okay guys, we’ve all said it, now give me some feedback on the reality of it.
I have been in const/carpentry my entire career life. I have plenty of practical experience. I have worked for companies and done side jobs the whole time. I have done very well on the side jobs. I keep coming back to the same thought, which is;
‘THis guy I’m workin for is so disorganized it makes me crazy, he continues to make the same mistakes over and over again and wonders why he doesn’t make any money, I’m sick of making up the deficit to “save the job” when if we’d done it normally it wouldn’t need saving…ad nauseum
currently I am working in the remodeling sector. this includes alot of kitchen and bath installs for Expo Design Center. (talk about a disorganized company)
I and others keep saying, “you’d be much better off on your own.”
what say you’s?
Replies
You need to answer that question yourself.
Your a great tradesman, now you need to discover if you can be a great businessman. Read everything you can about becoming a businessman.
At some point, we all have to do the work of building a business system. Do it now and make more money now, stay in relationships, stay sane, stay respected and well liked.
The big problem is this is an easy entry business that feeds on itself. A cheap HO will hire a dude for a deal inspite of the risk and when it falls apart, the industry gets hit with that "damn contractors" statement.
Good luck
I've always said if you have a better way of doing things you should go out on your own and just do it.
For now you are working for some disorganized outfit that has figured out a way to hire employees, keep the jobs coming in, pay all the advertising expenses, do the payroll,spend weekends finding more work, do the design planning and take out of a remodel, co-ordinate scale drawings permits and subs, then still have time to make mistakes.
Sounds to me like you better give it a try.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
at first read i thot you were recommending I go out on my own.
At second read it seems you are being sarcastic and defensive.
which is it?
I'm trying to tell you that whatever you decide to do it will not be easy.
My own sons are critical of the way I do things on the job sometimes but then again it is my company and I can do it the way I like to do it. Right or wrong.
You may find fault in your current employer but please remember he got there by a great deal of hard work.
I am recommending you go out on your own because you sound displeased with where you are now and life is too short for that.Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Man! reading your post I had to keep looking up to see that I didn't write it myself!!
I am 42, my body is going on 60 and my mind can't decide whether it is 19 or 90.
I have been a carp for 20 years and consider myself a top notch professional.
My boss is a nice guy (easy going, mild mannered, Christian) but some times I swear he thinks that praying for things to work out is all he needs to do!
I fix the same fark-ups on just about every job. less now that one of the younger guys is coming around and promises to be a great one some day.
Boss hired a project manager to make things go smoother.
HA!
Another nice guy whose construction experience is from working on his own house and the military! RED FLAG!!!
right now we got as much work as we ever had but they can't find enough for 3, YES 3, carps and we are all getting short weeks and bouncing around like ping pong balls.
I am currently on double secret probation, because I am making "too many costly mistakes" the worst being an admitted overstep of my authority that cost the company about a day and a half of my wages.
this is after 6-1/2 years of doing top quality work, and helping to build up our reputation as one of the best remodelers in the area.
The boss actually tried to not pay me for the day I screwed up until I informed him that I felt it was unfair and illegal.
There are a number of good reasons to stay but lately the frustration level is getting to the point of being ridiculous.
I am putting together a portfolio of my work and will be updating my resume' ( A good carp. is ready for whatever comes up).
I have always said, "If I wanted to work for an idiot I would go out on my own!!"
well I been rambling on long enough sorry if I didn't answer any of your questions, but I'm looking for the answers my self.
Feels good to talk (type) about it.
Let us know what happens as will I.
Good luck and take care compadre!!!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Mr T
I read the original post and said the same thing that you did, then I read yours (although your a little younger than I)and felt even more like the author of this thread.
I've recently moved and got a job for a great guy, real good money and all but man he is so freaking disorganized, I started looking for something new lately, probably wont get as good as money but damn, I'm tired of the stress it causes. Don't know the answer to this problem just that there sure seems to be a lot of us guys in the boat. When someone comes up with the solution make sure you don't keep it to yourself.
Doug
Shep and RW hit it. I chose not to go into business for myself because I am not a good marketer (my estimating pretty much sucks too...). Loved doing the work, hated looking for more. Not unlike artists or musicians. They exell at their craft, but don't have the skills to promote themselves. Thus a whole industry of agents.
It talkes special skills - inate or hard-won - to go into business for yourself and be successful. Look deep into yourself, weigh everything, and embrace the outcome. Remember, it's still work whichever route you choose. There will always be parts that really suck and you struggle with. Just part of being alive.
Wayne
i say what the he!!, give it a shot! i've worked for myself for twenty years in various pursuits and wouldn't have it any other way.
one major caveat- if you think it's stressful taking orders, wait until you're the one giving them. and it's your a$$ on the line for whatever happens. your business will be the last thing on your mind when you go to sleep at night and the first thing when you wake up in the morning. if you think you're cut out for that, go for it.
have fun, you can always change your mind later.
m
I've almost always worked for myself.
