Replies

1. 
   Cole_Dean | Feb 03, 2001 06:26am | #1

   *
   Hammer

   Question is: Did you have 2-3 herniated discs prior to the fall. Only a MRI prior to the accident will tell. That is what their comp company is trying to find out. If your employer ends up settling the claim, their experience mod goes up and so do their rates. Therefore, their profit margin goes down. They probably just want to verify the claim. On top of that it's an insurance company, they shed their skins every spring. They'll do anything to find a reason not to pay. Its a tough situation, IMHO, comp has created some pretty sticky employer-employee relations.

   MY DOS CENTAVOS

   COLE

1. 
   Don_Hamel | Feb 03, 2001 06:43am | #2

   *C.H., speaking as a manager who had almost 150 people reporting to him and having seen my share of 'odd' injuries, let me give you my take on this. First of all, if you have in fact complained of back pain prior to the accident then they have grounds to believe that you merely aggravated a prior injury and thus their Workers Comp rates shouldn't go up. Also, that places them in a better position if you should sue. Makes you look like a schmuck who's trying to screw them out of some dough for an injury that occurred off duty. Never, ever, ever let anyone at work know that you hurt yourself off your present job. It will come back to haunt you if you do get hurt at work.Second, there's probably nothing personal here if you were a good employee before. It's just a case of CYA.Third, witnesses aren't always what they're cracked up to be. Your witness needs a job, doesn't he? Why did the ladder twist? Because it was defective or because it was placed improperly or because you leaned out too far? If the witness saw the accident why didn't he do something to prevent it? Does he share part of the blame and thus should be the recipient of some sort of disciplinary action? Is the witness a friend of yours? If so, wouldn't he lie for you? Witnesses can also be a liability.

1. 
   Jim_Walters | Feb 03, 2001 01:03pm | #3

   *Hammer,In Ohio, Workers Comp rarely pays unless you hire a lawyer. If the company's going to fight your case, that makes it worse. Get a good Comp lawyer.My wife fell on the job (ice) blew a couple of discs. Whittnessed and sent to the hospital by ambulance, the company didn't contest, but Comp. screwed with her every step of the way untill we had to hire a lawyer. It's still a pain in the ass, dealing with them. Two operations later and still fighting about the ligitimacy of the thing, plus lost files, incompetent help etc. etc. a freaking nitemare. I'm was still getting bills from them 5 years after I sold my share of a partnership and semi-retired. I have "nothing" good to say about W.C.Beaucracy in total chaous.

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil_ | Feb 03, 2001 02:50pm | #4

   *C Hammer. Here in MI,even if you complained about back problems prior to the injury, the compant is still liable. It is up to the company to make sure that all it's employees are sutiable to do the job, and that if they have any prior injuries that could be aggravated by working, that they not let them work. I've paid a very large comp claim to a guy who was injured, but had a doctor's note that allowed him to work with restrictions. I compassionatly let him work for me, with those restrictions, and was later found to be partially resposible for contributiing to the injury. YOu'll probably be covered but you might have to fight for your money in court. See a lawyer, since they've already opened up with the first volley.I'm curious about the ladder. I suspect it was fiberglass, because you said it twisted. Aluminum step ladders do that to. Was it type 1A? Had you ever been instructed on ladder safety? Is there a job safty plan onsite? Was the foreman/supervisor on site? These are all questions that will be used against your employer.It might take years to collect, if they fight your claim. It's just another day in the life...blue

1. 
   Frenchy_Dampier | Feb 03, 2001 03:45pm | #5

   *ya just gotta get one of those snakes yourself. Most attorneys will not charge you up front for this, rather they will take a piece of your settlement. It's still a good deal because they can usually get their fee and more besides. Now the bad side. Some will not rehire someone injured on a job previously. Afraid that they may be stuck with something, kinda the last man holding fear. Others don't care and figure you won't want to hurt yourself again. The real trick is to get the biggest dog you can. Talk to several and review their record before you commit. You can make a big differance in what you are compensated for by your selection of attorneys. Hint, find the guy with the biggest house and fanciest car. Don't hire the new kid in the Pinto. If your attorney doesn't want the case, forget it, deal with workmans comp. yourself.

