With a warm day I decided to take the planer out to clean up some roughcut maple I have stickered and grabbed a few boards off a small side stack to run thru.
When I removed them I found a little telltale pile of sawdust on top of one of the boards.
When I started planing them I found 2 boards that had the bore holes in them. Outside of freaking from not wanting to lose the stacks what can I spray them with to stop the insect intrusion?
when in doubt add garlic
Edited 10/30/2006 5:42 pm ET by rez
Replies
They are more than likely EXIT holes, not something boring in, yer hosed. Sad, but often true.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Shooting rubber bands at the Moon
They've been stickered there for 5 years or so and was freshcut when stacked.
I had redid the pile during the summer and made the small stack of the side new so I know there was no sawdust then so I'm knowing it is fresh drilling.
I'm wondering what can be done.
when in doubt add garlic
Tent it under a tarp and set off some foggers for bugs. Leave it that way and repeat.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Shooting rubber bands at the Moon
Only have two roughly 4x4x12' stacks so what if I load a sprayer and spray into the stack coating the wood?
What insectide would you recommend?when in doubt add garlic
Malathion probly will get em dead. Diazanon fer second choice, either can be gotten off the shelf.
I'd still opt for fogging the piles instead, cuz other wise ya almost need to spray each board one by one (?) .
I haven't been a bug man for many years, and lots a stuff has changed since those days.
Concentrated fumigation just seems like what I would do if it were me and my wood. Or hell, do BOTH. I assume it is soft maple? It does add character, if that is any help.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Shooting rubber bands at the Moon
Question from a newbie, guys: Won't some chemicals interfere with future finishing? Will some chemicals immediately affect color/tone/workability? Just a Hmmmmm..........The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
some most certainly will..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Some insecticides were oil-vehicle in the past, most are emuslifiable now and are delivered/mixed with water.
I'd think after finish planing and an appropriate sealer applied, all would be fine, but strange things can happen when chems react with other chems or bleaches.
On a tannin rich wood like oak, I'd almost bet that something would change, but maple is pretty tame in that respect.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Shooting rubber bands at the Moon
I think I would be tempted to try heat. I recall reading somewhere that this was being looked into a "green" substituted for termite infestation. They tented a whole house and raised the temp inside to something like 300 degees. This not only killed all the living insect but the larve as well.
"What insectide would you recommend?
when in doubt add garlic"
You answered yer own question, LOL....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
yah, maybe I could call it wormy maple.
be eating a whole clovewhen in doubt add garlic
when in doubt add garlic!!!
WARNING!!!
The FCC has determined the this post may contain unsafe levels of SARCASM!!!!
If you are sensitive or become offended when you are shown to be WRONG!!!!
You should make a complaint to our hotline:
1-800-BITE-ME
no advice on how to prevent further damage.
Think of the up-side though... it add's character!
Sphere hit the nail on the head - fog the wood. I would use Raid Fumigators in the blue boxes. Only use the fumigators that you put in water not the useless aerosol type.
Place wood off the ground in a outbuilding with no livestock. Tent it with tarps. Place the fumigators inside the tarp tent and lock the doors for four or five hours. The instructions say three, but let the stuff work as long as possible. Open the doors to air out the building. The wood will get a concentrated treatment and the rest of the building will not have any flys, spiders, ants, mice, etc...
The fumigators cost around $11.00 for a three pack, but they work.
Got to do something. I'd hate to have the stacks full of holes.
be painted maple
when in doubt add garlic
Edited 10/30/2006 7:02 pm ET by rez
Some blemishes add personality to wood. I had a load of wormy mahogany that I thought would be worthless. A customer saw a sign I made with it and went nuts over it. Since then I look favourably on interesting knots, wormholes and other defects. Some customers only want the plastic look while others can appreciate how each tree is different.
Well, I'll be remembering that if I tear into the stacks and find the worse.
when in doubt add garlic
Sorry, Rez, but your maple is now completely worthless. If you ship it to me, I'll dispose of it for you.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Make something out of the boards already!
I thought I was bad, I have a pile of rough curly Maple sitting in my garage for 2 years now. :)
Just helped unload a cord of firewood.
Friggin' saw some curly maple in there.
