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How does one become a builder of “Fine Homes” and become wealthy? I like some advice on getting started. I have a “tract” record building for a production builder, business degree and a love for the business. Should I build a spec? I do not want to get into home improvement, I am best at general contracting. I read the dicussion board often and there are alot of experienced guys out there. Any advice would be helpfull!
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You'd better go find your hip-waders. Yer going to need them....
*Bluntly: If you have been reading this Board AND you have the qualifications you state AND you still ask the question: There is No Way! Stick with what you are doing for your best chance at being at least "comfortable" if not "wealthy".I don't mean this as a "flame"; just as a matter of reality since you did ask the question.
*Just do it.
*jeff33... if you have the business degree, then u no the answer...if you are a production builder.. you have to make it up in volumeor stop being a production builder... 1 or da udder...
*Around here, all you need to be a contractor is a pickup truck with ladder racks. If you're a real pro, you can upgrade to a 4X4 dually.
*And don't forget the magnetic sign. Gotta have a magnetic sign.
*You need the clipboard gotta have the clipboard.
*Wealthy? Then you need a beard. Yeah, that's the ticket.
*Let me add as a wife of a GC if married you better have an UNDERSTANDING wife :-) If not married than go for it.Tamara
*Calvin, I kinda understand your comment, in that it's in the flow of the other messages. But isn't there a benefit to having a sign on the side of your vehicle?
*Ed ya,All the hotties can ya call ya when they see ya driving down the road
*You bet Ed, and since it's magnetic you can peel it off for non business related trips. I don't know, I guess I just about had my fill of guys that went right to builder and never stopped once at carpenter.....
*now I know why I went under.....no mag sign! Better get one this time 'round. Jeff
*Glad to help Jeff.Nother tip. When you get a job with a bunch of door closer installs....take the template and transfer it to that sign. Make it left and right hand. Saves hours.....sign don't look real good afterwords.Still traveling in March?
*Calvin,The signs are removeable just in case hubby comes home early. That way he cant track you to your house. :)
*No way Ron. Not everyone is as demented a SOB as you.
*Losers
*Losers, huh?Terry
*jeff.. you ask a losin question.. you get a losin answer... why don't you rephrase your question ? and lose the attitude
*Couldn't find your hip waders fast enough, 'eh ?You come in, claiming to be a tract-house builder, looking for the easiest way to become wealthy building "fine homes". You seem to hope there is some simple secret that will show you how to put lipstick on those tract pigs, and pretend to buyers that they are "fine Homes".You claim to read the discussion board a lot, and throw out the sideways complement of "experienced guys", in an attempt to shmooze the secret you think available. Then when no one takes your question seriously enough to make you happy... everyone here becomes "losers".Who is the greater loser ? After all, you asked the advice of all these 'losers'.I'm hoping you decide to stick around and actualy learn something. Maybe even contribute something so others can learn as well. But if you do, then I suggest you invest in some asbestos underwear, to wear at least until you grow some thicker skin.
*Well put Luka!
*Only thing you left out Luka was that this guy claims to have a business degree. If he really exists and really has a business degree he either is dumb as dirt or didn't learn anything in school.My bet is that this guy is really just one of those trollers who likes to pop onto boards, stir things up and move on.My vote is to give him the freeze until he either joins or leaves.
*There you go again, Fred. Insulting dirt.
*Calvin,If I said it once I said it a thousand times I definatly resemble that remark.
*Jeff really now mellow out. We need more info on exactly what you want. What I read by the verbage of your question is you want a get rich quick by way of construction. If thats all you really want to know. If that is really your question well I can answer that its quite easy really to answer.1st you have to bust your butt learn the trade and doing quality work building a excellent reputation.2nd you have to bust your butt working long hours , not spending time with your family, wife ect consentrating on the business coming home late dog tired going to sleep and doing it agai tomorrow. 3rd because of your hard work over a long number of years your rep builds and you can start getting larger higher end jobs that allow you to hire subs.4th now you have even more responsibility and are on call 24/7 so even after you drag your butt home dog tired and go to bed they still bother you. Because of the responsibility you now have your relationship with your families are strained even further and your working even longer and harder. Guys is there anything else im missing here. I know theres a lot more to it.