2. 
   Andy_Engel_ | Feb 03, 2001 04:07pm | #6

   *Hammer, I'm sorry to hear about your back. Sounds like your case is exactly the sort that we have worker's comp for. I hope you get the help from them that your employer has been paying for.Andy

3. 
   Ryan_C | Feb 03, 2001 05:38pm | #7

   *My sister's husband fell at work and hurt his back. Boss fought the workman's comp claim. Brother in law got a lawyer (told that that's the only way they'll ever pay any claims) and the lawyer kept pushing for two years. Got a final decision about two months ago. They're never going to pay.Brother in law was out of work for two years (had six jobs in that time abainst doctor's orders but never lasted more than two or three days because his back was so bad.) had to get plates and screws in his back and he just got cleared to work about two weeks ago.Was out of work and couldn't afford health insurance so all the additional surgery, doctor's visits, etc are out of his pocket.I don't really know why the lawyer wasn't able to get this paid but I'll echo "Get the best laywer you can find." You need a mean, greedy, sneaky snake.

4. 
   Dan-O | Feb 03, 2001 06:45pm | #8

   *Hi C. Hammer, Falling off a ladder is a frightening experience.You weren't killed but sustained some injuries. Now you are in the healing and recovery period. Aside from the care you get from a doctor, you'll want to hire a lawyer. It may be suggested that you don't share the details of your case until its resolved. Take care, Dan-O

5. 
   Jim_Walters | Feb 03, 2001 07:36pm | #9

   *I think what happened with WC is that too many people were abusing the system and they tightened up to the point of disqualifying the very one's the system was created to help. Abusers know how to play the system therefore they say the right things and get the cash. It sounds like your brother-in-law tried to grin and bear it on a few jobs and even though he had to quit it could have been enough for some mid-range beaucrate to kill the application. They probably get a bonus or something. We had to end up paying 30% back to the lawyer, but it was either that or nothing. Went to the dr.s the other day and they had posted a sign saying no more workers comp. cases. The doc said they bill comp. and it takes months to get reimbursed. You guys who still buy into it ever miss a payment date? They're on you in a heartbeat.I would advise (the young guys) who feel they have to prove thenselves by carrying too heavy a load, or climbing too fast on a beat-up ladder to be careful cause that safty net may not be there to catch you when you get messed up. Ultimately, you're responsible for your own well being, and no job is worth risking it over.

6. 
   Rich_ | Feb 03, 2001 10:09pm | #10

   *You will want a lawyer, stat. One who has a good track record in WC claims. The best way to find the best lawyer (notice I didn't say "good) is through W-O-M from other patients in therapy. Be wary of Dr. referrals, unsolicited letters, etc.The employer's ins co will deny your claim, that it happened at work, or that it even happened. They will attempt to brand you as a fraud, a gold digger, basically as an unethical, unskilled beer swilling, pill popping loser. Your med payments will be your responsibility until you successfully coerce the insurers to rightfully assume their responsibility. They will follow you around day and night and attempt to use your lifestyle against your claim. Friends and coworkers will start to avoid you.All because the ins co pulls the strings in the otherwise legitimate WC claims process.I took a fall at work one day. The injury still bothers me but that day was the worst of my life because it brought me face to face with the vilest, evilest people on the face of the planet. They are a scourge. These people are in your future when you file a WC claim. You will want the best lawyer. Trust no one outside of your family. Keep copies of EVERYTHING in your own file.

7. 
   Luka_ | Feb 04, 2001 12:50am | #11

   *Ryan,Your BIL and I have surprisingly similar experiences.

8. 
   Jennings_Easterbrook | Feb 04, 2001 07:14am | #12

   *Mr. Hammer: You might want to see what info you can glean from Nolo Press site (http://www.nolo.com). In my opinion, they are a very good and responsible source for readable legal information. They do have a book on Workers Comp "Take Charge of your Workers Compensation Claim", but I'm only seeing a California edition. Like previously mentioned, nothing beats an attorney in you area with a proven track record. If you can't get a referral for a WC attorney, check with your state's bar association. There's lawyers and then there's lawyers. Ask if your state has a certification program for specializations...for WC. At least then you'll have a list of guys that have gone the extra mile in that area of expertise. Nolo's website also has a "find an attorney" feature, but for as much as I trust the info in their published materials...I don't know what the criteria is to list with them for referrals. I'll mention http://www.findlaw.com for just the legal. But, you need a professional who knows how all the pieces go together and knows the lay of the land out your way.

