Building is one story ranch 44’X28′ with walk out. Planned on carrying beam splitting the 28′ dimension and using 14′ 2X10’s or 2X12 floor joists 16″OC. It has been suggested that I consider keeping the carrying beam and using 28′ long I joists- probably 9 1/2″ deep 16″OC. Planned on glued and nailed 3/4″ TG (AdvanTech) as subfloor.
I’ve read all the wonderful things about I joists. Is the cost differential worth the increased performance or is money better spent elsewhere? I know costs are voliatal but what is the approx cost difference- I’d probably have used 2×12’s?
Same guy suggested roof trusses 16″ OC with 1/2 ply rather than 24″OC and clipped 5/8″ ply. Thoughts?
Thanks
Skippy
Replies
Those skinny joists don't impress me, but I guess sometimes they make some sense.
I love them.
I love open web trusses more, as do my subs, mechanical and electrical.
My own house is 28' thru and floor framed with TJIs at 19.2" OC over beam. Same depth as yours - but there are four different configurations for varying strength.
I framed that floor and sheathed it alone in six hours. Same floor would probably have taken me close to two days working with sawn solid lumner.
I am a fan of rframing roofs at 16" OC and 5/8" sheathing but that layout seems like overkill with trusses. Your anser there has a bit to do wqith location and required snow loads.
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I like it.
As Piffin says, the engineered products make for faster installation and the "flatness" of I joists will also work in your favor.
I've heard, but can't quantify, that long joists that have multiple clear spans are more rigid than the conventional separate joists for separate spans. Something about the way the adjacent dead loads minimize the bounce.
My curiousity was piqued so I did some digging. Here is a quote from the 1993 "Span Table for Joists and Rafters" by the AFPA. "Note that a uniform live load acting on equal spans of a continuous two-span joist will create less deflection and stress than an identical uniform load acting on a single joist."
You can find this document here:
http://www.awc.org/technical/spantables/tutorial.htm
Anyways, I used the .xls file that Boss recently posted to determine how bouncy your floor would be. With 9-1/2" #110 TJI's (1-3/4"x9-1/2") your vibration cycle will be 18 cycles per second (Hz). A value of >15 is considered good. Here is a link to that thread:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=21010.1
*Edited to add quote from AFPA span table
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com
Fredericksburg, VA
Edited 12/19/2005 7:22 pm ET by JonBlakemore
I guess I'm the minority, but I can't agree at all that I-joists make for a faster installation. On a simple layout they might, but not on a cut-up one.
It's not uncommon for me to frame a floor system with I-joists where the framing package has, literally, 20 different joist lengths, 2 or 3 different flange sizes, and 1/2 dozen or more different pieces of hardware to sort through. Cut one wrong or alter the prescribed layout and you stand a very good chance of holding up your frame for a day or two waiting for a replacement piece. I joists packages aren't framing drops, they're gigantic jigsaw puzzles. Ever try to handle 42' joists? Machine or no machine, they're just a logistical nightmare on many sites.
Gimme a lift or two of 2x10's any day.
However, that's just an installer's point of view. On the other side, there is no question that they give you a flatter truer floor. I also can't argue with the fact that I-joists are fantastic from a design point of view, enabling fantastic clear spans that conventional lumber couldn't come close to. On my own house, we clear spanned the 2nd floor 26' to allow unlimited reworking of the existing first floor and eliminated the installation of additional beams, posts, and point loads. They were a huge time saver in this particular application.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I think they give a 'better' floor, but they aren't always the simpler solution of the two options.
Brian,You have a very good point. Most of the projects we do have relatively simple floor plans. I can see how the custom home framer could spend a lot more time with all the details.What size and joists did you use for your addition? Engineered joists are awesome for when you need to clear span over a first floor without regard to what lies in the now bearing walls.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, we used 16" BCI's with a 2 1/2" flange to clear span 24' and then another 2' cantilever in the back. 16" OC and the only real cutting was the around the stair hole. Like I said, I-joists were a fantastic solution on the addition. We were able to frame the entire 2nd floor without really disturbing the existing living space at all.
But man, those layouts on the cut-up floor plans can leave you wasting an awful lot of time sorting through the pile and scratching your head. You really have to get organized. I also see a ton more flush framing now than even a couple of years ago too. Whereas floor plans used to be designed around central bearing walls and bearing points, now the designers and architects can pretty much do anything knowing that a beam can be sized to make it all happen.