And some cherry.
be glad I ain't a cityslicker and can still build a fire in the backyard.when in doubt add garlic
Thats a shame, a couple of my favorites.
Today I saw an approx. 8ft curly maple log of one ft dia. in the firewood pile.
I was told I could have it if I wanted it.
You think it would be worth playing with it and taking it to an amish mill for cutting?
The firewood came from a tree-trimming service looking for a place to unload a bunch of whitewood and this was mixed in.when in doubt add garlic
This may not be of much help but a friend of mine called and said he had roaches and spiders in his house. He asked me who to call and I gave him the name of an exterminator.For a fee of $60 the exterminator came to the home and sprayed it. This was in May and I talked to him the other day and he said just the one spray treatment did the trick.Anyway, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to have an exterminator come to your home. Maybe they could look at your maple wood and make some kind of recommendation.What are you going to do with the wood? I think maple kitchen cabinets would be fantastic.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
I really don't know what I'm going to do with it.
I'm running 3 or 4 years behind on everything and feeling like I'm growing old.
be down on winterwhen in doubt add garlic
It's a pain to machine, eats up blades. If your mill will surface and edge them have them do that as well.
THats the only thing keeping me from milling the pile down, I lack a Powermatic bench planer. I have access to one, just haven't gotten there yet.
The Dewalt planer I have does not like curly maple.
Edited 11/1/2006 5:13 am ET by Stilletto
We never planed curly or quilted Maple in the guitar shops. It all went right thru a wide belt sander. Even the best set up, razor sharp, planers will tear out hunks of grain.
Be Rez has the cooties...
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Shooting rubber bands at the Moon
Thats the problem I am having, lots of tear out. So bad in areas it is ruined.
I thought about a large drum sander to get the thickness down. Just not enough money to buy one. I probably find someone with one and pay them for the service.
Rent time onna belt , 80 g in and 120 out, seviceable stock in yer hands.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Shooting rubber bands at the Moon
Find someone with a byrd too cutterhead on their planer. Amazing results. I never get chipout on anything I put through it and I don't even pay attention to grain direction anymore.
if no one local has one of those then sanding is a good option. You can also try wetting the wood with a damp sponge prior to putting it in the planer. i have had decent success with birdseye maple that way.
Rez,
Powder post beetle holes. If the wood is good & dry, they go dormant. No more damage. If it's still stored outside you might want to go ahead and treat it. If you want something to spray on instead of fogging, use Timbor or Bora-Care.
http://www.doityourselfpestcontrol.com/
is a really good website with info on the buggers as well as being a source for the chemicals.
I'm pretty sure that some where on that shelf with the complete set of Fine Woodworking I read a article on those bugs and holes.
May have been the complete set of Fine homebuilding on the other 2 shelves.
But if you do some hunting I think thats where you'll find some good info.
I would have to be commissioned to do it cause every time I get started I lose a day or 2.
Roar!
This I understand.when in doubt add garlic
If you don't have the #34 I might be able to loan you my copy.
Wink Wink. Let me know.
You know private use among friends.
I've been away from the museum conservation world for a while, but when I left, fumigation (in Canada) was basically a non-starter, definitely for non-pros.....the stuff that worked on the bugs was taken off the market, or very highly restricted. The stuff you could get didn't work. Most of the approaches being looked at were based around freeze-drying/low temperature eradication. Hard to get the temps required except with very good reefer equipment though.The bugs mostly go dormant below around 15 deg. C, but you can't count on that in a house.
Anyway, a lot depends on what bug it is.....agree with Sphere, byt he way, those are exit holes. Our approach probably would have been to tent, and capture a bug for identification, then go from there.