9. 
   Jim_Walters | Feb 04, 2001 01:33pm | #13

   *I'm not an activist, but this thing with Workers Comp really pisses me off. What if everybody stopped buying into it? and told them to get their sh-- together. I can see no difference in the way they do business than a rouge roofer who takes your money and never comes back. Why in the f--- should a guy have to hire a $%%#$ lawyer to get his duly-owed compensation for him? Here we are lined up like cattle, handing over a gob of cash to a bloated, inneficient, bureaucratic bunc of assholes who's only goal in life is to find a loophole so they don't have to pay up. It's an insurance policy for Christs sake, not the mob demanding protection..........or is it?? Where's Reverend Al Sharpton when you need him?

10. 
    Ryan_C | Feb 04, 2001 02:14pm | #14

    *The problem is it's required by law.

11. 
    Tommy_B. | Feb 04, 2001 02:43pm | #15

    *I have personally seen many bogus comp recipients. I have never met anyone who is still on comp that didn't do everything they want to to except work.It shouldn't take years, and you shouldn't have to hire a lawyer, but it shouldn't be as simple as filling out paper work.A guy who worked for me many years ago quit and took a job with a framing crew. Two weeks later he backed up and fell through a stair hole. He came to me for advice about going after comp and suing the employer ( he was paid as a sub). Though he had a concussion, he was pronounced fit to resume work after a week or two of rest. I asked him whose fault the accident was. He said it was his, he wasn't watching where he was going. I asked if he was that injured to go after the guy, was he willing to give up all the athletic activities he enjoyed (avid rock climber, etc.) He thought about it a decided based on whose fault it was and the fact that he had no intentions of limiting his activities, that he would not pursue it.Had he talked to a lawyer first, I think the outcome would have been different. Lawyers are generally the problem, not the solution. I don't know in this case.I'm curious, how was the ladder faulty? How was it twisted? Why did you go up it if it was twisted? What were you doing/carrying when the accident occured. Do you use drugs, alcohol, medication on or off the job? I think part of the job description is to provide for you own safety. If you don't your are a danger to everyone on the crew.As a company owner who pays a shitload in wc for my employees, but does not get any coverage, I wonder why when I am injured, I just have to suck it up and take responsibility for my actions. Whas this accident preventable? Based on the info, I would say yes, by the employee who could have inspected the ladder, got another if it was faulty, then set if up properly. I'm sure your witness would agree.I offer this up for debate only, no flames please.Tom

12. 
    Ryan_C | Feb 04, 2001 05:58pm | #16

    *If an employee intentionally takes a risk, or is horsing aroundk, I agree, the employer shouldn't be responsible. If your employee decides to jump from the second floor onto a pile of sheathing and gets hurt, he was taking a risk and it shouldn't be your risk.But if that employee was doing thw work you asked him to do, using the tool you gave him to use and got hurt doing it, it's your time and you're responsible for what happens to him while he's doing what you've told him to do. Now that doesnt mean the guy who fell throught the hole gets a million dollar settlement but he should get his medical expenses covered and his lost wages covered. He was where he was told to be, doing what he was told to do. Falling was his mistake but at that momemt, he belonged to the employer.

13. 
    Johnnie_Browne | Feb 04, 2001 06:11pm | #17

    *alot of people in my regions use the workman comp as a social security retirement scam. They will fake an injury( backs are common) and retire for life with pay, then sue everybody. It is not really the workman comp people or the employer. Its mainly the lawyers and the lazy greedy scumsucker who we employed. I myself was on workman comp lastyear for a broken leg when a flat bed hit me. They was real good to me. Now you got to understand that the employee insurance rate will skyrocket ten folds, so if it was done at home, he will try. Also drugs is a major concern, if hurt while intoxicated, no payment.The employee is looking at his pocketbook. The workman comp are looking at falsehood. and the lawyers are looking for money.If you are really hurt, on the job, the systems works and works good.Its like a hurricane, after the storm all the crooks come out.