*Yeah Ron, you forget the part about having a rich uncle to bail you out when the customer stiffs you on an invoice.
*Good Ron, that's the first step to recovery. Best of luck.
*rich uncle.....rich uncle........no, I don't have one of those. What else can I use?
*Calvin, Yea im on the 1 st step of 20 step program (Im kinda slow ya know)No uncle well you can put your house, truck, tools everything else you own in hock and get a loan from shister and shister savings and loan.
*> How does one become a builder of "Fine Homes" and become wealthy?There's something I've never seen on this board before, Builder and wealthy in the same sentence.
*It seems that jeff33 crawled back under his rock.Or perhaps he made his million. After all, it is that easy. I'm glad no one gave him the secert password we use to ge the high end jobs.Ed.
*Ed! SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! you're not supposed to let anyone know that it even exists!
*>How does one become a builder of "Fine Homes" and become wealthy?Or......I really don't want to work for it ........but I really would like to have it.... there's GOT to be an easier way than putting my nose to the grind stone and giving up my head banger lifestyle..But like the old guy said......You must earn it....magic works only on your video game.
*Jeff33Something in me stirs when a young man shows the desire to learn my profession. I want to help him. I'm sure others here feel the same way, we're just put off by the way you phrased your question. You need to come back, explain yourself and take your medicine. There is help here, but if you're to green and arrogant to recognize your mistake then no one can help you. This is not meant as a flame, just advice for you in achieving your original goal, which is going to require that you take a lot of bad tasting medicine. You will need to be self aware and never tire of improving. Being a businessman is about people skills, if you don't want to learn them you're wasting our time.Terry
*>we're just put off by the way you phrased your questionWell, in a way, but I think the "loser" thing did it for me. I was actually going to give him a bit of hard earned advice......but then who wants to hear anything from a loser. No offence Jeff, but you can't diss the whole crowd and get any respect for yourself.
*When he eliminated "home improvements" he lost his chance to get rich quick. That's where the rich widow clientel is. Jeff53 needs to find a few of them to service. Dot it well and get written into the will.
*Jeff, You ever heard the phrase "cart before the horse"?Worry about doing a good job first. The wealth will come later.Damn kids anyway...steve
*JimI apologize for speaking for the group. I just felt that the fact was, people were having fun at his expense because of the verbiage in his original post. Instead of his lashing out, he could have re directed the discussion in a positive direction by qualifying his desire, and recognizing his original mistake. This would require more insight than he appears to possess, and, more than he apparently wants to achieve. Even with his shortcomings some among us, who I respect, have offered sound advise and he should be able to recognize this.Terry
*>Worry about doing a good job first. The wealth will come laterThere you go Jef33.......that's the answer you needed to hear. You can make money in ALL phases of building.......pick one and do the above. Chasing money is a waste of time...do it right...do it good... do it smart.... and the money will find you.
*If he is too shortsighted to enter into a discussion that he started or to proof read his post for caps and spelling, he is not intrested in good work. He's too impatient. He wants the wealth first while he dreams about what a good builder he will be someday.
*Piffin, Proofread, is one one word.Intrested is spelled Interested.Comma after first.Just FYI.
*Thanks professor. I didn't know any of that. Where did you learn it all.I don't normally criticize one for grammar and spelling here but as it was symptomatic of the original posters attitudinal problems, I thought it worth pointing out. Do you disagree with my conclusion as stated?
*uh, oh.. m i in trouble heah ?
*Like Luka said, "You'd better go find your hip-waders. Yer going to need them.... "
*Pif,I tink you speel fin.Ed.