All that flush framing can slow things down big time. Not just with hardware installation, but now you've got to ensure that your joists are cut to a very specific length and square on both ends. Big difference between framing joists that land on top of a wall and joists that flush frame into a beam. Which brings me to another pet peeve with I-joists... you always have to check the ends to make sure they're cut square. You might get three 2x10's in a lift that aren't square out of the pile. The I-joists we get are rough cut to size at the yard with a chainsaw leaving at least one ragged end... sometimes two. PIA to walk to the other end of a 30' joist before you hook your tape.
I wouldn't mind all that, but the "word on the street" seems to always be that I-joists are so much faster to install. I find it very difficult to get paid for the extra time an I-joist system can take to frame compared to it's equivalent dimensional lumber equivalent. And that's my only real gripe.
Just don't have a little fire under those I-joists. 2 bys will char. Gives you time to put the fire out.
My brother-in-law is a fireman and he says they ratherly safe an I-joist framed house.
OK.
?????
I think he meant "rarely save". Those little things burn fast from what I hear, but don't have any real data to support that.
Edited 12/19/2005 8:50 pm ET by MarkH
My only experience with their flammability is when I've burned the scraps in a bonfire at jobsites.
They go up in a hurry.
I could see where that could be true. In fact I've heard that a few times before. If anything, the existing 2x6 ceiling is still in place at our house, with the I-joist floor system framed right over them. But even if they weren't, I still wouldn't hesitate to use them for a house of my own. Live in fear or float in faith. I've got more to worry about than stuff like that. I hear the same thing about roof and floor trusses as well but I don't see residential concrete homes taking hold much either. There's always a compromise.
I agree with that. Fires are rare and largely under your control. So be smart, don't set your house on fire and you will be fine with I-Joists. But if your kid plays with matches . . .
No, of course I can't argue that I-joists would burn faster. I agree whole heartedly although I've never seen any published documentation, but it does seem like common sense.
I'm sure there's lots of choices in homebuilding that make a house more or less prone to a total loss in a fire. Siding choices, roofing choices, lumber choices, even choices of wall covering. But I just think that unless it's a blatantly dangerous product like kerosene soaked wall paper, it's probably not worth too much extra thought. Maybe I've just been fortunate enough to not be around many home fires in my lifetime. Maybe I should think about such things more often. Sometimes when I hear people worry about stuff like that, I wonder how they find the time. Man if that was the biggest thing on my plate to concern myself with, I'd call it a good day!
Basically, that is what I was saying in my last post.
The other thing to think about is that in many cases even if the house does not colapse i the fire, everything else in it is wrecked. So what difference does it make if it has I-joists and colapses or 2x10 and stands but all the improtant stuff is gone?
Re: "Might be the difference between a total loss, and perhaps one where a fireman got hurt trying to save your stuff, or kids, and a partial loss where you, and your kids, can still salvage some, or most, of your stuff.I think that I-joists have a lot of promise and some significant advantages. As with anything trick is to get the advantages while minimizing the disadvantages. I think I-joists are so well established in the modern industry that short of revealing that they cause cancer and will cause the allies to lose the war they are here to stay. So, it seems to me, that we need some way of protecting the I-joists from heat. My first thought was intumescent paints. Perhaps it would be wise to have I-joist, and perhaps all sensitive structures, painted with this stuff. Imagine a two coat spray job done in both attic and crawl space that would give you a one hour rating on all the wood. Fires wouldn't easily catch and if they catch they wouldn't spread. There would be plenty of time to get the family out and the firemen in. And the firemen would charge in knowing the roof wasn't going to come down on them. They could concentrate on getting to the root of the fire and putting it out. Most of the house and its contents might be saved. No more 'surround and drown', where the neighborhood but not the house itself is saved, as SOP.Found a neat presentation. Download isn't too bad. I'm on dial-up and it only took a few minutes.http://www.presentationpro.com/Viewer/Viewer.asp?p=/viewer/EPviewer4.swf?MURL=/viewer/presentations/20031013/989783237/sn576087.SWF&MH=540&MW=720&NoF=1&NoE=1&PC=121B25&MsgID=968749&VER=3OK, it's a advertisement but, on the face of it, if it works half as well as advertised and has a reasonable cost I would consider wide application on any home I was building for myself. Is this a solution? Who knows? Perhaps the I-joist manufacturers could buy a clue and treat their product at the factory. Mass production and large quantities would surely lower the price of application.