14. 
    George_W._Carpenter | Feb 04, 2001 07:03pm | #18

    *Blue, about the same avenue I would take.Ladder Rating/age/condition.Occupational training?Safety training?Supervision.CH, which state are you in? Is it an "OSHA" state? If so, contact the Dept. of Labor and report your injury.

15. 
    George_W._Carpenter | Feb 04, 2001 07:15pm | #19

    *And who's Who in Political Office? Lawyers. And who pays Lawyers?Insurance Companies. To prevent claims, to subrogate claims, to serve on Insurance Boards, to write Contracts of Coverage... to litigate claims...... to serve in Political Office, regulating the Insurance Industry.Now, I'm not saying a Politician, in Office, actually receives money DIRECTLY from a Insurance Company... but isn't it unusual that we've never gotten past the American Trial Lawyer Association lobby and passed meaningful Tort reform legislation? Could it be the 33% of a multi-million-dollar claim that fuels the lawyer's compassion?

16. 
    Jim_Walters | Feb 04, 2001 07:34pm | #20

    *I agree that in the beginning there needs to be a weeding out of the deadbeats, absolutely. It's not a cut and dried issue one way or the other, and I know full well about the law thing, but the system is broken and it needs a good rotor rootering to get it functioning properly.It seems to be the long term cases that suffer the most because everybody thinks their faking, especially back cases. If you've got x-rays, MRI's, and ten Dr.s saying the same thing, they still turn you down. A small percentage are faking, but there's a hell of a lot of people suffering cause they can't afford operations, medication, etc. You see one guy faking, so you think everyone's faking. That person then has to carry around the stigma of being a fraud, on top of his blown disc. Also, if a guys dicking off on my job (when I had guys) and he got hurt bad enough to be carted away in an ambulance I wouldn't even consider fighting his claim. I would kick myself in the ass for not keeping a tight ship. I'm responsible for his behavior on the site. Don't tell me you can't always be on the job. Thats what the team leader, straw boss, or whatever you want to call him is for, to keep the troops in line. A certain percentage of people always fall through the cracks, WC has a crack in it large enough to drive a dozer through. I still think Brother Al should be on the job.

17. 
    Tommy_B. | Feb 05, 2001 04:01am | #21

    *Ryan, I agree with most of what you are saying. Thankfully, self preservation is one of the strongest instincts.I read an article about back pain and a majority of the population suffers from it at least to some degree. The interesting thing was that a study showed that no treatment was as effective as any medical treatment in patients suffering from back pain. Part of the problem with back injuries is that pain is so subjective. If I say I have back pain no one can disprove it. I have two herniated disks one of which is currently causing numbness in my arm, my index finger and thumb. Last year I had what they call a drop foot, or numbness causing the muscles in my leg to atrophy to where I couldn't pull my toes up toward my knee. It lasted about eight months.I have a orthopedic surgeon in the family so I get great medical advice that is unbiased. I can tell you that I would love to have surgery in the hopes of cleaning this up but that is a last resort. These things do clear up, but I will never be twenty again. Does that mean I should quit working?If you like your job, it will take alot to get you looking for a different occupation. Look at pro athletes. They suffer through things that would easily qualify as a comp claim and still perform.Tom

18. 
    Jim_Walters | Feb 05, 2001 01:46pm | #22

    *Tom,My understanding of a back problem, especially a herniated disc, is that the sooner the operation, the better. The longer you wait, the less likely it is that surgery will help. That's why athletes fair so well, they get worked on immediately. It's much easier to set a freshly broken leg than to wait untill it settles into it's new position. (This is what my surgeon said.)I've had back pain out the wazzoo during my life from overstressing my back muscles, but that was muscle pain and ligement pulls etc. It does go away in time, I sit on my ass for a week or so and that's it. Once you have a serious disc problem though, that may be another story.