*Guys I think Jeff33 was looking for a answer like,First you find a rich widowed old lady then you bid a job low on a cost plus contract then you to get to hose her by over charging for high end material and labor then use cheap substandard material and hack the stuff together plus padding the bill with a tail light warranty . Maybe he doesnt know about honesty, integrity plain old hard work and respect and reputation ect.
*"There's something I've never seen on this board before, Builder and wealthy in the same sentence."Im curious to know why it seems like a lot of builders here act like there is no money to be made being a builder?? Or wealth is unheard of??? Are you guys joking or serious?? Where I am from, every builder that I know has $$$ coming out of his ears...and I'm serious about that, they all have built 4,000+ sq ft homes for themselves, drive very nice cars, and have a full office staff, with great working cap. And have a minimum of 4 home going at any given time. You people make it sound like its a dead end job.....???
*Nobody said you can't make a comfortable living as a builder. Nor that some become wealthy, though the people you describe don't sound exactly wealthy, but rather comfortable.What you don't see are the people who tried to become builders and failed, because they don't advertise that fact.
*m3... like anything else in life...the income distribution in residential building looks like a bell curve... with a few well off at the top.. most in the middle and the bottom feeders bringing up the rear... i myself have been working my way off the bottom in between recessions...another thing is you gotta watch 'em over time... wealthy today & busted tomorrow...... i personally know 3 guys with companies that made the top 100 remodeling firm list in the country.. they all 3 have gone bust since making the list...it's amazing how builders & remodelers get to thinking it never ends.. then they get extended.. and all of a sudden they're sitting on debt they can't service..sounds like enron... don't it ?
*I know of a guy who made the top fifty. He seems to be wealthy. I run behind him making pretty good money fixing stiuff he left behind and growing my client list with satisfied customers while i get to hear them complain about him.Thing is, and Sonny will shoot me for this one, My goal is to do good work for people I like and make a little while doing it. I enjoy what I do. Other builders like the originator of the thread may make wealth their goal. If success is reaching your goal, then I've aready made it.
*I agree,There are successful builders and non-successful builders. The same goes for subs. Just because you WANT to be a "big dog" doesn't mean you can or can stay there.I'd say that for every five business dollars you make, you're probably gonna spend about four making it. That puts you in about the 20% profit range which is about right. Big house, big boats, big offices staffed with big people cost big money. And you're still in the 20% range. That's a lot of $5 bills to keep coming in day after day.....week after week......year after year.....When the money slows down (and it always does) you still have to pay for the big house, big boat, big office and big payroll.......or go bust.How come some of these builders with all the right stuff are bumming smokes off me?I had a sub once say to me, " I landed a job for $120,000! Can you believe it!? $120,000.00!"I told him, "That's great, unless the job cost you $121,000 to finish." You should have seen the look on his face.Ed.
*Wow, looks like I stired up the hornets nest pretty good. To all, I apoligize. I reponded poorly and did not intend to cast the stereotype across the board. The business is frustrating, hip waders and all. I am green to the business, just three years as a superintendent (five years as a carpenter while I went to school at night). I want to do my best for myself and my family and stay in the business I love. But,one cannot go to his employer who is very successfull and wealthy, and ask how did you do this, make all this money? How did you get started? and not fear for your job. So I turned to this forum with anonymity that I took for granted. So, thanks for all the responses, good and bad.
*Jeff33333, Welcome and have a hand up then. I would recommend staying with him for a couple more years with your eyes and ears open if he treats you right. Maybe do a single project on the side. Tell him about it. Let him know you value his advice and opinions and ask how to go about it without offending him or stepping on his toes, competition wise. Later, if you feel comfortable with the idea of going it alone, don't burn any bridges. Burning bridges stink up the neighborhood.Good luck! and sorry if I was too hard on you.A good book to read would be Napoleon Hill's "Think and grow rich" It has principles of success for any endeavor.
