Today I politely asked my drywall guy if he could come over friday instead of thursday to do his first skim and block work. I asked because tommorrow is the only day I can get my flooring installed and laying oak in a 200 sq.ft. room will take alot longer than skimming the same room. He proceedes to get all irate and tells me to “grow a pair, and make up my mind.” Now I didn’t tell him what I wanted to, simply because one of us had to be proffesional about the situation. Anyway, he’s changing his schedule to make it over before the flooring installers. My question to you is this, should I inform my boss first thing before the drywall guy gets there? should I tell the drywaller that our company doesnt deal with people who get angry over a simple yes or no questions and that I don’t want him on my project with that attitude, or, should I let bygones be bygones? any input would be very helpful thanks.
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Replies
You probably should do something, but I would recommend that you respond the way that he would least expect. With kindness. There's a good chance that he was having a bad day and your call (unfortunately) came right at the climax of the day that he couldn't wait to be done with. Or, maybe your request was unreasonable. If it really was a big problem for him than you should know about it. Next time you can work together to come to a equitable solution. Either way, Mention to him that he came on a little strong when you talked with him and ask him if there's anything you can help him with. Most likely, he will apologize. If that's the case, you now have not only the situation resolved but also a closer relationship with him. Anything you can do to endear yourself to your subs is bound to help you later on. If nothing else, it will be two human beings working out conflict in a decent manner instead of the alternative- being defensive, shouting, name calling, etc. We all know where this leads to and how unproductive it ultimately is.
Edited 10/2/2002 7:26:48 PM ET by Jon Blakemore
Well said, Jon. We need a little more of that in the trades.
DRC
A little more info nate. Is he working full day on the job now? Is this just a one room thing or a whole house? Do you have any problem with his work and / or normal scheduling? And why didn't you figure your schedule change out until today? Oak floor before drywall finishing/paint? A bigger picture might help in coming to a conclusion. Thanks.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
calvin, it's a 200sq.ft. sunroom off of a kitchen 26 boards total. The reason for the last minute scheduling problem is because the floor was supposed to be in yesterday and my sales rep failed to call me and tell me they could'nt be there when they were supposed to. I having it all done so close together because the homeowner is 8 months pregnant and has moved to the inlaws during construction. Don't ask why they chose now for an addition I don't knoiw why, but they did. anyway i want all sanding (floors and walls) to be done the same week so they can get the house back together before the birth.
Wow hot topic. Three comments in the fist 23 minutes! I pretty much liked what I read and I agree wholeheartly "don't burn any bridges yet".
While the guys reaction and behavior were boorish, crude and un-professional being a trade contractor myself I can understand what he thinking and feeling. You ambushed him.
Your giving him 24 hours notice to change his schedule? That's grossly unfair and an unprofessional on your part too. When you asked did you couch your question with an apology? 24 hrs is hardly enough time to allow the guy to schedule something else in it's place so he may just be seeing it as you laying him off for a day. Did you offer to compensate him for his lost day or make it up to him in some other way?
View Image
I don't paint things. I only paint the difference
between things.--Henri
Matisse
Sounds to me like you are the one pushing the schedule too close. I understand the reasoning in trying to satisfy the client but you've got to be real with the subs too. The good ones I know generally don't tolerate having two trades same place same time..
Excellence is its own reward!
nate, best of luck.
Good subs are hard to find. Easy to keep if you're straight up and fair. I think you're gonna regret it if you blow this thing up. Not the least of which will be finishing on time. If this is the first run in with the guy, chalk it up to experience. He's showing up. I figure you won.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I doubt anyones reading this anymore, but it's not about winning or losing, It's about a newborn having to breathe the dust our jobs generate. Iv'e decided that I don't care what the guy thinks, he's paid to do a job just like you or me. I know no one cares about the pressures of time that I've had to deal with on this project but !@#$ rolls downhill and I am sorry if it affects this guy, but it affected me, my electrician,my hvac, my plumber, and finally my drywall guy. All I've had great working relationships with for well over three years. These customers are paying parts of all our bills and they come second, their baby comes first! All of the subcontractors have been informed of the situation with the home owners and thier expectant child. They know the time schedule that I'm dealing with and if they/he can't deal with that then i guess I'm in a bad spot and the addition won't be what the customers are paying for. Sad thing is .......... it's only 200 sq.ft.
Nate, I've also gotten to wondering this "special premium accelerated service delivery " that you are proividing this customer with,... did your company charge a premium for it?