19. 
    Len_Olson | Feb 05, 2001 02:57pm | #23

    *All Right, Enough is literally ENOUGH!I am one of those scum sucking snakes that it seems all of you are so ever f'n ready to jump all over. I am not just a lawyer, but very damn good trial lawyer who practiced employment law almost exclusively.Who is at fault? Well, it's the lawyers. Why are my wc rates so high? The lawyers. How come some employers screw their employees, and vice versa? Hell, it just happens to be, and must in fact be, the lawyers, doesn't it?Everyone wants to know why they can't find a good employment lawyer. Read your responses above.You folks want the truth? Here it is: in every single dispute, regardless of base, ask yourself one question, who stands to gain the most. Simply follow the money. When employers skimp on safety and training, it is due to money. When the unscrupolous employee atempts to cash out out on a claim, follow the money. Ultimately, notwithstanding the validity of a claim, the insurance company is ALWAYS tracking their money.The insurance companies hire "investigator" spies to follow the claimant. The company has an in-house "nurse" who only wants to "help" the poor employee. It is inevitable that the company immediately sends the injured employee to a specific clinic or physician. Gosh! I wonder why? The doctors either immediately release the employee back to work, or worse, the employee absolutely be operated on WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY. It is one big huge screw machine.I have helped hundreds of employees get their benefits. Everyone thinks the lawyers just want to get rich. LMAO. I don't know about your states, but in those which I am licensed, the lawyer is restricted to a small percentage of the employee's benefits. Oh and don't forget, the wc bureau tells the lawyer how much time he is allowed on any given task, not hours folks, in minutes.Let's see how the lawyer "gets rich". Employee A works as a carpenter apprentice at $11/hr, and in the last 13 weeks he has averaged gross wages of $522.5. Under comp in most states, he will receive a tax free adjusted compensation rate of 70%, or $365.75 per week, TIB's. The lawyer gets paid in the range of 20-25% of that, period, or $91.44. The lawyer's comp assistant pre-screened the client, phone and personal interview, reviewed the case with lawyer, lawyer says bring em in for interview, interview takes place for usually 45 min to 1.5 hours, file gets set up, medical records are ordered from doctor, injury reports from company, notices of claim go out to company (just to be be sure) to comp commission and insurance company along with letters of rep. Preliminary review hearing is set by wc. In the meantime, the doctor mysteriously decides that employee is either ok or should be referred. Insurance company denies certain medical procedures and contests. The employee doesn't get medical attention he needs. Everyone goes to the benefit review review conference and nothing gets decided. So, a formal hearing is ordered. All of the medical poo-bah continues. Six to nine weeks have transpired. The file is now in 2 maybe 3 binders. Staff has 15 to 20 hours in the case and lawyer has probably around the same. The lawyer is paying the paralegal, the comp assistant, all of the overhead and the costs for documents, etc. Since wc tells the lawyer how much time he can spend on tasks, the staff and lawyer are allocated probably 12 hours each, staff at 50, lawyer at 125. Now, keep this in mind. The lawyers compensation lags behind the claimant's. The lawyer receives pay around week 5 for the first week of work. In the meantime, the employee decides he is starving to death and talk doctor into releasing him to work on a restricted basis, but he really still hurts. Total, the employee is off 11 weeks. The "disability evaluation clinic" decides that employee has 0 impairment and all benefits stop. Oh, here's the kicker, you'll love this part. Since the employee's benefits have stopped the attorney's pay stops.A few years ago, I assigned the task of determining office compensation to the comp assistant. We found a recovery rate of approximately 50% of approved charges, and about 35% for actual time spent.Everyone wants to know why all of the good lawyers are turning their backs on practice. everyone wanted comp reform, and now everyone is screaming about tort reform. Believe me, you'll get it.Do you folks realize that for every ONE McDonald's coffee case, there are literally thousands of injuries which are settled for less than medical costs?Nonetheless, when something heads south, everyone looks for a good lawyer. Do you folks really wonder why I am returning to professional furniture?

20. 
    Jim_Walters | Feb 05, 2001 05:22pm | #24

    *. Do you folks really wonder why I am returning to professional furniture? No, makes sense to me....... I have a very good lawyer. I like my lawyer. I am not pissed at any lawyer, I'm pissed because of the necessity of having to hire one in the first place. Lawyers are people caught in the whirlpool of beauratic BS just like the rest of us. Don't take it personal, noone wants to give up 30% of their compensation to anyone, even God, hell the church only asks for 10% and I balk at that.