In whatever line of business I've been in, I've worked hard, learned from my betters and become as competent as I can be.
Circumstances change in life. I'm now involved in a lovely little reno as GC and carpenter. I hate the self-promotion part, but I had a business plan in my head and part of achieving success is constantly growing.
I'm not a professional carp., but I love good, tight work and admire to heck the people who can work to the standards I want to set for my jobs.
I can tell you that I keep trying to take on bigger and more demanding stuff so I can learn more. I'm not the sharpest business person but I am getting by and making a profit.
If you don't try, you will never achieve.
If you fail at your business, try and learn why before you go out again.
If you are as good as you say you are, even if you fail the first time you will get a job.
Most of the banks I know have pamphlets about starting your own business. Read them.
Good luck.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
charleshamm-- I've worked as a carpenter for almost 30 years now. I worked for someone for 16-17 years, then went out on my own for about 12 years. I've recently gone back to working for someone again because I realized I really don't enjoy doing the " business " part of the business. I'm much happier now that I can just concentrate on my carpentry skills and leave the other part to someone else. Just remember- you'll be working 8+ hours a day in the field and then still have to deal with bills, estimates, and customer calls when you get home. I'm not trying to discourage you from going out on your own, just giving you my perspective. I know people who have made a successful go at running their own business; it just wasn't for me.
you need to discover if you can be a great businessman
That's about as sound as it gets. I think a lot of guys know how to do the work and feel like going it solo sounds pretty cherry. The grass is always greener until you're standing on the other side. I think the work portion of it really only constitutes about 30% of the knowlege base you really need to run a contracting business. It would be an easier transition for a good business man to learn carpentry than a good carpenter to learn business. And good business sense doesn't lend itself to being learned from book to well. It's an attitude and outlook and sometimes even a sixth sense, and I'm not about to claim that I have more than a dash of it. A friend of mine guides his hiring selections by a little mantra : Hire attitude, teach aptitude. It's the same principle. Look for what comes naturally to you. A lot of people can learn how to install cabinets. Not a lot of people can run a business successfully.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
charleshamm,
There are more ways than one to do this. You can go large scale GC and market a company, hire employees, etc... The full boat.
Or, you could do what a friend of mine did. He's a great carpenter, so he got his license, bond and insurance, owns all of his tools and helps various GC's including me. He takes care of his paperwork and taxes, so I don't have to.
I am using him now on a remodel with rot issues, the demo gets done, he checks it out and fixes the problem. No worries for me. He bills me $35 per hour, and other guys a bit more. I use him maybe 2 months per year, for anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks at a time.
He's very good, and could work year round, but seems to do well enough to get in the elk hunting season every year, and a couple of fishing trips, and never worries about jobs, employees or customers, since I and others do this for him.
Wait a minute...
I WANT TO BE HIM!
Just a thought.
skipj
Charles,
Good topic, I think we have all thought about this.
Shep's post has a lot of good points. Decide whether you are an entrepreneur or not. The business side is a lot more than just a hassle. Be sure to give it the consideration it deserves.
Also ask yourself:
Why do I want to start my own business? (being upset w/ your current employer is not an acceptable answer.)
Am I ready to work 1/2 days? (that's 12 hours)
Am I ready to work most weekends?
Is my wife behind this? Is she FULLY aware of the risks? (you can strain your relationship in a hurry.)
Is you employer as dumb as you think he is? A lot of project managers (just one of your employers hats) have a lot on their minds all the time. The rely on competent field personnel to save their a$$ where the know it can be done. That's kind of a complement to you that your employer feels so safe with you that when his mind is overloaded and he can't do it all, he neglects your area because he knows you are there to save him.
When you start your business are you going to have employees that think you are stupid when something slips your mind? When you have to make a judgement call between the less of two evils? Almost always the field personnel are not privy to all of the information that goes behind the making of a decision. All they hear is the answer and then criticize the project manager for it.
I also like Skipj's post, be a carpentry hitman. If you have 4 or 5 repeat clients, you a$$ is a lot safer.
Just some quick thoughts.
WAHD
Just to echo a few points that have already been made:
Mark McDonnell is right when he says "You're a great tradesman, now you need to discover if you can be a great businessman." What's the failure rate for guys going out on their own? Something like 90% ??? That's the reason I'm not a GC - I'm good at a lot of things, but am lousy at business and paperwork.
Keep in mind that you'll also need to be good at estimating and marketing. Bid jobs too low for too long and you'll be bankrupt pretty quick.
How about capatilization? Got enough money to go for 6 months without any income? Enough money to buy tools and other equipment you need? Deal with the inevitable mistakes and problems on jobs where you don't end up making any money?