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I don't paint things. I only paint the difference
between things.--Henri
Matisse
Nate,
I understand your position oh too well. Not too long ago I was the guy making the calls to reschedule subs on behalf of my boss. Its one of the reasons I hit the road. My former employer was notorious for last minute scheduling changes. I was the guy that caught the heat from the subs. Speaking from experience I just wonder whether or not you are forced to deal with this situation too often. Is this a first time thing or a problem that continues and repeats regularly?
Labor and installation is easy, proper scheduling can be hard. But it can also make or brake jobs.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Been a while since I had an active job in the trades. But when I was working full time, I learned to generaly try to stay away from those who could not hold their own !@#$.
I figured out after a while that those who held tightly to the attitude that the !@#$ rolled downhill, were the ones who were 1. least able to hold their own, 2 just making an excuse for their own inability/unwillingness to learn to hold thier own, and 3. least able to handle that of others which they encountered on the job.
First. learn to hold your own.
Then learn to push that stuff back uphill, instead of letting it affect you or the people who work for you. (Probably what your drywall guy meant when he said for you to grow a pair.)
Continue to let that stuff roll downhill, and soon you will find yourself with no downhill left. Not too many subs out there willing to go on working in that stuff, once it gets piled past a certain point.
It is difficult enough to try to do a good job and make any sort of profit, without having to deal with the crap rolling downhill. Changing the job into something that you did not agree to in the first place. Nor would you have, if that had been the way that it had been presented in the first place.
Your response to Tim may be indicative of how you handle yourself at work. Your response completely bypassed the point to his post. You used to do paint and trim work, big whoop. Whether you have done any finish work before was not his point. His point was that you should put yourself in the shoes of this particular sub. Look at it from his angle. You made a major change in the work. One that has many consequences that you simply haven't considered at all.
Your response does have relevance in the fact that since you have been in shoes similar to that of your sub's, before... Then you really SHOULD be able to understand what kind of consequences this sort of change in the job schedule can have. You SHOULD be able to directly put yourself in the shoes of the sub. That you haven't... May speak volumes to why you are having problems in the first place.
If you would put yourself in his shoes, you may still need to have the job done at the time that you do, but you may also take a bit different approach in dealing with the sub.
The 'right' way to deal with it would be to push the "!@#$" back where it came from. Give the subs compensation for the change in the schedule. Tell your "sales rep" that he will be expected to pay that compensation. The 'emergency' was his. He was to be there on a certain date. Because he didn't get to you on that date, it is now going to cost you, and by rights, he should be paying for that delay, and not you.
THEN tell the subs about the difference in schedule, and at the same time that you gracefully ask them to change their schedules, you offer them the compensation for the change.
...
All that said and done, I am left wondering...
Is it possible that the drywall sub never knew you intended to have a finished floor in before he showed up ? You DID tell him that when you hired him, right ?
The fact that he changed his schedule to make it BEFORE the floor guys should tell you that he does prefer to do the work over an unfinished floor. Just as any other drywall sub would.
But then, you already knew that, didn't you ? I mean, you DID consider the type of work the guy had to do, and how it would affect or be affected by other aspects of the job... All before you ever hired him in the first place, and then made up your job schedule, right ?
Cut me some slack here
Quittin' Time
Luka great post! I have to say calling a sub at the last minute is not always great. It is easier to say don't come tomorrow then to say can you come tomorrow. Most subs can go to another job if you have to cancel, but to ask the sub to hop over like that is almost too much. For him to say make up your mind have you already had to reschedule before? Hope that it works out. I have to say I feel for you having to hurry and get it done, but you did take on the job and you had to have known it would be like this. Nothing ever goes 100% right.Tamara
First of all Nate, almost everybody involved in the construction business has had scheduling problems of some sort. And yes, we are still reading, and learning from the thread. Don't get all defensive if not all of us take your side either, or come across a little on the rough side. Communications and feeling are not two of our best traits here at BREAKTIME, but as a rule we do try to be helpful. I say that there is plenty of blame to go around.
1. HOme owners timing was not good, but they are at an emotional high and not always thinking clearly, and not contractors either I bet.
2. YOu took the job, knowing problems could arise, now deal with it. That is what you get paid for. Suggest staying at inlaws a little longer, they get extra help with the newborn.
3. Sheetrocker should have said no, politely, and then tried to work out an acceptable plan for all. I like above suggestion, hit up the sales rep, and then pass it on to those directly affected.