*Jeff:I have been meaning to respond to your original e-mail, I was not offended as some others were. I don’t happen to think having your goal of becoming a “builder of "Fine Homes" and becoming wealthy” is that bad, if fact if you can do it, maintain your ethics, a balanced life, and a good attitude more power to you. I started at age 24 with no money and no experience, went broke once along the way, probably learned more from that than anything, got back on my feet, back into the ring, and having been fighting ever since. In my 27th year, finally found out a few ways to make money, but I am still amazed every day how much I don’t know, how many alligators there are out in the swamp waiting to bite off one of my body parts. Not only have I experienced a lot myself, I have seen a lot of builders come and go. Most small custom builders like myself don’t last longer than 7-10 years. They flame out, go broke, commit suicide or die early deaths (seen at least 5 do that). It is a very stressful life, but can be very rewarding also. I have built about 100 spec’s and a 100 custom homes along the way, I prefer to do both. My advice is learn accounting, real estate law, marketing, get a good integrated software to run your company, and without fail save 10% annually in a retirement account. Join your local builders association, attend the national convention, go to seminars, talk to other SUCCESSFUL builders. Good luck, you will need it. Allan
*Now that's the way to enter a room Jeff. Let's see what transpires now.
*Help me Mr. Wizard,I don't wanna be a Builder anymore!Just Kidding,Honesty, sincerity and plain dealing will distinguish you from others, not to mention doing things correctly.Lots of luck.PLP
*Jeff, ...and if you ever want to talk to one of the unsuccessful builders, you can email me... I can tell you all the things I did that didn't earn me the wealth of the biz. ;)Mike
*Jeff,Welcome back,Looks like you can take it......so, you just might make it.Do everything on the up and up. Don't cheat the client or yourself.You may not win them all, but the one's you do will count ten fold.Best of luck to you.I can't speak for everyone here....but I will....We love giving advice to someone who is willing to learn from our mistakes. Know-it-alls need not apply.I am not a GC. They just hire us to do the carpentry portion of the job they sold and get it done right the first time. I will only give advice on something that I think my input will be beneficial. There are tons of things that I know "a little" about, but not enough to hold forth here on. To be a good GC, you should have a good working knowledge of ALL the trades involved. Otherwise, how are you gonna know when someone is ripping you off?Ed.
*Jeff,Why do you say you can't ask your wealthy boss what he did? Most people like to see that their employees are interested in the business and they like to talk about it. I guarantee you will learn at least one thing, even if it’s how you will, or will not, treat your employees. steve
*Jeff, I e-mailed you to come back and see what was up. You did and took it like a real man. I praise you for that. Go buy a book called "The E-Myth" by a guy named Gerber. Study it. Don't make it your bible but his main thrust is right on. Take what fits and let the rest go. Remember, it takes more than good carpentry skills to run a profitable business. You already know that, but never forget it either OK?Feel free to e-mail me if you want any more good books to read. Educate yourself all you can. Whatever you end up doing it will pay off handsomely!
*Jeff,Well you can take it on the chin and comeback that is the first virtue perserverance. I think you can go to your boss and pick his brain. most successful people I know whether they be in finance or sports love to give advice and help people. try just asking him how he got started in the business and take it from there. I bet the conversation will carry it self to where you want to go.
*I liked what Ed said about the $120,000 sub job .."that's great unless it costs you $121,000 to finish.I asked a longtime, successful builder for advice once...he told me only one thing..."Don't lower your price for nobody."Well, I did'nt listen. There's been times when I lowered my original estimate due to this reason or that...And they have always come back to bite me in the ass...everytime. Had I stuck with what I originally intended to charge...everything would have turned out just fine.I've lost a good chunk of money several times by not heeding that advice...well by golly I heed it now!Davo
*Jeff.......(handshake).........>Why do you say you can't ask your wealthy boss what he didI wouldn't ask him anything, but I'd watch him and study his reactions to subs/clients/employees.Subs will make you or break you...treat them well and don't BS when they hand you a bill.Clients will keep you in business. Word of mouth/fixing F ups and good service......treat them well AFTER the final draw and they'll love you.Employees also make or break......especially secretaries who I've noticed run a lot of the businessLike I said....do it right and the money will come. Join the builder groups/associations.....it's a good old boys club and the big guys will keep you busy with the stuff they don't want to do......