21. 
    Dan-O | Feb 05, 2001 06:52pm | #25

    *Dear Mr. Olson, Good diatribe. Really. Now, how do we go aboutdismantling "the giant screw machine?" Again, really. What mechanisms can we use to lower these rates?Regulation? Streamlining or paperwork reduction?Safety and other hazard training? If your not getting paid for approved charges,why not and where did the money go? Do the insurors beat you up by non-payment and is chasing bad debta waste of time and money? Do the insurors bury you in paperwork and stonewall your efforts to progress a case? Are injured workers left to founder while their cases churn slowly through an entrenchedbureacracy? What would be some common sense solutions to the current state of affairs? I would like to know what, in your opinion, we as contractors could do, to get this boondoggle in line. And what should the insurors be doing to help and not hinder what many have thrown their hands up about? We can count on pre paying the premiums and subsequent rate increases followed by routine audits.And we're covered. Hooray. Now here comes the claimand boy oh boy..it stinks. I need more than wishful thinking. C'mon, gimme'somethin' to sink my teeth into. Are we ripe for another tea party, do consumers have any toe holds here? What to do? Complain..write my congressman..and keep paying so I can play. Shovelin' shit uphill, Dan-O

22. 
    Mike_Smith | Feb 05, 2001 11:08pm | #26

    *Rhode Island used to be like a lot of you guys are describing....lot's of employee fraud.. lots of career comp benefit scams..lots of bum employers not carrying comp... so the injured worker either wasn't covered.. or would go to another company that had coverage and then file...rates were going thru the roof... and the insurance companies were losing their shirts..all the insurance companies pulled out... the legislature finally had to reform comp.. they set up a fraud unit... tightened it up so EVERYONE with ANY employees had to have comp.. and this year they made all the so called ""independent contractors"" register and list all the contractors they actually worked for (a lot could only list one for year after year)..the rates are down, the coverage for the injured employees are better.. and teh system is working the way it was intended..wanna bitch about it ?join your builder's association and encourage them to lobby for comp. reform...if Rogues Island can clean up their comp... your state can clean up theirs also...it's up to YOU !

23. 
    Dan-O | Feb 05, 2001 11:51pm | #27

    *Hey Mike, The fraud was/is so prevalant that they overhauled the system. Its a shame. So many dishonest bums lookin' to bilk the system. Do you do any type of criminal background checksbefore hiring? Does your insuror look into that for you? Does your employment application ask if they've had a comp claim? What do you pay per $100 for wc in RI? Have you been the victim of a fraudulent claim? Dan-O

24. 
    Jennings_Easterbrook | Feb 06, 2001 12:28am | #28

    *...oh man...Alright, who went and cheesed off Councilor Olson? Olson, I got one of my kids right now crossing out "St. Francis" on the bottom of that holy card with the bird, mouse, cat, and dog, despite their differences, all gathered around an empty plate... "that's spelled O-L-S-O-N, honey". Is there anything out there like a nonprofit self-insured collaborative for WC coverage or am I dreaming again? My advice to Mr. Hammer is that he bone up on the basics of the WC process so he can be a better legal services consumer and client, if need be. For the rest of you talking about how it "should" be...ramble on...ramble on and on.I admire the nature that presumes equity, but I'm only doing business, dollar or ethical, with those that know better.

25. 
    Mike_Smith | Feb 06, 2001 12:45am | #29

    *dan-o.... (book'em)..(((Do you do any type of criminal background checks before hiring? Does your insuror look into that for you? Does your employment application ask if they've had a comp claim? What do you pay per $100 for wc in RI? Have you been the victim of a fraudulent claim? ))no.. i've only got 3 carpenters... and low turnover...i usually hire by word of mouth... a friend of a friend.. so i guess that is a ((background check)).....i don't much care if they've had a comp claim..in 25 years.. i had one major.. carpal tunnel for a guy i had doing clerical work.....the other two or three were emergency room type things.. stiches.. sprains....here's the rates ( and the experience modified for net rate .. this year it's 11% discount)..carp -1 & 2 family detached dwellings ($14.89 net 13.25)clerical 0.44 (net $0.39 )contractor, executive supervisor or cosnstruction supt (that's me) ($3.82 net 3.40 )as to the fraud unit.. they do a great job at both ends... they prosecute thru the attorney general's office for false claims... and they prosecute employers for fraud.. for no coverage....etc,RI still has problems.. but they seem to be developing a Comp Program that works and is affordable and protects the worker.. which also protects the employer...win / winb but hey, whadda i no