The Canadian Conservation Insttute used to have info on there website; this article is still there, there may be more: http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/publications/ccinotes/pdf-documents/n3-3_e.pdfCabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
I've got a stack of FFW I'm going to go thru.
be a cribbage boardwhen in doubt add garlic
OK, let's think this thru -
others are right, these are exit holes -
and quite likely they are powder post beetles -
what to do?
likely there is next springs larval generation infesting the boards - they are pretty much out of reach of chemicals - at least any you can buy - and they are in diapause, waiting to pupae early next spring and emerge late spring/early summer as adults
180*F for 1/2 hour will kill the larvae - for a small amount, a vault (box built of sheet goods) and a salamander heater (with very close attention paid) blasting thru it would take care of the buggers -
simply planing the boards will make them less attractive, as the adults lay eggs in crevices -
chemicals are most effective in preventing infestations by killing the adults before they lay eggs or killing just hatched larvae as they attempt to burrow in -
from 'Metcalf & Flint' "....by spraying the wood thoroughly with one of the following treatments: (a) 5 percent DDT or toxaphene, 2 percent chlordane, or 0.5 percent lindane in refined kerosene, (b) 5 percent pentachlorophenol in oil, (c) lime-sulfer, 2-3 gallons to 100 gallons of water, or (d) borax at 10 pounds to 100 gallons of water containing 4 ounces sodium lauryl sulfate...."
you may have to visit your old family lumber yard to get some of those chems....
"there's enough for everyone"
oh ####when in doubt add garlic
likely there is next springs larval generation infesting the boards
Might that mean that the boards that show no holes probably already have infestation?
when in doubt add garlic
Edited 10/31/2006 11:39 pm ET by rez
Might that mean that the boards that show no holes probably already have infestation?
maybe - lots of factors involved in insect population dynamics - the existing holes show that at least one generation has completed - the adults that emerged last summer have likely mated and layed eggs - some adults may have dispersed, some eggs fail, in all likelyhood some eggs were layed in your stacks and have burrrowed into your boards - maple is one of the favorites -
but don't make it a bigger deal than it is - it would take several more generations before the boards are severly compromised -
a couple of things you could do -
change the location of the stacks - they don't need to be stickered any more, put them up in the top of a barn where it is hot and dry - very little PPB activity in such areas -
the borax strategy is decent and relatively cheap - if you have a pump up sprayer, you can soak the stack -
damn man, manufacture your flooring! a few PPB holes add character, and if you don't like 'em, they fill easy - get those boards nailed down and finished and 'problem solved' -
"there's enough for everyone"
It's issue FWW#34
A couple of people have mentioned heat....might work, but I don't think it will: yes, you can kill bugs this way, but it will also degrade your lumber considerably, and maybe turn it to junk.
This is an issue for all the hardwood people around here, and it isn't resolved.....every country is tightening up on importing bugs via wood, so there are agreements in place that all hardwood lumber has to be heat-treated (this is under the Canadain Food Inspection Agency here, and the equivalent in the U.S.....both orgs already have, or will have, inspectors in foreign ports to inspect cargos before they even get to our ports). I forget the numbers, but it's something like 10 hours at such and such a temperature. This cooks the bugs, but it also destoys the wood as far as furniture etc goes....especially maple, and it ruins the colour. No big deal if you are making pallets (and pallets are what is being focused on right now), but a big deal if you are making furniture components, flooring etc. We are working on kiln schedules that will meet both requirements, but as of last week (when we had a discussion about his), not there yet.
Bottom line, for me.....if you have a reliable container and a heat source, yes you can cook the bugs......but, I think, you will lose your lumber for anything appearance related.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
I don't normally have good luck with the search but I gave it a try and got a good one for starters.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=2074
You could make some fancy maple cribbage boards out of it all. LOL!
What about heat instead of chemicals? Run the boards through a kiln with high heat.
Make yourself an Indian hothouse. Roast out the buggers. Then sell the hothouse to AndyC to go alongside his tipi.
Rez,
Here is response from Dr. Gene Wengert wood advisor on the web site http://www.woodweb.com.
Q: Is there any way to get rid of powderpost beetles riddling oak beams with holes?
A: Heat (over 130 F for 24 hours or more is required) is very effective in killing the eggs and the insects. After the insects lay their eggs, it may be up to two years before they hatch, so be careful about an inspection that shows no further damage--there can be more in a while.
-------------------------------
Might be worth while to have the lumber kiln dryed to kill your powder post friends
Edited 11/1/2006 9:23 pm ET by BOBABEUI
eek.
Not willing to get that involved in the process so it looks like there is no way around loading the sprayer with sodium lauryl sulfate and borax.
be 2 years and that's scary.when in doubt add garlic