*Jeff33,Looks like you have made quite the impression around here. There are so many things to be aware of, I don't think anybody can sum it up for you, and nobody knows it all. It is difficult to give you advice because I don't know you personally. I'll try to stick to the basics. To be a one man show you need to wear many hats, including: Marketer, Estimator, Project Manager, Superintendent and Office Manager to name the obvious. These areas are all difficult in their own right. In my experience I have found that generally superintendents think project managers have an easy job, and project manager think anyone can be a superintendent. I have done both and all I can say is until someone has experienced the different roles, it will be a mystery to them. Each and every role is important and difficult in its own way. The area I underestimated is marketing. I now know why good salespeople make alot of money. Its because they are worth it. You cant build a job that you don't have. At this point I have only two offerings of advise:Try to land a project management job. You may have to consider the commercial world for this. The experience will be invaluable to you. Ed posted a note about 121K earlier. He wasn't kidding. Making a contractual mistake could end you. When I was a commercial project manager I have seen my employer eat alot of mistakes. One time it was 17K. Thank god it was his mistake. Contracts are serious business.Be patient. Make descisions based on your experience and intelligence. Resist impulse descision making. Forget about big money. What your are looking for is smart money, safe money. There is plenty of time to lose your ass later, when you know it all.Now that I have invested this morning in your future. I hope you will stick around and keep all of us abreast of THE DEVELOPMENT OF JEFF33.
*Hmm yea yea hehehee hememm hehehYou said "abreast" mm hmm yea hehehehem-Beavis
*Reminds me of a letter I read in (ahem) Penthouse during my misspent youth. The writer inquired whether there was a school he could attend to learn to become a pimp. The response was that if he had to go to school to learn, then he probably lacked the necessary skills to be successful and suggested another area of endeavor.SHG
*shaking my head and chuckling!
*Yeah, that sounds about the same as when as a bright eyed teenager I asked an oldtimer if he'd teach me to build a set of stairs. He looked over his reading glasses at me, harrumpted, and said "if somebody has to teach you, you aren't ready to learn". Those words have rattled around in my head ever since. What works for one person doesn't necessarilly work for someone else. Each of us has to invent our own life, travel our own path.
*tell 'em mike!I'm goin' back to the kitchen and Cook's Talk. Less filling, tastes great!Dan-O
*(((((((((((((crazy legs!)))))))))))))...you da man!
*Like Jim, when I was a boy my father told me I would best learn life with experience. As a boy, I thought he was cazy.Now that I'm older, I know he was wise.He was younger than I am now when he told me that.Live and learn.Ed.
*Welcome back, Jeff. I'm glad you decided to stick around.
*Jim: "If somebody has to teach you, you aren't ready to learn"I really like that line.I kept thinking about that today, and that really makes a lot of sense. I wont ever forget that quote. Thanks
*I am still trying to get it. Can you help me?One of my favorites on this subject is..."When the student is ready, the teacher will appear"Thanks...
*I think basicaly, when the student is really ready, they will become their own teacher.
*very good grasshopper now snatch the pebble from my hand..:)
*It is also a big help to be smarter than the average 2x4!T
*Looks like you got your head on straight and came back. Good on you!In a nutshell, a Very Small Nutshell, a successful business has Something to Sell; a Pricing Structure that brings a Profit; a Person In Charge who Understands Business and is psychologically suited to be a businessman.So, you get the thing to sell by being good at what you do. You get a pricing structure by putting all you learned in business school to work. You find out if you are able to run a business by actually trying it. Now how big the business gets will largely depend on your ability to supervise and leverage the elements of Man, Money and Material. You won't know that until you try.Glad to see you rising to the challenge of your new adventure.