Brian,I've been doing fire jobs for the past 15 years and they aren't pretty. The worst ones and most dangerous ones I worked on were the ones with I-joists and roof trusses.The roof trusses are the worst to demo and most dangerous. Once the bottom chord burns out the whole truss is shot. If just the top part of the truss burns (rafter part) your still in trouble as far as demo because you have nothing to stand on. So taking burnt trusses down is very dangerous and takes a lot more time to do and it cost a lot more money to fix because you have to replace the whole truss.When you work on a fire job with 2x lumber at least they don't burn all the way through and you still have something to stand on. If the ceilings burn in the center of the house at least your rafters are still good. Sometimes the ceilings burn on the outside of the walls and therefore the birdsmouth of the rafters are burnt also and the rafters have to be replaced. But that's okay because the center of the ceiling joist are still good and you can put at temporary wall under the end and use the ceiling joist as a scaffold to take off the rafters.The plywood in the I-joists was gone and there was nothing left to the I-joist. I would say that an I-joist with 1/2" plywood burns faster than a 1-1/2" 2x.Every house fire is a little different and the approach you take is different. You can't just have a demo company come in there and demo a fire job because you have to know exactly what your doing and taking out step by step what is burnt and what is structural because you can't either knock everything down or kill yourself first if you take out the wrong piece first.Joe Carola
Edited 12/21/2005 5:28 pm ET by Framer
Are you knocking my brother-in-law? LOL!
Well, . . . he does safe the 2 x 10 joist built houses. Maybe he just hates I-joists and just lets them burn. LOL.
Actually, I know he works in a rural area of Montana, so response time may not be what they can be in urban areas. However, it is just a fact that I-joists burn through fast.
You can not deny that. ?
I joists do burn faster and hotter and you can add that to the list of advantages. It's an advantage because when I'm looking for fuel for my fire bucket, the Ijoists are a great find.
Actually, you can list the drops and scraps from I joist as a disadvantage because they're basically good for nothing and they have to be hauled to the dumpster whereas scraps from dimensional lumber are often used as blocking and backing an a variety of things.
One more disadvantage of I joists: they're useless as planking and scaffolding. I'm currently in the final stages of a house using I joists. At this stage, I quite normally need a small supply of planks for various reasons: scaffolds, walkplanks, temp beams, etc. Since the main decks was I joist, there isn't the usual variety of long length planks leftover. Luckily, we had a small supply of 2x10's leftover from the basement bracing. Unfortunatly, the longest length is 10' but we'll manage.
blue
Brian,
I agree with your post. More often than not, we can frame a 2x10 or 12 floor more quickly. The I-joist plan takes a lot more reading and you have to sort the pile so as not to miscut anything.
I'll definitely agree that the more fancy design layouts increase the time for I-joists and are less forgiving of errors. A straight ranch or cape avoids that though and I think is what was mentioned here, can't remember now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Oops, you're right. I guess I was just kind of commenting on that whole "labor savings with Ijoists" thing. Seems to me that you mention I-joists and the next thing that comes out of someone's mouth is "easy to install". It's usually someone who is either writing me checks or potentially writing me checks and has never installed an I-joist himself.
Not often covered in the building community, as far as I can tell, is that fire departments are not overly pleased by the extensive use of I-joists.
Wood structural members with large cross-sections have a considerable ability to take damage without failing. The very large cross-sections used in post and beam frames can often withstand charring to an inch or more without failing catastrophically.
Even the much less bulky 2by members can withstand considerable charring without failing to the point the roof, and the firemen on top, falling in on the firemen underneath.
I joists don't enjoy such redundancy because of their thinner cross-sections. Fire can cause destroy their strength in a very short time. After which the firemen cannot climb onto or enter into the structure without risking everything.
I-joists are wonderful technology. They are light, stiff and strong while using, within their webs, wood which would be discarded or used for lesser products. Makes sense conservation wise.
But as with any newer material and technique it has limitations. IMHO I-joists need to be modified to address their vulnerability to fire. Perhaps in-tumescent paint, a thick paint which swells and chars to form a layer of insulation when exposed to fire, could be applied to them to give the firemen enough time to rescue people and fight the blaze.
