring, the 8' dia. log the front of the house was built on slid a couple of feet. Yes, the house was built in the mid to late 1800's on a steep hill. The front of the house rested on a big log. After studying it for a couple of days, the owner got a couple of jacks & a beam, lifted the front of the house, then a neighbor with a cat pushed the log back into place. I don't recall what he used for stakes, but he also drove some big, long, stakes (probably pipe or rebar) in the ground to keep it from sliding again. FYI if you're in the area, it's the old Kreider homestead in the Lost Mountain area of Sequim. Still there :-)