I may have to stop with the screws thing
Actually, this posts title should read: “I may have to stop being an advocate for using screws in Simpson connectors to replace nails… because Simpson may soon be doing it themselves!”, but the title length is limited on this forum.
Let me back up a little here. Many of you know that I luuuuv my screws… well, I love CERTAIN screws, and I love using them in place of nails, and I love using them in metal connectors like the Simpson Strong Tie. I’m not talking about their 1/4″ SDS screws, nor their wafer head MDF screws either. If anyone needs more background, do a search on “Screws vs Nails”.
Anyway.
I was just at the JLC Live event in Anaheim. I had a couple of new screws I brought along as talking points (hey, I love these things, remember?). I was watching the Quickdriv demonstrator go to town on he samples, and he asked me what I thought as I looked at the screws he was using. I commented that this was fine and all, but what I was interested in was a Simpson made screw for their connectors – and not that ridiculous SDS thing! He got this knowing look on his face and brought me over to a couple of other guys there. One was an engineer in their testing division, another was in product development I think.
After making it clear we were all talking “Off the record about nothing in particular” it was made clear that the Quickdrive aquisition was for more than securing decking. They might be looking at ways to drive in screws as fast as positive placement nailers. They might be looking at screw sizes for connectors in the 3/16 or smaller size. 1 3/8″ length. They were VERY interested in some #10 screws from one of the other vendors, as it might be a patent infringement.
I didn’t get any indication of dates, but it is clear there is something big comming down the pipe.
The engineer who does the break testing on their products told me that he used screws in connectors all the time on his own house!
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Replies
Does anyone make CRX screws?
IT IS KNOWN THAT GUNNER HAS A PERCULIUR AFFINNITY FOR CORKSCREWS
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
Edited 5/20/2006 4:02 pm ET by rez
GRK and Piffins...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I GRoK that.
IS THAT A GUNNER GROK?
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
Yup. Honda. Or Sony, if you are a PC geek.
On the other hand, if a "CRX" screw to me is what a "Piffen" screw is to Piffen, then I guess the answer is McFeelys, or Phillips, and maybe a few new ones I found at that show :)Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
so ya still haven't learned how to use a hammer yet huh?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I like hammers too - don't get me wrong. Why, just the other day I was building a shelf and I had a problem with books falling off either end. It was a great use of hammers placing them on either end to keep the books from tipping over...
Also good for holding the door open when I bring in groceries...
You can drill a hole in the handle and attach a line to it to keep you boat from drifting away from your favorite fishing spot...
Tose two sharp tines on the back make it easy to reach that itch in the middle of your backside...
I'm sure there are other uses too, but bookends, doorstop, boat anchor, and buttscratcher are about all I can think of as a use for a hammer. ;)
BTW, do you know what would be a good size washer to use when I screw on 9 sq. of asphalt shingles this summer? I'm not sure if I need a fender washer or not...Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Reminds me of the Mexican working on a house in Newport Ore. a couple of weeks ago. He was installing some big Simpson holddowns ,the ones with lots of screws into the stud (or post). No room for a screw gun so he was banging them in with the side of his hammer.
I wonder if he uses the face of the hammer to drive screws when there are no obstructions.
LOL! I did that once while hanging drywall. I reached for a nail and came out with a screw. I banged it in anyways and my foreman went nuts. I handed him my hammer and told him to pull it out. A helical fastener with a mishaped head...;-)
I've banged in dw screws with a hammer many times. If there's just a few to do and I don't have the gun on me and all I have is screws in the pouch I say "screw it!", and bang away. You're right, just try pulling them out.
Using screws in simpson hardware. depends on your building inspector. Most won't stick their neck out . Normally they say use what simpson tested with the meet their engineering specs. If you ever have a failure for any reason and didn't use the specified fastener It's you neck on the block.
The hold downs come with screws.
Awww sCreW you Paul!
Just teasin' ya.
I hope you didn't have an orgasm when that guy told you that. That would be embarassing!