Interesting point re fire issues.
Thanks to all.
Is there a cost differential between 2X and I joists? Do I make-up for that diff in a reduction in labor costs?
Skippy
I'm not a big fan of I-joists. But they go in roughly 80% of new houses around here, so somebody must like 'em.
These are my opinions of I-joists vs. 2X lumber:
The advantages of I-joists are:
1. flatter floor because they're straighter.
2. Less installation labor. (But not a whole lot)
3. No culls - Every piece is usable
The disadvantages of I-joists are:
1. Lead time - You have to order them and wait for delivery.
2. Slightly higher material cost.
3. Depths don't match 2X lumber, so mixing I-joists + lumber is a pain
4. Fire concerns (More on that later)
With 2X framing, the advantages are:
1. Lower material cost
2. Readily available - Every lumberyard has 'em on hand
The disadvantages are:
1. Culls from warped and twisted lumber
2. Squeaks from split lumber
.
I did a thread a couple of years ago called "I-joists roasting on an Open Fire". It gives you an idea of how fast an I-joist burns. You can check it out here:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=37987.1
.
Three's a thread on floor vibration here that's worth reading before you make any decisions about your floor system:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=21010.1
.
You also mentioned setting roof trusses 16" O.C. vs. 24" O.C.
Personally, I think that's nuts. You gain almost nothing with 16" centers, but increase the cost of your roof framing by 40 to 50%.
Contrary to what you might think, going with 16" centers does NOT make your roof stronger.
If someone orders trusses for 24" centers, we design them for that loading criteria. But if they order them for 16" centers, we design them for THAT loading. So either way your roof is designed for the same PSF loading.
So I would strongly recommend against that, unless you have extreme roof loads wherever you're from. That's the only reason I could think of that would make it worthwhile.
The advantages of I-joists are:
1. flatter floor because they're straighter.2. Less installation labor. (But not a whole lot)3. No culls - Every piece is usable
I agree with # 1 and 3, but I don't agree at all with #2.
It takes substantially longer to install I Joists. Probably 50% more in labor.
blue
Virtually every framer I know says that I-joists take less labor to install. I can't think of any who have said it takes longer. Given your generally poor attitude towards trusses in general, I hope you understand if I take your opinion with a grain of salt.
No woman needs intercourse - Few women escape it. [Andrea Dworkin]
Boss,
I agree with Blue. He may have a poor attitude :-), but he is right about I-joists taking longer on avg., especially if there is no machine on the job. This isn't just my opinion, but the opinion of many here the great PacNW. I can guarantee you with a machine that I can get the joists scattered faster than most guys can get their I-joists packages unbundled and sorted. Then walk the walls and cut the waste, one guy cuts the waste into blocking.
We have underfloor framing inspections now, and we can get the floor framed and ready faster with dimensional than I-joists. The inspectors have commented on this too. Part of that might be because rolling dimensional is a no brainer and I-joists take some more thinking. They spec certain beams under certain walls, certain flange types, certain hangers, etc etc.
"They spec certain beams under certain walls, certain flange types, certain hangers, etc etc."
Are you doing a lot of stick framed roofs? That may account for some of the difference.
Around here roof trusses have a 99%+ market share. So interior beams are unusual.
You cannot produce a baby in one month by impregnating nine women.
Ya, we stick nearly everything, although we did to one truss roof recentlyand they still spec'd the beams.
I gotta cast a vote for I-joists being slower too. See my posts above if you're at all curious to the reasons why.
Tim, you are right on the money regarding the shuffling and sorting issues regarding I joists.
With dimensional lumber, I typically take a walk and mentally note the longest sizes of the joist packages. I quickly get a sense of where the premium lengths and quantities of them are. After that, we just grab the bunks of the routine 14's, 16's and in a matter of minutes will have them spread. We typically complete only one span at a time and it's not hard to imagine getting a simple span done (joists stood up and nailed) in an hour or less. Even the slow guys can do that walking back and forth endlessly and needlessly....
Heres a couple pics of Frank trying to sort through an obnoxiously large pile of i joists with it's ridiculous pile of microlams. These were 14" high I joists-very long and very heavy. I had to get into almost perfect position to roll one up, which was impossible because of the grade. So instead of easily rolling 16' dimensional lumber, I had to team up with another guy to help me. The simple act of teaming up wastes at least 10% or more time because invariably, one guy or the other will always be faster and therefore have to wait idly while the other guy completes his task.
