Hello,
I have what appears to be a large wood burner tied to my heating system. Basically it is a redundant system with a radiator on the back of a wood burner. With the price of oil, I am contemplating using it this winter. Stamped on the front door is “Hydroheat”. Cannot seem to find any other info (model etc) on the unit.
Does anyone have any information on these stoves? Any experience good/bad? Can they run coal or just hardwood? Google comes back with heat pump websights…
Thanks
Smart construction decisions and material choices can significantly improve occupant safety and survival in the event of a fire in the home.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Does it have a shaker grate? Yes? COAL
Does it have a barometric damper/draft control? Yes? Probably COAL.
Can you burn wood ina coal burner? YES
Can you burn coal in a wood burner? Not recommended
Got a picture?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "
Me.
Sphere,
I will take a picture tonight. What is a shaker grate? The unit came with the house and obviously I know nothing about it... I did not see any type of barometric damper control although there is some type of gauge on the pipe leading to the chimney (probably temp??)
A shaker grate will have a lug or square nub that a handle engages, and one part or more of the grate will pivot/rotate or grind the coal ash so the bed stays in contact with air. Ashes and clinkers will then fall into an ash pan or access door.
A chimney temp gauge is a good thing, but a baro damper will have weighted flap that alows room air to enter the flue in event of high winds, so as to not over draft and meltdown the stove.
No matter what, being a newbie to solid fuel stoves, I'd consult a qualified chimny sweep to inspect what you have from the stove OUT. There is a learning curve to any solid fuel burner, and beginning with a bad flue is not a good place to start.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Thanks Sphere,
Had all 3 chimneys cleaned earlier this year. Do you know of any good sources of literature to help with the learning curve?
Not really, I kinda grew into it..LOL
First determine what fuel you are using and we'll see from there. Coal is still started with wood, so learning the operation of the stove damper and air inlets is the key, as is proper wood selection.
Coal is sold by size I.E. Pea, chestnut, and stove lumps. Some grates won't do well with pea, and some pea stoves can benefit from mixing in some chestnut for kicks..I had a mini potbelly that liked the mix, and a big honkin chestnut/stove size burner that would waste pea size..so it depends. Some times coal needs to be wetted down with water, both to control dust, and temper the burn rate.
I am strictly wood at this time, I hated the mess of coal dust all over everything, nasty stuff.
BTW, I never burnt soft ( bituminous) coal, only hard anthracite..I believe in some areas soft coal is called fireplace coal.
You may have just a woodstove with a water jacket, in that case, if te chimnies are good, just experiment with smallish fires till you dial in the appetite vs heat output, for your supply of wood.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Does it have a shaker grate? Yes? COAL
I've got 3 woodburners here that have shaker grates. 2 stoves and that giant boiler I saved for you. <G> None for coal.PAHS works. Bury it.
If I can't get my buut in gear and get the refaractory brick and mortar for Dedubya in time for winter, I might have to come steal something from ya..I don't wanna go thru another winter with the barrel stove if I can I hep it.
Never seena single wood stove with a shaker grate. Quit pulling my leg..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Yeah, they have been putting them on wood stoves for some time now.
Don't know why, must be a marketing thing or something.
OP, whether or not it's coal, why not start preheating your hot water supply?
I Yurt sat for a few months with a set up like that. Man that water
was good and hot! Isn't the hard coal also called "Coke" ?
IIRC, coke is pre-cooked coal to remove some of the impuities, burns way hotter than raw coal.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
burns way hotter than raw coal. Well that how you find out if you have a wood or coal stove.
Hey, what ever happened to your Masonry heater?
I still gotta score the cement and firebrick, steel door, clay lining and chimney block..oh and a mason.
Other than that I'm all set!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Well almost done then!
Can ya feel the heat from there?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Probably could scare up a few cast radiators to go with it. I love those things, salvaged a pile for my next place for the active solar system. Nothing like plopping yer butt on a warm radiator on a cold day. Or putting on toasty clothes you just dried there.
Really, the company that built my shaker-grate woodstoves produced a lot of them. Over in the Shenandoah Valley. They work so well, I bought a second for the lumber shed. Ugly as sin, huge firebox. Downdraft or updraft, at the turn of a lever.
I thought all wood-boilers had shakers/ash drawers. No? My 2 (different mfgs.) do.PAHS works. Bury it.
I 've only had direct exp. with coal boilers, one converted to oil..god what a behemoth that was. Was right up there at about 10% efficiency, till we got a new unit.
You have something that would make a sweet door for the masonry heater? I am coming up blank around here, unless I get to welding up some scrap. I be thinking 14x14 or there abouts, maybe draft spinners or sliders included? Preferably a steel angle frame and lift off hinges, and a gasket.
Not asking for too much, am I ? LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
sweet door for the masonry heater
Got a couple of ugly old cast doors in a shed you can have - shipping probably a killer though <G>
You got flight connections, drop em on a chute outta a C-130 passin over..I'm five miles tops from BGAD, aim for the log house with the rusty roof..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
aim for the log house with the rusty roof..
That'll give you a skylight...
Unless they're too heavy for the PO, I'd jump on Art's offer.