26. 
    Dan-O | Feb 06, 2001 01:21am | #30

    *Hey Mike, Thanks for the quick reply. My last name ends in "o"...lol! I just went and did a search and read a thead where this comp thing was well covered. Sorry to bore anyone with bitchin'/rhetoric. Years ago I worked for a shrewd carpenter/builder.Only lasted (6) months 'cause we didn't fit. All remodel stuff..anyway we were closing in an add-a-level and I worked a buncha OT. He pays me the regular wage in a check and then gives me cash for the OT. In his words, "so I don't have to pay so much on the WC audit." The lousier thing was that he tried to give me the OT in cash without any time and a half. I walked and to his credit he made good on the OT..musta been that dime I dropped to wage and hour. Now I'm callin' the shots and "learnin' while earnin'" This forum's been great for me and I appreciate your posts especially. What about that that Jennings fellow..are there cliff notes available? Dickensesque.. I dunno!! Book-em!

27. 
    Jim_Walters | Feb 06, 2001 03:43am | #31

    *Jennings, Huuuhhh? Could you run that by me one more time?

28. 
    Jim_Walters | Feb 06, 2001 03:46am | #32

    *Mike,They tried that here in Ohio. They fired and rehired and vowed to get their act together, but so far it's the same old cluster f---. Perhaps in time.......

29. 
    Len_Olson | Feb 06, 2001 07:33am | #33

    *Dear Mr. Easterbrook,Since you chose to be formal, I would simply remind you that this a forum without such high linguistic or prose requirements. My name is Len, not "counselor Olson". As you probably know, most trial lawyers resent the phrase "counselor" which is normally touted and expoused by law enforcement parties, because they enjoy the petty reference. (a counselor is not a lawyer). If you are not aware of this, your ignorance is certainly understandable. As to the reference regarding St. Francis. I must expose and admit my own ignorance as to the metaphor which you utilized. Apparently, we are simply from two completely and diamtetrically opposed backgrounds.With that said; and for the rest of the forum, the difficult position I find myself is providing any immediate useful information for such a diverse group comprised, no doubt, among and dispersed thoughout the states and beyond. In order to protect myself from some litigious zealot such as those who "may" have shown themselves before in this forum, I, unfortunately, cannot make specific recommendations for any given problem, because in a state law matter, I have to restrict my comments away from advice to those observations which would involve common sense and usual business practices.I would be more than happy to provide my general guidelines for employee selection, retention, training, insurance selection, claim maintenance, etc; however, my opinions could not extend to any particular problem in a forum of which I am not licensed.My previous response was a diatribe, and I apologize, however, I felt that it was appropriate. I find lately that the legal community has become far too reactive rather than proactive when faced with attacks. I also believe that this attitude has simply invited further criticism, when misdirected, and unjustified.Should you, the members, wish to hear my general opinions and suggestions in the area of claims and employee relations issues, (under the guidelines outlined above), I will be more than happy to share.Take Care All!Goodnight Mr. Easterbrook.Len

30. 
    Dan-O | Feb 06, 2001 05:15pm | #34

    *Awright Len, You can be "diatribal leader!" Your initial post got me pumped and the sequel weren't shabby .. Kidding aside, the glimpse at lawyer world is an eye opener. It would seem the insurance companies can or are equally user unfriendly. Maddening. And I don't blame you for pursuing other fields. Go for it and enjoy, life's too short, right, (even for chess?) So have at it, I for one am eager for your willingness to share. And for the record, my initial response to your post was too spirited and not meant as an attack. Keep on keepin' on... Dan-O P.S. What about that Jennings..formal, prose huh?