Simpson is just trying to find some more ways to put the screws to the builders of America. They'll invent their screwing machine, then fudge the tests and pretty soon everyone will think that screws are the only way. That's what they did with joist hangers.
We have five million homes in the Metro Detroit area that function quite well without joist hangers, (we used to use joist angles), hurricane ties, sill plates, or sill anchors. There ain't a simpson fastener in any one of them and none seem to be any worse for the wear.
Simpson sucks and I hope they go bankrupt.
blue
"Simpson sucks and I hope they go bankrupt."
I say better to work a deal with the devil.
told the wife a while back to ask the guy who runs our retirement fund to check them out. I see growth. They seem to find more ways each year to get more metal into more buildings ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
They seem to find more ways each year to get more metal into more buildings ...Using that logic I am investing in the Canadian forestry industry cause by the time Cory gets to building they will be trying to figure out how to get more wood into buildings.Then again I heard about this deal about using straw bales-----Mike"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" Mitremike c. 1990" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Simpson is just trying to find some more ways to put the screws to the builders of America. They'll invent their screwing machine, then fudge the tests and pretty soon everyone will think that screws are the only way. That's what they did with joist hangers.
We have five million homes in the Metro Detroit area that function quite well without joist hangers, (we used to use joist angles), hurricane ties, sill plates, or sill anchors. There ain't a Simpson fastener in any one of them and none seem to be any worse for the wear.
Simpson sucks and I hope they go bankrupt.
blue
I'd like to know more about this. Simpson doctored up their tests on their joist hangers? They are such a mainstay here in CA earthquake country that its hard to imagine a house being built without them. But you are saying that you used to use them and now you are doing it differently??
Thanks,
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
xxpaulCPxx
I'm a strong advocate of screws myself.. Look at my double timberframe, how many house have you ever seen where the majority of the fasteners are screws (er, lag bolts)
Yet I accept the fact that they cannot be driven in as fast as nails can and since speed because of labor costs are paramount realize that any driven screw will effectively work as a ringshank nail.. Thus losing much of the potential strength.
Simpson connectors may change the stregth of a rafter to top plate connection from 208 pounds to 3150 pounds that still is massively inferior to the 15,000 pounds I claim for my rafter to top plate connections.
Simpsons connectors fail not due to the nails which are in shear but due to failure of the plates.. If we assume a 75 MPH wind speed. on an 1800 sq ft roof with 86 connections The upwards wind lift would generate 31, 824 pounds. or 370 pounds per connection.. nails would fail since they only provide 208 pounds per connection. If we were to use a simple Simpson H3 connector we then go to 1,002 pounds perconnection.. well in excess of the 75 Mph wind speed mentioned.
However a single 3/8ths inch lag screw provides 2783 pounds, Since there was no indication that a pilot hole was drilled, I assume the actual numbers would be dramatically increased, and if a hardwood such as white oak were used instead of spruce or ("western white woods") the failure numbers would go up dramatically.. increase the size of the lag screw from 3/8ths to 1/2 inch and the strength goes up dramatically increase the bearing size from 1 1/2 wide to six inches wide and the numbers go up even further. increase the count of lag screws from one to 11 per connection and the strength is in excess of 15,000 pounds..
Man, you're just a nut.
;)Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
xxpaulCPxx
Man it's embaressing the stuff my brain traps in it, Do you want to know the fuel curve for a twin turbo'd Jaguar V-12 engine? it's in there. As is the advance curve of an MGTD distributor, (actually all four factor settings as well as the five versions used in the factory tune up manual..) Want serial numbers and casting numbers of most small block chevy engines from 1955 thru 1973?
I can't spell and have the devils own time using a computer but the worthless trivia is well and truly stuck in there..
ABABDBACDA
Those are the multiple choice answers, in order, for a chemistry test my senior year of HS. That was 20 years ago now, and it was a pretty minor test. Why is that still wedged in there now, yet I have to set a daily alarm to pick my kids up from pre-school?Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
XPAG ayuh
Did you ever finish your garage?
Simpson already sells screws for use with hangers. They have for some time.