The sorting takes two guys and the machine. Anyone that would tackle a job like this without the machine would be either heros or nuts: take your pick. Frank was forced to spread the joists over a ridiculous amount of space to get a handle on it. That muddied the road to a very significant degree and we all had to spend time with shovels even after we scraped it clean with the bucket. That wouldn't have happened with dimensional joist. Yes, there'd be a couple of muddy tracks where we grabbed the bunks, but there'd only be two trips for the first deck!
I don't mind the truss companies bragging about the real benefits of I joist: longer spans, flatter decks etc., but it kinda peeves me when they tell the clients that the labor bill will be cheaper as a means of justifying (balancing) their expense. It's a flat out lie when they portray the use of I joist, and floor trusses as a labor saver. In some rare cases they might actually be close to being the same but those cases are rare indeed.
blue
Blue,
That was a well written post. You make framing sound respectable :-)
I couldn't agree with you more. I do like I-joists for the end result they provide, but I sure don't like working with them 100% of the time. Especially some of the larger flanges. I'm used to using a wormdrive anyway, so when we use some of the large flange I-joists I'm using the Bigfoot all day. I'm not comfortable with the newer guys using a saw (with guard) that is more dangerous.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/8885471/122155690.jpg
And trusses take longer than I joists!
What can I say Boss. I've framed house for about 30 years now. About ten of them have been I joists. The one were on now is I joist. Frank spent more time organizing and finding the right joists for each section than it would take me to install the entire house with "real" wood joists.
The "cut" sheet was the most ridiculous thing we've ever seen. For instance: they sent 20 footers to be cut into three pieces. Okay...they also sent 40's to be cut into 20's for the 20 sections!
The plop down a pile of a couple hundred ijoist with not a single dimension on any of them. They're all mixed up, upstairs with the lower level. Some have to be cut into as many as six pieces. They sent 18' for the 14' section. The four foot drop was to be cut into blocks for inbetween the spans on the bearing wall.
And lets not get started about how difficult it is to make the connections on headers as compared to dimensional lumber.
Oh, I almost forgot that they shorted us one 28'er. That took a week to get re-shipped. It showed up at the 11th hour as we would have been going home because we couldn't have continued until it arrived.
When we frame decks using dimensional lumber, we work one beam span at a time. For instance, a typical basement might have three spans. We'll set the closest beam, run all the joist, sheet the deck, then start on the next span. With I joist, since they span them all the way in one piece, we are forced to set all the beams before any joist can be set. That completely changes the way our system works. It significantly slows down the flow of the job. In a walkout situation, it forces us to get the walkout wall standing before we can set any joists. This creates a situation that forces us to use the least efficient method of aligning and bracing the walkout wall.
It's okay if you don't believe me. Your framers tell you it's faster and that's okay. They probably are right-maybe Im so old I'm getting senile. Forget everything that is written above-it's probably just a figment of my imagination.
blue
hey bosshog: built a house for a guy had an archictect, engineers stamps all over the plans and a dachsund with a frequency that must of been down around three. i'm talking knocking china off the shelves. ask me how many i-joist floors i've had framed since then. been my experience if you up the build to abouit 460 they work good[ i double the X-bracing and close the spacing} make a nice flat floor if you know their weak points. jim
Looking at your profile, I see you haven't been a member for too long. So you probably don't know that I'm extremely conservative with floor design. That's why I did the floor vibration thread that I referenced earlier.The floor you mentioned isn't the fault of I-joists in general. Take ANY floor framing system and push it too far, and you'll have problems. If you're using X-bracing with I-joists, I'd say something is wrong. They perform fine if they're designed correctly.
Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself
nope, haven, been a member long,pushing 35 years gc though. the span tables for I-jsts are too optimistic, don't care what the books say, when I get a call from a ho wants to know why the hoo his floor bounces, [installed per spec.] inquiring minds want to know. sure I can fix them, but its better to spend the money up front and not have a refference out there going "I love my house but"he really did fix it right away' like it was my problem in the first place. what do I say, uh' I guess the truss guy was a moron, or, everybody knows pintos were great cars? I could spread the crap around real far some times but all you get is everything covered in crap. my name goes on it I'm going to try to keep the smell down. jim ps. after I wrote this I read it back and remembered you're a truss guy, nothing personal, your posts I've read seem straight up. jim
Could you please break up your paragraphs with by pressing enter every once in a while?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Span tables are just a guide and/or the max spans. You also have to use your head, just like with any other floor system.