31. 
    Len_Olson | Feb 07, 2001 03:09am | #35

    *Hey Dan-O!Diatribal Leader! Really? lmao. Hey, do I get a certificate or somethin'?No problems here onyour post, and my prose comment was the satirical smart a$$ in me in reference to the fact that I literally could not make ANY sense out of another party's post.Here's what I will do. I'll provide some good general advice that is based in common sense, experience with clients, and general basics in employee relation problems, but I cannot and will not address specific problem scenarios. Of course, I will provide HUGE disclaimers at the beginning and end. I think that one topic per week should be the format.I would suggest employee selection/retention as the first topic, but you guys tell me what you want.Len

32. 
    Mike_Smith | Feb 07, 2001 04:21am | #36

    *len..... #1.. get off the front page .. what you are discussing is better received in the ((business )) section.....or.. if you want to let your hair down.. try the woodshed.. newbies buy the first round..i'll have a 'gansett...

33. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Feb 07, 2001 05:45am | #37

    *Len, thanks for pointing out the other side of the story. I'm well aware that many lawyers are working for less than carpenters wages.Question: would the lawyer recieve 91.00 for each month that the claimant received benefits? Do the benefits go indefinetly?blue

34. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Feb 07, 2001 05:52am | #38

    *Len, let it rip.blue

35. 
    Dan-O | Feb 07, 2001 04:37pm | #39

    *Okay Len, Youda man! And ya got noticed by a couple o' the heavy hittahs. Mike's good. Like he says, start a thread in the tavern..I'm buyin', its "virtual" so drive and work or whatever.. I'm new here , wandered in cold. Its full o' all kindsa folk, some are very helpful and knowledgeable.I came seeking wisdom and stuck around for the entertainment! So I'm pleased to meet you and all the best in '01.. Dan-O

36. 
    Davo_ | Feb 09, 2001 09:44am | #40

    *It's a shame that we need lawyers at all. Handshake is no good anymore! Everybody wants things their way or .....what else....they're gonna sue. Insurance companies take a big bite out of your take home pay because.....you gotta have protection in case you get sued! (here's a typical hypothetical case) Person get's their dry cleaning back from the laundry. Cost of the laundry bill, $7. Cost of the outfit, $100. Person says launderer ruined outfit....sues for $10,000. Why not just get back the original cost of outfit at $100? Why? Because some hot shot lawyer puts this $10,000 idea into the person's head! Lawyers don't make money!? B.S.! How many carpenters charge $125 an hour? That's small change now-a-days. Lawyers in my town were charging that price back in 1984. More like $225 and up today!Can't remember the name of the Baltimore Orioles owner, but do remember watching a TV show about him and how he came to have MILLIONS $$$. He was a lawyer who represented the shipyard workers in asbestos claims against the employers and the asbestos companies. His "take" was based on a percentage of the monies that he won for each of his clients. The guy has millions....owns a major league franchise....No money Mr. Olson?.....GIVE ME A BREAK!What we need is less lawyers, no insurance companies, free medical care without HMO's, lower gasoline prices, no "golden parachutes for CEO's, and more concealed weapon permits. ( for starters)Davo.

37. 
    Jim_Walters | Feb 09, 2001 12:36pm | #41

    *Len,What you are proposing sounds like a great idea to me, and one everybody should be able to appreciate. I'm looking forward to listening in. Are you going to the Tavern?Personally, I have no problem (re: last post ) paying a lawer his fee, I've found that in the real world you guys are an absolute necessity and if your doing your homework, well worth the cost. Sometimes, guys don't understand the cost of education, office staff etc. that's necessary for you to do your job. There's good, bad and ugly in every profession. You seem to be a good guy, looking forward to the Tavern......Do you have a website for your furniture? jjwalters.com

38. 
    Len_Olson | Feb 09, 2001 04:26pm | #42

    *Jim,NI'm working on two websites right now. The first is for federal employees regarding their rights as employees. The second one will be furniture. Some of the pieces will definitely be the tables I build with my brother (he's a stone mason), granite and marble inset designs.I will take this to the tavern. I actually thought this was the tavern by the way the page is layed out. First topic for argument will be employee selection.

2. 
   C_Hammer | Feb 09, 2001 04:26pm | #43

   *
   I recently hurt my back falling off a ladder which belonged to the company that twisted causing me to fall onto an out side corner I now have two if not three herniated disks. I am now on comp. I just received the copy of the form that my employer sent in. One question asks them "is there any reason to believe that this injury did not occur at work?" they have answered yes an stated that I "have complained of back soreness prior" should I be worried that they think that I am just dogging it? are they covering their ass? the fall was witnessed by another employee. any feed back?