The small stove in the house here has a nice door with a pair of screw dampers. No name, appears the stove wasn't built by a regular manufacturer. Similar to an Englander, which are popular here. Yell if you want a picture. PAHS works. Bury it.
Sphere,
Here are the pictures I promissed. Maybe someone can help identify this beast...
I can almost guarantee that is a wood only stove. Better for you, wood is often free, and a lot less learning curve.
Is it plumbed up?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Yes, all plumbed up. There are a few ball valves that direct the forced hot water through the stove's radiator. So, after verifying there are no leaks I can fire up the stove and get heat throughout the house whenever the thermostat calls for it. I have about 2 cords of wood ready for splitting too....
Cool..go for it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Sure glad I got past dialup... Now, if you'd step back for less close-up, and make them considerably smaller files.
No blower or thermostats? That's how mine control the water-jacket temperature. Wouldn't be difficult to adapt. PAHS works. Bury it.
Sorry about the picture quality...
This one is plumbed in series with my oil fired burner. It also has a bypass loop. All manual ball valves to switch loops.
Basically, when the thermostat in the living area calls for heat, the circulator pulls water through the woodstoves radiator, through the oil firec burner and then out to the radiators. At least that what it look like to me. Assuming the wood fired unit sends out enough hot water, the oil fired unit would not kick in...
Seams like you'd want to be circulating water through the
stove continuously while it's hot.
Other wise you end up with a steam bomb.
Nothing I've seen before, but that doesn't mean much.
If you're serious about wood heat, I'd plan on changing it to a system where the water-jacket has a limited temp. That's the pair of thermostats for the blower. One turns it on, the other off. The fire smoulders when the blower's off.
Or maybe it was just an aide to the boiler, for when you decided to have a fire. Looked like a pretty serious piece of hardware for that.
Henley's got a good point. Surely there's some sort of pressure valve? Or does it rely on the boiler's?PAHS works. Bury it.
I need to study the plumbing a bit more before I fire this thing up. Pressure relief would come from the system blow offs but I do not think it would ever get to that because of the temp controls on the wood fired system. BTW, each system has it's own set of circulators for the two house zones... See attached which shows some type of temp control and one of the circulators. To the left is some of the oil fired system plumbing...
Oh... much clearer. And that's not a water-jacket wood boiler. Just a stove rear pouch to preheat water? Looks a lot like the woodstove in my house, but I've got no plumbing.
It has a circulator direct to the house? Thought it was conncected to the boiler.
Interesting system. Probably a sketch of the plumbing, with flow, would tell you want everyhing's supposed to do. Still not quite clear to me from that photo.PAHS works. Bury it.
"Just a stove rear pouch to preheat water"
Not sure what you mean by that? Water pipes come in & out of the wood unit. Here is a diagram that shows how this thing is tied in...
Oh... I underestimated what you have. I was under the impression the stove output went directly into the boiler.
By pouch, I meant a small tank at the back of the stove. It didn't look like you have a full water-jacket (all sides and on top of the firebox). From your diagram, I must have been wrong about that. Some stoves have pouches to preheat water headed for a standard water heater.
The diagram helps immensely, not that I'm a liquid heating expert by any means. Our primary heat is passive. We don't burn anything.
Any idea why you have separate controls and circulator for the stove? Allows it to be used independently from the boiler, but has considerable redundant plumbing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as somebody else put it in and paid for it.
All right, going back to your original post, you said "Basically it is a redundant system with a radiator on the back of a wood burner." Outside my realm of experience. What's the "radiator" amount to? How does it work?
PAHS works. Bury it.
Edited 6/19/2008 1:25 pm ET by VaTom
The system appears to be an add on. The redundant circulators seem to be a waist but otherwize there is not much extra plumbing.
With a good fire going and both wood stove circulators running, I am hoping the normal house thermostats will not call for heat from the main furnace. Based on your experience what do you think (2200sf living area, moderatly insulated). Assuming we like the house temp to be around 70 degrees.
All depends on the output of your woodburner of course. If you have an easy wood source, and don't mind hauling, I'd certainly give it a go. Very little to lose, is there?
Boilers, independent of fuel type, are normally sized to the load. If yours is (properly) sized to the house, you're in business. Other than asking the last occupants, you're in for experimentation.
Well, you could calculate your house's heat loss, and your wood-stove's output and make a very good prediction. Don't imagine you want to go through all that. The professional heating guys in your neighborhood might have some rule-of-thumb to follow.
I had a boiler guy out here when I first got my monster boiler. He took one look and asked about my heat needs, which are extremely modest. Then said there was no way in hell I'd ever keep the fire burning. Waaaay too large a boiler. Which is why I thought it might suffice for Sphere's digs. Turns out loading the firebox every week or so doesn't work. Sounded good to me.
The wood boilers I have both have full water-jackets. The fire smoulders until the water-jacket temp drops, which switches the fan on. Fire comes up with the fan air, heats the water-jacket until the other thermostat turns the fan off. Keeps the water-jacket temp within a narrow range. Yours apparently isn't so automatic. Retrofit after you determine it'll do the job?PAHS works. Bury it.