Did you read the Floor Vibration thread? That will shed a lot of light on why some floors have a different "feel" than others.
The point about breaking posts into paragraphs was a good one - Makes 'em a lot easier to read.
If walking is so good for you, why do mailmen look like that?
maybe I need to clarify, 3 building now, smallest about 11k ft. sq. not a square corner in the lot, one withaut any corners at all, all curves. what should I do,give the plan to some poor B'stard at the truss place[ or better yet, at three truss places-got to get bids!] and get back something even Einstein could'nt figu re out? yeah, put that in a bid. the thing about paragraphs- do you speak in paragraphs? only people I've heard speak in paragraphs are politicians [I think the breaks are waiting for applause].ps as near as I can recall,my trping skills peaked in the 60's [kinda foggy back then]. jim
460 what? Denominator fo the Deflection proportion?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Generally, what is the price diff between 28'LF of 2X10 and 28'LF of 9.5" I joist?
Thanks for all the info. The snow loads here are not unusual- western MA, so the 24"OC roof trusses make the most sense.
Skippy
"Generally, what is the price diff between 28'LF of 2X10 and 28'LF of 9.5" I joist?"
Pricing varies with both a great deal. You're much better off checking locally.
Bumpersticker: Don't laugh at these fogged up windows. It's your daughter in here.
I gotta say I like TJIs or BCIs whatever. I can't see how they take longer. They are less than half the weight than dimensional lumber. They are the standard in these parts. I don't understand what the sorting issue is. I make a quick jig that I can use to zing square with my 8" skilsaw. Before I start sometimes, I order one or two options stronger. My engineer tends to overbuild except when it comes to floor joists. I try to avoid hangers and bear on walls and girders. Less squeaks. You get to do these things when you do your own designing. I really like the fact that they are light because I am old and although I can do it I prefer not to. The cost difference is negligible when you take into account the whole cost of the house. There is more labor in my opinion with dimensional lumber. A 2x12 which is the usual option sure shrinks a lot too. The trees are not so good anymore either.
As for fire.... A lot of firemen sit around a lot more because of the invention of drywall. If I install wood ceilings I always install firetaped drywall underneath. It costs extra but that's what I do. It should be code.
I don't understand what the sorting issue is. I make a quick jig that I can use to zing square with my 8" skilsaw.
They are less than half the weight than dimensional lumber.
I can't see how they take longer.
Mike, you're obviously getting better packages than we are around here. I've alreadys posted our sorting issues: five minutes with dimensional lumber vs four or six hours with the tji package.
As for the weight: I am a very weak man, but I've never had to ask for help picking up one dimensional joist. I can't even lift one end of a 40' 14" I joist.
Can't see how they take longer? It's simple: we routinely frame on houses that are designed specifically to fit the normal lenth spans of dimesional joists. That means that it's not uncommon to put in 90% of the dimensional joists without cutting them. They lap at the beam so theres no need for a jig to "zing square" with a saw of any dimension. That contrasts sharply to the I joist package that we just installed.
You've probably been using I joists for so long, you've forgotten how convenient (and fast) it is to use dimensional lumber.
Okay, just for fun, lets get down to brass tacks. Please list all the benefits of I joist that speed up the process of framing a deck. Don't bother to list the other benefits, I'm already conceded that they have some better redeeming qualities. I'm just trying to dispel the myth that I joist are faster.
The only benefit that I can think of is that the i joist have a wider top flange and it's easier to hit them when fastening, but that hardly compensates for the multitude of issues that slow down the process.
blue
I couldn't agree more with your position on I-joist installation. I think your 50% guestimate on increased installation time if a fair ballpark. I'm trying to actually find a dollar value to use to mark up my I-joist frames. I knew they were slowing us down over the past year where we didn't see any dimensional lumber. But right now we're finishing up the first house we've framed in over a year with dimensional lumber and after the first week on site it became painfully obvious to me how much faster we were moving with the 2x10s.