Shep also makes a good point - "...you'll be working 8+ hours a day in the field and then still have to deal with bills, estimates, and customer calls when you get home." You will lose a lot of you free time. You can't always walk aay form work and forget it until the next day.
WAHD also makes an excellent point. If your Wife ain't behind the idea, you're adding a bunch of stress to an already stressful situation. If you plan to stay married, make sure she's with you.
There's probably been a guy here every 2 weeks over the past few years asking about going out on their own. Don't know how long you've been hanging around, but you can learn a lot from reading back through those posts. (Or just hang around a while and there will be more)
Don't mean to be too discouraging - Just as I susect the others also don't. But it's not something to be taken lightly. Let us know, whatever you decide.
Sometimes you get the elevator, sometimes you get the shaft.
i agree with what you said about the failure rate, it is very high. my point is that if you can manage to stay in business at a profit that is probably the best way to success! 7 years ago i went to see a pro financial planner. i just wanted to plan ahead for tax consequences. what if this and what if that, what is the best direction to go, i needed a write-off, and i wanted to find out what property or other investments would do to my future tax bill. he reccomended a book, "The Millionaire Next Door". i read and enjoyed it very much. it was originally a commisioned work to find out who had money and what they spent it on and it evolved into the book, very interesting reading. they said in the book the same thing about failure rate, but if you don't fail, and save to reinvest in the business, and position yourself to take advantage of the cycles in whatever field your in you have a great chance at success. i think it was something like 70% of the people in the USA with a net worth of over 1 million are small to medium business owners! saving is the key, don't spend the money, reinvest. also i think a large part of it is motivation. i have always managed to pay the bills, and keep my credit good. if you put yourself in the position where you have to make it or you lose everything there is a much greater tendency to work very hard to make it work. you have to finish the job by such date and such cost or you are sunk. to some degree this takes the fun out of building, depending on the person but the rewards can be great.
I've been self-employed most of my life. I prefer it that way, but it is hard to get over the hump from simply working more for the same money to actually making a real profit. I was in carpentry for about 20 years, now I'm in the real estate biz. My worst income year for a long time was the year I quit working in someone else's real estate office and opened my own.
I suggest that you read a book called "The E-Myth". Can't remember the author's name, but it was a popular book 10 or 15 years ago. It addresses the difference between being good at some trade or profession and being good at business.
Good luck!
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I completely agree with Shep. I've been in the business for 30 years as a carpenter, designer, contractor, developer, etc. I think that knowledge of carpentry has almost nothing to do with running a sucessfull contracting business (although the best contractors have lots of construction knowledge). Running a business is about managing people, pressure, expectations, etc. and trying to find some work/life balance while working 60-80 hour weeks. There have been many sleepless nights for me over the years. worrying about dealing with a client that won't pay, or a sub that dissapeared, or a foreman that quit, or a deadline that's looming, or a check that bounced, or an architect who says that I should have caught his mistake, and on and on.
What I've observed over the years is that the best contractors are people-people. They like the interaction with the client and the crew, and like to form strong relationships with subs, suppliers, clients, etc. I've found the worst contractors to be totally focused on the carpentry part of the biz, while neglecting the bigger picture. I've always felt that being a GC has much more in common with running a grocery store that with being a carpenter. And keep in mind that if you enjoy carpentry you may miss being able to work for more than twenty minutes without getting pulled away to the phone, or to answer a question.
The bottom line is you should work for yourself if you want the chance (not the guarantee) of making more money, and if you are very comfortable with pressure and conflict, which are the contractor's constant companions.
Good luck!
David
Light House Design
Boy, oh boy! Sounds like were all clones. Everything everyone has said I've said to myself.
After 30 years of my own work I'm in a similiar quandry. I'm a fourth generation carpenter. I've worked 10 years union,in a cabinet shop,ran a design center for Builders Square,was a project manager for a large company, ran my own remodeling business and now where am I-
I'm a technical supervisor for Tulsa Junior College's theatre department. I teach stagecraft and design/build the sets for the plays. Why?
'el if ino' Actuall I did the math. I get less than half what I was being paid where I was but add in the benefits and lack of a micromanaging natzi, boom here I am.
An added benefit is I got my brain back. At 5:00 my work day is over. I go home, no invoicing, no late night panic calls from the client, no anaiety about the next job and will it let me keep everybody. I can garden or build the cabinetry I've been putting off.
Did I mention the low pay- Anyway it's hard when your used to seeing that check, that measure of self worth, your used to seeing. That is what keeps trying to pull me back.
Thanks to all of your stories I think I can tolerate another month or two.
Should you go out on your own- absolutely. Will it be hard or easy? Will I cry? Will my wife leave me? Will the summers be hot the winters long and cold?-absolutely
Will I love it? Am I a masochist? Am I a carpenter? Absolutely