None of this will bother anybody a year from now, so let up a little and try to finish on good terms with all. No losers, or winners, just another job well done, as close to schedule as possible, and try to learn for the next time, cuz you know it will happen again sooner or later.
Dan The only way to get foolproof help, is to do it all yourself!!
Nate-
I would have shot the bastard on the spot and hung him from the apple tree out front. I am not saying kill him 'cause all the moaning and crying will help show people you mean business...
DUGPUGSKNUCK just wondering is that a serious answer or are you just joking around a little?
View Image
I don't paint things. I only paint the difference
between things.--Henri
Matisse
I thought it seemed out of place too, but it was surely meant to be sarcastic..
Excellence is its own reward!
what's outta place about shooting and hanging a guy that tells ya to get a set?
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
I found a serious bone in my body and had it surgically removed.
My answer to the original question is make sure that your subs have the materials and direction so they can make a living in a timely way and don't take XXXX from anyone.
I have never been a super- my jobs I am King- nobody talks to me that way- cause I make sure they have what they need when they need and always always always pay on time.
On the rare occasion I bet grief from someone they are gone
Wrong! it is not about a Baby, dont hide behind the baby
Nate i like all the peaceable solutions mentioned, i read the things about the floor, and the pregnant women, none of which are the drywallers problem. His only mistake was to not responde professionally. i saw a sign i n a window place
"Your emergancy is not our problem" Take care
nate.. i agree with jon.... don't burn any bridges.. especially if you haven't crossed them yet...give him the benefit of the doubt and resolve it in his favor... then you have one in your book.. not his..
the thing that i have come to realize is what goes around , comes around... if you can leave 'em smilin , you win...there is ALWAYS another day
and you can make a game out of it... how to move a sub from the adversary column to the ally column... we need all the friends we can get
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the input guys, You are right I should consider that I probably messed his day up, I 'll be nice and apologize and I will mean it, but knowing that it wasn't really anything that I did, except ask a question he could've just said no to, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No biggie, just another day on the job!
Ya know just the fact that you are asking the question and getting outside input on an issue like this speaks well for you nate. I think I may have only recently learned that the "how would you handle... " type questions are some of the most important questions we can ask with the most valuable answers.
View Image
I don't paint things. I only paint the difference
between things.--Henri
Matisse
I guess it takes a finisher to bring out the other half of the story . You dont bring to the table all the facts . Is this guy working by the hour for YOU? Whose gonna pay ?
Since you dont mention it , let me tell these fine readers what you have done to him.
He had a job by himself . He had a bare floor. He could have cleaned the floor easily with a scraper in about 5 minutes as it stood. The floor people will be there a week, with an awful mess . You Sir dont bring any feeling to the table over the deal he had . You change it to a covered plastic floor , screw up his schedule , and put floor people in his way which you said will take a week. I would like you to learn to finish sheet rock your self . Have you ever walked a slick wet plastic floor on stilts ? Let me tell you that he wont be doing it . I will hold my tounge for the rest of what I am thinking.
Now him . He had no right what so ever to act as he did . No excuse . I however would have left you with an understanding.
Tim Mooney
hey Tim, just to let you know, I got my start in custom painting. spent six years on the "finish end" before I made the move to carpentry. "Caulk and putty make what a carpenter ain't" sound familiar?
I suggest you should have told the drywall finisher the whole story and made him out to be the "savior of the day" by doing the drywall thing sooner.
My thoughts run as follows:
Giving a guy less than 24 hours notice regarding a schedule change is unreasonable.
Telling someone to "grow a pair" is out of line.
Taking the attitude that "!@#$ rolls downhill" and the sub is going to have to deal with it is a poor way to do business. Sure doesn't show much respect for the other guy. How would you feel if he had done the same to you?
Also - Why did the HO wait so long to get the addition going? If they waited too long, they'll have to deal with the dust IMHO. Doing jobs in a "crisis management" situation is hard on everybody.
BTW - Yes, everybody IS still reading this. It should hit 50 or 60 posts by the weekend.
When push comes to shove, somebody's gonna figure out that "push" and "shove" mean the same dang thing.
If dust is the main point of concern, just keep the newborn out of the room and do dust control. It makes no difference how old the occupants are, they should not be subjected to dust migrating throughout the house and they have no business being in your work area. Standards in remodeling nowadays. .
Excellence is its own reward!
