I need help!
I live in Northern CA and when I had my house built 7 years ago I installed a Polaris water heater/heat source and a closed loop of copper pipes so that I could install Runtal radiators. My decision for hydronic radiators was because I grew up in Germany where each room had its own radiator that could be thermostatically set to a comfort zone of choice. When I built the house, I could not afford to buy the radiators and towel warmers. Now that I am ready I cannot find a plumbing contractor that will perform the work for me because in CA hydronic heat is not the norm and it seems like no one has seen a Polaris Water Heater.
I have found a supplier of all the parts that I will need. My questions are:
1. How hard would it be for a do it yourselfer to install the radiators and towel warmers?
2. The schematic I have, calls for a pump to be installed on the supply side of the heat source. What size pump would I need? I have 3/4″ pipes running in a closed loop to three TW-9 (24″) and three R-2’s (12′ long) [these are Runtal parts]?
3. My hot water heater is my potable water source, the source for my heating system via an air handler, and the supply source for the hydronic radiator system; does anyone have typical installation instructions, ie. hooking the closed loop piping to the source? Including where isolation valves, bypass valves and manifolds would be necessary.
All of my lines have been pressure tested during the inspection phase, as I mentioned earlier, that was seven years ago.
Replies
I've got my plumbing sub installing Runtals as part of my total hydronic package. One thing is this: they need water at about 140 F. Got it?
Our in-floor runs quite a bit cooler than that, and a mixing valve is in-line for the loop manifolds.
I believe my system can be set between 140 and 160. I will check the Polaris installation guide. Thanks for your reply.
By the way, will each of your baseboard heaters have their own thermostat?
No, they are part of the in-floor zone they are adjacent to. We get zone 3 winters here, temps sometimes going to -30 and deeper. My floorplan has some areas with lots of glass, and these are under the large window runs.
Hydronic radiant heat has made nice inroads here the last ten years or so, and those of us doing it are combining good seal-up jobs with urethane foam insulation, doing 2-door mudroom entries, etc. My plumbing contractor has learned, sort of the hard way, that the in-floor heat just simpy needs help here in some situations, and thus the Runtals.
I am surprised to hear you cannot get anyone to do your install. You might try getting a well-qualified plumber to help you, paying him hourly for his know-how and tools. The manifolds, controls, valving, etc., looks sort of complex to me.
The problem is that I live in "sunny" CA. People think I'm nuts having fireplaces, radiant hydronic heat systems with their own thermostats and forced air hydronic heat. The big picture is that I want long term efficiency. My combined gas and electric bill already runs me $224.00 per month on a balanced payment plan. Eventhough I don't have more than maybe 6 days a year where the temperature is below 32; I have 4000 sq ft plus volume I am trying to keep comfortable.
I think my problem is that no plumber wants to step in where another left off. The potential for liabililty is too great. The system appears tricky but the more I study it, the less confusing it actually is.
I have rec'd some very useful information from my posting and feel comfortable enough to tackle this job myself. Therefore the liability is on me. If I ruin anything, I only have myself to blame.
Besides that, I got several quotes from plumbing contractors - one came in at $6,700 and the other at $7,200. I can buy all the parts for about $2,600.00, as most of the system is already in place.
Bet the Runtals would go in easy enough.
The hard part is the supply strategy.
You are probably going to want a flat plate heat exchanger for the 'closed' side.
Properly sized circ, some sort of mixing strategy. Possibly an outdoor reset, or being from Germany you may prefer individual TRVs.
You will need an expansion tank on the heating side.
Takes a bit of planning and research to get it right.
Perhaps Runtal would help you with part of the design, such as sizing the circ.
Edited 11/25/2003 3:42:04 PM ET by csnow
Thanks. You're right, figuring out the supply is where I am having difficulty. I have been given some great suggestions though.