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I’m researching the idea of starting a business installing spray foam insulation. I have talked to several manufacturers who make very good claims about their products. I would like someone to posts opinions about which product they prefer and for what reasons.
Thanks,
Jack
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Replies
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Jack,
You can spray both. Not Icynene exactly, but close. Most polyurethane spray foam is called 2 pound foam because of it's density. It is impermeable to moisture and thus is a vapor barrier.
A pruduct called demilac (dem-i-lak) is 1/2 pound polyurethane foam (low density) that behaves similarly to Icynene, for example it is vapor permeable, no squeaks from hot water pipes, softer, etc.
My guess is that you could start spraying polyurethane without buying a franchise from a particular brand.
-Rob
*Rob,If you were building a new house what would you use,Icynene or polyurethane and why?
*I recommend Icynene over polyurethane for the simple reason that Icynene stays flexible, ie will move with structural elements as they change moisture content. 2nd reason is that Icynene is an open celled material which acts as a vapor barrier but will allow moisture to pass through to allow material to dry out on the occasion that it is needed. Wall assemblies need to be wet-able and dry-able. Contact me if you like. I don't sell the stuff, I just have it installed when I do a project. [email protected] Tadit
*Tadit,I'm currently weighing the pros and cons of bats vs icynene. I believe that for the Pacific NW, where it is pretty much 40 degrees in general, that insulation is not my most important concern. I hope to deal with the other end of the equation by putting in a ground-source heat pump. I'd like to know thought since I have a bid for icynene and not for bats if you can give me a guideline for the cost diiference between the two. Do you think icynene is worth the extra cost? Also, what is being described to me is a "ventless" house. Makes sense but I've been told I have to sell it to the County. It's what the icynene installer is recommending.
*Jeff: I had icynene installed in certain areas of my home (between floor joists in basement & all cathedral roof areas) but used batt insulation in other areas. The cost factor to use icynene throughout the whole house vs batt throughout was ($10,000 vs $3200), so I calculated my energy use/savings using either system and it wasnt worth it as far as payback period(to do the whole house). good luck..
*jroy,Thanks for the input. I'm starting to get some numbers, and what you found is in line with what I'm getting. Did you take into account in your numbers that the foam insulation provides the vapor barrier also, thus saving on the cost (mostly labor)of tyvek on the outside and visquin on the inside? i.e. does the $3200 represent just the FGB? ANd if so, what would the added vapor barrier costs be? Thanks.Jeff
*there is more to it than just the material cost... and the R value...both stop airflow that batts never would... and with metal studs what else are you going to use...email me and tell me what you have found about equipment costs and material suppilers... I've been told there is a huge mark-up in the material (supplier to you the installer)[email protected]
*You might ask the builders in your area (your potential customers) what they think. They're the ones who will be writing you the checks for the stuff.
*>Most polyurethane spray foam is called 2 pound foam because of it's density. Rob, do you know exactly how they determine if it's 2 or 2.5 or 3#? Is that the actual weight for a cubic foot or something? Always been curious and never asked...>spraying polyurethane without buying a franchiseThere are several manufacturers of the foam and separate equipment manufs, so I agree with this. Heck, even I was able to walk into one of the places and work directly with them at the plant. So their standards can't be especially high...
*What about environmental factors? Isn't isocyanurate--the poison that killed thousands in India--involved here?
I am building a home in St Paul, Minnesota for a customer. I have never used Icynene, nor have I seen it used in the suburb that I do work in. The house has both warm roofs and cold roofs and has 2x6 walls as well.
I am considering using poly vapor barrier with Icynene. My installer say"s it is a waste of money to do so. I don't care so much about the lost dollars. I am more concerned with the integrity of my house. What is best for my house, and from a liability standpoint, what is best for my company?
builderbob
usually best to start a new post for a new question, but I'll try to answer you anyway!
Icynene insulation is meant to breathe a little, and a plastic vapor barrier will interfere with that.
Vapor barriers are used when the insulation can't resist air movement (like fiberglass batts) and that air movement carries moisture into the wall cavity to condense and cause water issues.
Icynene shouldn't need any additional barrier, and using one is more likely to cause a problem, in my opinion, because it could interfere with the wall drying out someday if any moisture did migrate in there (although, no wall system will ever be ok if you have rain water running into a wall, in that case you're screwed no matter what).
Hope this helps!
Norm
Thanks for the help. We are required by the building code to use a vapor barrier in Minnesota. However it does not have to be poly. The inspectors questioned the use of a vapor barrier paint (such as the one available from Sherwin-Williams) that is labled as a vapor barrier and a perm rating of less than one.What do you think of using a paint vapor barrier?
Since I don't think you need one (nor does the manufacturer of the insulation you're looking at) then the paint would be a good way to appease the inspector and to get the wall system that you really want.
Using something that is semi-permiable, rather than a totally impermeable sheet of plastic poly, is what I'm saying.
:oD
Norm
I use the urethene kind. No icythene available here - wait! Is cornbond a urethene or an icythene??? I've used it too. The foam job is about three times the cost of batts. I think the corbond was slightly more expensive than the plain urea. It is worth while with difficult venting spots like cathedral ceilings, challenging locations, and vapor concernms present themselves.
Customers balk at the cost sometimes up front but never after they live in it for one year. They love the fact of no drafts and the sound absorbancy.
Some people ask questions about environmental things and the icy is supposed to be better that way.
Excellence is its own reward!