Just wanted tosay thank ALL of you for the help, that's why I came here. I've only been in charge of running the smaller additions for this company for a year and things have been running smooth, until this project. I did have my doubts before I began the building but I get a little headstrong sometimes (as you already know) and I thought 200 sq.ft., no problem, easy job. First week I hit marine clay and had to dig down three extra feet in 98+ degree weather by hand, that's when I knew this was going to be a little difficult.
I'm sorry if I offended any tradesmen/women cause your right, I have been in my drywall guys position before, I do know what it's like to be pushed around and still show up smiling. We talked this morning and everything is good, we got a little personal and it turns out we were both having really bad weeks outside of work. Like I said before, I've known these guys for over three years and this was a first, and a last.
My guys know that I'm green in the managment end of things and they've been great in telling me exactly what they need to get their work done right and on time and I've been trying damn hard to help them best I can and after this week I'm going to do better. I forget who said it in this post but you're sooooo right , I need to push that !@#$ back uphill !!!! That IS what I get paid for!
again my apologies to all I offended and to sort of quote Piffin "you're execellence is my reward!" nate
Well done son!
Now try to bring in your next problem before it is a problem. We'll wave the magic wand.....
Excellence is its own reward!
I am going to mirror Piffin here.
Well done, son !!!
I am thoroughly impressed.
I look forward to further input from you here at Breaktime. Maybe next time one of us will be the ones thanking you for the advice.
Well done, well met, and welcome.
: )Cut me some slack here
Quittin' Time
Luka , Well said man you hit the nail on the head! a few posts back
nate,
Make sure you come back and join these discussions. And post some pics of that place when it's done. The new baby. too would be cool. Best of luck.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
A great Lead Carp is a good buffer between the boss' and the subs. Do what ya can to make everyone else happy..and suddenly your job is easier...if they give back in turn.
A happy job site is a productive job site.
And no yelling....I have one rule in life....No one yell's at me!
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Nate, I don't work in the building trades -- I'm a Project Manager in a computer courseware company. But I read this thread with great interest, and I plan to share some of it with my staff.
We face this kind of thing all the time. The Testing department has contractors hired to test the Reading project starting Monday, and we're not sure we can have the Reading project ready for them by Monday. The Math project has priority, and the programmers and artists are still working on Math. Sometimes tempers run hot. In our business, the big danger is the flaming e-mail, especially when copied too far up the management ladder.
The posts about not burning bridges, about compromise, about "think how the other guy feels," are all right on for any business.
Thanks to everyone for clarifying some of my thoughts, and giving me some examples I can use to make a point with my folks.
EllenVic
Wouldn't be cadcourse, would it?.
Excellence is its own reward!
Nope, not a cadcourse, though I'd love to. We do basic skills courseware, Reading, Writing, Math from kindergarten through calculus. It's PLATO Learning, Inc. PLATO software has been around for 30+ years, and we just keep making it better.
I've noticed that the examples used for Microsoft Project (the tool I use for planning and management) are almost always from the building trades: "You have to finish the walls before you can do the floor," that sort of thing. It always seemed pretty clear-cut compared to "building" software, and I envied you guys. And gals. From this string, I'm learning that our jobs are probably not that different.
Maybe.
I mean we do pull walls apart to get at bugs (like the nail that went through the plumbing line or electric wire) just like Billyboy Gates pulls windows apart to "fix" it for us.
;-)
Hope to see more of you. People who appreciate excellence in any endeavor have something in common here..
Excellence is its own reward!
It's the little things that get you! As I am sure you know, it is the little "opportunities" that accumulate to make a tough day, week , month, year, lifetime. I have a motto that I picked up a long time ago from a guy like Piffin ( this is a compliment based on my image of Piffin ;-) ). He saw me getting very upset at a series of minor setbacks. He came over smiling and said, "Son, There are no problems, only opportunities to excell in your field". "Why don't you take this opportunity and show them what you're really made of?" Well, I did make it work out. It was costly to me but the customers raves later bought me more work than I could have chased down in 2 years! As Cher said about having a great body, "If it was easy everybody would have one!" It's the little things and how you respond to or direct them that seperates the boys from the men! Sounds like you just left the boys behind! Good job!!!
Miami
Thanks for the compliment.
But what does Cher know about a good looking body?
She's never seen me!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Nate,
He showed you no respect. You owe him nothing. If he can't explain his feelings in a civil manner and that bothers you, don't use him.
DVC